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  1. #1
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Default Reaper Wakeup Call

    This has to stop... So many times, I join a reaper group, and they are doing one of the following...

    -Have the group posted for reaper, but fail to mention they are doing higher skulls

    -Have people in the group that are bravery bonus level in more than 1 skull runs, so they are taking a 50% penalty to reaper XP, but cranking up the skulls anyways

    -Fail to have healing amp, even in epics

    -Fail to have scroll mastery

    -Fail to have any means to off heal at all

    I have actually run into people with Paladin, Rogue, Ranger, Cleric, Sorcerer, Bard, Favored soul, Artificer, Druid, and warlock in their builds... But they don't off heal, some of them don't even try to heal themselves... Even meeting Pure cleric and favored souls that dont heal anyone else.

    Like serious guys... Come on... At least learn the first 2, if you are going to learn any of it.
    ~IAmTheGreySoldier~ [Want Global Chats? Vote here!]https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...t-global-chats
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  2. #2
    Barbarbarian Sam-u-r-eye's Avatar
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    I agree with some of this. We need easier social options.
    Without new players DDO will go the way of the dodo.
    r10 @ 30 stuff, Sorc Build Guide, Lagwipe Log, Ghallanda

  3. #3
    Community Member Fallout47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    This has to stop... So many times, I join a reaper group, and they are doing one of the following...

    -Have the group posted for reaper, but fail to mention they are doing higher skulls

    -Have people in the group that are bravery bonus level in more than 1 skull runs, so they are taking a 50% penalty to reaper XP, but cranking up the skulls anyways

    -Fail to have healing amp, even in epics

    -Fail to have scroll mastery

    -Fail to have any means to off heal at all

    I have actually run into people with Paladin, Rogue, Ranger, Cleric, Sorcerer, Bard, Favored soul, Artificer, Druid, and warlock in their builds... But they don't off heal, some of them don't even try to heal themselves... Even meeting Pure cleric and favored souls that dont heal anyone else.

    Like serious guys... Come on... At least learn the first 2, if you are going to learn any of it.
    Guilty on the first bullet point. We like to post 'Casual Reapers'
    HELTER SKELTER - GLAND

  4. #4
    Community Member CaptainPurge's Avatar
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    Convene the High Council.


  5. #5
    Community Member Niminae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    -Have people in the group that are bravery bonus level in more than 1 skull runs, so they are taking a 50% penalty to reaper XP, but cranking up the skulls anyways

    This should be easy to spot, since the level of the quest will be known and the level of the party members is also shown in the lfm. If there is no specific quest listed then yeah, you'll have to /tell the lead and ask some questions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Annex View Post
    Yngvarr Stormedge: Aye, laddie. Aye. That be a mighty fine pooop deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    sometimes you just want to light the players on fire, yanno?

  6. #6
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    People are just starting to realize that the single biggest challenge to reaper is having to cooperate with other humans.

    Thats the wake up call that happens after years of pushing the solo agenda, where groups = 2 or more people soloing in the same instance. The teamwork atrophy is still being overcome.
    Historically: If every melee nerf after each melee class revamp was reverted back to its pre-nerf version, which melee build(s) are OP in the current meta?

  7. #7
    Community Member Robbenklopper's Avatar
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    Me barbarian! Me no heal, me raging blows! Heal me! Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
    "It´s too late. Always has been - always will be. Too late"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by chai View Post
    people are just starting to realize that the single biggest challenge to reaper is having to cooperate with other humans.

    Thats the wake up call that happens after years of pushing the solo agenda, where groups = 2 or more people soloing in the same instance. The teamwork atrophy is still being overcome.
    lol +1

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    People are just starting to realize that the single biggest challenge to reaper is having to cooperate with other humans.

    Thats the wake up call that happens after years of pushing the solo agenda, where groups = 2 or more people soloing in the same instance. The teamwork atrophy is still being overcome.
    Yeah, I have seen groups where they posted for reaper, a warforged wizard. Think they can solo everything; went into the epic quest, got killed by a 900 points damage. My character did not know which path the warforged went, so my character took the usual route. After being swarmed, etc. He DC'd and never came back. What is the purpose of LFM if he is into soloing and not waiting for everyone else to at least communicate which path he is taking?

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  10. #10
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    -Have the group posted for reaper, but fail to mention they are doing higher skulls
    This is a limitation of the LFM. You can set it to "Reaper" but you cannot specify the 1 to 10 Skull directly, instead the comments are commonly used. Annotations such as R1 or R5 is used to give more information.

    However, after joining the group and before you enter the quest you can usually see the number of Skulls, or you can use the various communication methods to ask.

    As long as you drop group before you enter the quest if the difficulty level is not what you want to do then "No harm No foul"


    -Have people in the group that are bravery bonus level in more than 1 skull runs, so they are taking a 50% penalty to reaper XP, but cranking up the skulls anyways
    Yes, because some people are not prioritizing Reaper XP over the other benefits. But you can see the levels of the group members in the LFM panel and can make your own decision on if you want to join. One of the best aspects in DDO is that you do get to choose if you want to join a group or not.


    -Fail to have healing amp, even in epics
    Well, some don't prioritize healing amp for many reasons.
    • Some don't realize the benefits
    • Some have not yet collected the gear or gear layout to allow for it
    • Some don't benefit from healing no matter how much you through at them


    However, it is better to engage in a discussion about this benefit when you see a player struggling, not as a pre-emptive entitled rant.

    -Fail to have scroll mastery

    Interesting point is not all builds/players have access to scroll mastery. Some that do, don't understand its benefit in a game where there is a good sized population that still feels DPS is "king".

    This again is something better to discuss with a player when you see them struggling and not as a pre-emptive entitled rant.

    -Fail to have any means to off heal at all

    Not every build has innate access, some can get access to this later. However, I sometimes wonder if part of this issue is because of the "solo with hireling" mentality.
    I do agree that with all the options available in game, having some option for an emergency heal is possible and a team player would strive to have some option available to them.

    Now what I find humorous is when I watch three party members standing right next to each other each self healing with Wands/Scrolls/Spells/SLAs. Using about 4x's the resources each when each of them could have healed one of the other two for 1/4 the resources .

    Some people learn these lessons by observation, others require a good teacher when they are ready to learn, and others will continue to struggle and complain about how the game "sucks" because of this or that mechanic.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    Yeah, I have seen groups where they posted for reaper, a warforged wizard. Think they can solo everything; went into the epic quest, got killed by a 900 points damage. My character did not know which path the warforged went, so my character took the usual route. After being swarmed, etc. He DC'd and never came back. What is the purpose of LFM if he is into soloing and not waiting for everyone else to at least communicate which path he is taking?
    This is something I also see, a person begins the quest solo. Then proceeds to run the quest in a way someone who is solo would go - taking shortcuts that not everyone can take, sneak past fights that are in the path but don't necessarily need to be fought etc. And then not communicate that when a person joins.

    Personally when I start a quest solo with an LFM up, I do it in such a way that those that join later can catch up to me as quickly as possible. But not everyone seems to think that way, likely because they are still to engaged with the xp/min aspect of questing.

  12. #12
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    the best thing to do about this is put up reaper teaching lfms I suppose

    the problem with the average r1 pug is that the folks knowing what they doing are in a hurry and can't be bothered to lose 5mins for some tips along the way, so the newer reaper players benefit from rxp and loot but not neccessarily from the play experience. this holds all the more true since in low skulls more advanced players need not bother with careful play but can just bulldoze through relying on AOE clearing rather than demonstrating controlled CC based playstyle. and if CC is used the follow up nuke or AOE melee dps comes so quickly that a newer player just preoccupied with his/her own hotbars and movement might not even notice how tentacles or massholds popped up for like 1 sec before a dozen mobs go pooof into limbo ...


    I admit i never ever put up a teaching lfm myself lol. partially cause i dont feel 100% confident to drag 5 weaker than I through r1 @ lvl, partially cause i dont wanna dedicated a full play session to it. what I DO is when I see people actively seeking advice, take the 2-5mins it takes to give it.


    on the side of the newer players, if one wants to improve ones game knowledge the sources are all there. there are reaper tutorials on youtube, and there is all you need to know here on the forums. however the info is somewhat fragmented, and I *think* there is relatively little incentive from standing stone side to put this sorta info on different playstyle and preparation requirements out there. I say I 'think' cause I almost never do read chronicle or watch cordos streams. but from when I poke my head in there i cant remember right now seeing anything other than linking to a forum post or vid or blog entry by some PLAYER offering input on the topic.

    part of this *could* or maybe ideally *should* be guild responsibility. on closed guild runs there is no pug speed pressure and thats the place where newer players can be taught. same for static groups...


    also, in a way this is same old problem. back in the days of elite you'd have the same 'I dont get it' reaction to people not bothering bringing the bare minimum requirements of
    poison, curse, disease, csw, heroism, haste, restore pot and not bothering with UMD ...

    the only thing you can do individually is whenever you run into such issues take the time to point them out in a friendly and helpful manner and hope something sticks.


    as for such things messing with your mid to high skulls, there, prly only way is to host yourself and communicate a bit

    e.g.
    the other day I got a blind tell on my 18/2 fvs cleric at cap
    "are u a healer?"
    -> "mh, not rly, y?"
    "looking for heals for high skulls ravenloft and you are the only healer on atm"
    -> "define high"
    "7-10"
    -> sry no way im up to r5 and thats alrdy a stretch im a EE-r2 nuke build"
    "k np thx"

    5min laters they found a proper heal spec pure fvs up to the task and I got invited again for the last free spot and at that point would have shamelessly joined to be carried for rxp but by then guildy came on so declined...



    now, oc you cant ask about every little detail from pots n scrolls, over r-points to effective DC range to hamp to build effectiveness. and sometimes you might ask and people tell you they are ready but aren't rly as you find out later. but by and large some communication always helpful.



    In a perfect world, maybe, an additional information system could be coded which auto checks some things and then when a player asks to join my lfm I could mouse hover over him and it would show me stuff like

    *carries utility pots*
    *hamp value*
    *reaper points*
    *has leveled umd*
    *has leveled sentient to tier XY*
    *has runspeed xy*
    *displays the active tier5 enhancement tree so I know better what build that person is on*

    and then based on that info I could make an informed decission if I want that person on an r4+ run.

    this would prly not be worth the dev time though compared to the amount of problem solving it offers...

    also, you'd have to think rly rly carefully if you'd want such an enhanced information system cause it would lead to some players being excluded from lfm options due to not meeting requirements. now, you might say that is fine as that happening will incentivize that person to improve, but idk ...
    Last edited by Eryhn; 04-03-2019 at 10:51 AM.

  13. #13
    Community Member awar1234's Avatar
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    Default Bush’s says....

    The teacher will appear when the student is ready......



    Ps..
    Auto correct thinks Buddha is Bush.... weird ��
    Last edited by awar1234; 04-03-2019 at 11:00 AM.

  14. #14
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    -Have the group posted for reaper, but fail to mention they are doing higher skulls
    This is a limitation of the LFM. You can set it to "Reaper" but you cannot specify the 1 to 10 Skull directly, instead the comments are commonly used. Annotations such as R1 or R5 is used to give more information.

    However, after joining the group and before you enter the quest you can usually see the number of Skulls, or you can use the various communication methods to ask.

    As long as you drop group before you enter the quest if the difficulty level is not what you want to do then "No harm No foul"
    As you said, they could put the amount of skulls in words in their lfm, but there are many groups that wont do this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    -Have people in the group that are bravery bonus level in more than 1 skull runs, so they are taking a 50% penalty to reaper XP, but cranking up the skulls anyways
    Yes, because some people are not prioritizing Reaper XP over the other benefits. But you can see the levels of the group members in the LFM panel and can make your own decision on if you want to join. One of the best aspects in DDO is that you do get to choose if you want to join a group or not.
    I personally don't mind doing R1 with people at bravery bonus level, in fact... In epics, I will let people in the group that are 4 levels over base, as that is bravery bonus level in epics. I don't care about reaper xp at the moment, so I usually only do R1, as it gives the most character experience. But it ****es me off, when people are taking a reaper xp hit, and doing higher skulls... Like... I could solo R5s in heroics, and get way more reaper xp a lot faster.


    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    -Fail to have healing amp, even in epics
    Well, some don't prioritize healing amp for many reasons.
    • Some don't realize the benefits
    • Some have not yet collected the gear or gear layout to allow for it
    • Some don't benefit from healing no matter how much you through at them
    The purple dragon knight gauntlets at level 20 give you 60 healing amp, and are a VERY VERY easy item to acquire. Ship buffs give another 20, so EVERYONE, should have at least 80 healing amp in epics. Further more, I cant tell you how many fighters I run into, that aren't running liquid courage 24/7... Another 50 stacking healing amp, so a fighter...First life... Little to no gear... Could easily have 130 healing amp... I have even met humans that don't have ANY healing amp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    -Fail to have scroll mastery

    Interesting point is not all builds/players have access to scroll mastery. Some that do, don't understand its benefit in a game where there is a good sized population that still feels DPS is "king".

    This again is something better to discuss with a player when you see them struggling and not as a pre-emptive entitled rant.

    -Fail to have any means to off heal at all

    Not every build has innate access, some can get access to this later. However, I sometimes wonder if part of this issue is because of the "solo with hireling" mentality.
    I do agree that with all the options available in game, having some option for an emergency heal is possible and a team player would strive to have some option available to them.
    Every build can be adapted to provide wand and scroll mastery, taking a class that could benefit you in this regard, or being a race that could benefit you. There are now 2 races that provide wand and scroll mastery *Gnome & Tiefling*. Further more... People could take Favored soul or Cleric levels, this provides wand and scroll mastery, as well as divine might. Could also take a different class instead for the enhancement, doesnt matter.


    Quote Originally Posted by awar1234 View Post
    The teacher will appear when the student is ready......
    Lol, I don't think the student will ever be ready. The main reason I am raging on the forums is, I am tired of trying to point things like this out to players, just to have them scoff at me. *Shrugs* its one of the reasons that I mostly solo or two man these days.
    ~IAmTheGreySoldier~ [Want Global Chats? Vote here!]https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...t-global-chats
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  15. #15
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Lol, I don't think the student will ever be ready. The main reason I am raging on the forums is, I am tired of trying to point things like this out to players, just to have them scoff at me. *Shrugs* its one of the reasons that I mostly solo or two man these days.
    Make a guide then.

    Sam wrote a whole guide on how to pull packs in r10. Helping people is going to get you a lot farther than rage spamming the forums.

    Gd’day.
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  16. #16
    Intergalactic Space Crusader
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    Default Great Post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Make a guide then.

    Sam wrote a whole guide on how to pull packs in r10. Helping people is going to get you a lot farther than rage spamming the forums.

    Gd’day.
    +1

    My only addition would be to make a pitch for moar heal amp. I like to check the group with an admixture or mass heal spell. And the results can be disturbing at times.

    I like to use these on both new and old toons, https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Iron_Mitts

  17. #17
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Yeah, the last one is kind of infuriating. I've been in more than one situation on my pally where I'd be off-healing people and ending up dead because the cleric / fvs / bard standing next to me can't be bothered to throw a CSW every once in a while >___>
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  18. #18
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    As you said, they could put the amount of skulls in words in their lfm, but there are many groups that wont do this.




    I personally don't mind doing R1 with people at bravery bonus level, in fact... In epics, I will let people in the group that are 4 levels over base, as that is bravery bonus level in epics. I don't care about reaper xp at the moment, so I usually only do R1, as it gives the most character experience. But it ****es me off, when people are taking a reaper xp hit, and doing higher skulls... Like... I could solo R5s in heroics, and get way more reaper xp a lot faster.




    The purple dragon knight gauntlets at level 20 give you 60 healing amp, and are a VERY VERY easy item to acquire. Ship buffs give another 20, so EVERYONE, should have at least 80 healing amp in epics. Further more, I cant tell you how many fighters I run into, that aren't running liquid courage 24/7... Another 50 stacking healing amp, so a fighter...First life... Little to no gear... Could easily have 130 healing amp... I have even met humans that don't have ANY healing amp...



    Every build can be adapted to provide wand and scroll mastery, taking a class that could benefit you in this regard, or being a race that could benefit you. There are now 2 races that provide wand and scroll mastery *Gnome & Tiefling*. Further more... People could take Favored soul or Cleric levels, this provides wand and scroll mastery, as well as divine might. Could also take a different class instead for the enhancement, doesnt matter.




    Lol, I don't think the student will ever be ready. The main reason I am raging on the forums is, I am tired of trying to point things like this out to players, just to have them scoff at me. *Shrugs* its one of the reasons that I mostly solo or two man these days.
    Just to be clear it appears based on your responses that you would prefer people play your way. As you feel it is the only way people should play. There are many ways to play and be successful in DDO.

    Also, based on your responses you would likely be blown away by the idea that I successfully play a PM in "high" reaper.

    You do need to be careful trying to narrow aspects of how to play. There are many people that play DDO that have discovered there are many different paths to success, some with builds others "feel" suck because they have not taken the time to actually learn what those builds can do.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niminae View Post
    This should be easy to spot, since the level of the quest will be known and the level of the party members is also shown in the lfm. If there is no specific quest listed then yeah, you'll have to /tell the lead and ask some questions.
    The point is not that you can spot it... it's that it's foolish to do. If you are 2 levels over you are taking such a big multiplicative hit that running anything but r1 is a waste of time. You are choosing slower regular exp, for not rewarding rxp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eryhn View Post
    the best thing to do about this is put up reaper teaching lfms I suppose

    the problem with the average r1 pug is that the folks knowing what they doing are in a hurry and can't be bothered to lose 5mins for some tips along the way, so the newer reaper players benefit from rxp and loot but not neccessarily from the play experience.
    5 minutes is an entire quest and the time to run to the next one for someone zerging R1.
    Last edited by Cantor; 04-04-2019 at 08:01 AM.

  20. #20
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    The point is not that you can spot it... it's that it's foolish to do. If you are 2 levels over you are taking such a big multiplicative hit that running anything but r1 is a waste of time. You are choosing slower regular exp, for not rewarding rxp.
    the idea that it is "foolish to do" is actually subjective. What are the goals, not everyone is after Rxp. I know it is not a popular view but some people actually run Reaper for other reasons then Rxp. Some people don't play DDO to "rush" through quests.

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