Results 1 to 6 of 6
  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    346

    Default Just started playing a monk, have some questions

    (Human wis based monk with falconry)

    At level 2-4, I was trying out different ki attacks and finishing moves but the extra 1d6 damage and +1w on finishing moves didnt feel like they were worth the effort at all, especially on trash mobs. I keep hearing that they do so much more damage than basic attacks, but im just not seeing it. Having to slot in some form of spellpower increase for the fire finisher also makes it rather annoying to gear. When do they become worth the ki and extra hassle of setting up finishing moves and chaining different ki attacks? The path of light's 4d6 light damage is good when you get it I guess, but it doesnt seem to scale at all unlike ki attacks that scale as you get improved forms. Unless you need to buff light spellpower to make it scale?

    I was using fire stance for more ki before level 10, but at level 10 perfect pinnacle + wind stance gives such a huge damage increase that it seems practically mandatory. Do most monks use fire stance before level 10 or something else?

    After level 10, my damage rotation is usually fists of iron + whirlwind attack for trash mobs, occasionally using a stun for t3 champs/reapers, dismissal for extra planar and spamming jade strike, smite and bird attacks for bosses. Most mobs simply dont last long enough to bother trying to setup finishing moves at all, especially in a party. What do people usually use in heroics?

    Smite tainted creatures states that you get a damage bonus based on monk level, what is the formula for this? Is it +1 per monk level or something else?

    IIRC Reapers are lawful outsiders, but dismissing strike does not seem to work on them?

    I get very few opportunities to use stunning fist when leveling in heroics. Not sure if this is typical? Most stuff dies too fast or is immune to it (like undead or reapers). Cant even use it on mobs chasing a party member because the game just goes "lol no you are out of range" before making it go on cooldown. Looking at the shintao tree, I see that you get 2 stuns as it is and Kukan-Do has a 15s cooldown with a better DC. Is that not enough for endgame? You would need some kind of AOE CC or massive DPS if you are doing high skull reaper at cap anyway. Seems to me that single target stuns are just there to get whatever is left over or for the occasional orange named. 3 single target stuns just seem kind of overkill for orange names but not enough to deal with the typical 6+ mob encounter sizes.

    Scaling the DC of bird attacks seems quite hard as they use assassinate DC, which is mostly found on rogue gear. Not sure if you can craft enhancement bonuses to assassinate either...i know you can craft insightful assassinate on gloves, but the rate is much worse compared to regular tactical DC. They are useful in heroics at least, for easy 10d6 damage and helpless, but are they useful at cap?

    Do monks in general have much higher survivaiblity compared to regular melee classes like fighters or wolf druids? With the much higher AC, dodge and evasion, my monk is much harder to kill than my wolf druid was even though the latter had much better PRR/MRR. Not being hit at all is a huge advantage, at least in heroics, even with lower PRR...I usually need deathward for all the shadows in necro 2, but didnt need it at all on my monk as I rarely got hit. Is that why monk splashes seem to be more popular compared to fighter splashes?

    At some point I received a void - light - void finishing move in my feat list but I dont seem to have any void ki attacks at all. What counts as a void ki attack?

    Does fort bypass allow stunning fist or quivering palm to work on stuff like undead? Im not entirely sure, but I think I have seen stunning fist stun an undead before.

    How do monks usually bypass chaotic DR in heroics or at cap?

    Just to be sure, if I took the path of light, I cant do path of dark ki attacks or finishing moves right? Even if they are listed in my feat list?

    Are there any good named monk gloves for levels 10-20? Seems like the best option is something crafted?
    Last edited by Question2005; 04-01-2019 at 01:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    hell.
    Posts
    6,244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    (Human wis based monk with falconry)

    1.At level 2-4, I was trying out different ki attacks and finishing moves but the extra 1d6 damage and +1w on finishing moves didnt feel like they were worth the effort at all, especially on trash mobs. I keep hearing that they do so much more damage than basic attacks, but im just not seeing it. Having to slot in some form of spellpower increase for the fire finisher also makes it rather annoying to gear. When do they become worth the ki and extra hassle of setting up finishing moves and chaining different ki attacks? The path of light's 4d6 light damage is good when you get it I guess, but it doesnt seem to scale at all unlike ki attacks that scale as you get improved forms. Unless you need to buff light spellpower to make it scale?

    2.I was using fire stance for more ki before level 10, but at level 10 perfect pinnacle + wind stance gives such a huge damage increase that it seems practically mandatory. Do most monks use fire stance before level 10 or something else?

    3.After level 10, my damage rotation is usually fists of iron + whirlwind attack for trash mobs, occasionally using a stun for t3 champs/reapers, dismissal for extra planar and spamming jade strike, smite and bird attacks for bosses. Most mobs simply dont last long enough to bother trying to setup finishing moves at all, especially in a party. What do people usually use in heroics?

    4.Smite tainted creatures states that you get a damage bonus based on monk level, what is the formula for this? Is it +1 per monk level or something else?

    5.IIRC Reapers are lawful outsiders, but dismissing strike does not seem to work on them?

    6.I get very few opportunities to use stunning fist when leveling in heroics. Not sure if this is typical? Most stuff dies too fast or is immune to it (like undead or reapers). Cant even use it on mobs chasing a party member because the game just goes "lol no you are out of range" before making it go on cooldown. Looking at the shintao tree, I see that you get 2 stuns as it is and Kukan-Do has a 15s cooldown with a better DC. Is that not enough for endgame? You would need some kind of AOE CC or massive DPS if you are doing high skull reaper at cap anyway. Seems to me that single target stuns are just there to get whatever is left over or for the occasional orange named. 3 single target stuns just seem kind of overkill for orange names but not enough to deal with the typical 6+ mob encounter sizes.

    7.Scaling the DC of bird attacks seems quite hard as they use assassinate DC, which is mostly found on rogue gear. Not sure if you can craft enhancement bonuses to assassinate either...i know you can craft insightful assassinate on gloves, but the rate is much worse compared to regular tactical DC. They are useful in heroics at least, for easy 10d6 damage and helpless, but are they useful at cap?

    8. Do monks in general have much higher survivaiblity compared to regular melee classes like fighters or wolf druids? With the much higher AC, dodge and evasion, my monk is much harder to kill than my wolf druid was even though the latter had much better PRR/MRR. Not being hit at all is a huge advantage, at least in heroics, even with lower PRR...I usually need deathward for all the shadows in necro 2, but didnt need it at all on my monk as I rarely got hit. Is that why monk splashes seem to be more popular compared to fighter splashes?

    9. At some point I received a void - light - void finishing move in my feat list but I dont seem to have any void ki attacks at all. What counts as a void ki attack?

    10 Does fort bypass allow stunning fist or quivering palm to work on stuff like undead? Im not entirely sure, but I think I have seen stunning fist stun an undead before.

    11. How do monks usually bypass chaotic DR in heroics or at cap?

    12.Just to be sure, if I took the path of light, I cant do path of dark ki attacks or finishing moves right? Even if they are listed in my feat list?

    13. Are there any good named monk gloves for levels 10-20? Seems like the best option is something crafted?
    1.not worth it at that level

    2. I use wind stance til close to cap then switch to ocean around 16ish

    3. just hold down attack button as monk attack speed is fun. if things are living enough for it they ya go ahead with your rotation of iron

    4. 2x wis mod to hit(i think its +1 for each 2 but dont quote me on that have it stuck in my head but cant verify)

    5. nope they all have deathward

    6. i had the opposite experience here. i used it so much in heroics and tend to forget about it in epics. it is my first hit usually followed by whirlwind, and reapers can be stunned

    7. no clue. i took them just to recharge the wis kta saw a pure druid that was nuking casters with it...

    8. kinda.... you get ac bonus on level wis and dex with no dodge cap....so ya. levels off some in epics

    9.stuff from henshin i think t5 stuff

    10. nope, some undead are bugged though and can be stunned

    11. i dont know. it has never been a problem for me. i never noticed enough dr for it to matter

    12. you are right

    13. rl gloves are an option if you want mists set..... i like crafted better

    added numbers to respond if that helps
    main toons: hauteur(silly caster) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly paladin)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

  3. #3
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Too Stoned AZ
    Posts
    2,112

    Default

    Here's some thoughts from a grandmaster

    Stunning fist is your bread and butter
    Always lead on soft tgts with sf
    It creates double damage
    Ki attacks are worthless
    I wish this wasn't the case,
    But auto attack with high rof is best dps
    Use vorpal wraps until 13, then get scraps of enlightenment
    2.5w, and ic blunt, so you can take itwf and gtwf before ic blunt
    Dismissing strike is just for elementals, save it for those
    Jade strikes, save tomb for reapers or high value tgts like champs
    The other two are lucky strikes, but you can spam them if you got the ki
    When you hit 15, you get quivering palm
    So then you lead one kill with that, then stunning fist the second and dps
    Healing ki, ie fists of life only needed if there isn't a healer in the group
    One mention, the special ki attacks that cost 2 ap are worth it situationally
    I put fist of mountain into my dps rotation
    Only stance I run in is water
    You don't get hit is best defense
    Ok that's the simplified way to play
    Max dps, max defense, you solo r1 easy

