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  1. #21
    Community Member Calonderial's Avatar
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    I didn't notice anything particularly funky happening with my tail, but my ears wouldn't listen and kept floating off and doing their own thing, no helmet equipped just the spider mask
    Male Tiefling, Pure Wizard, Diplomancer equipped

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    As per the disclaimer on the preview 1 and now preview 2 tiefling threads: All visuals were/are not final. The smaller horns were cut between previews.
    OK, if the small horns MUST go, then let the cosmetic helms cover the big ones up- waaay too ugly.


    Also, don't understand why this is. The Tieflings we fight have small horns... bring back small horns please.

  3. #23

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    As I mentiond on the Podcast this week, I'm not a fan of this dropping the small horns.. I really hope you think about reversing this and adding them back in..

    The bigger horns, just DO NOT LOOK GOOD AT ALL...

    ugh..
    "Denn Die Toten Reiten Schnell"
    "For The Dead Travel Fast"

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draculetta View Post
    As I mentiond on the Podcast this week, I'm not a fan of this dropping the small horns.. I really hope you think about reversing this and adding them back in..

    The bigger horns, just DO NOT LOOK GOOD AT ALL...

    ugh..
    Seconded!!!

    Saal ????
    "Fools said I, you do not know. Silence like a cancer grows, hear my words that I might teach you, take my hand that I might reach you, but my words like silent raindrops fell...."-Paul Simon "Day after day, we caught no breath or motion. As idle as a painted ship upon a painted ocean."--Coleridge

  5. #25
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GramercyRiff View Post
    Small horns overpowered?

    This is a baffling change that makes no sense at all. Bad move.

    So they can sell you cosmetics?
    I would have loved a blue skin tone and a no horn option:



    Anyway, coco? I hope you or one of the other devs see this:

    The race comes over as a boring and blend caster orientated gish.
    I'm forced to run this mess 9 times to regain racial completionist on 3 toons, could you at least make it bareble for a heavy melee?
    Or make a race a tiny minority of the playerbase would like? Maybe a half ogre or half troll? Something interesting and strenght based instead of another "scales with spellpower/int/wis/cha" race?

  6. #26
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    Default Small Horns Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draculetta View Post
    As I mentiond on the Podcast this week, I'm not a fan of this dropping the small horns.. I really hope you think about reversing this and adding them back in..

    The bigger horns, just DO NOT LOOK GOOD AT ALL...

    ugh..
    I want to third Draculetta's request for small horns. It doesn't make sense not to have them as all of the existing tiefling NPCs already have small horns.

    How is a tiefling supposed to "blend in" with gigantic horns coming out of their forehead.

  7. #27
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    Just have to add another voice requesting small horns and shorter or maybe no tail as options. Not a fan of the 5th edition Tiefling look.

  8. #28
    Community Member Cookiegum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    The smaller horns were cut between previews.
    Booooooooooooooooooooooooo

  9. #29
    Community Member Cookiegum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    could you at least make it bareble for a heavy melee? [...] Something interesting and strenght based instead of another "scales with spellpower/int/wis/cha" race?
    I feel you pain fellow melee-minded. I recently feel less and less welcomed in this game as everything seems moving to cater to spellslingers and pew-pews. I think devs don't like melee dps and they barely tollerate tanks.
    These tieflings got a tiny bit of melee enhancements even if I was hoping for more. Oh well at least they looks nice..

