Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 28 of 28
  1. #21
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vish View Post
    As to dance, yes you get the 1.5 with longswords
    Just did a ranger monk build, see soulrazor in ranger
    Used longswords, had Wss, twisted dance, it worked
    Cool, thanks for the confirmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vish View Post
    Ya on second thought of the 15/5 split
    It may be better to go 14/6 monk fighter
    For the +1 multi in core 3 of fighter
    I didn't think that part
    Still get tier5 ftr which is pretty good
    I was running ranger monk, and the 12 core rng you get the multi, or the threat
    That's why I did my elf life as ranger,
    Plus I wanted to see longswords
    You can look at those prototype builds in
    Vishs book of the dead, in custom builds
    Since I may do 3 monk lives (assuming I like the first one well enough) I might try the elf ranger version. Right now leaning toward the Aasimar fighter.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  2. #22
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    With the Whirling Steel Strike feat you don't need One with the Blade, so you could take a different tier-5. E.g., Ninja's for Touch of Death or Henshin's for Void Strike.

    Not saying it's any better, just an alternative.
    I was just concerned about the wiki warning that says Dance of Flowers didn't work with Whirling Steel, so I thought One w/ Blade to be safe. But Vish says it does work, so this could be an option.



    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Sure: rogue / monk is the obvious combo for a heroic-only build so you can take Acrobatics (+15% attack speed).
    I did an acrobat build some time ago, have a lot of staves, including a pair of heroic Elemental Blooms. Might save this for a third option.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  3. #23
    Community Member janave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,619

    Default

    If Henshin was not nerfed so bad to cut back on Shintao, it would be the ideal Monk Past Life tree, qstaves have some nice aoe range, having little aoe on a leveling build is usually what makes it extra painful .

    12 Monk, 5 Rogue, 3 Wizard (EK)

    Leveling order is hard to determine, 1R, 1W, then probably Monks in 3/6/9/ and filling in with more Rogue and Wizard as you go.

  4. #24

    Default

    If splashing for a weaponized monk, you really want 6 fighter for the multiplier. Your advantage over wraps is the crit profile so good to dwell on that. That eliminates QP. 2 rogue gets traps xp and access to W&Scroll mastery (and faster sneaking if you stralth) but your AP will be really strained. You could also stack up ninja poison and venomed blades but most mobs will be dead quite fast

    12 monk for abundant step, master of forms, faster movement, 6 fighter then whatever

    The trouble with ninja is that tier5 kensai is so good. The crit profile with longswords & shortswords will be the same. It is the kama (ignoring shurikens) that gets double-boosted by ninjas. Before Knight’s Training, the Brush hook was the flavor darling and would get a 13-20/3 crit profile (the devs messed around with this, not sure where it is sitting now—same as swash anyway but you need either the capstone or 6 kensei for the extra multiplier to get to /4). they also bypass practically all DR. Now, named longswords (2 in heroics) will do the same-ish (I think they will be 14-20?) and have a better multi. The hooks can be for late heroics DR breaking and you might even have some fun with the Lost at Sea sets.

    I suspect that in heroics, the numbers are better to do ninja spy for the doublestrike but in endgame, so much ds is redundant to gear etc. and touch of death gets too weak.

    TBH whenever I have weaponized monks (even staffless) I do tier 5 henshin for SCEWL from 12-19 for the group heal—it is just so convenient/lifesaving and stuff dies fast anyway.

    Finallt, there is a flavor monk that is SWF with longswords and focuses on the unobstructable Void Strike. Void Strike kills everything except named mobs—even bypasses deathblock. PSWF will have it proc on a 19-20 and it is a hoot. In the meantime you then do LCEWS and neg level everything, really fun.

    Don’t forget to look into Falconer.
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer), Saelegion (parked level 4 soon)
    Quote Originally Posted by Annex View Post
    Hope extinguished leaves fading memories of better times.

  5. #25
    Community Member Mindos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Pocket Pita Plane
    Posts
    2,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    Other weapon options face the fact that other classes are simply better at them. Not only are their trees stronger, but they have class features to bolster them as well. Currently Monk has no class feature as it was deleted a few months back in the name of a 10% DPS nerf to unarmed at end game.

    Handwrap DPS itself has had a rollercoaster though:

    1. They were a bit behind originally, so they bolstered them a bit with Reinforced Fist items and TOD rings and were fine.
    2. Then the weapon multiplier system happened and handwraps fell near the bottom of weapon options.
    3. It was like this for years until U33 when they weaponized handwraps. However they overshot it a bit loading a ton of Melee Power in Henshin and then releasing extremely overpowered handwraps which shot Handwrap DPS to the top.
    4. Unfortunately a player that exploits to min-max his DPS posted some videos (which he did use exploits on adding extra Ws, extra attack/damage, and some TR shenanigans... all unlisted of course so most players don't realize it) on a character with every past life and high reaper points. This left a skew in people's minds that remains to this day that seems Devs latched onto as well.

    I still, and always will, think the Devs should have handled the last nerf differently and will hope, no matter how fruitlessly, that they roll back the nerf of a class feature that has existed since 1st edition, but I've digressed a fair bit.
    (I edited your post a bit to highlight/focus on some parts.)