    If you want, read my notes in theory crafting the celestial monk, in monk
    I have stats and reflections there
    Vishantii (the bird man)
    Kil (heroic and epic completionist)

    Sarlona, Heart of Wisdom

  4. #4
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Look up, way up, in space.
    Posts
    1,010

    Default

    Dont get too used to heroics, monks are 1 hit wonders in epic elites...

  5. #5
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Hidden in a secret hold
    Posts
    1,796

    Default

    read attacks description, sometimes u will find surprises lol

    as light monk, your healing fist is light and for dark... well, u have several options, for example t5 from ninja or henshin, so you can do a lith+dark+light or viceversa, however as u have seen... they're mostly a hassle for dps, but they have some nice and stacking bonus/buffs, like reducind sp cost, extra skills, immune to stun, etc (these are mostly light combos, dark ones use to reduce mobs stats, saves and such)


    also stun is a must, in heroics too because if you're playing elite then gather til red DA and then kill em all, if running reaper... the more stuns the better lol

    fort bypass is for crits only, so racial traits aren't affected (immune to stun, deathblock, whatever), if you have some alignment issues, crafting an aligned weapon is useful

    and for gloves... well, cove gloves are specially monk focused, but badly lol
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

  6. #6
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    My place
    Posts
    975

    Default

    Unfortunately not all replies here are complete or accurate in my opinion (though Hobgoblin did a pretty good quick job), so will weigh in:

    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    At level 2-4, I was trying out different ki attacks and finishing moves but the extra 1d6 damage and +1w on finishing moves didnt feel like they were worth the effort at all, especially on trash mobs. I keep hearing that they do so much more damage than basic attacks, but im just not seeing it. Having to slot in some form of spellpower increase for the fire finisher also makes it rather annoying to gear. When do they become worth the ki and extra hassle of setting up finishing moves and chaining different ki attacks? The path of light's 4d6 light damage is good when you get it I guess, but it doesnt seem to scale at all unlike ki attacks that scale as you get improved forms. Unless you need to buff light spellpower to make it scale?
    The elemental Ki Attacks are essentially FREE damage. They don't break your attack cycle, so using them is just flat increasing your DPS. So whether or not they scale does not matter. Though Earth moves have a damage add, and thus that portion scales with Melee Power and crits. Add in E > E > E finisher is +1[W] and +2 crit multiplier, and this is where you hear it is such an important part of your DPS. The ONLY reason you would not want to do a Ki Attack is Ki management. Before you get access to a +3 Enhanced Ki item, it is a serious concern. You can tax it without Elemental Ki attack cycles with just Stunning, light/dark combos, and especially Quivering Palm. So until you have that item, they really only help bosses. Unfortunately at the levels you listed, you don't have multiple of each element, making prepping finishers slow and clunky (which sadly L > L > L and D > D > D always will be).

    Absolutely every Monk should load either Fists of Iron > Earth 3 > Earth 2 > Earth Finisher (or you can use the universal on a single button at the cost of seeing cooldowns), or if they didn't take the FoI Ki Strike, E3 > E2 > E1. Laying out this combo quickly and as much as you can is an important DPS boost, and will be your bread and butter combo.

    As finishing moves have a 6s CD, you have room for other combos. I find swapping two combos as a good pattern. Important ones:

    - Fire 3 > Dark > Fire 2. This is the second best combo for DPS that is one of the reasons Dark Monk is superior DPS to Light monks.

    - Knock on the Sky > Air 3 > Air 2. This is the second combo that Light Monks should utilize. It is also double-dipping your defensive boost by lowering enemy damage with Knock and Enemy Attack with the finisher (which could be enough for the 5% rounding). You could fill in with a third air move if you don't take Knock, though this move becomes more important the higher reaper you go. Dark Monks that take Air may consider this as well if they take Knock.

    While Earth is the default combo, you may want to situationally spread in these other combos:

    - Water 3/Unbalancing > Dark > Water 2/3 *or* Iron/Earth 3 > Knock/Wind 3 > Fire 3. Monk is very good at CC, and Falconry only adds to this, but it is always good to have a fallback CC. Dark's Paralyze is superior, but both are long duration and work on reapers.

    - Utility Combos. Dark > Dark > Dark against high fort and tough self healing targets. Light > Light > Light when you need to throw a heal. Earth > Light > Earth for anti stuns. Etc. Utility Combos is where Light Monks specialize, though they come at DPS losses, so it is best to learn when to use them (and also not ignore them as they can save SP when buffing, prevent deaths against stunning bosses/soundbursts/umber hulks, allow that trapper to succeed, etc).

    Ultimately Elemental Ki Moves and Ki Strikes are EXTREMELY important. The Monk that just runs around with Stunning Fist is leaving DPS, CC, and other utilities on the table. I didn't say that the Visions of Precision was a "game changer" for Monks when they were added years ago because they look pretty.


    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    I was using fire stance for more ki before level 10, but at level 10 perfect pinnacle + wind stance gives such a huge damage increase that it seems practically mandatory. Do most monks use fire stance before level 10 or something else?
    I personally use Fire Stance through all of Heroics, and situationally in Epics until 26 when you can wear goggles. The extra Ki is what it is all about, and if you bring Haste pots/clickies or wear Alacrity/speed items, is not far behind on DPS. I use Wind really only at cap on bosses and lazily doing slayers while leveling. A quick breakdown of usage:

    - Earth: This is a defensive and aggro stance. This should only be used when you want to be the one holding aggro of a boss.

    - Water: This is a defensive and DC stance. At end game this will likely be your main stance against trash and when tanking bosses that you can hold aggro with outside of Earth as the dodge and saves is superior to the AC and PRR of Earth.

    - Fire: This is an offensive and Ki Building stance. It is also good when fighting a bunch of Eye monsters with Perfect Pinnacle equipped as blind procs instakill them.

    - Wind: Purely an offensive stance. When you don't need the utility of the other stances, you should roll in this one.

    This is an area they did well on the U33 Monk pass. All stances have a purpose and a place, and the days of Earth being the end-all-be-all are over. Sadly there are still some Monks out there that haven't learned that, and are messing up aggro of raid bosses...


    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    After level 10, my damage rotation is usually fists of iron + whirlwind attack for trash mobs, occasionally using a stun for t3 champs/reapers, dismissal for extra planar and spamming jade strike, smite and bird attacks for bosses. Most mobs simply dont last long enough to bother trying to setup finishing moves at all, especially in a party. What do people usually use in heroics?
    The key for finishing moves is stacking up different Elemental and Ki Strikes so you can pop a finisher in a second or two. At early heroics you generally don't have the moves yet, though content is also so easy it is kinda whatever anyways. Only Dark, Light, and Void pure finishers are crippling slow due to being locked behind a single move option. This means they should be saved for when the situation demands rather than a default rotation. In Heroics, you won't really be doing finishing moves on trash unless you're a dark Monk as Stunning Fist, Quivering Palm, Kukan-Do, and Jade strikes are enough (at least for me) to keep me Ki drained even in Fire Stance and a +1 Enhanced Ki item. It is on bosses or when you have extra Ki that you should start comboing like I discussed above. Or another way to look at it, if you have a full Ki bar, you should be comboing with every spare second between your CCs/utility. If it is a struggle, CC/utility takes precedence unless someone else is already covering it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Smite tainted creatures states that you get a damage bonus based on monk level, what is the formula for this? Is it +1 per monk level or something else?
    It is indeed 1 damage per Monk Level, for up to 20 for a pure Monk at 20+. Add in the double WIS modifier to attack, which can be +80-100 attack at end game values, and this should be part of your DPS rotations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    IIRC Reapers are lawful outsiders, but dismissing strike does not seem to work on them?
    Dismissing Strike is for Extraplanar, so it would not work on any native Outsiders. I believe they may be considered native to Reaper difficulties, though doesn't really matter as ALL reapers have deathblock, and thus are immune to instakills anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    I get very few opportunities to use stunning fist when leveling in heroics. Not sure if this is typical? Most stuff dies too fast or is immune to it (like undead or reapers). Cant even use it on mobs chasing a party member because the game just goes "lol no you are out of range" before making it go on cooldown. Looking at the shintao tree, I see that you get 2 stuns as it is and Kukan-Do has a 15s cooldown with a better DC. Is that not enough for endgame? You would need some kind of AOE CC or massive DPS if you are doing high skull reaper at cap anyway. Seems to me that single target stuns are just there to get whatever is left over or for the occasional orange named. 3 single target stuns just seem kind of overkill for orange names but not enough to deal with the typical 6+ mob encounter sizes.
    Kukan-Do is not enough for end game. It has a clunky full second cast, and where Stunning Fist can lock down a target, Kukan-Do's cooldown is too long. I use it exclusively for Reapers or chasing down a target that I'm not near to. Stunning Fist I find myself using almost always on cooldown on trash. You do run faster than most trash, so rather than trying to stun from behind which risks a desync miss, try to get in front of it.

