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  1. #1
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    Default Raider Reward Weapon for Pure Barb

    Level 22 Barbarian, first life.
    Improved Two-handed fighting, Improved Critical: Slashing.

    Okay, here's what I have so far:

    Thunder-forged Greatsword with Ruby Augment of Good
    Vs. Undead: Mutineer's Blade (12-66 Bane damage, 3-18 Light Damage, Disruption)
    Vs. DR/Bludgeoning: The Banhammer (Vorpal vs. Undead, Constructs, and Outsiders)
    Vs. DR/Lawful, DR/Chaotic, or DR/Good: These are usually Outsiders, so The Banhammer
    Vs. DR/Piercing: Mutineer's Blade
    Vs. Oozes: Hoping to get Muck's Obliteration or Bone Crusher. Meanwhile, using The Banhammer; it's a named item, so damage it takes won't be permanent.
    Vs. Rust Monsters: Thunder-forged Greataxe. It's a named item, so damage it takes won't be permanent.
    Ranged: Spelltouched Shruiken. Note it has hidden powers, and character has Shuriken Expertise.

    I just reached Level 23, so I can open my Raider's Rewards box. There are three two-handed slashing weapons: Breach (falchion), Cleaver (greataxe), and Sireth (quarterstaff, that does slashing/piercing).

    So should I take one of those? Or something else?
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  2. #2
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawnvw View Post
    Level 22 Barbarian, first life.
    Improved Two-handed fighting, Improved Critical: Slashing.

    Okay, here's what I have so far:

    Thunder-forged Greatsword with Ruby Augment of Good
    Vs. Undead: Mutineer's Blade (12-66 Bane damage, 3-18 Light Damage, Disruption)
    Vs. DR/Bludgeoning: The Banhammer (Vorpal vs. Undead, Constructs, and Outsiders)
    Vs. DR/Lawful, DR/Chaotic, or DR/Good: These are usually Outsiders, so The Banhammer
    Vs. DR/Piercing: Mutineer's Blade
    Vs. Oozes: Hoping to get Muck's Obliteration or Bone Crusher. Meanwhile, using The Banhammer; it's a named item, so damage it takes won't be permanent.
    Vs. Rust Monsters: Thunder-forged Greataxe. It's a named item, so damage it takes won't be permanent.
    Ranged: Spelltouched Shruiken. Note it has hidden powers, and character has Shuriken Expertise.

    I just reached Level 23, so I can open my Raider's Rewards box. There are three two-handed slashing weapons: Breach (falchion), Cleaver (greataxe), and Sireth (quarterstaff, that does slashing/piercing).

    So should I take one of those? Or something else?
    Base the decision off what you think you will be playing a while from now imo. If you do like 2hander dps though. Don't make the same mistake i made, don't take the greataxe. Every new player sees the crits a greataxe can do and they think they are doing good dps. But in reality, greataxes have a **** critical profile, so they are ****
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawnvw View Post
    It's a named item, so damage it takes won't be permanent.
    Just chiming in: Named items can and do take permanent damage. The important part is binding. Bound items (BtA or BtC) don't take permanent damage, unbound items do. ML22 Thunder-Forged is unbound and indeed can take permanent damage.

  4. #4
    Community Member Annex's Avatar
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    Adding to what cru121 wrote, if you want to make sure your unbound Thunder-forged weapons never take permanent damage, take them to the Stone of Change and bind them. Otherwise, this may happen...

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  5. #5
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    When it comes to gear I'm a "Golf bag" approach person myself.

    Each of these items has a different utility. Look at what items you are currently using and ask yourself this question... What hole in my weapon selection do I have? DR Breaking, utility, Damage vs things that resist physical damage etc.
    Then look at each of these and determine which one fills that hole.

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Breach...Dividing_Blade
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Cleave...r_of_Suffering
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sireth,_Spear_of_the_Sky


    Now also keep in mind that each of these items will be Upgradable and Sentient Capable, so they can all be improved beyond what they currently have.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post

    Each of these items has a different utility. Look at what items you are currently using and ask yourself this question... What hole in my weapon selection do I have? DR Breaking, utility, Damage vs things that resist physical damage etc.
    Doesn't my current list cover all of that?

    That's not rhetorical; I really don't know. What's missing from what I have?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    Just chiming in: Named items can and do take permanent damage. The important part is binding. Bound items (BtA or BtC) don't take permanent damage, unbound items do. ML22 Thunder-Forged is unbound and indeed can take permanent damage.
    Goood save!
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Base the decision off what you think you will be playing a while from now imo.
    Like what? I've never gone this far into Epic before. What will I be fighting?



    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Every new player sees the crits a greataxe can do and they think they are doing good dps. But in reality, greataxes have a **** critical profile, so they are ****
    Can you explain how someone can "see the crits a greataxe can do" and not know it's a bad crit profile?
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    Just craft an Ooze and Rust Monster beater, it's easier.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawnvw View Post
    Like what? I've never gone this far into Epic before. What will I be fighting?
    I more so meant, what combat style you will be playing mostly. Do you like 2handed barbarian style more? Do you like rogue or monk staff style? Do you like throwers? Something else?



    Quote Originally Posted by shawnvw View Post
    Can you explain how someone can "see the crits a greataxe can do" and not know it's a bad crit profile?
    For example, A lot of people love using the Riftmaker https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Riftmaker . . . They see the 4x crit multiplier, and then get a 5x with fighter, and more with other things, see those crits that it puts out. But they don't consider the crit chance, or the actual over all DPS.

    I forget the actual math to figure out a crit profile, maybe another forumite knows it.
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  11. #11
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    Celestia is the only weapon from CITW that is still relevant. Mostly in mid to high reaper stuff when DR/- results in you doing 0 damage.


    Dont worry too much about breach or cleaver, just use a drow greataxe/maul or epic antique greataxe

    Sireth is kind of nice but staff builds are not. Maaaaaybe something one could use against DR/pierce enemies but i just whip out the celestia instead if really needed.

    Antipode is good though if you wanna go monk some time.

  12. #12
    Community Member Swimms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazanin View Post
    Celestia is the only weapon from CITW that is still relevant. Mostly in mid to high reaper stuff when DR/- results in you doing 0 damage.

    I disagree, the ability of CiTW weapons to host sentience makes them a decent choice for mid epic leveling on some builds (even more so given how easy they are to acquire if you have Raider's boxes). I have used Antipode, Pinion and Agony all with 5+ slot sentience gems to bridge the gap until level 28/29 items kick in.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    For example, A lot of people love using the Riftmaker https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Riftmaker . . . They see the 4x crit multiplier, and then get a 5x with fighter, and more with other things, see those crits that it puts out. But they don't consider the crit chance, or the actual over all DPS.

    I forget the actual math to figure out a crit profile, maybe another forumite knows it.
    In general terms, crit profile = crit chance * crit multiplier. This gives a percent of your base weapon damage and doesn't factor in bonuses like Seeker. As an example, here's a 18/2 Centered Kensai with Riftmaker (Barbarian is more complicated because different trees give different crit bonuses)

    Riftmaker: 20 x4

    Kensai: +1 multiplier (Strike with No Thought), +1 range (Keen Edge)
    Monk: +1 multiplier on 19-20 (Ultimate Fire Stance)
    Legendary Dreadnought: +1 multiplier on 19-20 (Devastating Critical), +1 multiplier on 19-20 (Headman's Chop)
    Feats: +1 range (Improved Crit), +1 multiplier on 19-20 (Overwhelming Crit)

    Total: +1 multiplier, +2 range, +4 additional multiplier on 19-20

    Profile = (crit chance up to a roll of 18)*(crit multiplier) + (crit chance on 19-20)*(crit multiplier + multiplier on 19-20)
    = 5% * 5 + 10% * (5 + 4)
    = 25% + 90%
    = 115%

    My rule of thumb is that anything over 100% is pretty solid. In case you're interested, here is a post I mathed out a while back that's got the crit profiles for several not-exactly-top-tier weapons using barbarian trees. You can get some pretty ridiculous profiles by combining Silvanus and Barbarian

    Edit: Oops, forgot Headman's Chop. Numbers updated
    Last edited by Discpsycho; 05-13-2019 at 03:20 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swimms View Post
    I disagree, the ability of CiTW weapons to host sentience makes them a decent choice for mid epic leveling on some builds (even more so given how easy they are to acquire if you have Raider's boxes). I have used Antipode, Pinion and Agony all with 5+ slot sentience gems to bridge the gap until level 28/29 items kick in.
    He has a single box dude, a celestia will be useful on literally every melee dps class and spec while antipode, pinion and agony are all niche items for a single class/spec that can easily be replaced by other named items.

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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Base the decision off what you think you will be playing a while from now imo.
    I'm a Barbarian specialized in two-handed slashing weapons. Focused Wrath gives me +2 crit multiplier. So:

    My Thunder-forged Greatsword does crits of 10%/x4 and can't accept sentience.
    Breach, from the Raider box, does crits of 15%/x4 and accepts sentience.
    Celestia, also from the box, does crits of 10%/x4, accepts sentience, but isn't 2-handed and isn't slashing. It does break DR/-, but the other weapons do a lot of damage; won't they exceed the DR much of the time?
    Last edited by shawnvw; 03-02-2019 at 02:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swimms View Post
    I disagree, the ability of CiTW weapons to host sentience makes them a decent choice for mid epic leveling on some builds (even more so given how easy they are to acquire if you have Raider's boxes). I have used Antipode, Pinion and Agony all with 5+ slot sentience gems to bridge the gap until level 28/29 items kick in.
    I agree CitW weapons are really nice on any DPS build. Do not forget the subterfuge set gives +5 to hit/dmg which is a nice boost you do not get from a drop or thundeforged weapon.

    That being said falchion on a well build pure barb THF build is still slightly ahead of ace due to the increase in crit chance, but it’s not nearly as bad in epics as was said. AFAIR it is like 2-3% ahead both maxed. Personally I prefer the cleaver because the extra goodies like hemorrhaging (better scaling damage) limb chopping and improved curse spewing, which helps a lot in survivability. Both a good weapons though. Sure thing would not be in the ballpark on a barn with the other two unless you need an undead beater, but there are loot gen or crafted items to solve that where you need it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawnvw View Post
    I'm a Barbarian specialized in two-handed slashing weapons. Focused Wrath gives me +2 crit multiplier. So:

    My Thunder-forged Greatsword does crits of 10%/x4 and can't accept sentience.
    Breach, from the Raider box, does crits of 15%/x4 and accepts sentience.
    Celestia, also from the box, does crits of 10%/x4, accepts sentience, but isn't 2-handed and isn't slashing. It does break DR/-, but the other weapons do a lot of damage; won't they exceed the DR much of the time?
    How about this: I keep the TF Greatsword as my main weapon, and get Celestia as a specialty weapon versus mobs that have DR/- or are vulnerable to light?
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawnvw View Post
    How about this: I keep the TF Greatsword as my main weapon, and get Celestia as a specialty weapon versus mobs that have DR/- or are vulnerable to light?
    During the Anniversary where all the Raid weapons went out, all my characters took Queen Celestia and I never once regretted it. That one weapon has so much utility in so many situations on so many builds. She is also the Queen of Equestria and looks neat.
    Sophie the Cat Burglar - Creator, Dreamer, Explorer - Happy yet Sad - Seeker of Beauty and Wonder
    I wish you all many happy adventures! Good bye!

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