    I agree with you. However, Monks had innate die step increases, but handwraps weren't "real" weapons. Now that handwraps have been rewritten and made actually weapons, the core feature of Monk, the die step increase, was removed. I don't think it was right either. Although I can see the argument for "why", I think the argument fails for one simple reason:

    1. Handwraps are a MONK weapon. Period. Sure, you can do this or that, blah blah. But it's a monk weapon. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
    (Since it's a monk weapon, much much more so than for example a bow is a ranger weapon if you think about it, only a rune-arm comes close to being a class only weapon like handwraps are):
    2. Then the monk should get die increases.
    3. Follow the above, logically the only handwraps that matter are named handwraps. No one cares about the random gen, at all. Since we're talking named items only, they can AND SHOULD be specially made with the Monks die step increase in mind.
    4. Since there's no chance of any other class using a named handwrap, let alone some trash random gen handwrap, and doing any kind of dps whatsoever, I think its obvious that Monk should be restored to its former style, and the handwraps should be altered not the class.

    I am NOT throwing stones here, and I mean no insult, (I love you all, I really do!) But in my humble opinion, this entire debacle started when the loot designer tragically misunderstood Monk/Handwrap defacto exclusivity, and as you stated "a class feature that has existed since 1st edition." Granted, the handwrap change from funky implementation to actually weapon occured at just about the same time, and confusion reigned all the about the lands and realms, but it was a mistake. And this mistake was compounded by the slow* drip, drip of further nerfs to Duality (which is, as I stated above, a NAMED handwrap- and the crux of the issue ) until the final dropped from space NerfHammer of the Gods altering of Monks innately.

    Sure, I could make a handwrap using pure ranger, or fighter, or whatever. All with zero monk levels. Could compare the DPS numbers, etc. But why? Handwraps are a monk weapon. It doesn't matter how the handwraps used to be coded/are coded now because it makes no difference to the non-Monk classes. So since its realisticly Monk only, and it's realisticly named handwraps only, the measured, zen like approach should be named handwrap releases that are not as quoted above "extremely overpowered."

    I think an underlying part of the problem is the homogenization of loot creation and weapon systems in DDO nowadays. The tools we use are there to help us, but all too often the new tools are self hand-cuffing and limiting- trapping us in a hard and fast smaller and smaller walled garden of lesser and lesser variety. There needs to be exceptions. Not all classes are the same, not all loot has to be the same. If one type needs 5 effects, or needs a 1W while all the others in a pack get 12w, then so be it. Casting "Rigid Systems" on a game that seeks to encapsulate imagination- which by definition is the unknown, the new, the wondrous- And it's kinda hard to have those qualities when everything is the old square pegs for square holes, round goes in round, four blocks for four spaces, but the colors must always match kind of "Rigid Thinking".

    Thanks for reading all this, and sorry for the rant. (I'm on pain pills from surgery)

    *I wrote slow because although the named handwrap needed nerfed, albeit in a much greater amount, the nerfs were actually minor- indicative of the misunderstanding of the die step relationship continuing. Honestly, this was a difficult time to measure and make loot changes. As stated in the OP above, there where indeed some exploits occuring, one of which made EVERY attack from a Monk a Critical Hit, skewing the numbers stratospherically.

    I don't think I could honestly have done a better job with all of this going on. It was a trying and hectic time. Both with the signature Ravenloft pack being released and maintained, and with trying to close loopholes and exploits. All the while trying the sisyphean task of balance and order to the game. My hope is that after all this time has passed, we can revisit and amend our mistakes, or at least have an honest full understanding of what occured and therefore an honest discussion of what we all wish to change or at least see moving forward. -Apoligies and thanks again.
    Last edited by Mindos; 05-03-2019 at 08:31 PM.


  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Personally I wish they kept the innate monk dice and just truly made handwraps a centered 1hb weapon with all the limitations to monks therein.

  7. #27
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    My place
    Posts
    975

    Default

    I do hope they revisit, but I do think it is important that they do not look at the weapon values in a vacuum. There are class features to consider - Rogue SA die, Ranger FE, Fighter specializations, etc - that are all factors, and I see Monk 2.5 handwrap scaling to be in that same vein. There were multiple other extra sources of Handwrap [W] (Improved Martial Arts, Monk PL, Reinforced Fist items) that could have been tapped to do the same tweak as well. My biggest frustration was that it was an edict with all discussion and concerns ignored. I think if they actually allowed for discussion, looked at other options, or took a deeper look at the outlier cases of extreme Monk DPS to see exactly why they were outlier cases (and closed those exploits instead), the Monk die nerf would have been avoided.

    While the Devs here are better about listening to the player base than most games, they don't have a history of rolling back changes like this. But if hundreds of posts when the nerf was happening didn't work, what will now?
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

  8. #28
    Community Member DRoark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    My biggest frustration was that it was an edict with all discussion and concerns ignored.
    They have a horrible habit of not listening to anyone, and pulling stunts like nerfing Monks into the floor..... 71.4% of heroic base damage, gone, to fix ONE level 29+ raid item issue. Total incompetance.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload