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  1. #1
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    Default Dc locks vs death ward

    Is there anything that can be done other than burning them down with circle kiting or perching?

    Anything?

  2. #2
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    CC instead and burn them down instead?
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  3. #3
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    Yep. Evard's works on almost everything, Mass Hold is amazing and gives you helpless damage, charming can turn everything against that DW target, Ruins (if you loaded them) make quick work of the target as well. I rarely ever need to kite/perch a non-boss on a DC caster, though running and jump-casting to avoid ranged attacks means it is little different anyways.
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  4. #4
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    what kind of bs is this..

    Quote Originally Posted by Iaga View Post
    circle kiting or perching?
    quit being a nub.. DC warlock is a CC powerhouse.


    Its a warlock... there are lots of options.
    for champs and DW mobs..
    CC, level drain, minions, charms, form a group, etc...



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  5. #5
    Community Member Octarino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    quit being a nub.. DC warlock is a CC powerhouse.
    Well it depends on what level, but there is always something...

    Several CC spells (that I use at specific levels) that are overlooked by many warlocks: Otto's Resistible Dance, command, Silence Creature, command undead, Flesh to Stone
    Last edited by Octarino; 04-07-2019 at 05:56 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octarino View Post
    Well it depends on what level, but there is always something...

    Several CC spells (that I use at specific levels) that are overlooked by many warlocks: Otto's Resistible Dance, command, Silence Creature, command undead, Flesh to Stone
    Overlooked because they arent worth using. When compared to web, tentacles, mass hold, and Otto dancing sphere... All the cc you listed, is single target, where as all the cc I listed is AoE.

    Further more, there is single target holds, which surpasses all of your single target spells except for flesh to stone. Helpless damage is king
    Last edited by banjo174; 04-07-2019 at 11:12 AM.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Octarino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Overlooked because they arent worth using. When compared to web, tentacles, mass hold, and Otto dancing sphere... All the cc you listed, is single target, where as all the cc I listed is AoE.

    Further more, there is single target holds, which surpasses all of your single target spells except for flesh to stone. Helpless damage is king
    I'm not talking about level 20+, I'm talking about useful cc spells for champs and reapers that you can use before you get all your shiny spells. I hoped that was clear when I said it depends what level. I mean you're probably going to get hold monster at 14 (tentacles at 10), so those R7+ reapers in Gianthold walkups are going to be pretty tough if not CCed!

    At 20+ I normally use web, tentacles, mass hold monster, howl, flesh to stone, silence and command for reapers. Otto's dancing ball just doesn't last long enough in R10 for me to care and quickened howl can save my butt with those reapers who sneakily spawn right behind me, until I can properly position a mass hold. Flesh to stone is also wonderful for those pesky deathwarded champs (carry Adamantine scrolls if the melee complain about DR!).
    Last edited by Octarino; 04-07-2019 at 02:49 PM.

  8. #8
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    Options for dealing with death immune mobs
    - tentacles (your everyday cc - similar to web but less fragile - slows them and does damage and is highly effective cc)
    - hold (low will save)
    - charm (low will save) - let them kill each other - sometimes best option despite short timer on charms in epic reaper
    - flesh to stone (low fort save).
    - web (low reflex save / strength)
    - mass frog (works well on some death immune enemies without a wisdom investment, e.g., scarecrows, some constructs, many undead)

    Rather than running backwards try setting up a kill zone which is basically tentacles followed by possibly mass hold then as much aoe that you can manage (cone, wave, ES blasts, in epics - energy burst, divine wrath, consecration/crusade). Use flesh to stone or charm on any stragglers where you regular cc isn't working.

    Aside from maybe R8+ where things are different, the strength of warlock is setting up a kill zone and then doing as much aoe as possible. Running backwards/kiting and perching is only really a thing with some boss fights when soloing. I believe this means weighting defenses a bit higher than a sorc/wizard because you are potentially in harm's way more - but in general your best defense is perfectly timed cc and grouping up enemies in a kill zone.
    Last edited by slarden; 04-08-2019 at 06:48 AM.

  9. #9
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octarino View Post
    I'm not talking about level 20+, I'm talking about useful cc spells for champs and reapers that you can use before you get all your shiny spells. I hoped that was clear when I said it depends what level. I mean you're probably going to get hold monster at 14 (tentacles at 10), so those R7+ reapers in Gianthold walkups are going to be pretty tough if not CCed!

    At 20+ I normally use web, tentacles, mass hold monster, howl, flesh to stone, silence and command for reapers. Otto's dancing ball just doesn't last long enough in R10 for me to care and quickened howl can save my butt with those reapers who sneakily spawn right behind me, until I can properly position a mass hold. Flesh to stone is also wonderful for those pesky deathwarded champs (carry Adamantine scrolls if the melee complain about DR!).
    Someone needs to brush up on their warlock! Heres a link to help you my fellow player, ( https://ddowiki.com/page/Warlock ).
    most things level 1-10 are able to be CC'ed by web. Would you look at that too... Flesh to stone is a 4th level spell, same as Hold monster. Now correct me if I am wrong! But, more things are immune to flesh to stone, than they are Hold monster. *thinking* You also only get 2 level 4 spells, AKA, tentacles and Hold monster.

    I find it funny that you are talking about playing high skull content, and are prioritizing single target CC, instead of AoE CC. AKA, you are prioritizing Silence Creature, and Command Undead, Over Sleet Storm. I honestly expect everyone to have FoM in high skull content, just for Sleet storm. The spell is stupidly powerful.

