Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 30 of 30
  1. #21
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    124

    Default

    What is the thinking between Adept/Master of forms (Wind Stance , +6/9 double strike) vs Improved/Greater 2-H fighting?

    Currently, I'm looking to do a 18/2 Rogue/monk, 1st 3 levels rogue to get dex to damage, then 2 monk, rest rogue.. feats :
    1) Power Attack
    3) 2H Fighting
    4) Precision
    5) Dodge
    6) Completionist
    9) Mobility
    12) IC:Bludgeon, Imp.Evasion
    15) Imp. 2H fighting, Opportunist
    18) Gtr. 2H fighting, Slippery Mind

    While the forms seems enticing, the melee speed won't stack with items, and I'm likely to have items that boost melee speed.. I'd basically be losing out on the Double Strike.

    I felt the +10 damage from Power attack would be huge in the lower levels. I didn't go with cleaves as the rogue enh. tree already has a couple cleave attacks.

    Sad, but it looks like the best staff even at level 18 is the L7 TOEE staff. Hopefully the paralyzing still sticks ok at those levels!

  2. #22
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,271

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aGarde View Post
    What is the thinking between Adept/Master of forms (Wind Stance , +6/9 double strike) vs Improved/Greater 2-H fighting?

    Currently, I'm looking to do a 18/2 Rogue/monk,
    I think you are quibbling over relatively irrelevant amounts of damage.

    I think you will be down a x2.25 damage multiplier due to lacking helpless on most mobs, down to a x1.25 multiplier on crits using highest durable available staves as you level instead of x1.7 multiplier with elemental bloom due to lacking stacked item defense, and down to x1.5 stat damage with dex instead of x2 stat damage from falconry with deadly instinct.

    The net result is that if you have 50 base damage, and a 24 stat modifier by end of heroics:

    Your dex build will multiply that 24 dex modifier by 1.5 to get 36 damage from dex, then add 50 base damage to get 86 base damage. Then it will multiply that by 1.25 for crit, and hit for 108 per hit by end of heroics (before melee power).

    Heroic Soundburst Staffy will multiply that 24 wisdom modifier by 2 to get 48 damage from wisdom, then add 50 base damage to get 98. Then it will multiply that by 1.7 for crit, then multiply it again on most mobs by 2.25 for helpless, and hit most mobs for 375 by end of heroics, plus enable another 40 sneak damage due to helpless, and end up hitting for around 415 per hit by end of heroics (before melee power).

    Wether or not 108 damage per hit by the end of heroics has more doublestrike or glancing blow damage is ... relatively irrelevant when you are already giving up 300 damage per hit (before melee power). The person in the group that doesn't give up 3/4ths of their damage like the pure sorc or warlock will end up killing most of the dungeon, and you will end up piking regardless.

    This is also why people say cleaves, or heroic staff builds period, aren't good. When most people pike (on the most commonly suggested/used dex builds), then AoE piking with cleaves don't matter. But if you are annihilating things, then AoE annihilating things with cleaves is good times. People say cleaves with handwraps are terrible too, but when handwraps annihilate on hit in a similiar build, handwrap cleaves annihilate as well. Staff cleaves are way better than handwrap cleaves. (Edit)
    Last edited by Tilomere; 04-10-2019 at 03:28 PM.

  3. #23
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I think you are quibbling over relatively irrelevant amounts of damage.

    I think you will be down a x2.25 damage multiplier due to lacking helpless on most mobs, down to a x1.25 multiplier on crits using highest durable available staves as you level instead of x1.7 multiplier with elemental bloom due to lacking stacked item defense, and down to x1.5 stat damage with dex instead of x2 stat damage from falconry with deadly instinct.

    The net result is that if you have 50 base damage, and a 24 stat modifier by end of heroics:

    Your dex build will multiply that 24 dex modifier by 1.5 to get 36 damage from dex, then add 50 base damage to get 86 base damage. Then it will multiply that by 1.25 for crit, and hit for 108 per hit by end of heroics (before melee power).

    Heroic Soundburst Staffy will multiply that 24 wisdom modifier by 2 to get 48 damage from wisdom, then add 50 base damage to get 98. Then it will multiply that by 1.7 for crit, then multiply it again on most mobs by 2.25 for helpless, and hit most mobs for 375 by end of heroics, plus enable another 40 sneak damage due to helpless, and end up hitting for around 415 per hit by end of heroics (before melee power).

    Wether or not 108 damage per hit by the end of heroics has more doublestrike or glancing blow damage is ... relatively irrelevant when you are already giving up 300 damage per hit (before melee power). The person in the group that doesn't give up 3/4ths of their damage like the pure sorc or warlock will end up killing most of the dungeon, and you will end up piking regardless.

    This is also why people say cleaves aren't good on staff builds. If you are piking, then AoE piking with cleaves don't matter. But if you are annihilating things, then AoE annihilating things with cleaves is good times. People say cleaves with handwraps are terrible too, but when handwraps annihilate on hit in a similiar build, handwrap cleaves annihilate as well. Staff cleaves are way better than handwrap cleaves.
    Does the 30% helpless damage from Acrobat stack with the 30% helpless damage from Falconry or any others?

    Brutality: +20% when using a two-handed weapon
    Bully: up to +15%
    No Mercy: up to +30%
    Sense Weakness: up to +30%

    Edit: I read through your build again Tilo and i see you have both No Mercyx3. Half-orc for another 20% helpless from Brutality?
    Last edited by Coffey; 04-10-2019 at 01:37 PM.

  4. #24
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,271

    Default

    Everything stacks except rogue+monk No Mercy.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 04-10-2019 at 03:16 PM.

  5. #25
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Everything stacks except rogue+monk No Mercy.
    Very cool build. Half-orc would be great for this build then.

  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    124

    Default

    Thanks for the responses.. why 5 cleric.. is the item defense worth it, or for the extra spell pen?

  7. #27
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,271

    Default

    yes.

  8. #28
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    124

    Default

    Howdy. I decided to try tilo's stun build, and it worked ok.. My character has all the necessary past lives to help make it work ( 3x sorc/fvs/wiz/cleric ) and when the sound burst stunned mobs, the damage was great. Stun, aoe attacks, everything is dead..

    However, if I couldn't stun mobs, it could struggle. Due to being melee based vs caster based, my healing (of other players) was pretty bad.

    The 2nd life was a 12/8 rogue/monk split, where I went 3 rogue, 2 monk, 9 more rogue, then rest monk. The damage isn't as high as the prior build when mobs were stunned, but higher when they aren't. Also, this build was far more survivable over all. When grouping, I could lead kill counts (when I bothered checking.. it's not a concern of mine, but I was interested for the build comparisons). If I wasn't leading the count, I was high up there so it was a decent dps build, but more of a single target vs aoe. Usually I get a single aoe trip and the rest of the party would obliterate the tripped mobs pretty quickly.

    Solo running, I liked the rogue / monk split better than the rogue/cleric. It seemed more survivable and fared better when I couldn't, or didn't, stun mobs. But, like I mentioned earlier, the rogue/cleric was a beast against anything sound burst could stun.

    My 3rd staff build is going to focus on monk over rogue. 3 rouge initially for the staff speed/dex to hit/damage (I may tweak the class leveling, we'll see) but then more monk to hit T5 in the monk tree for the void striking.. I want to see how that works vs the rogue T5. Will update when I finish that. I'm rather casual in my play and it takes me a bit to churn out a past life.

    Oh, the race I went with was Half-elf. why? because I'm doing racials, and needed that one.. no other reason really

  9. #29
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,271

    Default

    Ahh interesting. What difficulty level did you normally level in?

  10. #30
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    I didn't read everything, but funnily there's a Host God emphasising staffs : Aureon.
    Like in this : https://ddowiki.com/page/Follower_of_Aureon
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tapper this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this tale."
    English is not my first language - misinterpretations galore !

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload