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  1. #1
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    Default Un-nerf mnemonic potion drop rates

    <insert convincing argument>

    Stupid wisp noise mana balls are really lame and immersion breaking and that sound really grates the ears. Just make mnemonic potion drop rates the same as 2014.

  2. #2
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    <insert convincing argument>

    Stupid wisp noise mana balls are really lame and immersion breaking and that sound really grates the ears. Just make mnemonic potion drop rates the same as 2014.
    I am not sure if it was intentional or not. Regardless the best place I have found them is Vale End Reward from the NPC's. Other than that, I would love for a competent developer to work on random loot drop tables. I honestly envision this being a year long project so I have little hope of it ever happening correctly. Development is too worried about quick turn-over instead of quality product.
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    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Ive been seeing these drop a bit more often for me recently. Not sure if this is just down to luck or drop rate was increased slightly.

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    I remember getting a good lot of them (over time of course) back in cap20, what are the odds that they were coded to more commonly drop in the high teens but not epic level chests, and it's just that we've stopped playing the high teens quests as much since MotU? It's not like store mnemonics weren't there before and lost souls are the same kick in sales.
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    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    just another example of the consequences of pay to win, after they introduced buyable SP potions they got most likely the idea that they sell better if SP potions drop less often for free.
    And don't get me wrong I think it's hard to resist if you think you can make money this way you will most likely do it.
    All that we as players can do is clearly communicate that we don't want pay to win and this includes not buying any SP pots Otto's boxes etc. everything that "breaks" the normal game rules with a money "bribe".
    DDO is already without this pay to win very expensive compared to other and newer games but I'm willing to pay for content even if it is expensive because I have some trust in SSG that the price is based on a calculation that makes it inevitable to be more expensive due to the small customer base.
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  6. #6
    Community Member hp1055cm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    just another example of the consequences of pay to win
    Ridiculous. You do realize they have to make some money to stay in business, right?

    I have hundreds of Mnem pots sitting on a mule that I never paid for; because I don't play a caster type often. Both the store variety and the in game variety.
    In addition they are readily available on the auction houses if you are addicted to them.
    Need I say they aren't "required" to play, there are an abundance of shrines in most quests and other players will give them to you if you ask; especially while questing together.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I've run into players that actually thought that the only way to play a caster was purchasing these potions from the DDO store.

    After a discussion, and passing on advice on SP management these same people went on to actually enjoy playing a spell caster and the mnemonic potions became abundant and used when they mattered .

    So if as a caster you are finding you are running low {Ana Brabener Voice} "All The Time" you should examine how you are using your SP.

    When are you over casting? IE using more SP then what is needed to accomplish the task such as using 200 SP when a 10 SP option will work
    When are you over Meta'ng? IE using Quicken when Quicken isn't needed, or Enlarge when Enlarge isn't needed.
    When are you using Single Target Spells on large groups, or AoE spells on single targets?
    When are you falling into the trap of "Must Hit everything"?
    What is the best casting order? Are you using spells that cause Helpless damage after you cast a damage spell or before. Your DPS or DC success rate can be increased if using the correct order.

  8. #8
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    Ridiculous. You do realize they have to make some money to stay in business, right?
    It is ridiculous indeed, to deny that this is pay to win, and they absolutely are NOT forced to do that many even bigger games run without such a kind of micropayment and pay to win.
    See WoW it made Blizzard a multi-billion Dollar company without such a kind of pay to win.
    The question is of course if they are successful because they dont have such a questionable business model and if they could earn more money if they had it.
    Of course, the customers have to pay for the content but it's NOT need to have pay for win to have fun with a game.
    If the customers say NO to such micropayment and pay to win game companies will not have something like this in their games but if the customers pay for this they take the money of course.
    The customers decide at the end with their wallet.

    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    I have hundreds of Mnem pots sitting on a mule that I never paid for; because I don't play a caster type often. Both the store variety and the in game variety.
    In addition they are readily available on the auction houses if you are addicted to them.
    Need I say they aren't "required" to play, there are an abundance of shrines in most quests and other players will give them to you if you ask; especially while questing together.
    SP is most time, not a big issue just only when it comes to red and purple named with ridiculous amounts of HP and no weapon user in your group.
    But you dont see the consequences, the next step is to have fewer shrines in quests if SSG thinks this needs to make more money with SP potions...
    Of course, you can happily pay for a win but you should not wonder if you have to pay more and more then in the future.
    Every time you pull out your wallet you make a vote with it, SSG, of course, says yes to your money and want as much as possible from you.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
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  9. #9
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    But you dont see the consequences, the next step is to have fewer shrines in quests if SSG thinks this needs to make more money with SP potions...
    Of course, you can happily pay for a win but you should not wonder if you have to pay more and more then in the future.
    Every time you pull out your wallet you make a vote with it, SSG, of course, says yes to your money and want as much as possible from you.
    Oh yes, there are so few shrines in Ravenloft. Why the other day I was doing Mad Tea Party and only used two! Or Invitation to Dinner where we used like 4! How ridiculous is that, there should be one every room!

    Pretty sure you can't say SSG is reducing shrines in quests lol. Especially compared to some of the older ones that only have one (or even none).
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  10. #10
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Oh yes, there are so few shrines in Ravenloft. Why the other day I was doing Mad Tea Party and only used two! Or Invitation to Dinner where we used like 4! How ridiculous is that, there should be one every room!

    Pretty sure you can't say SSG is reducing shrines in quests lol. Especially compared to some of the older ones that only have one (or even none).
    Well to be fair you do need enough "Search" to find the secret doors for some of these shrines :P.

    I've also ran into people that don't shrine because then they would fall behind and not be on the top of the "kill count list" .

  11. #11
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    just another example of the consequences of pay to win, after they introduced buyable SP potions they got most likely the idea that they sell better if SP potions drop less often for free.
    And don't get me wrong I think it's hard to resist if you think you can make money this way you will most likely do it.
    All that we as players can do is clearly communicate that we don't want pay to win and this includes not buying any SP pots Otto's boxes etc. everything that "breaks" the normal game rules with a money "bribe".
    DDO is already without this pay to win very expensive compared to other and newer games but I'm willing to pay for content even if it is expensive because I have some trust in SSG that the price is based on a calculation that makes it inevitable to be more expensive due to the small customer base.
    People love this narrative, but it doesn't make any sense given the timeline and other changes to the game. Mnemonic pots dropped normally for literally years after SP pots were introduced to the store. It wasn't until there were broad changes to lootgen that they were diluted by other "special" drops. Also if they're trying to bilk us for store pots, then why TF would they have added lost souls? Back in the cap 20 days running out of SP was a real issue. Between the generally faster pace of the game, lost souls, and generous shrine placement, running out of SP is hardly a thing anymore. If they're trying to push everyone into buying SP pots they're doing a terrible job of it.

    It's ridiculous how people jump to these conclusions because of a single data point, when there are many others that point the other direction. I bet they sell fewer SP pots these days than they did during the cap 20 days when the free ones dropped more frequently.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    People love this narrative, but it doesn't make any sense given the timeline and other changes to the game. Mnemonic pots dropped normally for literally years after SP pots were introduced to the store. It wasn't until there were broad changes to lootgen that they were diluted by other "special" drops. Also if they're trying to bilk us for store pots, then why TF would they have added lost souls? Back in the cap 20 days running out of SP was a real issue. Between the generally faster pace of the game, lost souls, and generous shrine placement, running out of SP is hardly a thing anymore. If they're trying to push everyone into buying SP pots they're doing a terrible job of it.

    It's ridiculous how people jump to these conclusions because of a single data point, when there are many others that point the other direction. I bet they sell fewer SP pots these days than they did during the cap 20 days when the free ones dropped more frequently.
    Not to mention echos and SLA's. Those never used to be a thing at all.

    I literally sell most of the mnem's I get. I should probably keep a few - but it's just that low of a priority.

  13. #13
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    Ridiculous. You do realize they have to make some money to stay in business, right?
    They could... I dunno... make content that people want to play that they will end up buying as content instead of selling easy mode in the DDO store?
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  14. #14
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Oh yes, there are so few shrines in Ravenloft. Why the other day I was doing Mad Tea Party and only used two! Or Invitation to Dinner where we used like 4! How ridiculous is that, there should be one every room!

    Pretty sure you can't say SSG is reducing shrines in quests lol. Especially compared to some of the older ones that only have one (or even none).
    Also, you don't get that it is a dynamic process SSG react to what players pay for, currently it is of course not a big issue in most quests and I just hope this get not worse in the future.
    But think about it if you would be SSG and you want to make players buy more SP potions because you think (and your sales figures tell you this) what would you do?
    Do you seriously think SSG doesn't take your money when they can?
    Maybe your just naive or you try to defend SSG...
    I just say that reducing shrines is a possible next step not that it happens already, I thought that's clear enough.

    And when it comes to raids it is indeed already now a problem in my opinion.
    I run once a Fall of the Truth as a pure caster (with only spell dps) and my whole group was the same.
    In the end, everyone was out of SP and we had no chance.
    And just to mention it I soloed this raid already on a ranged weapon build too, who was not dependant on SP.
    I saw once a Shiradi build doing it solo but if I remember correctly also he used some SP potions or he would have run out of SP...
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
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  15. #15
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    People love this narrative, but it doesn't make any sense given the timeline and other changes to the game. Mnemonic pots dropped normally for literally years after SP pots were introduced to the store. It wasn't until there were broad changes to lootgen that they were diluted by other "special" drops. Also if they're trying to bilk us for store pots, then why TF would they have added lost souls? Back in the cap 20 days running out of SP was a real issue. Between the generally faster pace of the game, lost souls, and generous shrine placement, running out of SP is hardly a thing anymore. If they're trying to push everyone into buying SP pots they're doing a terrible job of it.

    It's ridiculous how people jump to these conclusions because of a single data point, when there are many others that point the other direction. I bet they sell fewer SP pots these days than they did during the cap 20 days when the free ones dropped more frequently.
    The drop rate of many things where reduced after they introduced the DDO shop, e.g. tomes dropped MUCH more frequently, I can remember I had a mule full of tomes and I sold a LOT for platin.
    But nowadays the main source for tomes are the DDO store I doubt that there is an existing character (or maybe a hand full) who have a full set of +8 tomes from chests.
    And do you really think that's just an accident?
    What do you think what are the reasons why tome and SP drops are reduced?
    Why do you think why hearts of wood (for LR) don't drop anymore form chests (if they do they are SUPER rare)
    Also, you just try to defend SSG at a point where is no need to do that.
    Because I dont attack SSG, it's understandable if they think they have to go this way because they need this to earn enough money for the game.
    I just say I have the opinion they should rather rely on that players understand that they need money and give them instead good offers with quality content and players will pay for that.
    And not going the cheap way and sell out DDO with pay to win.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  16. #16
    Uber Completionist kain741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    They could... I dunno... make content that people want to play that they will end up buying as content instead of selling easy mode in the DDO store?
    I do believe that's the model. I think we've seen an over abundance of positive feedback about Ravenloft and the idea is to keep that momentum into Sharn.
    Store items are 100% unnecessary for any build, quest or objective. If someone want to run a fully meta'd sorc and take no effort be efficient on SP then they will have issues but those are individual choices. There has been a lot done with lost souls and SLAs that let people run these high SP using toons. Now if people want to neglect that aspect to optimize other areas of their toons and choose to buy store pots to supplement then that is their choice.
    Bottom line is it may be easy mode but it is 100% by personal choice and not required at all. I guess kids selling lemonade on a hot day to thirsty people that walk by is easy mode and shouldn't happen because it is wrong. It is a business...they provide the means for you to do it without the store and if something goes wrong in quest and you need more resources they offer those at a cost as any business should.
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  17. #17
    Uber Completionist kain741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    Maybe your just naive or you try to defend SSG...
    I just say that reducing shrines is a possible next step not that it happens already, I thought that's clear enough.
    Ok, so let me get this straight...you want to incriminate them for something they haven't done yet and have no precedent for doing? Makes sense...why stop here? Let's also riot because they could remove the permanency of tomes again making us buy them every life. Oh wait...that's an example of how they have reduced your spending...
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  18. #18
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kain741 View Post
    I do believe that's the model.
    That is not the model. The model is to come out with enough new content to keep people playing and then make the actual profits off of whales who purchase large amounts of consumables. Just like it's the model of virtually every other "p2w" franchise that calls itself free to play.

    That's a very successful model and it's pretty shrewd of Turbine/SSG to go that path, but let's call a spade a spade here. There's zero chance that SSG is making most of its money off of expansion and adventure pack sales.
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  19. #19
    Community Member 3Kobolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    I've run into players that actually thought that the only way to play a caster was purchasing these potions from the DDO store.

    After a discussion, and passing on advice on SP management these same people went on to actually enjoy playing a spell caster and the mnemonic potions became abundant and used when they mattered .

    So if as a caster you are finding you are running low {Ana Brabener Voice} "All The Time" you should examine how you are using your SP.

    When are you over casting? IE using more SP then what is needed to accomplish the task such as using 200 SP when a 10 SP option will work
    When are you over Meta'ng? IE using Quicken when Quicken isn't needed, or Enlarge when Enlarge isn't needed.
    When are you using Single Target Spells on large groups, or AoE spells on single targets?
    When are you falling into the trap of "Must Hit everything"?
    What is the best casting order? Are you using spells that cause Helpless damage after you cast a damage spell or before. Your DPS or DC success rate can be increased if using the correct order.
    ^100% this^ I hear people toss around "pay to win" accusations and in a lot of cases it's really just not learning to play well. Yes, I've paid for things in the game, but I always see it as paying for convenience or an easy button because my time is finite and I'd rather have fun than grind stuff out sometimes. I don't think it's ever been intended that you play this game as a solo caster in reaper and have reason to complain about running out of SP. Sure, some people can, but I think they've always intended it as a multi-player game and, if you don't try to nuke everything on your own, your party might just help you get through a quest with some SP to spare. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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  20. #20
    Uber Completionist kain741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    That is not the model. The model is to come out with enough new content to keep people playing and then make the actual profits off of whales who purchase large amounts of consumables. Just like it's the model of virtually every other "p2w" franchise that calls itself free to play.

    That's a very successful model and it's pretty shrewd of Turbine/SSG to go that path, but let's call a spade a spade here. There's zero chance that SSG is making most of its money off of expansion and adventure pack sales.
    I would challenge that because even if the xpacs are not making any money (which i believe they are making some) they have to have enough quality to get people playing so they can complement that revenue with boxes, xp elixers, cosmetics, etc etc etc. With poor content they cannot sell anything. The model has start with quality game content and then any company will then find ways to synergize with additional sales.
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