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  1. #1
    Community Member Fenris7's Avatar
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    Default Advice on Paladin

    Hello everyone,

    I'm a casual returning player and I would like to have some assistance on a paladin build.

    Everytime I return ddo I feel overwhelmed by the amount of info there is and I really feel lost, but at the same time I like to understand my chars and to have some personal touch on them so I kinda struggle on creating the char I want.

    This time I had a knight with sword and shield on mind, a good tank who can take a beating and maybe some dps(with melee or with magic maybe, still deciding). For that I decided to roll a paladin, I read that they are not in a good position right now but I just want to have some chill and fun so is ok for me.

    Soo the first question I have is about multiclassing, which options do I have that make sense? Is a paladin/cleric or a paladin/favored soul viable? Can I get something like a magic swordsman with wizard multiclassing?

    Thank you for your attention


    Off topic...Is the shield bash paladin a thing? If so, do you always have to attack with the shield bash animation?

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    S&B paladin and fighter use the Vanguard tree. For DPS it's usually best to stay pure for the cores, as the level 18 & 20 Enhancements add +10% attack speed (+5% each) for +20% total. We have several threads for Vanguard builds but here are two examples.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-New-Players)
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470842-Vanguard-Paladin-for-new-players

    Recently SSG added the Knight's Training feat which improves the critical threat range of several weapons; in particular, longswords, battleaxes, and (in epics) warhammers are on par with khopeshes with this feat. I posted a KT-based Vanguard build here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6191860

    Heavily-multiclassed S&B builds are usually sacrificing DPS for extra tankiness. E.g., the paladin 15 / fighter 4 / wizard (or sorcerer) 1 combo is taking advantage of the AC bonuses in the Stalwart Defender and Eldritch Knight trees which will stack with paladin's AC.

    Paladin is a fairly backloaded melee class - largely because you can slot Holy Sword and Zeal until level 15 - and doesn't MC as well as other classes, IMO. Eldritch Knight just got buffed so if you wanted a melee wizard, you're probably better off sticking with pure.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...e-Bladesingers!
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...trimtom-Review
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  3. #3
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris7 View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I'm a casual returning player and I would like to have some assistance on a paladin build.

    Everytime I return ddo I feel overwhelmed by the amount of info there is and I really feel lost, but at the same time I like to understand my chars and to have some personal touch on them so I kinda struggle on creating the char I want.

    This time I had a knight with sword and shield on mind, a good tank who can take a beating and maybe some dps(with melee or with magic maybe, still deciding). For that I decided to roll a paladin, I read that they are not in a good position right now but I just want to have some chill and fun so is ok for me.

    Soo the first question I have is about multiclassing, which options do I have that make sense? Is a paladin/cleric or a paladin/favored soul viable? Can I get something like a magic swordsman with wizard multiclassing?

    Thank you for your attention


    Off topic...Is the shield bash paladin a thing? If so, do you always have to attack with the shield bash animation?
    What difficulty are you planning on playing at? That will help with suggestions on how to best build your character. As you said you are casual, my comments will be based on that...

    A sword and board Paladin build can work on easier difficulties, so it’s fine to go that route if that is the case. I recommend the Vanguard build that Unbongwah posted in the other recent thread in the Paladin sub forum That’s about as good as you’re going to get. As for multi-classing, if you really want to make best use of using a shield then you want to use the Vanguard tree as your primary tree. The issue is that the capstone is good enough that you want to go pure. I have looked at various multi-class options and if you want to go S&B then this is the best way to go.
    The best part of the 10th Anniversary of DDO...the description on the Oatmeal Raisin Kookie,
    "From a distance you thought this was a chocolate chip kookie. Now you're sad."

  4. #4
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    LOL...looks like our posts crossed, Unbongwah. To the OP, what he said.
    The best part of the 10th Anniversary of DDO...the description on the Oatmeal Raisin Kookie,
    "From a distance you thought this was a chocolate chip kookie. Now you're sad."

  5. #5
    Community Member Fenris7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    S&B paladin and fighter use the Vanguard tree. For DPS it's usually best to stay pure for the cores, as the level 18 & 20 Enhancements add +10% attack speed (+5% each) for +20% total. We have several threads for Vanguard builds but here are two examples.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-New-Players)
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470842-Vanguard-Paladin-for-new-players

    Recently SSG added the Knight's Training feat which improves the critical threat range of several weapons; in particular, longswords, battleaxes, and (in epics) warhammers are on par with khopeshes with this feat. I posted a KT-based Vanguard build here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6191860

    Heavily-multiclassed S&B builds are usually sacrificing DPS for extra tankiness. E.g., the paladin 15 / fighter 4 / wizard (or sorcerer) 1 combo is taking advantage of the AC bonuses in the Stalwart Defender and Eldritch Knight trees which will stack with paladin's AC.

    Paladin is a fairly backloaded melee class - largely because you can slot Holy Sword and Zeal until level 15 - and doesn't MC as well as other classes, IMO. Eldritch Knight just got buffed so if you wanted a melee wizard, you're probably better off sticking with pure.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...e-Bladesingers!
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...trimtom-Review


    Thank you very much for being so clear! I have a better picture now, I'll have to create multiple chars if I want to try everything but atm I'm leaning towards a char heavily invested on the shield feats and enhancements...and I think either fighter and paladin can go that way right? If it isn't too much to ask, could you tell me a little bit on the pros and cons of the 2 regarding the 'shield' build?

  6. #6
    Community Member Fenris7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    What difficulty are you planning on playing at? That will help with suggestions on how to best build your character. As you said you are casual, my comments will be based on that...

    A sword and board Paladin build can work on easier difficulties, so it’s fine to go that route if that is the case. I recommend the Vanguard build that Unbongwah posted in the other recent thread in the Paladin sub forum That’s about as good as you’re going to get. As for multi-classing, if you really want to make best use of using a shield then you want to use the Vanguard tree as your primary tree. The issue is that the capstone is good enough that you want to go pure. I have looked at various multi-class options and if you want to go S&B then this is the best way to go.
    Thank you very much, I don't really have any difficulty in mind as I'll just try to go as high as I can. But yes, because of yours and Unbongwahs comment I see that staying pure paladin has some benefits, so I'll probably consider that.

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris7 View Post
    If it isn't too much to ask, could you tell me a little bit on the pros and cons of the 2 regarding the 'shield' build?
    The Vanguard trees are identical, so the major differences are:

    • Fighters get a ton of bonus feats - 11 by level 20 if you stay pure - while paladins get higher saves (Divine Grace), self-healing, and buff spells.
    • The Kensei tree has better DPS bonuses than Knight of the Chalice, although the consolation prize is KotC has two Cleave attacks which take the place of the Cleave feats. [Three if you count Holy Retribution, but that one uses Turn Undead charges so it's limited-use.] But Avenging Cleave + Holy Retribution are in tier-5 KotC which locks out Vanguard's.
    • Stalwart vs Sacred Defender: these trees are mostly identical but overall Stalwart has more DPS bonuses while Sacred has more survivability bonuses, which emphasizes the distinction between both classes, IMO. Although the fighter can take the Heavy Armor feats which helps close the PRR/MRR gap.

    So the fighter has more customization options - how you invest your extra feats determines whether you're more DPS- or tanking focused - while the paladin is easier to solo, IMO.

    Note that I'm not talking about Reaper mode which subverts the usual paradigm due to the self-healing penalty: the higher the difficulty, the less self-healing you can do, so one of paladin's best features gets nerfed.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  8. #8
    Community Member Fenris7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The Vanguard trees are identical, so the major differences are:

    • Fighters get a ton of bonus feats - 11 by level 20 if you stay pure - while paladins get higher saves (Divine Grace), self-healing, and buff spells.
    • The Kensei tree has better DPS bonuses than Knight of the Chalice, although the consolation prize is KotC has two Cleave attacks which take the place of the Cleave feats. [Three if you count Holy Retribution, but that one uses Turn Undead charges so it's limited-use.] But Avenging Cleave + Holy Retribution are in tier-5 KotC which locks out Vanguard's.
    • Stalwart vs Sacred Defender: these trees are mostly identical but overall Stalwart has more DPS bonuses while Sacred has more survivability bonuses, which emphasizes the distinction between both classes, IMO. Although the fighter can take the Heavy Armor feats which helps close the PRR/MRR gap.

    So the fighter has more customization options - how you invest your extra feats determines whether you're more DPS- or tanking focused - while the paladin is easier to solo, IMO.

