Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    35

    Default Unarmed Monk-no handwraps

    I haven't played in a number of months and never reallly played monk ever (max lvl 9 maybe 8 years ago) so I was going to play around with falconry and wis monks. So the +w monk nerf means you can't be unarmed no matter what? I started lvl 4 to test thinking I had wraps in bank (I didn't, duh me) and noticed my dam was 1-3 with no wis bonus from falcon. Once I looted some wraps it went to 1-6 + 8 so monks with weapons ok, but it felt so weird to me having a monk that can't hit with fists.

  2. #2
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    My place
    Posts
    975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hombokai View Post
    I haven't played in a number of months and never reallly played monk ever (max lvl 9 maybe 8 years ago) so I was going to play around with falconry and wis monks. So the +w monk nerf means you can't be unarmed no matter what? I started lvl 4 to test thinking I had wraps in bank (I didn't, duh me) and noticed my dam was 1-3 with no wis bonus from falcon. Once I looted some wraps it went to 1-6 + 8 so monks with weapons ok, but it felt so weird to me having a monk that can't hit with fists.
    No stat alteration ever worked with unarmed, and it took the weapon flagging of wraps to fix that. This means that no matter what, actual unarmed fighting is locked to STR for damage.

    One thing I did not realize, and just confirmed, is that the removal of unarmed die scaling was indeed an utter deletion of the core class feature of Monk unarmed die. So you don't even get 1d6 unarmed let alone the scaling... so Monks are fighting with 1d3 rather than the 1d6 they should have.

    That, coupled with the fact that almost no enhancements or abilities/feats work with fully unarmed anymore means that fighting with your fists as a stop gap of broken weapons or low level running is truly dead.

    I do hope that they consider this a glitch and fix it... but then I also consider the whole deletion of a class feature something that needs to be fixed. The "10% nerf" goal at cap should have been done in an entirely different way.
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    No stat alteration ever worked with unarmed, and it took the weapon flagging of wraps to fix that. This means that no matter what, actual unarmed fighting is locked to STR for damage.

    One thing I did not realize, and just confirmed, is that the removal of unarmed die scaling was indeed an utter deletion of the core class feature of Monk unarmed die. So you don't even get 1d6 unarmed let alone the scaling... so Monks are fighting with 1d3 rather than the 1d6 they should have.

    That, coupled with the fact that almost no enhancements or abilities/feats work with fully unarmed anymore means that fighting with your fists as a stop gap of broken weapons or low level running is truly dead.

    I do hope that they consider this a glitch and fix it... but then I also consider the whole deletion of a class feature something that needs to be fixed. The "10% nerf" goal at cap should have been done in an entirely different way.
    What are you talking about unarmed is locked to strength for damage? Falconry or even ninja spy let you use wisdom/dex to hit and dmg respectively

  4. #4
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    My place
    Posts
    975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flute136 View Post
    What are you talking about unarmed is locked to strength for damage? Falconry or even ninja spy let you use wisdom/dex to hit and dmg respectively
    Unarmed is locked as nothing can affect its stats for damage. HANDWRAPS, however, are not locked. Unarmed may be used interchangeably with handwrap combat in the game, but for the purpose of this post, the user was referring to unarmed as having absolutely no weapon equipped.
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

  5. #5
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Look up, way up, in space.
    Posts
    970

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    No stat alteration ever worked with unarmed, and it took the weapon flagging of wraps to fix that. This means that no matter what, actual unarmed fighting is locked to STR for damage.

    One thing I did not realize, and just confirmed, is that the removal of unarmed die scaling was indeed an utter deletion of the core class feature of Monk unarmed die. So you don't even get 1d6 unarmed let alone the scaling... so Monks are fighting with 1d3 rather than the 1d6 they should have.

    That, coupled with the fact that almost no enhancements or abilities/feats work with fully unarmed anymore means that fighting with your fists as a stop gap of broken weapons or low level running is truly dead.

