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  1. #1
    Community Member Dulcimerist's Avatar
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    Default Need 28-Point F2P Pally for My Daughter

    My teenage daughter is new to DDO, and is looking for an easy-to-play and self-sufficient melee character. Paladin seems to be the ticket here. She's still getting the feel for the game, and isn't certain if she likes DDO yet, so she's completely F2P at the moment - no premium races or classes yet.

    Unless people have some alternate ideas, I believe we're looking at a human paladin, "sword & board" style, probably using the new Knight's Training feat.

    In addition to a build, could someone please help figure out how to get the character to look like Gal Gadot from the new Wonder Woman movies?

    Thanks for helping out my kid!
    "Swords will cut you wide open!" - Trip Fisk

  2. #2
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    EllisDee37's Vanguard Paladin for new players is a very good guide.

    Best of luck to you

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    If you plan to use Knight's Training on a Vanguard, skip the THF feats (since they don't apply to KT weapons). Which is to say, it looks like a khopesh build but with KT instead of khop prof.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If you plan to use Knight's Training on a Vanguard, skip the THF feats (since they don't apply to KT weapons). Which is to say, it looks like a khopesh build but with KT instead of khop prof.
    Something like this using a Longsword with Knights Training could work:

    1 Shield Mastery
    1 Power Attack
    1 Deity: Follower of: Sovereign Host
    3 Stunning Blow
    6 Knights Training (+4 BAB Req)
    6 Deity Unyielding Sovereignty
    9 Improved Critical: Slashing
    12 Improved Shield Mastery
    15 Child of the Sovereign Host (You have +2 to attack and damage rolls with longswords)
    18 Beloved of the Sovereign Host (You have +2 to attack and damage rolls with longswords)

    There are discussions about weapon choice in the guide if youre looking for maximum damage for the build it is worth the time reading it through.

    Also the feat selection may be better for a Heroic build with something like this since Glancing Blow damage is so extensive on a brawling class like this:

    1 Two Handed Fighting
    1 Human: Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword (Dwarf skips this, uses Dwarven Axe instead)
    1 Deity: Follower of: Sovereign Host
    3 Stunning Blow
    6 Improved Two Handed Fighting
    6 Deity Unyielding Sovereignty
    9 Improved Critical: Slashing
    12 Greater Two Handed Fighting
    15 Shield Mastery
    18 Improved Shield Mastery

    You can still use a BSword and Shield all the way through heroics. Pushes back Shield Mastery feats (8% Doublestrike 15 PRR +6 Melee Power) to later levels in exchange for 50% Glancing Blow Damage by level 12.

  5. #5
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    Some gear tips. For a free player, help her get Nightforge Avenger Blade at level 9.
    If she ends up using Tower Shields, consider The Mother Board from anniversary event, still 3 days to go. Maybe the Heavy Armor as well.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    On the one hand, the Anniversary Party gear is pretty nice for a newbie just getting started. The boots, armor, and tower shield are worthwhile.

    OTOH, if you're a newbie and your first exposure to DDO is "farm this quest full of boss fights for three days," it might sour you on the game entirely.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 03-17-2019 at 10:36 PM.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
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  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimerist View Post
    Unless people have some alternate ideas, I believe we're looking at a human paladin, "sword & board" style, probably using the new Knight's Training feat.
    Quick basic Vanguard update:
    Code:
    Sacred Vanguard Knight (U43)
    Paladin 20
    Lawful Good Human
    
    
    Stats
                   28pt     32pt     Level Up
                   ----     ----     --------
    Strength        16       16       4: STR
    Dexterity        8        8       8: STR
    Constitution    14       16      12: STR
    Intelligence    10       10      16: STR
    Wisdom           8        8      20: STR
    Charisma        16       16      24: STR
                                     28: STR
    
    Skills
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
             ------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent   3  2     2     2     2     2     2     2     2     2     2  23
    Intim     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    UMD       2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
    Heal      1                                                            1
             ------------------------------------------------------------
             12  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3
    