    Note that I'm not talking about Reaper mode which subverts the usual paradigm due to the self-healing penalty: the higher the difficulty, the less self-healing you can do, so one of paladin's best features gets nerfed.
    Now this is a though decision T.T 11 feats are a lot of feats...but spell buffs + saves is so good in me eyes too. I won't sleep tonight.

  9. #9
    Community Member Fenris7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The Vanguard trees are identical, so the major differences are:

    • Fighters get a ton of bonus feats - 11 by level 20 if you stay pure - while paladins get higher saves (Divine Grace), self-healing, and buff spells.
    • The Kensei tree has better DPS bonuses than Knight of the Chalice, although the consolation prize is KotC has two Cleave attacks which take the place of the Cleave feats. [Three if you count Holy Retribution, but that one uses Turn Undead charges so it's limited-use.] But Avenging Cleave + Holy Retribution are in tier-5 KotC which locks out Vanguard's.
    • Stalwart vs Sacred Defender: these trees are mostly identical but overall Stalwart has more DPS bonuses while Sacred has more survivability bonuses, which emphasizes the distinction between both classes, IMO. Although the fighter can take the Heavy Armor feats which helps close the PRR/MRR gap.

    So the fighter has more customization options - how you invest your extra feats determines whether you're more DPS- or tanking focused - while the paladin is easier to solo, IMO.

    Note that I'm not talking about Reaper mode which subverts the usual paradigm due to the self-healing penalty: the higher the difficulty, the less self-healing you can do, so one of paladin's best features gets nerfed.
    So I've been reading quite a few guides and created and deleted a few toons, could you please help me answering some questions?

    I've decided to go Fighter/Paladin/Wizard .I've seen that the steel maiden build goes with 5 levels of paladin and 14 of fighter, is it better than 16/3 fighter paladin? all I can think that you get with 5 pal is a extra +6 saves, some spells and some extra recharges, and I can't see if its more worth it than the extra feat from the fighter levels. This is my main concern, but I would appreciate if you could answer some of these:

    1-In my others toons when I was first trying pure fighter I was going for STR/CON and then DEX, mainly because of the dodge. But if I want to go with a tower shield, is it really worth to go with DEX? Because I have to pick quite a few enhancements to rise the dex limit and I think even then I don't have that much dodge.

    2- Should I pick some points on CHA when MC with pal? That only benefits some skills and LOH right? And I really don't think I wanna focus on LOH because then I would have to pick the sacred defender tree, which in this case is inferior to stalward defender I think?(more cores at least)

    3- Why are there so many guides that lvl up concentration? I can't really see the value on a manly fighter toon(I have only played on low levels so I can't really understand)

    4- I've seen a lot of guides which go with PA,cleave and GC. Are they really that good? I'm aiming for a tank/off tank and using 3 feats for those seems a lot to me.

    5- The vanguard enhancement brutality, it says that adds +DC to stunning blow and stunning shield, does that mean that it helps with landing the stun? Or that it extends the duration? If so, if I'm going vanguard/stalward/eldritch it may be good to focus on DC and stuns right?

    Sorry for bothering you, but also thanks.

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    First off, the Steel Maiden build is a year old so I'm not sure it's current. [This build is more recent.] Second, it is very much intended as an endgame max-AC raiding tank with presumably a ton of gear, past lives, etc. A first-lifer trying to replicate it will be...ummm...painful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris7 View Post
    I've decided to go Fighter/Paladin/Wizard .I've seen that the steel maiden build goes with 5 levels of paladin and 14 of fighter, is it better than 16/3 fighter paladin?
    PainStealer didn't list enhancements, but he did say: "T5 Sacred Defender, T4 Stalwart Defender, T1 Eldrich Knight. 12-14 Points in Elf for displacement." T5 Sacred Defender is most likely for the following: "Harbored by Light: You gain +10/15/25 Physical and Magical Resistance Rating. You gain 1/2/3 additional uses of Lay on Hands. In addition, while you are actively blocking with a shield, enemies that attack you will take 3d4/4d4/5d4 Light Damage."

    So it gains +50 PRR/MRR from defensive stance + Harbored by Light. Then it takes Heavy Armor Champion feat (req's ftr lvl 14) for another +12 PRR/MRR. However, if the Maiden stayed pure paladin instead, it would gain another +15 PRR/MRR from the Sacred Defender cores.

    So the real reason for this MC is the stacking AC bonuses: the passive bonuses from Stalwart Defender stack with Sacred Defender; and the +10% AC from Improved Mage Armor (Eldritch Knight) stacks on top of everything else including Combat Expertise. Add in a ton of gear etc. and you can see why her AC is the 500 range.
    1-In my others toons when I was first trying pure fighter I was going for STR/CON and then DEX, mainly because of the dodge. But if I want to go with a tower shield, is it really worth to go with DEX? Because I have to pick quite a few enhancements to rise the dex limit and I think even then I don't have that much dodge.
    If you're going the classic heavy armor+shield route, you can easily max out your DEX and Dodge bonuses with gear - notice that Steel Maiden started with base DEX 16 and ended up with DEX 54, which gives you a good idea of what endgame power creep is like in DDO - so there's not really a need for the Dodge+Mobility feats. [They might be helpful to the lightly-armored S&B tank, but we'll save that discussion for another time.] Unless you plan to run with Combat Expertise on 100% of the time, it is a good idea to grab the Precision feat IMO which requires base DEX 13.
    3- Why are there so many guides that lvl up concentration? I can't really see the value on a manly fighter toon(I have only played on low levels so I can't really understand)
    Okay we're getting into more advanced build-fu here: Use Magic Device (UMD) is one of the most useful skills in DDO because it lets you use scrolls and wands you might not otherwise be able to use due to class restrictions. [It's also used to bypass racial or alignment restrictions on gear.] Concentration checks apply to scrolls as well as spells. And there is no "Quicken feat for scrolls" so it's either "make a Concentration check or don't use the scroll."
    4- I've seen a lot of guides which go with PA,cleave and GC. Are they really that good? I'm aiming for a tank/off tank and using 3 feats for those seems a lot to me.
    There's really only two kinds of fights in DDO: bosses and trash mobs. For bosses you want good single-target DPS; for trash mobs you usually want good AoE DPS to clear them quickly. On a S&B build like this, your Cleaves will be your primary option for the latter.
    5- The vanguard enhancement brutality, it says that adds +DC to stunning blow and stunning shield, does that mean that it helps with landing the stun?
    Yes.
    Or that it extends the duration?
    No.
    If so, if I'm going vanguard/stalward/eldritch it may be good to focus on DC and stuns right?
    Probably.

    Personally I think trying to make an AC tank on a first-life build is a fool's errand. Building for endgame raiding like those toons is a long-term process. It's like watching the Olympics and thinking, "Oh, that looks easy, I can do that!" You gotta crawl before you can sprint, grasshopper. And frankly, leveling a low-DPS toon is a recipe for frustration for most casual players, IMO; your average PUG is gonna expect you to be able to pull your own weight and not need a babysitter. [Unless you happen to join a zerger who lets you pike. But where's the fun in that?] Which is why my newbie S&B builds always go for what I think is a good compromise between DPS and tanking / survivability.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  11. #11
    Community Member Fenris7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    First off, the Steel Maiden build is a year old so I'm not sure it's current. [This build is more recent.] Second, it is very much intended as an endgame max-AC raiding tank with presumably a ton of gear, past lives, etc. A first-lifer trying to replicate it will be...ummm...painful.

    PainStealer didn't list enhancements, but he did say: "T5 Sacred Defender, T4 Stalwart Defender, T1 Eldrich Knight. 12-14 Points in Elf for displacement." T5 Sacred Defender is most likely for the following: "Harbored by Light: You gain +10/15/25 Physical and Magical Resistance Rating. You gain 1/2/3 additional uses of Lay on Hands. In addition, while you are actively blocking with a shield, enemies that attack you will take 3d4/4d4/5d4 Light Damage."

    So it gains +50 PRR/MRR from defensive stance + Harbored by Light. Then it takes Heavy Armor Champion feat (req's ftr lvl 14) for another +12 PRR/MRR. However, if the Maiden stayed pure paladin instead, it would gain another +15 PRR/MRR from the Sacred Defender cores.

    So the real reason for this MC is the stacking AC bonuses: the passive bonuses from Stalwart Defender stack with Sacred Defender; and the +10% AC from Improved Mage Armor (Eldritch Knight) stacks on top of everything else including Combat Expertise. Add in a ton of gear etc. and you can see why her AC is the 500 range.

    If you're going the classic heavy armor+shield route, you can easily max out your DEX and Dodge bonuses with gear - notice that Steel Maiden started with base DEX 16 and ended up with DEX 54, which gives you a good idea of what endgame power creep is like in DDO - so there's not really a need for the Dodge+Mobility feats. [They might be helpful to the lightly-armored S&B tank, but we'll save that discussion for another time.] Unless you plan to run with Combat Expertise on 100% of the time, it is a good idea to grab the Precision feat IMO which requires base DEX 13.

    Okay we're getting into more advanced build-fu here: Use Magic Device (UMD) is one of the most useful skills in DDO because it lets you use scrolls and wands you might not otherwise be able to use due to class restrictions. [It's also used to bypass racial or alignment restrictions on gear.] Concentration checks apply to scrolls as well as spells. And there is no "Quicken feat for scrolls" so it's either "make a Concentration check or don't use the scroll."

    There's really only two kinds of fights in DDO: bosses and trash mobs. For bosses you want good single-target DPS; for trash mobs you usually want good AoE DPS to clear them quickly. On a S&B build like this, your Cleaves will be your primary option for the latter.

    Yes.

    No.

    Probably.

    Personally I think trying to make an AC tank on a first-life build is a fool's errand. Building for endgame raiding like those toons is a long-term process. It's like watching the Olympics and thinking, "Oh, that looks easy, I can do that!" You gotta crawl before you can sprint, grasshopper. And frankly, leveling a low-DPS toon is a recipe for frustration for most casual players, IMO; your average PUG is gonna expect you to be able to pull your own weight and not need a babysitter. [Unless you happen to join a zerger who lets you pike. But where's the fun in that?] Which is why my newbie S&B builds always go for what I think is a good compromise between DPS and tanking / survivability.
    Woah thank you very much for the info

    I'm not really trying to copy the endgame part of the silver maiden, just wanted something similar to what I wanted that made sense, so that then I could build my toon with some understanding. I wouldn't like to be like lvl 10+ and be like ' wooops I screwed up, let's start again' xD.

    Also I don't wanna be a pure tank like steel maiden, I really want to make the vanguard part work. Guess I go 16/3 if I wanna go T5 vanguard and 14/5 if I want to go T5 sacred defense... But if I don't go full AC eldritch knight loses value, I'm somewhat confused on the enhancement trees selection T.T

  12. #12
    Community Member Fenris7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    First off, the Steel Maiden build is a year old so I'm not sure it's current. [This build is more recent.] Second, it is very much intended as an endgame max-AC raiding tank with presumably a ton of gear, past lives, etc. A first-lifer trying to replicate it will be...ummm...painful.

    PainStealer didn't list enhancements, but he did say: "T5 Sacred Defender, T4 Stalwart Defender, T1 Eldrich Knight. 12-14 Points in Elf for displacement." T5 Sacred Defender is most likely for the following: "Harbored by Light: You gain +10/15/25 Physical and Magical Resistance Rating. You gain 1/2/3 additional uses of Lay on Hands. In addition, while you are actively blocking with a shield, enemies that attack you will take 3d4/4d4/5d4 Light Damage."

    So it gains +50 PRR/MRR from defensive stance + Harbored by Light. Then it takes Heavy Armor Champion feat (req's ftr lvl 14) for another +12 PRR/MRR. However, if the Maiden stayed pure paladin instead, it would gain another +15 PRR/MRR from the Sacred Defender cores.

    So the real reason for this MC is the stacking AC bonuses: the passive bonuses from Stalwart Defender stack with Sacred Defender; and the +10% AC from Improved Mage Armor (Eldritch Knight) stacks on top of everything else including Combat Expertise. Add in a ton of gear etc. and you can see why her AC is the 500 range.

    If you're going the classic heavy armor+shield route, you can easily max out your DEX and Dodge bonuses with gear - notice that Steel Maiden started with base DEX 16 and ended up with DEX 54, which gives you a good idea of what endgame power creep is like in DDO - so there's not really a need for the Dodge+Mobility feats. [They might be helpful to the lightly-armored S&B tank, but we'll save that discussion for another time.] Unless you plan to run with Combat Expertise on 100% of the time, it is a good idea to grab the Precision feat IMO which requires base DEX 13.

    Okay we're getting into more advanced build-fu here: Use Magic Device (UMD) is one of the most useful skills in DDO because it lets you use scrolls and wands you might not otherwise be able to use due to class restrictions. [It's also used to bypass racial or alignment restrictions on gear.] Concentration checks apply to scrolls as well as spells. And there is no "Quicken feat for scrolls" so it's either "make a Concentration check or don't use the scroll."

    There's really only two kinds of fights in DDO: bosses and trash mobs. For bosses you want good single-target DPS; for trash mobs you usually want good AoE DPS to clear them quickly. On a S&B build like this, your Cleaves will be your primary option for the latter.

    Yes.

    No.

    Probably.

    Personally I think trying to make an AC tank on a first-life build is a fool's errand. Building for endgame raiding like those toons is a long-term process. It's like watching the Olympics and thinking, "Oh, that looks easy, I can do that!" You gotta crawl before you can sprint, grasshopper. And frankly, leveling a low-DPS toon is a recipe for frustration for most casual players, IMO; your average PUG is gonna expect you to be able to pull your own weight and not need a babysitter. [Unless you happen to join a zerger who lets you pike. But where's the fun in that?] Which is why my newbie S&B builds always go for what I think is a good compromise between DPS and tanking / survivability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris7 View Post
    Woah thank you very much for the info

    I'm not really trying to copy the endgame part of the silver maiden, just wanted something similar to what I wanted that made sense, so that then I could build my toon with some understanding. I wouldn't like to be like lvl 10+ and be like ' wooops I screwed up, let's start again' xD.

    Also I don't wanna be a pure tank like steel maiden, I really want to make the vanguard part work. Guess I go 16/3 if I wanna go T5 vanguard and 14/5 if I want to go T5 sacred defense... But if I don't go full AC eldritch knight loses value, I'm somewhat confused on the enhancement trees selection T.T
    Have read a little bit more, if I go vanguard focus I might go just pure fighter really, vanguard cores looking dope.

  13. #13
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    I'd advise Kotc charisma pure twf pally for every "newbie" dead set on pally.
    And go full offense. Holy Retribution fun for heroics, both cleaves, great saves and Lay on hands. LD for epics.
    Any tank or "off tank" ( whatever the hell it is - I keep reading it here for some reason ) is pointless unless you REALLY know what you are doing.
    Vanguard and sword + board sucks so bad it's not even funny.

    Shahang (hjeal me), Wipekin (tempest), Nezhat (barbie) Ghallanda/Devourer

  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    "S&B Paladin DPS is bad, you should play KotC build instead."
    "Actually, pure KotC DPS is bad, you should splash <class X> instead."
    "Actually, splashed paladin DPS is bad, you should play..."
    *several steps later*
    "Err where did my deity feat go? Wait, why am I playing a Kensei again?"

    If you want to play a S&B paladin, play a S&B paladin. By the time you hit content you can't handle on your own, you'll have a better idea of what you want to do next life and a pile of gear to make it easier.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  15. #15
    Community Member Fenris7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wipey View Post
    I'd advise Kotc charisma pure twf pally for every "newbie" dead set on pally.
    And go full offense. Holy Retribution fun for heroics, both cleaves, great saves and Lay on hands. LD for epics.
    Any tank or "off tank" ( whatever the hell it is - I keep reading it here for some reason ) is pointless unless you REALLY know what you are doing.
    Vanguard and sword + board sucks so bad it's not even funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    "S&B Paladin DPS is bad, you should play KotC build instead."
    "Actually, pure KotC DPS is bad, you should splash <class X> instead."
    "Actually, splashed paladin DPS is bad, you should play..."
    *several steps later*
    "Err where did my deity feat go? Wait, why am I playing a Kensei again?"

    If you want to play a S&B paladin, play a S&B paladin. By the time you hit content you can't handle on your own, you'll have a better idea of what you want to do next life and a pile of gear to make it easier.
    Thanks for the feedback, I'll consider the pally but as another toon. For now I'll roll the vanguard and see how much I suffer xD

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    347

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris7 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback, I'll consider the pally but as another toon. For now I'll roll the vanguard and see how much I suffer xD

    I rolled time ago u pure vanguard fighter
    Was fun and dps was good

    But i had 2 main issues i wont redo that build

    No self healing at all
    Low saves and no evasion.

    So if u have an healer for you pure fighter is better. If u dont have better go pure
    Pally: yes u will have 30 less mp but u dont die
    In game in Cannith as
    Aborim Master (main toon) --- Nickallin (my tank)--- Jjnick (warlock 30) --- Nickpunick ()--- Nickruvido (my healer)--- Nickallinone (shuri build)
    GODS

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