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegum View Post
    I feel you pain fellow melee-minded. I recently feel less and less welcomed in this game as everything seems moving to cater to spellslingers and pew-pews. I think devs don't like melee dps and they barely tollerate tanks.
    These tieflings got a tiny bit of melee enhancements even if I was hoping for more. Oh well at least they looks nice..
    That's an interesting statement. Let's take a look at the last few years of updates to evaluate it:
    • Update 22: Added Swashbuckler, a primarily-melee tree with some thrown weapon support
    • Update 23: Armor Up, an armor pass meant primarily to help heavy-armor and shield-using melees survive. Also, KOTC (primarily melee) improvements, Sacred Defender (primarily used by melee) improvements, Stalwart Defender (primarily used by melee) improvements, and the new Vanguard (melee) tree. Also, Harper (a mix of melee, ranged, and caster utility). Boosts to add Melee Power to most of the Melee weapon style feats.
    • Update 24: Small buff to Caster druids, full revamp of Barbarian (melee) trees.
    • Update 25: Adjustment to Crossbow mechanics (ranged), revamp to Mechanic tree (ranged), revamp to other two Rogue trees (melee and melee).
    • Update 26: Warlock! A new Caster class. (caster x3)
    • Update 27: No significant systems updates.
    • Update 28: Updates to Ranger trees (ranged, melee, ranged/melee hybrid)
    • Update 29: Level cap increase
    • Update 30: Gnomes/Deep Gnomes (arguably caster), Arcanotech revamp (Caster)
    • Update 31: Fighter revamp (melee x2-3)
    • Update 32: No significant systems updates
    • Update 33: Monk revamp (primarily melee, some ranged)
    • Update 34: Reaper
    • Update 35: Dragonborn (arguably caster), racial reincarnation
    • Update 36: Battle Engineer revamp (melee/ranged)
    • Update 37ish: Vistani Knife Fighter (primarily melee, some ranged), Aasimar (relatively neutral), Aasimar Scourge (melee)
    • Update 38: Renegade Mastermaker (relatively neutral to melee/ranged/caster)
    • Update 39: Beacon of Hope (caster), Falconry (melee/ranged), Warpriest/Warsoul (primarily melee, some ranged), Barbarian adjustments again (melee)
    • Update 40: Wood Elf (somewhat neutral)
    • Update 41: Bard revamp (melee/caster), Eldritch Knight (caster/melee), Spell Additions (caster)
    • Post-U41: Inquisitive (ranged), Tiefling (mostly caster), Tiefling Scoundrel


    *yes, I know I'm missing some smaller stuff. Painting in some broad strokes here. It's the weekend.

    Ultimately: In the last several years we've had a lot of updates to Melee trees and features, and have been working on balance in the melee ecosystem a lot. We like melees and tanks. We did a lot of work on them. A LOT of work. Literally thousands of hours of work to make melees and tanks better. While it's still not perfect, and we're going to continue adding melee-centric features and making adjustments to melees in the future, melees have gotten broader and larger love in the last few years than casters and ranged characters; we need to also be adding new features and making adjustments there too.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  11. #31
    Community Member Cookiegum's Avatar
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    I felt guilty as soon as I posted my reply, because I didn't want derail the thread or turn everything into (yet) another debating festival. But hey, I got a quoted from a dev! Wooooot totally awesome lol

    @Steelstar
    I play a Pally, and have since.. 11 years now. No regrets, enjoyed it in good and bad times. Last big thingy I saw passing near me was Epic Defensive Fighting, looking at the other melee guys growing fatter. Now sitting tight and waiting for the KoC pass.
    But really you took the time for a lenghty post just for little me. So happy that I'd almost wish to share my box of cookies with you.. almost

  12. #32
    Community Member Ballrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    That's an interesting statement. Let's take a look at the last few years of updates to evaluate it:
    • Update 22: Added Swashbuckler, a primarily-melee tree with some thrown weapon support
    • Update 23: Armor Up, an armor pass meant primarily to help heavy-armor and shield-using melees survive. Also, KOTC (primarily melee) improvements, Sacred Defender (primarily used by melee) improvements, Stalwart Defender (primarily used by melee) improvements, and the new Vanguard (melee) tree. Also, Harper (a mix of melee, ranged, and caster utility). Boosts to add Melee Power to most of the Melee weapon style feats.
    • Update 24: Small buff to Caster druids, full revamp of Barbarian (melee) trees.
    • Update 25: Adjustment to Crossbow mechanics (ranged), revamp to Mechanic tree (ranged), revamp to other two Rogue trees (melee and melee).
    • Update 26: Warlock! A new Caster class. (caster x3)
    • Update 27: No significant systems updates.
    • Update 28: Updates to Ranger trees (ranged, melee, ranged/melee hybrid)
    • Update 29: Level cap increase
    • Update 30: Gnomes/Deep Gnomes (arguably caster), Arcanotech revamp (Caster)
    • Update 31: Fighter revamp (melee x2-3)
    • Update 32: No significant systems updates
    • Update 33: Monk revamp (primarily melee, some ranged)
    • Update 34: Reaper
    • Update 35: Dragonborn (arguably caster), racial reincarnation
    • Update 36: Battle Engineer revamp (melee/ranged)
    • Update 37ish: Vistani Knife Fighter (primarily melee, some ranged), Aasimar (relatively neutral), Aasimar Scourge (melee)
    • Update 38: Renegade Mastermaker (relatively neutral to melee/ranged/caster)
    • Update 39: Beacon of Hope (caster), Falconry (melee/ranged), Warpriest/Warsoul (primarily melee, some ranged), Barbarian adjustments again (melee)
    • Update 40: Wood Elf (somewhat neutral)
    • Update 41: Bard revamp (melee/caster), Eldritch Knight (caster/melee), Spell Additions (caster)
    • Post-U41: Inquisitive (ranged), Tiefling (mostly caster), Tiefling Scoundrel


    *yes, I know I'm missing some smaller stuff. Painting in some broad strokes here. It's the weekend.

    Ultimately: In the last several years we've had a lot of updates to Melee trees and features, and have been working on balance in the melee ecosystem a lot. We like melees and tanks. We did a lot of work on them. A LOT of work. Literally thousands of hours of work to make melees and tanks better. While it's still not perfect, and we're going to continue adding melee-centric features and making adjustments to melees in the future, melees have gotten broader and larger love in the last few years than casters and ranged characters; we need to also be adding new features and making adjustments there too.
    Really?

    Lets go:

    Update 22: Light melee.

    Update 23:
    Armor up > nerfed,
    Kotc > now near useless,
    Sacred/stalwart defender not stack with Epic def fighting (hp),
    Vanguard > are u kidding right? 1 sec cooldown and "fix" to core 6,
    Harper > melee? only for int hit/dmg.

    Update 24: barb ok.

    Update 25: Light melee.

    Update 28: Light melee.

    Update 31: Fighter > nerfs (power surge, one cut?).

    Update 33: Light melee.

    Update 36: Ok.

    Update 37: vistany can be light/heavy, but i never saw a heavy double dagger build.

    Update 38: Ok.

    Update 39: falconry > maybe heavy melee with cleric? need test. I only see monks with birds atm (barb cleric wolf, and fvs?). Barb and warpriest ok.

    Update 41: Bard, ek ok.

    All heavy melee (heavy armor + shield) > nerfed.
    Last edited by Ballrus; 03-16-2019 at 10:59 AM.
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  13. #33
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    That's an interesting statement. Let's take a look at the last few years of updates to evaluate it:
    • Update 22: Added Swashbuckler, a primarily-melee tree with some thrown weapon support
      a jack of all trades class that due to swashbuckling was the flavor of the month, had the best cc and fastest attacks backed up by crit mods, still not a heavy melee, more like a light glass jawwed out of place class.
    • Update 23: Armor Up, an armor pass meant primarily to help heavy-armor and shield-using melees survive. Also, KOTC (primarily melee) improvements, Sacred Defender (primarily used by melee) improvements, Stalwart Defender (primarily used by melee) improvements, and the new Vanguard (melee) tree. Also, Harper (a mix of melee, ranged, and caster utility). Boosts to add Melee Power to most of the Melee weapon style feats.

      A move because player complaints forced the devs hand, got nerfed and the stance's hp doesn't stack with epic def fighting, putting them back on the same level as all the other non tank melees.

      And really? boasting about +6 melee power for 3 feats? over a 2 caster feats giving a total of 225 spell power, years ago? casters that get up to a 1000+ spell-power these days? that's why you're beating your chest?

    • Update 24: Small buff to Caster druids, full revamp of Barbarian (melee) trees.
      at wich i told you that the dps was too low for the content we were running and were still paying the price for that, thanks.... i guess
    • Update 25: Adjustment to Crossbow mechanics (ranged), revamp to Mechanic tree (ranged), revamp to other two Rogue trees (melee and melee).
      so... light melee, not heavy, moving on.
    • Update 26: Warlock! A new Caster class. (caster x3)followed by 4 major nerfs, still, no heavy melee.
    • Update 27: No significant systems updates.
    • Update 28: Updates to Ranger trees (ranged, melee, ranged/melee hybrid)
      light melee, not heavy, again, moving on.
    • Update 29: Level cap increase
    • Update 30: Gnomes/Deep Gnomes (arguably caster), Arcanotech revamp (Caster)
    • Update 31: Fighter revamp (melee x2-3)
      wich got nerfed....
    • Update 32: No significant systems updates
    • Update 33: Monk revamp (primarily melee, some ranged)
      got nerfed back down later and is a light melee, not a heavy. most monks in the end game meta are ranged....
    • Update 34: Reaper
      wich the devs botched up by using an engine that is easy to abuse when ranged&instakill caster, doing a disservice to heavy melees (wich aren't tanks btw), the reaper trees complement casters far better then melees, they retain enough spellcasting dc's while heavy melees don't retain enough of their dps.
    • Update 35: Dragonborn (arguably caster), racial reincarnation
      caster indeed
    • Update 36: Battle Engineer revamp (melee/ranged)
      thanks to reaper, all the arties i saw were ranged, to abuse the engine and stay out of harms way.

    • Update 37ish: Vistani Knife Fighter (primarily melee, some ranged), Aasimar (relatively neutral), Aasimar Scourge (melee)
      vistany is only used by light, glass jawed 2wf melees in game, assimar is a cheap paladin add, i see it mostly used by some spell casters (for lay on hands in reaper) and tanks for the 10% hp and lay on hands, neither is a heavy melee.
    • Update 38: Renegade Mastermaker (relatively neutral to melee/ranged/caster)
      mostly melees, mostly used by tanks these days due to the broken nature of their stacking nature of their "racial hp"
    • Update 39: Beacon of Hope (caster), Falconry (melee/ranged), Warpriest/Warsoul (primarily melee, some ranged), Barbarian adjustments again (melee)
      falcon is used by wisdom based classes (to boost the falcon dc's, wich means the rare maul using cleric, monks and monchkers, none of wich are heavy melees) warpries/warsoul are a prc classes for pure spellcasters, the barb adjustment was weak (and it shows in reaper).
    • Update 40: Wood Elf (somewhat neutral)
    • Update 41: Bard revamp (melee/caster), Eldritch Knight (caster/melee), Spell Additions (caster)
      i still see no melee bards in the game, must be a reaper thing, anyways, a bard is a light melee, not a heavy, the same goes for a wizard, it's not a heavy melee class.
    • Post-U41: Inquisitive (ranged), Tiefling (mostly caster), Tiefling Scoundrel


    *yes, I know I'm missing some smaller stuff. Painting in some broad strokes here. It's the weekend.

