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  1. #21
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    cool builds from this. 10 rogue / 6 ranger / 4 arti, seems logical

    I don't think you have enough AP for Inquisitor Capstone, Harper (KTA + int to damage), Endless Fusilade, and Sniper shot.
    I think you're going to have to drop one of these things.

    I would probably drop fusilade, but I can't be sure.
    Last edited by Sam-u-r-eye; 02-26-2019 at 09:15 PM.
    You can run level cap quests for epic xp, but you can't run non-level cap quests for RXP when you're capped.
    r10 @ 30 stuff, sorc, monk,Ghallanda

  2. #22
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    Looks like a lot of nice thoughts went into this.

    Game-breaking? No. Which is good; looks like something fun to play.

    Neat to see Drow with hand-held crossbow animation make it to DDO!
    Last edited by Sho-sa; 02-27-2019 at 02:17 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye View Post
    cool builds from this. 10 rogue / 6 ranger / 4 arti, seems logical

    I don't think you have enough AP for Inquisitor Capstone, Harper (KTA + int to damage), Endless Fusilade, and Sniper shot.
    I think you're going to have to drop one of these things.

    I would probably drop fusilade, but I can't be sure.
    Inquisitive has No Holds Barred, which looks the same as fusilade, so you could drop it.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffWatson View Post
    Two shots is well behind a repeaters three shots unless you have 100% doublestrike; Great Crossbows have much higher base damage and criticals.
    Incorrect. You are ignoring the slightly longer reload animation between shots on a repeater, as well as the alacrity disparity granted by the 30% boost to non-repeaters. The point of equality is much closer than you think, and since fusillade is disproportionately good at speeding up non-repeating crossbows as opposed to repeaters, the gap closes even further. As for the great crossbows, ratcatcher and epic storm really do beg to differ.
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  5. #25
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    As a Human in the Shadow form from shadowdancer, it looks like you're riding a scooter if you run while shooting. Your left leg doesn't seem to agree that you're in shadow form.

    Also, I miss the "plink" sound using the inquisitive tree that you get with other crossbows.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    For the moment (while we are still looking at balance), it is 100% effective in each hand.
    If this holds, can you PLEASE reconsider the double shot penalty on RXBs. A dps multiplier works the same regardless of ROF. This tree would let non-rxb achieve a higher potential ROF, with full DS and Ranged Speed working better for nrxb than rxb at the upper end.

    Honestly this whole tree seems like a giant middle finger to artis...it's giving away the best parts of ranged arti, and making them better. I really fear artis will become obsolete when you can achieve higher dps, for less opportunity cost. High rof, summon bolts, fusillade, and a huge pool of on hit alignment die to boot? What good is arti now except maybe /2 for RA and trapping? Inqui + Harper = instant pocket arti for any class. Rogue cleric war domain. Pure wiz EK. There's a lot of ways you can leverage the rof in ways that artis can't because of rxb restrictions or class levels spent in arti.

    Nrxb definitely needed some love but please don't just trade one obsolete weapon class for another. Create some useful role space for both rxb and nrxb.

    Also why would anyone take anything but Jaded? Clear best choice.
    Last edited by droid327; 02-26-2019 at 09:48 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hipparan View Post
    also, i miss the "plink" sound using the inquisitive tree that you get with other crossbows.
    thank god the plink is gone.

    Omg my ears are not being attackedd
    You can run level cap quests for epic xp, but you can't run non-level cap quests for RXP when you're capped.
    r10 @ 30 stuff, sorc, monk,Ghallanda

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lencrennis View Post
    Incorrect. You are ignoring the slightly longer reload animation between shots on a repeater, as well as the alacrity disparity granted by the 30% boost to non-repeaters. The point of equality is much closer than you think, and since fusillade is disproportionately good at speeding up non-repeating crossbows as opposed to repeaters, the gap closes even further. As for the great crossbows, ratcatcher and epic storm really do beg to differ.
    Ratcatcher is a good one for leveling, Epic Storm... well, Epic Ring of Spell Storing. Also currently no decent crossbows in the upper echelons of the levels to outperform legendary RXBs and GXBs, thought I might expect that to change with Sharn even if they don't come with a x3.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by askrj1 View Post
    Ratcatcher is a good one for leveling, Epic Storm... well, Epic Ring of Spell Storing. Also currently no decent crossbows in the upper echelons of the levels to outperform legendary RXBs and GXBs, thought I might expect that to change with Sharn even if they don't come with a x3.
    I expect it as well, but by the time the Ravenloft gear and such starts to light up, the 200% doubleshot effect is pulling you so far away from great crossbows that you're winning in the plinking contest even if you do 70-75% the damage of the great crossbow per shot. Heavy sneak builds (and the Law dice are just better Sneak dice) will be reveling in this stuff.
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  10. #30
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    Love the look/feel of this idea, neat! I kinda thought throwers (non-shuri of course) could use some 'double' type stance to bring 'em up to speed, but by the same merit I suppose non-repeats/greats have fallen out of style just the same, so!

    First impression? My biggest 'eh' as far as the visuals is that the bolts fire from the character's center. They really need to shoot from the left and right hand respectively OR the animation should change so that the character brings each hand crossbow to the center and fires them, I think this alone would help a bunch with the 'look' and aesthetic. As is on a female dragonborn she just kinda shoots forwards and bolts fly inexplicably from her mid-chest area. Also firing while moving has a kind've slide footlock thing going on, at present.

    I love the whole law/chaos thing, don't see much of that as a damage type/focus, and all the socia/diplomacy focuses seem pretty neat. I like the direction these universal trees have been going.

  11. #31

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    Is there any chance you guys would add in a "Use Dex for damage bonus" enhancement somewhere in the tree? It would be nice to finally have that option for crossbows *somewhere* in the game.
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  12. #32
    Dual-Wielder of Halflings dozkal-mo's Avatar
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    Made an Arti 14/Rogue 6

    Some inquisitive, mostly mechanic and Battle Engineer. Kinda crazy DPS, but would have to test in Reaper.

    Female Drow with the "dual-wield" heavy crossbow is showing a T Pose when she's not attacking or with auto-attack on.

    You weren't kidding about rune-arms looking super wonky in usage when combined with dual heavies.
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  13. #33
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    Did some more thinking about shots per second rxb vs nrxb with double shot...

    Rxb does 3 + x shots per cycle where x is your DS score. Nrxb does 2+2x. That puts the break even at 100% DS. That's ignoring the faster attack time for nrxb too though. Between gear, multiple enhancement options, EPLs etc you can probably get past that break even point where rxbs lose their sole advantage
    Last edited by droid327; 02-27-2019 at 01:39 AM.

  14. #34
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    "Dual Shooter While you have a Light or Heavy (non-repeating) Crossbow equipped, you instead fight with a Hand Crossbow in each hand, with each mimicking the damage and effects of your equipped Crossbow. +1 to Attack and Damage with Light and Heavy (non-repeating) crossbows."

    Is this just some goofy animation or does it actually mean that we shoot twice as much?
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  15. #35
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    I like the idea of this not so much because I'm into dual-crossbows, but that it seems like it could mean that we might actually (gasp) get a DOUBLE THROW option at some point, which could have the potential to make non-shuriken thrown weapons VIABLE.

    I do like this idea of making light and heavy crossbows non-pointless, though. They've been pretty much a joke weapon since I started playing. So that right there is a good thing.

    Conjure Bolts as an SLA that costs spell points seems kinda rude because it's hard on classes that don't get native spell points (rogue). It's not insurmountable, but this early in planning why not just remove the SP cost?

    I like that Law on your Side scales and that the cores boost it, however I think it should scale with alignment spellpower instead of ranged power--like other similar abilities such as Arcane Archer, Eldritch Knight, etc. Imbues like this that stack with melee/ranged power have generally been SIGNIFICANTLY underpowered even WITH a multiplier, whereas the ones that stack with spellpower have generally been much closer to "just right". Keeping it consistent may be the key to keeping it BALANCED without having to constantly tweak the numbers.

    I'd suggest this would also be a great time to introduce a new deity line that gets Crossbow as their favored weapon. Or, you could add that as an ability to this tree--you can treat Crossbow as your Deity Favored Weapon IF you are lawful-aligned. HA! Wait, there it is. I'd suggest changing Arcane Inquisition to be "you treat crossbows as implements". Also, Swashbuckle with a crossbow? That seems . . . okay, that might get interesting. I might have to try that. While you're at it, maybe consider removing the "melee weapon" limitation from shillelagh.

    Why does Observation only work with Diplomacy? Also, the COOLDOWN on diplomacy is FIFTEEN seconds so how in the heck are you going to build up stacks of this? Unless you play a half-elf it's literally impossible because the cooldown on the ability is LONGER than the duration of the effect! Not to mention that using diplomacy has an interruptable "use" timer. There are precious few abilities in the game that TRIGGER a diplomacy check, and it says NOTHING about those ALSO working. Hit the Streets doesn't help because IT has a MINUTE cooldown. And Ask Questions First is further uselessness because 10% of 15 is 1.5, which still doesn't bring it down under the 12 second duration. :P

    This entire diplomacy thing seems poorly-thought-out. It's a neat IDEA, but you need to work out the timing issues to make it something other than a major annoyance.

