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  1. #81


    Quote Originally Posted by Niminae View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with giving access to filigree slots/sets pre-epic, but the fact that early epics is in sore need of more itemization cannot be disputed.

    White Plume Mountain did a little to help this, but since then the concept of releases with multiple epic levels seems to have died. Lynnabel has said several times that she isn't going to touch the L20 Epic crafting items until she is done with the entire list of heroic items, so that potential source of early epic itemization is years away.

    But something needs be done for low epic level itemization, and sooner rather than later. Artifacts that could be worn at L20 would help. Top level gear is fine and dandy, but unless it is needed to defeat the content it is just unnecessary power creep. And people who don't sit at cap have very little use for items they will only wear for 1 level before they reincarnate.
    Not to derail but one can cannith craft a very good ML 20 gearset, throw in some Cannith Challenges gear and maybe some old S/S/S stuff for niche builds and you can cover epics with only a few swaps (mainly weapons) until level 29. Now with sentience you can really buff a crummy weapon and that fills the gap.

    Again Please make artifacts crummy and let their power be in augmentation not bloated stats
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    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer), Saelegion (parked at level 4!)

  2. #82
    Systems Designer
    Lynnabel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016


    Quote Originally Posted by Edwinge View Post
    and VoN
    Still not a lot in the grand scheme of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niminae View Post
    I'm really not sure what you're saying here. You're not going to update the L20 Epic crafting items? That seems to be the context, but it's really hard to tell when you quote half of a sentence and then refer to different things entirely.
    I remember distinctly saying that you shouldn't take me saying anything about the s/s/s stuff as me promising to revamp them. I believe that is generally what "don't quote me on this" means - either way, I've still not promised to do it before, and I'm not going to promise to do it now.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  3. #83
    Community Member
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    Apr 2013

    Default Artifacts could be key to enabling hybrid and interesting builds.

    I think the most important change to Minor Artifacts would be to for them to act as a limited Gem of Many Facets for Sharn sets.

    Pure hyper focused builds are already fine, but multi-purpose hybrid builds lag behind. If the hybrid builds could use multiple Sharn sets at the same time due to an artifact, this would enable the tanky-melee build, or hybrid caster-melee, or caster-ranged build to work as a hybrid.

    These artifacts could be like the dual filigree, and support pairs of Sharn sets. You could even have the "Gem of Many Facets" part of the item be unlocked by investment in hybrid trees, like old shavarath rings.

    Then you could have a tank + healing set artifact usable by bear/paladin/cleric, or a casting + melee set artifact usable by wolf/ek, and a healing + ranged set artifact used by AA ranger/Inq fvs , and a healing + casting set cleric artifact used by spellsingers/DD/AoV, and a healing + melee set warpriest/swashbuckler artifact, or a tanky + melee set barbarian or fighter artifact, or a melee + ranged artifact, for a DWS ranger.

    So forget all other changes for now, and take 2 sets at a time, and assign them to artifacts. What this will do is open up just a huge variety of build and play style support. Instead of having only light melee, heavy melee, ranged, caster, healer, tank 6 sets that really only suport trinity gameplay, this will open up going pure single focus or combinations of sets. So just put one combination on each artifact. Nerf the sets and other artifact stats a bit if it makes sense, maybe when both sets are active.

    Other changes are mostly people wanting a better fit between artifacts and sharn sets and their character build anyways. This will not only solve most of those requests, it will create a wave of more complex and interesting supported builds and satisfying game play.

    Gear shouldn't be determining and eliminating builds like it current is, since it eliminates player choice. Builds should be supported by gear, and to do that gear needs to support the hybrid nature of most D&D classes. Otherwise we are just going to end up with pure DC non-dps casters, pure non-dps healers, pure non-dps intimi-tanks, and a bunch of pure dps rogues and monks in the Sharn equivalent of the silent avenger sets, and all the hybrid classes like tanky-dps barb, druid, paladin, etc. will just continue to suck in high level gameplay because there isn't gear for them.

    I guess if sentience slots are the "unique thing" for artifacts, then consider test running this with select combinations on trinkets to follow.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 04-12-2019 at 12:39 PM.

  4. #84
    The Hatchery Dielzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006


    Stolen Signet of ir'Wynarn Ring Minor Artifact
    Minimum Level:29
    Maximum Filigree Slots: 3
    Charisma +22
    Exceptional Alluring Skills Bonus +11
    Quality Potency +41
    Light Absorption +31%

    Sigil of Regalport Necklace Minor Artifact
    Minimum Level:29
    Maximum Filigree Slots: 3
    Charisma +22
    Quality Spell Focus Mastery+2
    Spell Resistance+52
    Acid Absorption +53%

    These stats are not compelling for CHA-based casters.

    There's already a dearth of +2 QSFM items available in existing content.

    Suggest changing the QSFM to +3

    Dielz on the Cannith Server
    Alts: Dielzen, Veldruk, Faska, and numerous others

  5. #85
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2011

    Default Just my opinion.

    OK, don't get me wrong, I do apreciate your work, but I think you are missing what an artifact is, an artifact is supposed to be a unique item, often but not always powerful (Strange statement, I know), this items are powerfull but little diferentiates from "another" epic item, aside the fact that you can slot extra Filigree's in something that is not a weapon.

    As they are currently presented, and I know this is an early stage, this items are gonna be used until the new adventure pack of apropiated level is released, wich is totally missing the point of "Its an artifact you always want at least one equiped" as soon the new item reaches an enhancement bonus of +23 or slightly better stats. Don't belive me? check what happen to the Libram of silver magic or the Manual of stealthy pilfering, both are artifacts in D&D and so outdated that I haven't seen anyone for some time trying to obtain them.

    Also as pointed before, they run with a couple of problems, the most obvious is the fact that they will break set bonuses, reducing the overall desire to actually equip them.
    The second is their high minimum level to use them, I know that by the actual sistem they need to have those levels as for now they are the "ultimate" gear, making them enjoyable only 2 levels... but this is where artifacts break the status quo, imagine if for example a certain halfling with hairy feet (You know well of what and who I'm talking) did not turn invisible once certain ring "of the evil overlord" is put in his fingers... just because he is a commoner (Not even an adventurer) of level 1, what a grand history THAT would be...
    Now, im not saying "make them accesible from level 1 with all those abilities", but surely something can be done to adjust them to a more reasonable degree like a lvl 25, as there is a lack of items from lvl 20-25.
    The third, and this is probably just a rant, the names... please, this names: broken, stolen etc. They make me feel like they are the Ruined Signet Brooch; "It would be valuable if it weren't beaten, battered, cracked, covered in sludge, and missing its inset gems. Now it's a brooch that only a homeless thief could love".
    And in the cases where the name actually means something, it has nothing to do with where they come from, like the Diani ir'Wynarn bracers... so she is a blood regent, a queen and a diplomat expert in ettiquette, Inteligent and driven, with no power thanks to the theocracy of the Silver Flame ruling Thrane... and this is her Item:

    Intelligence +22
    Insightful Accuracy +17
    Insightful Deadly +8
    Sonic Absorption +53%

    ...Is she a Roman politician? those who prefer scheme to murder their rivals, I...didin't see it coming.
    I honestly thought her item should be Charisma, Alluring skills, Linguistics and Fire resistance, not the most facinating of course, but more fitting.

    And the Key of Rhukaan Draal, the goblinoid capital of Darguun, ruled by Lhesh Haruuc (A warlord), with the goblinoid clans who are known for their skill in battle, not for their artistry with crafts much less for their magic, and this is the Item:

    Intelligence +22
    Insightful Accuracy +17
    Wizardry +481
    Cold Absorption +53%

    Aside from accuracy, this is a wizard item. You get the idea of why I'm ranting about this, but to be clear, not only the names have nothing to do with what the items do, they are more like a "Herald Crest" (Or blue augment slots as that's the DDO equivalent) instead of artifacts.

    Now for the constructive part:

    A).- You can keep them high level and keep doing what you are planing, but please, create a new item slot for the artifact, similar to quivers, only artifacts go in that slot and so only one artifact is allowed, bringing the posibility of a much lower level artifacts too in the future, obviously if lets say you put some artifact at level 5, it wont have that many augment slots nor any Filigree, that way none of them will break any given set bonus and we don't have to make miracles juggling our equipment more than it is now. (I don't really like this idea, but is less hassle to do this than the next one)

    B).- Make the artifacts compatible with certain set bonus, Ravenloft, Slavers, Sharn, wich they will be the most used, this one probably requieres another NPC similar to the Purple Dragon Knights (Wich makes certain items into set bonus of Eveningstar), some commendations of valor, some items of the required set and treads of fate, etc, but the problem with this is the amount of sets present in the game and those that will come in the future updates, eventually this will become obsolete if it is not updated regulary. (Not the best solution by far, in my opinion)

    C).- This one is goin to be a long one and will sound harsh, but please rethink what an artifact is and when is apropiate to give it to players.
    I mean, you actually have something similar already in the form of some old cosmetic items, you equip them use them and have a bonus until you use another clickie, and as far as I know the game does not differentiate betwen cosmetics and regular items, and is goin to be that way for a while, but technically you have that already and it will be the most easy way to archive it, to put an example of what im saying:

    Eye of Gruumsh:
    Cosmetic Helm (If any cosmetic change it will be a black saphire in the left eye)
    Race required Half Orc (or Chaotic Aligment, to be more flexible), UMD: 0
    Clickie 1/rest = Permament buff (Until other artifact is used) "Eye of Gruumsh"
    Strength +6
    Charisma +6
    True seeing
    Weapons you weild are considered Elf Bane 6d10

    Str & Cha, will be an untiped (Stacking?) bonus or something that is not used frecuently, like alchemical, this is easily a level 29 item using standar rules for named Items (4 abilities, scaling ability scores as if they where insightfull and bane plus non-scaling true sight) but this is an artifact, not some named item, something like level 20 would be perfect with lets say 1 Filigree and maybe one (red?) augment slot, of course, if you use the clickie and remove it, you dont have acces to the Filigree nor any augment, but it opens the posibility as you grow in level to get a more powerfull artifact with abilities you dont want but more Filigree's or augments (Wich most are outdated anyways) or to equip more than one artifact as we have 2 weapon auras, armor, cloak and helm, if this is the case then its power can be reduced even further to acount for the number of Filigrees and making desirable to have more than one artifact for the current character, and not discard the ones that are not usefull for the current or next life.

    It also opens the posibility of artifacts of lower minimum level, as I can easily picture something like this:

    Talisman of Pure Good:
    Glamered weapon aura (Golden glow from the hand, Similar to the EK Spell sword elemental stance)
    Good Aligment Required UMD:0
    Destroy an enemy with evil aligment, no save, non-bosses only.

    Not sure if it will be a clickie with long cooldown (10 min?), if equiping the talisman grant a feat (As a SLA) or if the clickie grant the feat (thus preventing the use of other artifact clickie bonus), but this can be easily a lvl 18 artifact, no Filigree, and probably just one blue augment slot.

    Of course I'm just adjusting existing artifacts but this can be applied to anything you wish to create, lets say the not yet in existence;

    Spellbook of the Shadow:
    Glamered shield (You guess it, a dark book)
    Non good aligment UMD: 0
    On harmfull spellcast:
    7% to inflict a negative level
    3d8 Evil Damage
    1 stack of vulnerability
    1 stack of destructuon

    Two Filigree (or just one if multiple artifacts are allowed, but only one buff), no augment slots, level 25, this is similar to the shiradi ranged stance's, the lantern ring, and non-stacking weapon abilities, but IS NOT plain spell lore, mastery and power, wich will only bloat the power creep, yet I think this will be interesting for the rare Necro-Knight and his multiple auras.

    Well thats all I can think for now, aside that, please allow the artifacts eat other artifacts (but not sentient weapons eating artifacts), please give us something unusual and not some bloated stats that will be irrelevant in the next 3 updates, and of course don't lock all the artifacts behind a raid, sure the more powerfull are there, but not everyone of them, and if you can, please allow us to enjoy them more than 2 levels of gameplay.

    Thanks for your time reading this.

  6. #86
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014


    I'm assuming sentience procs, still don't stack?

  7. #87
    Community Member bloodnose13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009


    It seems to me that it would be much better if you brought back the random effect system for those as it was on some items in past.
    You find item and it can have any of those effects in any combination, otherwise those items seem like they are made with specific classes in mind to use them.

    i very much liked that system as it meant there may be a chance for a really good item to appear, look at the random non named items, they most often are borderline useless, but sometimes they can drop something really good and/or usefull.
    "If you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong."
    — Groucho Marx

  8. #88
    Community Member Niminae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015


    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Still not a lot [4 packs of heroic items which use the s/s/s system remaining to be updated] in the grand scheme of things.
    Not a lot? Sure, four isn't a very high number, but not a lot has a more than one context. Four packs could easily be well over a year or two years+ to get done, and that's a lot of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I remember distinctly saying that you shouldn't take me saying anything about the s/s/s stuff as me promising to revamp them. I believe that is generally what "don't quote me on this" means - either way, I've still not promised to do it before, and I'm not going to promise to do it now.
    I understand that you're not promising to update the epic s/s/s items. I'm saying that given the lack of decent itemization in the low epic range, and the lack of new content which has anything in the low epic range, that SSG should do this. And if you don't, then SSG should release a lot more packs like WPM which have the content spread across the epic level range. Either/or would address the issue. Doing neither is a fail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Annex View Post
    Yngvarr Stormedge: Aye, laddie. Aye. That be a mighty fine pooop deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    sometimes you just want to light the players on fire, yanno?

  9. #89
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by bloodnose13 View Post
    It seems to me that it would be much better if you brought back the random effect system for those as it was on some items in past.
    You find item and it can have any of those effects in any combination, otherwise those items seem like they are made with specific classes in mind to use them.

    i very much liked that system as it meant there may be a chance for a really good item to appear, look at the random non named items, they most often are borderline useless, but sometimes they can drop something really good and/or usefull.
    I agree that random stuff needs to be good. 99.99% is trash now, the .01% is ok. It should be 95% trash, 4% ok, .95% good, .05% amazing. (or whatever relative percentages) My point is none of it at all is worth using.

    For a short time before slavelords came out, you could get a +17 stat on a ML 30 item on a loot weekend with a jewel and a chest blesser and it was cool. During the shadowfell era, you could only get a +11 item on wondrous crafted from stormhorns in quest not from rewards. Those are the good times for random loot. Named items have 4 effects that are put together. Random has 2-3 random effects, they need to have good levels. Maybe the drop rates are just too tilted to low stats, it's exceedingly rare to see a mastercraft item with stats better than crafted. You are already unlikely to get a good pairing, the stats need to be a little more likely.
    Also: regarding the post-rangen update to pre-slavelords: Epic rangen needs better scaling since it was turned up to 17 immediately and since up to 22. That super rare 1/billion rangen should beat anything out there. Named items are easy to get, a good rangen is not and should have a higher ceiling.
    Last edited by Cantor; 04-12-2019 at 09:04 AM.

  10. #90

    Default This is still a first pass with second pass coming next week?

    I half wished that Minor Artifacts, would have been either an additional slot (as mentioned about) only accessed at level 28 (could make it lower for other Lesser Artifacts-augments only no Filigrees if before level 20) or it would have been closer to Sentient Weapons for non-weapons.

    Acquire a specific jewel (or artifact), attach it to a piece of level 20+ equipment, and feed named items to increase its power.

  11. #91
    Community Member Thar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006


    Why only one Con version and that it is in a slot that conflicts with the Melee set? can we get it in another slot that a melee can use?
    Member of "Guild of the Black Dragons" & "Swords of the Light" on Sarlona. Proud "Last" member of Caffeine - we aint stragicially savy.

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