    So while it is true that the lack of AOE CCs means you still need a caster in high reapers, the ability to tag anything the casters miss is extremely useful. In some cases you will not need anything more than stunning fist and kukan/jades for Reapers, and in others you'll have yourself wishing you had more than the half dozen you can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Scaling the DC of bird attacks seems quite hard as they use assassinate DC, which is mostly found on rogue gear. Not sure if you can craft enhancement bonuses to assassinate either...i know you can craft insightful assassinate on gloves, but the rate is much worse compared to regular tactical DC. They are useful in heroics at least, for easy 10d6 damage and helpless, but are they useful at cap?
    Yes, they are indeed useful. You can use them at range, so you can do things like blind a Reaper if Kukan-Do and Jade is on cooldown. Unbalancing Strike > Diving Attack will take a target out of the fight for the entire encounter and isn't a tough DC. Coordinated Strike can blind and expose entire groups. At end game you can have DCs in the 90s before even wearing gear. Don't forget that you can get +3 in the tree itself, +6 with Stealthy, and +4 with Astral if you are looking for utility over DPS. 10 + 30 character + 45 (100 WIS) + 3 + 6 = 94. 98 if you run Astral. Any gear would push you into triple digits. These are end-game viable DCs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Do monks in general have much higher survivaiblity compared to regular melee classes like fighters or wolf druids? With the much higher AC, dodge and evasion, my monk is much harder to kill than my wolf druid was even though the latter had much better PRR/MRR. Not being hit at all is a huge advantage, at least in heroics, even with lower PRR...I usually need deathward for all the shadows in necro 2, but didnt need it at all on my monk as I rarely got hit. Is that why monk splashes seem to be more popular compared to fighter splashes?
    There have been a lot of dodge clickies added to trees, gear has loaded on a lot of PRR and MRR and dodge, and HP is defined far more by Reaper points and gear than by class. Monk splashes are currently popular because Silent Avenger set is by far the best DPS option, so if you're giving up your PRR and MRR from armors, you might as well snag Evasion, Feats, and some AC and stances from Monk. Sharn is expected to change that a fair bit. There are situations where evasion is better, situations where MRR is better (and those situations will easily splatter a Monk). PRR always works while dodge is RNG (unless you can reach 100%). Ultimately by end game, all the light/unarmored classes are about the same. Monk has the advantage of some early game dodge and WIS to AC, making them more survivable in heroics.


    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    At some point I received a void - light - void finishing move in my feat list but I dont seem to have any void ki attacks at all. What counts as a void ki attack?
    Your feat list shows all finishers whether you can use them or not. Void Ki attacks used to be available to all, and this is an area I begged them to change during the Monk pass within the Henshin tree. Unfortunately this did not happen... so if you did not take T5 henshin, you cannot do any Void combos. I do miss the old days when Void had multiple moves like Elemental attacks do...


    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Does fort bypass allow stunning fist or quivering palm to work on stuff like undead? Im not entirely sure, but I think I have seen stunning fist stun an undead before.
    Fortification has nothing to do with stunning in DDO, and is rather a separate coding. Any undead that you can Stunning Fist or QP is an exception to the rule rather than any standard you can achieve.


    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    How do monks usually bypass chaotic DR in heroics or at cap?
    You can make LGS clickies, have a weapon swap that has chaotic bypass or a chaotic bypass augment, or just not worry about it. I'd say go for the LGS clicky, but that is a fair bit of work.


    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Just to be sure, if I took the path of light, I cant do path of dark ki attacks or finishing moves right? Even if they are listed in my feat list?
    Same as the Void finishers. They list them even though you can't do them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Are there any good named monk gloves for levels 10-20? Seems like the best option is something crafted?
    I use RL gear 10-18, but I'm also lazy when it comes to heroic gear. Gloves are a powerful crafting slot giving access to Doublestrike, Heal Amp, tactics, accuracy, armor piercing, ins DEX, alacrity, assassinate, and so on. Crafted gloves were my end game item for years until Ravenloft came out, and even then will server you well 1-29.
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload