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  1. #21
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    I just want DDO VR, running quests Beat Saber style.
    Arlandina / Bayanessa of Argonnessen

  2. #22
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    If you do make a new game, allow for community content and dynamic xp / reward / etc allocation.

  3. #23
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    I posted this in another thread a while back but... you don't go through all the effort and expense to form a new company, get the IP for 2 games, logically separate yourselves from Turbine, and everything else that went along with standing up SSG, just to babysit 2 games that are over a decade old. My guess is that they are indeed working on a new title, but have neither acquired the backing nor staffed up yet to produce more than a presentation to prospective investors. DDO 2 or not, I am willing to bet (a lot) that there is something going on along the route of a new title from SSG.

    People think the 300K that they got from selling 1000 season passes is going back into DDO. I don't.
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  4. #24
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
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    Yes, how did this leak out?

    Unfortunately the art department is committed to other projects. so the graphics will be sparse. As for the content, well, they left that to the guy that cleans to office at night, (he's a puzzle fanatic)





    It would be cool to see DDO V2.0, but unless someone here hits the lottery, and puts the money up, we won't see it anytime soon*
    Last edited by Lagin; 02-21-2019 at 01:35 PM.



  5. #25
    Community Member Armatone's Avatar
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    Default If they are...

    Don't get me wrong with what I post below. I love D&D. I love DDO. I have tried other games but just couldn't get into them. SSG team has done a wonderful job bringing AD&D to life.

    If they are here is what I would like to see...

    1. Dump XP & Levels
      • Make Quests Scale dynamically
      • Go To Skill Based. Class is just used to determine primary skill focus. Skill points awarded per quest in the range of 1 to 10(?).
      • Increase number of skills (Free Climbing, Use of Grappling Hooks, etc.)
      • Quests are not repeatable unless someone in a group has not done it.
    2. Open Quest Creation to the public - Just Generically - Design includes: Map, General Plot, General Location, General types of creatures.
    3. Play test Quest for at least 100 hours with each race and class.
    4. Bring on Interns to translate designs to game engine.
    5. Simplify the game rules.
      • Everything can be done done under a d100 or % based system. Simplifies the coding & Frees up resources for more animation.
    6. Multiple possible (maybe random) starting places & conditions such as you awake in the village midden shivering from the cold in the predawn light (no gear). Or, your head clears and you come to realize that the last thing you remember is being involved in a bar fight (Gear is in a pile outside the jail cell). In either case someone may be along to help you out of your predicament (for a favor, recruitment, etc.). Or etc.
    7. Make the world dynamic. i.e. Time passes.
      • Time Passes
      • Quests disappear when no longer relevant.
      • New quests appear as time goes by.
      • Earthquakes & Hurricanes & Tornadoes & etc. (Possibly tied to actual events around the world.)
      • Include wars & battles
    8. Ten years of quests ready to go upon launch.
    9. Actual guilds. Provide bonus to skill points earned, discounted training, etc. Also provides leads on quests. More than one per class.
    10. Associations - work like guilds on DDO.
    11. Multiple continents. One race predominant on each one.
    12. More sagas than DDO currently has.


    Quests translated to different gaming systems & different VTT (Virtual Table Top) systems. Revenue source. Shared with Quest designer of quest, interns and translators to different systems.
    One server for free play & intro to system. Minimal monthly fee to enter the actual world (new server for every 5k to 10k players).

    Just some thoughts.

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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armatone View Post
    Don't get me wrong with what I post below. I love D&D. I love DDO. I have tried other games but just couldn't get into them. SSG team has done a wonderful job bringing AD&D to life.

    If they are here is what I would like to see...

    1. Dump XP & Levels
      • Make Quests Scale dynamically
      • Go To Skill Based. Class is just used to determine primary skill focus. Skill points awarded per quest in the range of 1 to 10(?).
      • Increase number of skills (Free Climbing, Use of Grappling Hooks, etc.)
      • Quests are not repeatable unless someone in a group has not done it.
    2. Open Quest Creation to the public - Just Generically - Design includes: Map, General Plot, General Location, General types of creatures.
    3. Play test Quest for at least 100 hours with each race and class.
    4. Bring on Interns to translate designs to game engine.
    5. Simplify the game rules.
      • Everything can be done done under a d100 or % based system. Simplifies the coding & Frees up resources for more animation.
    6. Multiple possible (maybe random) starting places & conditions such as you awake in the village midden shivering from the cold in the predawn light (no gear). Or, your head clears and you come to realize that the last thing you remember is being involved in a bar fight (Gear is in a pile outside the jail cell). In either case someone may be along to help you out of your predicament (for a favor, recruitment, etc.). Or etc.
    7. Make the world dynamic. i.e. Time passes.
      • Time Passes
      • Quests disappear when no longer relevant.
      • New quests appear as time goes by.
      • Earthquakes & Hurricanes & Tornadoes & etc. (Possibly tied to actual events around the world.)
      • Include wars & battles
    8. Ten years of quests ready to go upon launch.
    9. Actual guilds. Provide bonus to skill points earned, discounted training, etc. Also provides leads on quests. More than one per class.
    10. Associations - work like guilds on DDO.
    11. Multiple continents. One race predominant on each one.
    12. More sagas than DDO currently has.