    Further more, why are you wasting mana on single target CC, that doesn't give helpless damage?
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  10. #10
    Community Member Octarino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Further more, why are you wasting mana on single target CC, that doesn't give helpless damage?
    Guys, as I said in my first post, it depends what level. Likewise I said those are useful spells which are often overlooked, which by the replies I am seeing seems to be true. Having said that, I am enjoying this discussion, I'd just appreciate if people don't take what I say out of context.

    I use the most appropriate spells per level. Eg I will take hold monster then switch it out for flesh to stone when I get mass hold.
    Likewise, I don't take silence creature at low level - there are very specific situations where it is invaluable, the fact that other players don't seem to know this is revealing...

    I'd love to use web to CC reapers before I get hold monster, but well, it just doesn't work! However, I'm not the biggest fan of sleet storm simply because it doesn't actually immobilise mobs. I understand it can help to stack CC, but well, I'd rather stack immobilising CC that leads to little to no risk...

    Further more, why are you wasting mana on single target CC, that doesn't give helpless damage?
    Quite simply, the answer is I don't.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octarino View Post



    I'd love to use web to CC reapers before I get hold monster, but well, it just doesn't work! However, I'm not the biggest fan of sleet storm simply because it doesn't actually immobilise mobs. I understand it can help to stack CC, but well, I'd rather stack immobilising CC that leads to little to no risk...


    you can web reapers.... did it about 5 mins ago.....
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  12. #12
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that the different CC options both Single Target and AoE are one of the most common ways used to handle mobs that cannot be instant killed either single target or AoE.

    An other options available to warlocks would be charm type spells - either use that mob to take agro or other mobs to agro while you burn it down.

    Also there are two types of ways for mobs to be immune to instant death. Those that get this via innate coding and those with the used of the actual Deathward spell. For Deathward spell these can be dispelled or you can use Globe of Invulnerability and pull them in as Deathward is a level 4 spell. Globe of Invulnerability is just as effective via scroll as it is via spell points and is purchasable so have a stack to turn to in time of need can be valuable. It also has other niche cases that it can be used in to avoid issue.

    At really low levels Cause Fear (single)/Scare (AoE) on a Reaper(s) can be a good way to avoid it hitting you while you blast it running away.
    Last edited by Enoach; 04-08-2019 at 03:44 PM.

  13. #13
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octarino View Post
    Guys, as I said in my first post, it depends what level. Likewise I said those are useful spells which are often overlooked, which by the replies I am seeing seems to be true. Having said that, I am enjoying this discussion, I'd just appreciate if people don't take what I say out of context.

    I use the most appropriate spells per level. Eg I will take hold monster then switch it out for flesh to stone when I get mass hold.
    Likewise, I don't take silence creature at low level - there are very specific situations where it is invaluable, the fact that other players don't seem to know this is revealing...

    I'd love to use web to CC reapers before I get hold monster, but well, it just doesn't work! However, I'm not the biggest fan of sleet storm simply because it doesn't actually immobilise mobs. I understand it can help to stack CC, but well, I'd rather stack immobilising CC that leads to little to no risk...

    Often overlooked 'Command' available at level 1 through TS Enhancements and Fiend pact and works great on champs, reapers...
    Level 1 spells - 'Hypnotism', 'Otto's Resistible dance'
    Havent tried sleep.. but possibly another viable option..

    .maintain DC,s and things like heighten to keep it viable through endgame.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Octarino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Often overlooked 'Command' available at level 1 through TS Enhancements and Fiend pact and works great on champs, reapers...
    Level 1 spells - 'Hypnotism', 'Otto's Resistible dance'
    Havent tried sleep.. but possibly another viable option..

    .maintain DC,s and things like heighten to keep it viable through endgame.
    Agreed.

    Although I thought command was the default spell for that, rather than an overlooked spell.

    An additional command is another reason why Fiend is so great too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    For Deathward spell these can be dispelled or you can use Globe of Invulnerability and pull them in as Deathward is a level 4 spell. Globe of Invulnerability is just as effective via scroll as it is via spell points and is purchasable so have a stack to turn to in time of need can be valuable. It also has other niche cases that it can be used in to avoid issue.

    At really low levels Cause Fear (single)/Scare (AoE) on a Reaper(s) can be a good way to avoid it hitting you while you blast it running away.
    Some great tactics there too!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Flesh to stone is a 4th level spell, same as Hold monster. Now correct me if I am wrong! But, more things are immune to flesh to stone, than they are Hold monster. *thinking* You also only get 2 level 4 spells, AKA, tentacles and Hold monster.

    Monsters Flesh to Stone works on that are immune to Hold Monster:

    Fleshy Undead - Undead Beholders, Mummies, Vampires, Zombies, Wrights, Ghouls and Undead Rats etc.

    Vermin - Spiders and Scorpions.

    Bats - Fiendish Fire Bat and Fire Bat Detonator.

    Duergar.

    Mind Block Champions that often include Fey Touched, Aboreian, Cruel Soul, Mark of Law and always Pandemonium.


    I can't think of anything other than Reapers that are immune to Flesh to Stone thats not immune to Hold Monster.

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Monsters
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Mind_Block
    Last edited by HuneyMunster; 04-10-2019 at 10:52 AM.

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