    Okay, say you take this tree on an artificer and equip a runearm and then equip a light or heavy crossbow . . . what happens? Does it spit the rune arm out of the slot its in? Do you equip the crossbow as a regular crossbow? Does the universe get sucked into a singularity?

    And what happens with a sentient gem on your crossbow?

    The main problem I see with this tree is that there doesn't appear to be any way to get stat-to-damage in the tree itself, and crossbows do not inherently add ANY stat-to-damage. This is a MAJOR limitation even with all the other damage-boosting stuff. Not that you can't pick up stat-to-damage elsewhere, but the thing is that it's going to completely rule out any build that DOESN'T grant this and make the trees where you can pick up off-stats for damage EVEN MORE powerful than they already are. My suggestion would be to put dex-for-damage with crossbows somewhere in the tree.

    Frankly, the more I look at this tree the more it looks like it COMPLETELY craps on Battle Engineer for ranged artificers AND on Mechanic for ranged rogues! The bard synergy will probably make this the Be All End All for bards, too! Oh, AND it blows warpriest completely out of the water for Clerics AND favored souls! WELCOME TO THE CROSSBOW-OCALPYSE. Now EVERYONE can play the same kind of weird hybrid build I've been doing on my arti, with BETTER damage AND a better spell selection! You get access to WAY more cool stuff with this tree than you do in Battle Engineer, and NONE of the abilities FORCE you to go dual-crossbows. The way it's looking, this tree will be MUCH more powerful than crossbow/runearm for artificers. I'm going to have to go test it.

    At a minimum, if the tree stays like this I'd say you need to go ahead and remove the 1/3 doubleshot limitation for repeating crossbows. And forget bows. Bows are dead. They were almost dead before but now they're REALLY dead. Why fight your ass off to get to 70% doubleshot when you can get guaranteed two shots on ANY class with, probably, BETTER firing speed! Does it work with fury of the wild and doubleshot?! We're gonna find out!

    You guys need to fix Manyshot to not be a 20 second thing any more and just make it an always-on toggle to even have a CHANCE at resurrecting bows at this point.

    Honestly, I think this would be better as a dual-thrower tree (everything except shuriken), but that ship has probably sailed.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 02-27-2019 at 04:19 AM.

  16. #36
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    Wizard 18-20 ek + inquisitive? Lotta dice

  17. #37
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    The double-firing animation looks goofy. It should animate as shooting first one then the other in rapid succession, not both at once (if this can be changed in time).

  18. #38
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    After testing:

    It's SO much more powerful than Battle Engineer on my crossbow arti it's not even funny. Yes, even without firing my runearm. I almost always get at least 3 hits per shot, I attack faster than with the crossbow (and I haven't got the Rapid Shot feat, I should go pick that up since I don't need Watchful Eye any more). I get another 200 damage imbue to go with my 200 electric damage. Oh, and unlike with a repeater, if you use fury of the wild you get the +400% damage to BOTH crossbow hits. So it's EXTREMELY fury-fusilade friendly and results in absolutely LUDICROUS levels of damage.

    Plus, I'm not locked in to 20 arti in order to get the BE capstone any more. Yeah, I lose 2 int overall for making the switch, but I gain 2 in all other stats, and a TON of special abilities. I can easily throw those other 2 levels in, say, rogue, or fighter for more action boosts . . .

    Don't get me wrong, I like the tree, I actually think it's a very cool idea, but OMG WHAT HAVE YOU DONE. YOU HAVE CREATED A MONSTER.

  19. #39
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    For pity's sake why are there 3 ranks on conjure bolts? Who in their right mind is gonna drop 2 action points to get a SLIGHTLY CHEAPER VERSION of CONJURE BOLTS?

  20. #40
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    Yeah, just doing my current arti build and investing in Inquisitive instead of Battle Engineer (no other changes, and I'm not loaded for max damage by any means), my DPS went from 4.5k to 5.6k. And that's going from using the Renegade Champion set with an all-ranged-power sentient gem slotted to using a plain old Morninglord's heavy crossbow with NO sentient stuff slotted. AND I was firing my runearm while DPSing with the repeater and battle engineer.

    Granted, SOME of that is because the Shoot First dot is just INSANE, 2-3k damage per tick on my medium-damage non-blitz build. On a better, dps-oriented build, it becomes 6-7k PER. TICK.

    The damage is REALLY HIGH in this tree. Like competitive with top melee dps high. My blitzing friend was pulling down about 15k dps.

    The worst part is that I like the tree, it just destroys so many OTHER trees into total irrelevancy.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 02-27-2019 at 06:58 AM.

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