    Ultimately: In the last several years we've had a lot of updates to Melee trees and features, and have been working on balance in the melee ecosystem a lot. We like melees and tanks. We did a lot of work on them. A LOT of work. Literally thousands of hours of work to make melees and tanks better.
    it hardly shows, most tanks have to multi-class to get in multiple stacking sources of the shield/armor % multiplier, wizards 10% ac fighters/paladins prr/mrr, the 20% hp from artificer because it's classified as a racial bonus, etc, while heavy melees are suck in a role of tag along where casters and ranged toons cc, instakill and outd ps a heavy melee and bring him along for boss dps, where a ranged toon kites the boss and the heavy melee is forced to stab bosses in the back

    While it's still not perfect,


    it's about time it got fixed


    and we're going to continue adding melee-centric features and making adjustments to melees in the future, melees have gotten broader and larger love in the last few years than casters and ranged characters; we need to also be adding new features and making adjustments there too.
    Heavy Melees (the thing i was talking about, not all the squishy light melee ones you bring up), have been on the low end of the spectrum and it shows, other, more ranged focused builds stomped all over EE content when the cap was raised to 25, while heavy melees were 1-3 shoted all over the place.
    it improved after the player outcry led to the armor up update but worsened with every update where mobs were given insane amounts of hp and dps , leading to people reaching for ranged& instakill buils, not heavy melee dps builds. Reaper was another turning point, causing people to reach more and more for reaper ready build, aka not heavy melees.
    It's this stubborn shortsightedness that thinks adding hp and dps to mobs will make the game harder. the players respond with insta-kills and ranged attacks to avoid it and the players who like to trade blows and come out on top suffer.
    The out cry on the forum led to the armor up update, advice from dedicated heavy melee players is often ignored and often caster classes get access to melee options, while classes, designed for heavy melee can't handle their job, trading blows and kill mobs and stay alive.

    I rather see changes to heavy melee classes, to the point they can kill stuff (without it being held or otherwise cc-ed)by trading blows,
    I rather see the Lay waste DC fixed,
    I rather see the melee reaper trees fixed,
    i rather see the mrr on armor fixed,
    I rather see the broken stats that are important to melees fixed (resistance bonus to saves was broken up into 3 different saves, sheltering broken up into mrr and prr, etc i get it that gearing should be a hard choice but as a heavy melee, you're often the first in the room and the first to be targeted requiting all these stats and saves to up to par, besides gear that adds damage),

    I rather see dwarfs fixed, they get con to damage but not to hit???
    I rather see a heavy str based race, like half ogre or half giant,
    Fixes to barb dps (not instakills, dps!) (seriously, why do rangers get up to a 100k damage on a crit with an arrow and fire those from a safe spot and in a far higher rate then a heavy melee can swing a weapon? Especially when a pure barbarians to give up so much to melee, no spell-casting and no clickies during rage),
    I rather see 2hf fixed, high reaper mode destroys the aoe damage,
    I rather see double strike fixed on cleave like attacks,
    Edit, not to forget the disparity between melee power and spell power, guess wich one goes over 1k?

    i could go on for a while but after these many years, i feel like i'm talking to a brick wall.
    I'm glad that at least a few other players are becoming more vocal about this issue.
    Thanks Ballruss for chiming in.

    I know that the pen and paper(p&p) version of D&D, especially 3.0/3,5 this game was originally was based upon, melees were pretty poorly balanced too, if 2 players with just a players handbook rolled up a lv 20 fighter and wizard for a few rounds of pvp, my money would be on the wizard every time, especially if there was time to prep. Players that loved melees had to convince their gm to allow splat books to make something of their melee.
    Back in the day, when it came to melee in p&p, the only good question was CoDzilla, CoD aka, cleric or druid.
    So i understand where some of the devs come from when it comes to melees but we, your paying customers, (that you have been loosing left right and center) are getting fed up with the idiotic amount of hp and dps on mobs, if i wanted to play that game, i would have booted up aion or WoW, they are far better at this then ddo.

    To be honest, this constant attitude towards heavy melees, the week of downtime, the reaper problems, the lag, the auto-closing of tickets, Your hand waving of the problem steel, etc, i have a bunch of people on my server seriously questioning whether sharn is a reasonable purchase, they are asking themselves who they will play with and whether they can play the builds they like to play in that content. What use is is spending that kind of money only to find out you get denied access to raids because they are the wrong kind of build?
    Last edited by lyrecono; 03-17-2019 at 02:54 PM. Reason: typo

  14. #34
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    Balruss, i just saw your post on the frontpage, i agree with you both,

    2hf needs an overhaul and (non s&b tanks) medium and heavy armor users need a boost, reaper is a mess atm.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    That's an interesting statement. Let's take a look at the last few years of updates to evaluate it:
    • Update 22: Added Swashbuckler, a primarily-melee tree with some thrown weapon support
    • Update 23: Armor Up, an armor pass meant primarily to help heavy-armor and shield-using melees survive. Also, KOTC (primarily melee) improvements, Sacred Defender (primarily used by melee) improvements, Stalwart Defender (primarily used by melee) improvements, and the new Vanguard (melee) tree. Also, Harper (a mix of melee, ranged, and caster utility). Boosts to add Melee Power to most of the Melee weapon style feats.
    • Update 24: Small buff to Caster druids, full revamp of Barbarian (melee) trees.
    • Update 25: Adjustment to Crossbow mechanics (ranged), revamp to Mechanic tree (ranged), revamp to other two Rogue trees (melee and melee).
    • Update 26: Warlock! A new Caster class. (caster x3)
    • Update 27: No significant systems updates.
    • Update 28: Updates to Ranger trees (ranged, melee, ranged/melee hybrid)
    • Update 29: Level cap increase
    • Update 30: Gnomes/Deep Gnomes (arguably caster), Arcanotech revamp (Caster)
    • Update 31: Fighter revamp (melee x2-3)
    • Update 32: No significant systems updates
    • Update 33: Monk revamp (primarily melee, some ranged)
    • Update 34: Reaper
    • Update 35: Dragonborn (arguably caster), racial reincarnation
    • Update 36: Battle Engineer revamp (melee/ranged)
    • Update 37ish: Vistani Knife Fighter (primarily melee, some ranged), Aasimar (relatively neutral), Aasimar Scourge (melee)
    • Update 38: Renegade Mastermaker (relatively neutral to melee/ranged/caster)
    • Update 39: Beacon of Hope (caster), Falconry (melee/ranged), Warpriest/Warsoul (primarily melee, some ranged), Barbarian adjustments again (melee)
    • Update 40: Wood Elf (somewhat neutral)
    • Update 41: Bard revamp (melee/caster), Eldritch Knight (caster/melee), Spell Additions (caster)
    • Post-U41: Inquisitive (ranged), Tiefling (mostly caster), Tiefling Scoundrel


    *yes, I know I'm missing some smaller stuff. Painting in some broad strokes here. It's the weekend.

    Ultimately: In the last several years we've had a lot of updates to Melee trees and features, and have been working on balance in the melee ecosystem a lot. We like melees and tanks. We did a lot of work on them. A LOT of work. Literally thousands of hours of work to make melees and tanks better. While it's still not perfect, and we're going to continue adding melee-centric features and making adjustments to melees in the future, melees have gotten broader and larger love in the last few years than casters and ranged characters; we need to also be adding new features and making adjustments there too.
    Dear Steelstar.

    I would just like to mention one thing. We do feel that the melee builds have been a bit more useful in quests however, when we consider reaper difficulty, I would like to point out that when running solo, melee's cannot do anything beyond r1, maybe r2 if it is a strong build. Casters can handle much higher difficulty content (r4-5, sometimes r10) solo. The way that I see this is that still, many players run solo and there is still a big gap how the casters and melees deal with it. I don't want to have the DC casters nerfed but it really feels that melees in R10 can do literally **** without someone else casting/helping while the casters can complete r10 quests in epic/legendary without too much sweat. Don't you think that shouldn't happen? Not to mention that many players got so much reaper xp due to your overlooking of quests like Amber temple and some others... Fix it, be fair to everyone.

    Cheers,

    Malusny

  16. #36
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    I also vote to keep the small horns. While some of the large horns might work for me I think the traditional small horns should be kept. Heck, all the NPC tieflings we have right now use the small horns.

  17. #37
    Uber Completionist kain741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malusny View Post
    Dear Steelstar.

    I would just like to mention one thing. We do feel that the melee builds have been a bit more useful in quests however, when we consider reaper difficulty, I would like to point out that when running solo, melee's cannot do anything beyond r1, maybe r2 if it is a strong build. Casters can handle much higher difficulty content (r4-5, sometimes r10) solo. The way that I see this is that still, many players run solo and there is still a big gap how the casters and melees deal with it. I don't want to have the DC casters nerfed but it really feels that melees in R10 can do literally **** without someone else casting/helping while the casters can complete r10 quests in epic/legendary without too much sweat. Don't you think that shouldn't happen? Not to mention that many players got so much reaper xp due to your overlooking of quests like Amber temple and some others... Fix it, be fair to everyone.

    Cheers,

    Malusny
    I would strongly argue that R2 is not the cap for a strong well built melee. That realistic cap is somewhere closer to R6/7 for strong well built toons. Tweaks to the way charm works will bring DC casters down below that number in the near future so I wouldn't say melee is struggling. Also, keep in mind reaper is not intended to be a solo difficulty so if you can solo on R2 then you should be happy...you have exceeded the expectation of the devs.
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  18. #38
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kain741 View Post
    I would strongly argue that R2 is not the cap for a strong well built melee. That realistic cap is somewhere closer to R6/7 for strong well built toons. Tweaks to the way charm works will bring DC casters down below that number in the near future so I wouldn't say melee is struggling. Also, keep in mind reaper is not intended to be a solo difficulty so if you can solo on R2 then you should be happy...you have exceeded the expectation of the devs.
    For those emerging from under a rock, the issue of late has been the engine and the devs poor attempt to ballance difficulty .
    For years, the standard way for devs to increase the difficulty has been to add more mobs and give them more hp and dps, in my neck of the woods, the standard player reaction is to abuse the poor excuse for a game ai, by going ranged dps and or dc based instakills.

    When the reaper debuffs apply, melees get hit even harder and s by virtue of keeping their distance, casters and ranged dps are virtually scot free.

    And its here where the issue arrises.
    As a heavy melee, people have worked hard to gain hp and defences (ac, prr,mrr but also hamp, work that is basically useles unless you're a heavy tank, in high reaper quests, you might as well not bother, this is why a lot of endgame players see reaper as this eleborate game of tag, instakill or furry shot it before it gets near.

    The only exeptions are raids where a tank(or 2 in kt ) where there are also melees welcome.

    And a heavy melee has to sacrifice a lot to do their job, its frustrating to see all those years of gaining power is turned into a massive waste of time. No longer can heavy melees trade blows in the higher dificulties, unlike equally build casters.
    Self healing (due to a lack of healers) doesn't work,
    Cc dc's are broken (lay waste?) Or unworkeble in a lot situations because unlike casters, heavy melees lack the cc options of a caster. Unlike a caster, a melee isn't provided with the tools to compensate the reaper debuff, not that standing next to a r10 mob trying to get a cc combat move off will end well.
    Wich means that an entire playstyle lags behind, the players that build for the endgame reaper meta were raking in the reaper exp and gaining power in a incredible speed. And not just by charms, as you suggested will even things out
    What is a melee to do? Sit on his hands the entire quest or worse, get denied access to high reaper parties because the rest of the party deems a heavy melee playstyle as useless? Tr into a ranged toon? An instakill caster, go with the flow?

    What happens a year down the line? The end game reaper farmers already past a 100 reaper points on their main, will we see "post your 100reaper point picture" lfms? Reaper Raiding guilds keeping lists of players, their toons and their reaper points, the same way they kept track of past lives and dc's in the past?

    F that, i rather have the devs own up to their mistakes and fix the long list of issues before the gap is too wide.

    Tldr

    Some playstyles can zerg through high reaper while other playstyles can't.

  19. #39
    Uber Completionist kain741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    And its here where the issue arrises.
    As a heavy melee, people have worked hard to gain hp and defences (ac, prr,mrr but also hamp, work that is basically useles unless you're a heavy tank, in high reaper quests, you might as well not bother, this is why a lot of endgame players see reaper as this eleborate game of tag, instakill or furry shot it before it gets near.
    A lot may see it that way, but some do not. There are a lot of successful melee toons that successfully navigate high skull reaper. I've seen it, i've done it, i know it's possible. You picked a broken CC method...did you know there are others that work just fine? Why does fury shot/insta killing work so well? Because you kill them before they kill you. The same approach works for melee. Bring your working CC, get your helpless damage, move on to the next victim. Is it expected that everybody will have the PLs, skill and gear to execute this on high skulls? Of course not, that is why there are many other difficulties. I'm sorry the build you are playing with has not properly adopted to do something you want it to but cannot. Continue to adapt your build or don't try to solo r7 on your melee. The idea is that it is supposed to be hard and those that stand within the range of tough mobs on high skulls will pay the price if they do not use tactics, CC and careful planning while removing the threat quickly.
    ZERG
    Whynnd | Xantroos | Cyridven | Justys

  20. #40
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kain741 View Post
    A lot may see it that way, but some do not. There are a lot of successful melee toons that successfully navigate high skull reaper. I've seen it, i've done it, i know it's possible. You picked a broken CC method...did you know there are others that work just fine? Why does fury shot/insta killing work so well? Because you kill them before they kill you. The same approach works for melee. Bring your working CC, get your helpless damage, move on to the next victim. Is it expected that everybody will have the PLs, skill and gear to execute this on high skulls? Of course not, that is why there are many other difficulties. I'm sorry the build you are playing with has not properly adopted to do something you want it to but cannot. Continue to adapt your build or don't try to solo r7 on your melee. The idea is that it is supposed to be hard and those that stand within the range of tough mobs on high skulls will pay the price if they do not use tactics, CC and careful planning while removing the threat quickly.
    Cute, but when that mabar dodge clicky and displacement clicky runs out, that heavy melee is dead, a ranger is safely shooting arrows in a faster pace (thanks to doublestrike being broken on a lot of cleave like attacks).
    And thats the entire issue, can't affort to get hit and that's the entire basis for heavy melees to have hp and defences, to trade blows, not getting hit is the best defence (instead of soaking up the damage), hence high reaper quests are turned into a game of tag in my neck of the woods. A lot of the high reaper farmers understand that meta and run the right builds (aka, ranged and casters) to zerg these quest, the same way they did on EE years ago, prior to armor up
    Also, for 2hf, furry is terrible, it recharges much slower on a 2hf toon than on a ranged toon, again due to the far higher rate of attacking. I don't understand anyway, i have shot bows, it requires concentration, represented by feats like presision, how come toons with a bow can use fury to begin with? They get really angry an pull back a bowstring even further?
    Isn't this a case of a ED designed for melee being used more by ranged toons?
    If i were a dev i would fix all the double strike issues 2hf has so the items my team has litered the loot tables with become more usefull, make fury only work with melee, make Shiradi Champion usefull for rangd characters, add x-bow stuff in shadow dancer, make rangers chaotic, add the same amount of damage to enemy arrows that melee mobs have and have them target ranged and casters first at all times.

    tw, a lot of the solo r7+ barb videos i have seen are done in quest with easy dc trash mobs(very susceptible to dire charge) in quests like grim&baret

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