    
    Feats
    
     1        : Shield Mastery
     1 Human  : Improved Shield Bash
     3        : Power Attack
     6        : Knight's Training
     9        : Improved Critical: Slashing OR Bludgeoning
    12        : Improved Shield Mastery
    15        : Quicken Spell
    18        : Empower Healing Spell OR Stunning Blow
    21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic   : Bulwark of Defense OR Stunning Blow
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction OR Shield Deflection
    28 Destiny: First Blood OR Elusive Target
    29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
    30 Epic   : Epic Fortitude OR Shield Deflection
    30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Celestia
    
     1 Deity  : Follower of: Onatar
     6 Deity  : Onatar's Forge
    
    
    Enhancements (80 AP)
    
    Vanguard (42 AP)
    
    • To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion
      1. Shield Specialization, Shield Smash III
      2. Shield Specialization, Brutality III, Stunning Shield III, Missile Shield III, Melee Power Boost III
      3. Shield Specialization, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark
      4. (none)
      5. Shield to the Face, Disorienting Smash III, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength
    Knight of the Chalice (22 AP)
    • Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II
      1. Extra Turning III, Extra Smite II
      2. Divine Might III, Exalted Cleave III
      3. Divine Sacrifice I, Vigor of Life
      4. Empowered Smite
    Sacred Defender (13 AP)
    • Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
      1. Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III
      2. Resilient Defense II
      3. Tenacious Defense III
    Human (3 AP)
    • Damage Boost
      1. Improved Recovery
    Leveling Guide
    1. Van0 To the Fore!; Hum0 Damage Boost; Van1 Shield Specialization
    2. SD0 Holy Bastion; SD1 Extra Lay On Hands I, II, III
    3. SD1 Durable Defense I; SD0 Sacred Defense; SD1 Durable Defense II, III
    4. Van1 Shield Smash I, II, III; Van0 Shield Combat I
    5. Hum1 Improved Recovery; Van2 Stunning Shield I, II
    6. Van2 Stunning Shield III; Van0 Vicious Shield I; Van3 Follow Up I, II
    7. Van3 Follow Up III; Van3 Fatal Bulwark; Van2 Melee Power Boost I
    8. Van2 Melee Power Boost II, III; Van2 Missile Shield I, II
    9. Van2 Missile Shield III; Van2 Brutality I, II, III
    10. Van2 Shield Specialization; Van3 Shield Specialization
    11. SD2 Resilient Defense I, II; SD3 Tenacious Defense I, II
    12. Van0 Shield Combat II; Van5 Shield Charge I, II, III
    13. Van5 Shield to the Face; Van5 Armored Strength
    14. SD3 Tenacious Defense III; Van5 Disorienting Smash I, II, III
    15. KoC0 Slayer of Evil; KoC1 Extra Turning I, II, III
    16. KoC1 Extra Smite I; KoC2 Exalted Cleave I, II, III
    17. KoC2 Divine Might I, II
    18. Van0 Vicious Shield II; KoC0 Courage of Heaven; KoC0 Slayer of Evil II; KoC3 Divine Sacrifice I
    19. KoC3 Vigor of Life; KoC2 Divine Might III
    20. Van0 Shield Champion; KoC1 Extra Smite II; KoC4 Empowered Smite
    Destiny (24 AP) Divine Crusader
    1. Endless Turning III, Interrogation, Purge the Wicked
    2. Consecration III
    3. Sacred Ground, Blessed Blades
    4. No Regret, Crusade
    5. Castigation, Heavenly Presence, Celestial Champion
    6. Strike Down
    Twists of Fate (11 fate points)
    1. Block Energy (Tier 2 Sentinel)
    2. Legendary Shield Mastery (Tier 2 Sentinel)
    3. Brace for Impact (Tier 1 Sentinel)
    Tenacious Defense can be swapped in epics for either Strong or Hardy Defense if you use Epic Defensive Fighting stance.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    On the one hand, the Anniversary Party gear is pretty nice for a newbie just getting started. The boots, armor, and tower shield are worthwhile.

    OTOH, if you're a newbie and your first exposure to DDO is "farm this quest full of boss fights for three days," it might sour you on the game entirely.
    Well for two level 5 items, it's like 2-3 runs with her parked at the entrance and dad doing the heavy lifting.

  9. #9
    Community Member Dulcimerist's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of the input!

    Although long sword (or heavy mace / war hammer) & shield was my "go-to" instinct, what would be the advantages/disadvantages of going the b-sword or khop route? Would being F2P possibly make good b-swords and khops more difficult to acquire, if the good ones are named and in P2P content?

    I'll do some more reading, and run these ideas past my daughter. She's looking for simplicity, self-sufficiency, survivability, and self-heals. Damage mitigation is wonderful, but DPS is important since killing the stuff that damages you is the best damage mitigation. I suppose a balance of offense and defense, maybe leaning a bit more toward offense. It sounds as though this character won't spend much time in epics.

    We'll check out the anniversary event, but the grind of that might burn her out. It might be fun for a few runs, though; which is enough for a low level item or two. I'll have her start collecting daily Cannith Challenge tokens as well, but those tend to be an even more tedious grind.
    "Swords will cut you wide open!" - Trip Fisk

  10. #10
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    Atm as a F2P Heroic player myself, my go to are random Vorpal weapons.

    You could pass named weapons that arent bound but the best of the named Bastard Swords are account bound i believe.

    Not sure about Longswords and Khopeshes though. Might be worth a look at the named weapons in ddowiki.

  11. #11
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimerist View Post
    Although long sword (or heavy mace / war hammer) & shield was my "go-to" instinct, what would be the advantages/disadvantages of going the b-sword or khop route? Would being F2P possibly make good b-swords and khops more difficult to acquire, if the good ones are named and in P2P content?
    Bastard swords and dwarven axes get glancing blows when single-wielded (i.e., S&B or SWF). That's the main advantage to using them on a Vanguard. The drawback is if you really want to max out their DPS, you need the THF feats for the extra glancing blow damage and the Shield Mastery feats for the extra doublestrike. That's a lot of feats on a feat-starved class like paladin.

    Khopeshes have a better critical threat range than either b.swords or d.axes, but the downside is no glancing blows. The Knight's Training feat improves longswords, battleaxes, and warhammers so they are on par with khopeshes. So why pick Knight's Training over exotics? Because it boosts a larger variety of weapons; you aren't constrained to a single weapon type like you are with an exotic proficiency. There are a lot more named longswords, battleaxes, etc. than there are of the other types. So like I said elsewhere, that's good if you're a newbie who has to make use of the weapons you find while leveling; and it's good if you're a vet who wants a DPS boost to a special named weapon like Soulrazor.

    At level 9, a good F2P quest to loot-run is ARoaSP: the longsword and warhammer would be particularly nice for a first-lifer VG, which become 15-20/x3 and 18-20/x4 respectively with Knight's Training + relevant Improved Critical feat. [If you were still using them at level 14, Holy Sword makes them 14-20/x4 and 17-20/x5.] And it can be farmed on Casual for ore as many times as necessary.
    We'll check out the anniversary event, but the grind of that might burn her out. It might be fun for a few runs, though; which is enough for a low level item or two. I'll have her start collecting daily Cannith Challenge tokens as well, but those tend to be an even more tedious grind.
    As cru121 reminded me, the ML:5 items only take 10 Party Favors, which should only take a couple of runs each. And it's good practice for learning how to deal with bosses.

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Anniversary_Party_(13th)
    Last edited by unbongwah; 03-18-2019 at 07:24 PM.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
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  12. #12
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimerist View Post
    Although long sword (or heavy mace / war hammer) & shield was my "go-to" instinct, what would be the advantages/disadvantages of going the b-sword or khop route? Would being F2P possibly make good b-swords and khops more difficult to acquire, if the good ones are named and in P2P content?
    Khopesh is "the" high DPS single-target weapon, followed closely by the bastard sword (and Dwarven Axe). B-swords (& Dwaxes) enjoy the advantage of causing "glancing blows", which effects nearby enemies, creating a sort of AoE effect. So, for single target, Khopesh - but for more general melee against a group, b-sword.