    I do hope that they consider this a glitch and fix it... but then I also consider the whole deletion of a class feature something that needs to be fixed. The "10% nerf" goal at cap should have been done in an entirely different way.
    Since wraps is now considered a weapon does that mean necro vampire and drow poison now works with wraps?

  6. #6
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    My place
    Posts
    975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NemesisAlien View Post
    Since wraps is now considered a weapon does that mean necro vampire and drow poison now works with wraps?
    Yes. Though Ninja Poison still does not even with Pierce wraps like Ivy or slashing from Vorpal Strikes. Though I'd put Drow pretty far down the list of optimal Monk races.
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

  7. #7
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    Yes. Though Ninja Poison still does not even with Pierce wraps like Ivy or slashing from Vorpal Strikes. Though I'd put Drow pretty far down the list of optimal Monk races.
    Can anyone confirm or deny something? I recall rolling a 4 drow ninja just to compare when I was trying in vain to make a vistani dagger thrower for heroic levelling (forget it unless you like pulling teeth) and I recall I got 3x hits with shurikens with no doubleshot items as the drow bonus and the ninja bonus both worked for #of throws. I can't even look at the ddowiki for drow as the race link seems to get 500 internal server error at this post time.

  8. #8
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    Unarmed is locked as nothing can affect its stats for damage. HANDWRAPS, however, are not locked. Unarmed may be used interchangeably with handwrap combat in the game, but for the purpose of this post, the user was referring to unarmed as having absolutely no weapon equipped.
    Yes I didn't mean unarmed in game terms I meant unarmed as having nothing equipped. It's sad that monk is not a monk. You can't tell him, "Very good but brick don't hit back." since he can't break bricks anymore.

  9. #9
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    My place
    Posts
    975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hombokai View Post
    Can anyone confirm or deny something? I recall rolling a 4 drow ninja just to compare when I was trying in vain to make a vistani dagger thrower for heroic levelling (forget it unless you like pulling teeth) and I recall I got 3x hits with shurikens with no doubleshot items as the drow bonus and the ninja bonus both worked for #of throws. I can't even look at the ddowiki for drow as the race link seems to get 500 internal server error at this post time.
    I should have qualified my statement of Drow being a weaker choice for handwrap Monks. Drow do get Shuriken Expertise for free, which provide an extra shuri per throw based on DEX. That coupled with Ninja Spy's DEX based extra throw allows for up to 3 Shurikens per throw before counting any doubleshot. Shuriken Expertise is a selectable feat, however, and the IPS advantage + SA + Self healing of Halfling still places it as my favorite thrower race.

    Unfortunately throwing builds of any type are terrible for heroic leveling. So much of throwing speed is back loaded due to it being tied to BAB as well as Whirling Wrists being a key to taking throw rate out of the gutter. I really think that ability should become base and then the ED ability replaced, but that is an old discussion and off topic. Add in all other throwing weapons cannot compete against Shuri quantity. A weapon would have to be 3 or more orders of magnitude stronger than Shuri to compete with the attack spam that is massively bolstered by SA damage and static item increase values. No such throwers exist.
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

  10. #10
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Look up, way up, in space.
    Posts
    970

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    I should have qualified my statement of Drow being a weaker choice for handwrap Monks. Drow do get Shuriken Expertise for free, which provide an extra shuri per throw based on DEX. That coupled with Ninja Spy's DEX based extra throw allows for up to 3 Shurikens per throw before counting any doubleshot. Shuriken Expertise is a selectable feat, however, and the IPS advantage + SA + Self healing of Halfling still places it as my favorite thrower race.

    Unfortunately throwing builds of any type are terrible for heroic leveling. So much of throwing speed is back loaded due to it being tied to BAB as well as Whirling Wrists being a key to taking throw rate out of the gutter. I really think that ability should become base and then the ED ability replaced, but that is an old discussion and off topic. Add in all other throwing weapons cannot compete against Shuri quantity. A weapon would have to be 3 or more orders of magnitude stronger than Shuri to compete with the attack spam that is massively bolstered by SA damage and static item increase values. No such throwers exist.
    On the other hand (Handwrap joke) drow poison is much better then ninja poison...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload