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  1. #1
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Default Ransack (loot lockout) Normal/Hard/Elite = Same Chest

    This is something that may have changed in a recent patch. I recall reading that normal, hard, & elite chests for the same quest had different ransack timers and counts. This is NOT true. They are the same. My test case was "Fresh Baked Dreams", which I'd been running daily on EE for the past week or so.

    After reading that different difficulty chests for the same quest had different ransack timers, I ran Hard and Normal and got the "you have ransacked this chest often" message for the normal. I don't think I've ever run the quest on Normal -- certainly not more than this one time in at least the past month. The only way for it to hit ransack on normal would be if it shared a count with the Hard and Elite.

    If you're brand new or considering DDO, this is certainly something you'd likely want to know. BTW, "ransack" in DDO means "no more loot for 8 days from this chest". Considering gear importance and that 8 tries is rarely enough to obtain the drop you want, it may make the difference between choosing a different game.

    For instance, I now have v.little to do with this character for a week. I have alts I like a lot and want to play, too, which works for me. If I were a one-character only style player, now is about when I'd punt the game. Hmm. That's a bit strong. I'd simply wander off to another MMO, but so far, I've never returned to an MMO after wandering. It's why I ended up here atm, too -- last one had nothing but endless solo grind for loooong time before maybe being able to group/raid and I needed a break.

    IMHO, I'd remove ransack completely. Gear is just the first step here: gear (solo), TR/raid (group), then difficulty (group for gear, but now it's the miniscule bonus reaper farm). While you technically can group to get basic gear, I rarely see it in non-raid or non-reaper LFMs. Most groups are geared folk XP'ing for TR, which makes ransack essentially a newbie lockout to grouping.

  2. #2
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    I've never heard of different difficulties having different ransacks. A quick look at the wiki history shows that it has said they are the same since at least 2010.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    I've never heard of different difficulties having different ransacks. A quick look at the wiki history shows that it has said they are the same since at least 2010.
    This is correct. Ransack cares about the physical chest, not the difficulty.
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  4. #4
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    Now, once you are in Ransack, there IS a difference between difficulties for the chest. In ransack, named items cannot drop and the chest is 1 level lower each time you open it until it becomes a level 0 chest, completely depleted of worth. As Elite is 2 levels higher than normal and hard is 1 level, this means that removing everything of value from it takes more runs on higher difficulties.

  5. #5
    Community Member CSQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    If you're brand new or considering DDO, this is certainly something you'd likely want to know. BTW, "ransack" in DDO means "no more loot for 8 days from this chest". Considering gear importance and that 8 tries is rarely enough to obtain the drop you want, it may make the difference between choosing a different game.
    Technically, the timer is seven days from when you first loot the chest, not eight days. I've met ransack a few times, and while it's frustrating, I don't think it's a deal breaker. At least for VIP players and some level ranges, there's usually plenty of content to run and still grab good gear. Granted, I'm used to either God-tier luck or endless droughts, so I might be a bit less sensitive given that I gave up on the concept of loot drops a long time ago. I did get a cursed blade of Jack Jibbers recently though, so I can see the light at the end of the tunnel for this drought. No comment on how many runs it took though.
    I primarily play Zunzyne Siegemaker, and am the guild master of Ares Macrotechnology on Ghallanda.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSQ View Post
    there's usually plenty of content to run and still grab good gear
    This is oddly both true and quite false. Making a workable gear set in this game is difficult. So, if you get a lucky drop that's not in your plan, actually using it typically means a cascading chain of complete coverage failures that end up meaning, "damn, if I use that, I'll have to farm 7 other items".

    The biggest problem is, of course, the RL set bonuses. They're too nice to give up and the only alternative is lots of raid gear, LGS, and LSL. That's a year (or more) for much less result. I really wonder how they're going to manage sharn gear. The only "easy" way to fit that in without more power creep is to do something like a ML21 set for TR'ing to fill the gap between RL's ML10 and ML29. Items that scale ML to character level, "multi-set", and "universal set" matching items are other potentials, but have their own weird issues for post-Sharn releases.

    The game badly needs real crafting: any stat on any item in any combination and value that exists in game, including set bonuses. It doesn't have to be easy to acquire the necessary mats, but if the devs want me to do more than stare at most items (however nice) and think "sorry, just can't make that fit" it has to be done. Used to like cannith, but every time I try to use it to plug a gap, it can't do the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    I've never heard of different difficulties having different ransacks. A quick look at the wiki history shows that it has said they are the same since at least 2010.
    I'd have to find the thread I was reading again, which might prove difficult. DDO data is like an archaeological dig. Could be that whatever I read simply lead me to believe it without stating that, too. It was on the forum here rather than wiki, though.

    Running the lower difficulties turned out fairly nice for the few ones I did -- got more out of those couple LH/LN runs than I did from a week of LE. Still need 3 more items, though. All from baked.

    From what I understand from the wiki, timer is from the first run, not the ransack point, too -- right? So, it should go off ransack tomorrow. Guess I'll find out then. Death to wolves!

    Quote Originally Posted by gwonbush View Post
    Now, once you are in Ransack, there IS a difference between difficulties for the chest. In ransack, named items cannot drop and the chest is 1 level lower each time you open it until it becomes a level 0 chest, completely depleted of worth. As Elite is 2 levels higher than normal and hard is 1 level, this means that removing everything of value from it takes more runs on higher difficulties.
    This confuses me. No named items means nothing of value in the chest. IIRC, the ransacked chest didn't even have a vistani token in it. Do you mean the level of the vendor trash? Wonder why they bothered coding such a pointless effect: trash has value via augment slots, not level -- or rare filigree if RL. Non-named chests usually aren't worth spending 4s opening and looting.

    BTW, while I think ransack is a ridiculous newbie lockout/barrier, it's not the worst loot-lock I've seen. That was in FFXIV where if someone else has looted a raid chest that week and that person was helping your raid, the entire raid had reduced loot. No way to tell if such a person is in group unless they spoke up (they usually did) or upon seeing less than you should -- iirc, it always had 2 items reduced to 1 with "experienced" help.

    That one never made sense to me. The rest of FFXIV has a lot of overt mechanisms that try hard to pair vets with newbies in order to make sure new folk get experienced help -- really amazingly nice culture there as a result. If they'd just reduced or locked out those already-looted-that-week peeps rather than the entire raid, I'd have understood.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    This is correct. Ransack cares about the physical chest, not the difficulty.
    This even applies between heroic and epic chests. If it is the same chest in the same location and you ransack it to get heroic loot then want epic loot you get to wait out the ransack timer.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    I've never heard of different difficulties having different ransacks. A quick look at the wiki history shows that it has said they are the same since at least 2010.
    The wiki is often flat out wrong. On another subject, say:

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Experience

    (Individual) Each of your re-entries confers a -20% penalty to you, to a maximum of -90% for the fifth. Re-entry penalties do not apply on Solo or Casual difficulty, although the Persistence Bonus can still be lost.

    Try it right now. I died and zerged

    https://ddowiki.com/page/The_Pit

    on Casual... many, many times. I've posted it here (no dev response or I'd edit the wiki myself). You get re-entry penalty (lowest was -80%) on CASUAL. If I knew how to post a picture here (following the instructions to attach a picture... still doesn't post it) I could show you right now. Casual... re-entry penalty.

    So unless, somehow, my account is the only one to do it... when people go "LOL, Check the wiki..." sure thing boss.
    Last edited by Dalris_Thane; 04-08-2019 at 09:02 PM.

  9. #9
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkmar View Post
    This even applies between heroic and epic chests. If it is the same chest in the same location and you ransack it to get heroic loot then want epic loot you get to wait out the ransack timer.
    That's very good to know. I'm not sure I've ever farmed heroic/epic chests on the same quest enough to hit that, but it's something I might do if some piece of gear fits a new plan. I tend to start with a plan for end-game then copy and tweak it for lower level -- probably because DDObuilder only has epic gear in it's DB.

  10. #10
    Community Member Tagros's Avatar
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    Default Same treasure chest, different quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    This is correct. Ransack cares about the physical chest, not the difficulty.
    Something I have wondered about for a long time is the rare case where you have the same treasure chest in the same physical location, but in different quests.

    I am specifically thinking about Splinterskull where you have a treasure chest behind a locked door in the large-ish room, the treasure chest by the hobgoblin clerics up the slope past the 2 traps, and the treasure chest down the scorpion pit along the little corridor. When you run splinterskull (which I do every TR - you can never have too many DW goggles) you can access these chests twice at L3, twice at L4, once at L5, once at L6 and once at L7 - and that's if you only do each quest once and done.

    Do these chests suffer from the ransack mechanism - if so, why, because they are separate quests at differing levels?
    I often wonder if I would be better off (loot quality wise) ignoring them until the L7 run, but then, Shinies!!!!, so I loot them every time...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    That's very good to know. I'm not sure I've ever farmed heroic/epic chests on the same quest enough to hit that, but it's something I might do if some piece of gear fits a new plan. I tend to start with a plan for end-game then copy and tweak it for lower level -- probably because DDObuilder only has epic gear in it's DB.
    Ya, figured it out farming ravenloft gear when it first came out. Ran like 5 or 6 runs on legendary, got the drop, wanted it on heroic, 2-3 runs later got ransack. After that I had to start planning better.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSQ View Post
    Technically, the timer is seven days from when you first loot the chest, not eight days. I've met ransack a few times, and while it's frustrating, I don't think it's a deal breaker. At least for VIP players and some level ranges, there's usually plenty of content to run and still grab good gear. Granted, I'm used to either God-tier luck or endless droughts, so I might be a bit less sensitive given that I gave up on the concept of loot drops a long time ago. I did get a cursed blade of Jack Jibbers recently though, so I can see the light at the end of the tunnel for this drought. No comment on how many runs it took though.
    Also, with the vast majority of loot being BtA these days, you can just loot-farm on a different character if you have to.

    Most named loot chests drop only a few items, so by the time you ransack there's a good chance you'll pull most of them at least once on elite (you get an item about a third of the time, so most ransack runs will net you ~3 items, most chests only drop four). It's been pretty rare for quite a while that I'll wind up having to farm on more than one character to get something I REALLY want NOW.

    Granted, there are exceptions, like ToEE, where the quest is long and chests drop OMG SO MANY different items.

  13. #13
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagros View Post
    Something I have wondered about for a long time is the rare case where you have the same treasure chest in the same physical location, but in different quests.
    That one I don't know. The other similar case is something like Crucible, where the loot varies by difficulty. Does that make the chest different or not? I suppose I could run a less-than-EE Crucible to find out (my main is on ransack for EE there), but it's a damn long solo run for a chest I specifically don't want even if it wasn't ransacked. My guess is the chest isn't different.

    And another edge case: Invitation to Dinner where the final end chest moves around. Does that make it a different chest? My guess is it shouldn't, but 'dunno what really happens there. Never ransacked that one.

  14. #14
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    The post you saw may have been referring to xp ransack, which does vary (a bit) by difficulty in that first time on any difficulty does not incur any ransack penalties that may have been gained on other difficulties.

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