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  1. #1
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    Default Critzilla Finale

    Stop making OP multi-classed builds yo!
    Last edited by Tilomere; 09-26-2019 at 10:28 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    nnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    don't abandon us!

    i expected some helpless abuse as final build, double sad here

    will try it tho, when i play my main again (doing mules atm while alternating with PoE xD)
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    nnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    don't abandon us!

    i expected some helpless abuse as final build, double sad here

    will try it tho, when i play my main again (doing mules atm while alternating with PoE xD)
    Could always swap out Frosty or Purge for Pin, though you'd be harder-pressed to get Sense Weakness worked in...

  4. #4
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    stop making op multiclassed builds yo!
    Last edited by Tilomere; 09-26-2019 at 10:29 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member bls904c2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Critzilla Finale
    However, it also shows that No Holds Barred fusillade in inquisitor is better than artificer fusillade in that it doesn't have a charge up time before firing. So we can use inquisitor to make a better never ending fusillade build.
    are you sure there is no long wind up i have a inquisitor build no arti levels and from time to time on bosses i pull my GS gxbow for dr break and i have a wind up with the GXbow with no holds barred. there are times no holds barred will have same wind up as fusilade with other than light or heavy crossbows
    Last edited by bls904c2; 04-14-2019 at 06:47 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member Jetrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Mmm, updated this to drop dual crossbows and to swap to a single GXbow for 30% superior rate of fire, double [w], +1 crit range, +1 multiplier, and superior base damage per die and CC due to available raid weapon.

    I think damage just went up 50-80%. It's time to annihilate things. Hmm, who knew that the inquisitor tree was really a great crossbow tree.
    Did you do or see some testing for the 30% rate of fire number? Does it account for a base 2 missiles fired per shot instead of one and double shot chance on each? Does Tensors make a difference? The crit range and multi is much nicer on the gxb no doubt and the currently available weapons are better for gxb. Sharn should help crossbows some though. I am just wondering about that rof. I am not getting that much difference on rate of fire even without tensors up. But only running a 10arti/2rogue split currently.
    Last edited by Jetrule; 04-14-2019 at 04:56 AM.
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  7. #7

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    AP needs tweaking—you need 31 in Mech so not enough for Inquisitor capstone and TA fast movement/KtA. I am betting that at cap KtA is much better than the capstone

    I have a life-stealing GxBow for fun (not endgame), will let you know how it goes.

    Devs will post a patch in 5months 2 days nerfing this
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  8. #8
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    Seems like you're sacrificing the "endless" part of the Fusilade build in order to get higher peak damage.
    31 AP in Mech, 41 in Inqui.
    Leaves us with 8 AP to spend on KTA, and that's it. (maybe spend 6 on KTA if you have the AP tome, and 3 to get the extra speed from TA)

    This leaves us without a rather crucial part of the sustained DPS ability - we're missing a LOT of extra action boosts to make this +1 crit mult possible.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xgya View Post
    Seems like you're sacrificing the "endless" part of the Fusilade build in order to get higher peak damage.

    This leaves us without a rather crucial part of the sustained DPS ability - we're missing a LOT of extra action boosts to make this +1 crit mult possible.
    Its 1.3 multiplier, since we have Enders for critical damage. So I'm replacing sustained dps for a different form of sustained dps.

    Heavy Crossbow w/ bludgeoning quiver: 15-18x3, 19-20x5 x 1.3 (enders) => 15-18.3.9, 19-20.6.5 = 22.6 crit factor (increased amount of hits per 20 attacks) = a bit more than double damage due to crits

    10/6/4 Traditional Endless Fusillade 14-18x3, 19-20x5 x 1.3 (enders) => 14-18x3.9, 19-20x6.5 = 25.5 crit factor

    Critzilla Finale: 14-18x4, 19-20x6 x 1.3 (enders) => 14-18x5.2, 19-20x7.8 = 34.6 crit factor

    So Critzilla Finale will deal 19 base hits + 34.6 crit factor per 20 attacks, while Traditional Endless Fusillade will deal 19 base hits + 25.5 crit factor per 20 attacks. Dividing these out shows we are increasing base damage per hit by 20% over traditional endless fusillade (in same gear as above) and 29% over heavy crossbows. Plus when we run out of fusillade charges, we can just swap to dual crossbows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    AP needs tweaking—you need 31 in Mech so not enough for Inquisitor capstone and TA fast movement/KtA
    Devs will post a patch in 5months 2 days nerfing this
    You and I need to have a conversation about jinxing works of art. Tweaked levels and AP:

    18 rogue, 1 Barb, 1 Fighter Chaotic Good

    0 AP (11 racial) Dragonborn 3 AB
    35 Inq
    8 AP Harper Int to hit, KTA
    3 AP TA Fast Movement
    31 Mech
    3 Kensai 1 AB

    Dropping Inquisitor Capstone because law dice doesn't work with GXbows, and they already knock down, so it is only 10 ranged power for a bunch of AP to get to it, and we already have a ton of ranged power from LD.

    Master Inquisitive: +2 to all Ability Scores. +10 Ranged Power. While wielding a Light or Heavy (non-repeating) Crossbow, your Vorpal hits will knock down targets hit on a natural 20 + confirmation for 6 seconds without a saving throw, as a Great Crossbow. In addition, you gain +4 Damage dice with Law on your Side.

    I want move speed over a rune-arm imbue, expecting damage to be fine regardless. Swapped /2 arti for /1barb + 1 fighter

    ==================

    Hey can anyone tell me if improved traps from mechanic allows ooze flask to land its PRR debuff? Would bring the PRR debuffs to 53...

    =================

    Updated OP with a note that if we run out of fusillade (NHB), we can then swap to dual crossbows for base rate of fire.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 04-21-2019 at 12:40 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    18 rogue, 1 Barb, 1 Fighter Chaotic Good

    0 AP (11 racial) Dragonborn 3 AB
    35 Inq
    8 AP Harper Int to hit, KTA
    3 AP TA Fast Movement
    31 Mech
    3 Kensai 1 AB

    I want move speed over a rune-arm imbue, expecting damage to be fine regardless. Also, since we are already using Enders, for 30% more crit damage, the x4 of a great crossbow becomes x5.2, so that crit multiplier upgrade from a heavy to a great crossbow is worth 1.3 multiplier.
    Much better AP split now and without the Inqui capstone. Could argue whether the move speed is worth an item slot, but I'm siding with the move speed right now simply because of how lackluster the runearms are right now, at least for people that don't intend to fire them at things.

  11. #11
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    Testing shows rate of fire under fusillade/nhb is fixed regardless of crossbow.

    So, Fusillade = GXBow is clear. Auto attack under haste/damage boost = heavy crossbow? Let's look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    These are some numbers from my testing. All where tested on my lvl 30 toon in LD (21 BAB). Female Elf.
    Constrained to have 12% doublestrike on all tests (guild buffs). Single Run’s only.

    Tests:

    Greater xbow


    Damage boost:
    34 - 30% alacrity, blinding speed, rapid reload, rapid shot, tensers
    33 - 30% alacrity, blinding speed, rapid reload, rapid shot

    2 xbows:

    Damage boost:
    64 - 30% alacrity, blinding speed, rapid reload, rapid shot, tensers
    61 - 30% alacrity, blinding speed, rapid reload, rapid shot
    So the double rate of fire for heavy crossbow will overcome the increaesd crit profile and damage of a great crossbow when auto attacking. Auto attacking = Heavy Crossbow is also clear. Updated OP.

    ================

    I could see the quad hits of doubleshot + heavy crossbow working really well under FoTW with the +2 multiplier attack in inquisitor, but that is a lot of button pushing and lining up that perfect IPS. I'm going to leave that build for someone younger while I tab target the closest target with auto attack turned on.

    Also, thx to Pilgrim1 for testing. Could not have done this without it!
    Last edited by Tilomere; 04-23-2019 at 06:31 PM.

  12. #12
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    So please double check my results from using thoes numbers. There apears to be no functional diffrence between no holds barred and fusilade boost. I got different results from thoes to however. I only ran one test with each platform so there is potential room for errors in my testing.

    Now onto the build itself...
    T5 mechanic gives an enormous amount of flat damage to geater xbows. I think something like +24 additional damage. And more SA. Also great xbows, unlike 2 xbows, have a significant drop in DPS when not under fusilade. Thus the fewer action boosts you have the worse it becomes for longer sustained DPS. It is posible that this set-up does more burst damage then the classic build (i have yet to run the numbers). But its sustain drops off significantly. I would encourage you to run 2 xbows when fusilade is off timer if you want to stick with this build. Actually dropping 3 points into inquisitive to pick up dule xbows on the standard build is really good for sustained DPS.

    Mixing law on your side with SA dice will likely yeild the highest DPS. What you have going hear might be the strongest greater xbow + duel xbow build, but i dont thing it will be strongest as a pure greater xbow build.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    Actually dropping 3 points into inquisitive to pick up dule xbows on the standard build is really good for sustained DPS.

    Mixing law on your side with SA dice will likely yeild the highest DPS.
    Ehehe, but then you lose two kensai extra action boosts... and become closer to this build

    I don't believe in heroic proc damage die. Sneak die, poison, bleeds, AA imbues, law die, etc. I just toss them all out. I think it has to do with proc damage being balanced for usage by average players in average content, and wanting to deal above-average damage in above-average content so needing to combo to produce higher damage amounts. Legendary procs like Scion of Ethereal work in legendary because they were designed to, but heroic proc die are designed to work in heroics, and if they do something in epics, its a bonus, but I've never found it that relevant.

    Even in heroics, I'd rather have raw non-proc damage, even on what is traditionally a high proc class/build like this rogue staff build or on a bow.

    When you look at how damage is actually dealt on builds, the heroic proc damage builds always fall apart compared to non-proc builds. Like the calculations for that staffy build here, or how that non-proc bow (shuriken) build is vastly better at AoE clearing groups here or here.

    Heroic proc damage IMO is a way to prevent newer players from being totally useless, but I don't even bother calculating it or considering it under most cases. I always go for raw crit to the face. I know I'm at least partially wrong, but it makes build design easier.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 04-14-2019 at 05:06 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Hey everyone, I've been looking for a first life DPS toon to park at cap for raiding etc (I have a tank already), and I was recommended a 10/6/4 GXbow build. Do you think 18/x with GXbow NHB would be better? Many of your builds are listing RAP etc, so I couldn't grab the +3 ABoosts from Dragonborn.

    I have a +7 Dex tome available so at least that part will be easy. I have enough raid runes to get a Volley no problem, but figured I'd ask for everyone's advice given I'm not a shooty player (2H melee main). I also won't have more than one LGS gearpiece (can't afford the runes) so I'm not sure if that's a dealbreaker. Also probably won't have more than a few filigree slots open. Otherwise I can probably figure out gear tetris

    -----

    Also your current build in the original post still lists Runearm bonuses, probably from before you swapped to 1/1 Barb/Fighter.

    -----

    Race wise, my thoughts: Deep Gnome (Iconic, short, +Int); PDK (Iconic, starts w/Fighter); or SDK (Rogue first = any build). Which would y'all recommend?

    Thanks much in advance
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  15. #15
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Hey everyone, I've been looking for a first life DPS toon to park at cap for raiding etc (I have a tank already), and I was recommended a 10/6/4 GXbow build. Do you think 18/x with GXbow NHB would be better? Many of your builds are listing RAP etc, so I couldn't grab the +3 ABoosts from Dragonborn.
    The 10/6/4 build is a great build and will perform well on a first life toon. The build above, and others like it, are works in progress as we try to figure out the mechanics of the new tree. What is shaping up (at this point) is builds that use no holds barred + great xbow and combine with 2 normal xbows when using other action boosts.

    Your not going to go wrong with eather of these builds or any inquister build for that matter. Solid ranged damage is great for a toon to park at cap without lots of past lives powering it.

  16. #16
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    Updated OP for how NHB mechanically works with various crossbows, and to create very pretty critical hits. Now I just need Sharn to hit to jigsaw where to slot what.

    I have a feeling LD is the wrong ED, and I should be looking at FoTW.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 04-17-2019 at 03:07 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    The 10/6/4 build is a great build and will perform well on a first life toon.
    It's not impossible to build on a first life. However, you've got 18 of your 28 points pre-allocated to the three save stats for most builds. That leaves 10 points to split between Dexterity (for the Ranged feats) and Intelligence (as your primary stat). You'll also have to dump leveling points into Dexterity to hit 21 for Combat Archery. When you combine the tome losses, the starting stat losses and the leveling losses, you'll be 10+ points of intelligence behind the kind of 3+ life builds we've been discussing.

  18. #18
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    The 10/6/4 build is a great build and will perform well on a first life toon. The build above, and others like it, are works in progress as we try to figure out the mechanics of the new tree. What is shaping up (at this point) is builds that use no holds barred + great xbow and combine with 2 normal xbows when using other action boosts.

    You're not going to go wrong with either of these builds or any inquisitor build for that matter. Solid ranged damage is great for a toon to park at cap without lots of past lives powering it.
    Alright, I'll keep an eye on the thread and see what else comes out first. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    It's not impossible to build on a first life. However, you've got 18 of your 28 points pre-allocated to the three save stats for most builds. That leaves 10 points to split between Dexterity (for the Ranged feats) and Intelligence (as your primary stat). You'll also have to dump leveling points into Dexterity to hit 21 for Combat Archery. When you combine the tome losses, the starting stat losses and the leveling losses, you'll be 10+ points of intelligence behind the kind of 3+ life builds we've been discussing.
    I have a +7 Dex Tome and 32-point builds so that'll help but I don't know what you mean by the 18 pre-allocated points for save stats; if nothing else, Reflex should be covered by Dex/Int as the stats I want already? I can't see +3 Will being the make-or-break point?

    • 10 Str (carrying cap, esp if DG)
    • 14 Dex (+7 tome = 21)
    • 14 Con (HP)
    • 18 Int (DPS)
    • 8 Wis
    • 8 Cha

    2 leftover points for Wis/Cha (Spot/UMD respectively). Deep Gnome, SDK, or PDK all work fine there (SDK drop Dex to 12). Then I'm just short the value of an Int tome, and I can at least get a +2 from 1750 favor. I have another +7 tome, but can't remember what stat it's for. Might be able to trade it though

    Past that, I'll be missing the Doubleshot EPL, but I don't think there's any other huge losses? Stuff like Completionist and RAP, but things like Sharn gloves giving 3 Action Boosts will help mitigate that.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  19. #19
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    Updated OP to use ooze flask, the prr debuff seems to land most of the time. Doesn't seem to require improved traps.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 04-17-2019 at 07:37 PM.

  20. #20
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    It's not impossible to build on a first life. However, you've got 18 of your 28 points pre-allocated to the three save stats for most builds. That leaves 10 points to split between Dexterity (for the Ranged feats) and Intelligence (as your primary stat). You'll also have to dump leveling points into Dexterity to hit 21 for Combat Archery. When you combine the tome losses, the starting stat losses and the leveling losses, you'll be 10+ points of intelligence behind the kind of 3+ life builds we've been discussing.
    10 int is +5 attack and damage. Its not going to make or break a toon like this since there are no required dc to hit. a
    Also one could go drow and a +2 favor tome to hit the required benchmarks. I have even been thinking about the potential for going con based builds because surviving can be so hard in difficult content.

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