    I couldn't speak as to F2P availability, but as mentioned above a good Vorpal is great for at least the first half of Heroics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimerist View Post
    Damage mitigation is wonderful, but DPS is important since killing the stuff that damages you is the best damage mitigation. I suppose a balance of offense and defense, maybe leaning a bit more toward offense.
    Zactly. In the current game, offense is king - kill your enemies, and then they don't tend to kill you.

    Sword and board has noticeably less DPS, and while the character has more survivability, the player may often find quests taking MUCH longer exactly because they simply can't kill stuff fast enough. (And, if against casters, sooner or later you will roll a "1", so again speed is king.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimerist View Post
    It sounds as though this character won't spend much time in epics.
    Personally, I recommend that new players do not aim their first character for Epic. This is for several reasons - the build may have flaws, the gear is not all it might be, the player has less familiarity with the game in general, and it's a looong march. A shorter 1-20 and TR is a far quicker and more positive reward.

    The counter-argument is that your 2nd life takes 1.5x more xp to get there (and 3rd(+) twice as much), so doing it on the first run is the "fast" way to go - but I feel, first time around, it'd just be added confusion, and i don't think the above arguments are outweighed by that. Ymmv.

    We'll check out the anniversary event... It might be fun for a few runs, though; which is enough for a low level item or two. I'll have her start collecting daily Cannith Challenge tokens as well, but those tend to be an even more tedious grind.
    See if you can join/form a group - that can make challenges far faster (and less grindy).

    (What server will you be on?)


    Edit - btw - there's also this https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...hter-Cleric%29 Just throwing it out there.

  13. #13
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Most importantly, everyone needs to play what they think will be fun. I like Unbongwah's build posted above for a sword and board build. Another option for a simple, 28-point, free to play paladin would be to go with a two-handed weapon. My guess is that your daughter will play a lot of quests on normal, and maybe hard. So I don't think the loss of DPS/defensive benefits gained from using a shield is worth it. Instead, go for a cleaving, offensive focused two-handed fighting build, though it is always helpful to keep a shield around for times when you need a little extra defense (ex. you want to shield block / protect a fellow party member from enemy archers while they do something). My recommended build is as follows:

    Human 28 Point, Free to Play, Two-Handed Fighting, Heroic, Starter Paladin
    Lawful Good

    Stats for 28 point build:
    Strength: 16 (10 build points) - put all level ups into strength
    Dexterity: 8
    Constitution: 14 (6 build points)
    Intelligence: 12 (4 build points)
    Wisdom: 10 (2 build points)
    Charisma: 14 (6 build points)

    Skills:
    Max out Concentration, Heal, Jump and UMD

    Feats:
    Level 1: Two-Handed Fighting, Dragonmark of Passage, Sovereign Host
    Level 3: Power Attack
    Level 6: Improved Two-Handed Fighting
    Level 9: Improved Critical-Slashing
    Level 12: Greater Two-Handed Fighting
    Level 15: Choice
    Level 18: Choice

    Notes on Feats:
    1) I updated this from my original list.
    2) The Dragonmark of Passage is for the expeditious retreat clicky ability. For someone starting out in DDO this seems like it would be really helpful. If you get into trouble, you will be able to outrun the monsters. At higher levels once you have a 25% or 30% speed item this can be swapped out using the once a life free feat swap, if desired.
    3) Sovereign Host is primarily for the Unyielding Sovereignty free feat at level 6.
    4) I left the last two feats as "choice" with the intent that someone that has leveled up to 15th level could start reading over the various feats and have some ideas of what they would like to try.

    Enhancements - These can be reset so play around with different ones:
    Knight of the Chalice: Go to tier 5
    Sacred Defender: Go to tier 4
    Human: Put extra points here (3 points gets 10% healing amplification)
    Last edited by Ralmeth; 03-20-2019 at 10:54 AM.
    The best part of the 10th Anniversary of DDO...the description on the Oatmeal Raisin Kookie,
    "From a distance you thought this was a chocolate chip kookie. Now you're sad."

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