    Quests translated to different gaming systems & different VTT (Virtual Table Top) systems. Revenue source. Shared with Quest designer of quest, interns and translators to different systems.
    One server for free play & intro to system. Minimal monthly fee to enter the actual world (new server for every 5k to 10k players).

    Just some thoughts.

    Dump XP & Levels[*]Make Quests Scale dynamically
    I see this mentioned occasionally. Please explain how you would suggest the devs deal with aspects of the game that are conditionally available based on level. For example, a lev 20 wizard groups with several level 1 newbs to help them through Korthos. Does the wizard get scaled to level 1? What about spells? What about gear? Or do the rest of the group and quests get scaled up to level 20? Do the level 1 characters get built automatically to level 20? Or would they meet somewhere in the middle, averaging levels? Same questions apply - gear, specs etc. What about keymapping? Specializations? Epic Destinies?

    The concept of flexible grouping is appealing but I just don't understand how it could be applied to a D&D/DDO model. If you, or anyone else, thinks it could, I would love to hear how.

  7. #27
    Community Member Epicstorms's Avatar
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    Aye, new game soon.

    Sharn!

  8. #28
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armatone View Post
    Don't get me wrong with what I post below. I love D&D. I love DDO. I have tried other games but just couldn't get into them. SSG team has done a wonderful job bringing AD&D to life.

    If they are here is what I would like to see...

    1. Dump XP & Levels
      • Make Quests Scale dynamically
      • Go To Skill Based. Class is just used to determine primary skill focus. Skill points awarded per quest in the range of 1 to 10(?).
      • Increase number of skills (Free Climbing, Use of Grappling Hooks, etc.)
      • Quests are not repeatable unless someone in a group has not done it.
    2. Open Quest Creation to the public - Just Generically - Design includes: Map, General Plot, General Location, General types of creatures.
    3. Play test Quest for at least 100 hours with each race and class.
    4. Bring on Interns to translate designs to game engine.
    5. Simplify the game rules.
      • Everything can be done done under a d100 or % based system. Simplifies the coding & Frees up resources for more animation.
    6. Multiple possible (maybe random) starting places & conditions such as you awake in the village midden shivering from the cold in the predawn light (no gear). Or, your head clears and you come to realize that the last thing you remember is being involved in a bar fight (Gear is in a pile outside the jail cell). In either case someone may be along to help you out of your predicament (for a favor, recruitment, etc.). Or etc.
    7. Make the world dynamic. i.e. Time passes.
      • Time Passes
      • Quests disappear when no longer relevant.
      • New quests appear as time goes by.
      • Earthquakes & Hurricanes & Tornadoes & etc. (Possibly tied to actual events around the world.)
      • Include wars & battles
    8. Ten years of quests ready to go upon launch.
    9. Actual guilds. Provide bonus to skill points earned, discounted training, etc. Also provides leads on quests. More than one per class.
    10. Associations - work like guilds on DDO.
    11. Multiple continents. One race predominant on each one.
    12. More sagas than DDO currently has.


    Quests translated to different gaming systems & different VTT (Virtual Table Top) systems. Revenue source. Shared with Quest designer of quest, interns and translators to different systems.
    One server for free play & intro to system. Minimal monthly fee to enter the actual world (new server for every 5k to 10k players).

    Just some thoughts.

    Things I disagree with:
    -Quests disappearing and not being repeatable? say what? First of all, it wastes a whole lot of dev time. Second, it basically gives you a one and done shot at named items within quests? No thanks.
    -Wars and battles? Sounds like RvR which is ultimately a fail when one side gets unbalanced or a class becomes OP, etc... all RvR games have huge issues.
    -Skill based vs class based? Well, then we are no longer playing DDO or anything D&D based, we are playing every other sandbox MMO out there.
    -Simplify game rules? Again, not D&D based anymore.
    -Multiple continents? Going to say no on this one too. The whole idea is that everyone is thrust into the world together. I can agree with different starting points for different races, but after the initial NPC conversation, we should all be grouped together.
    -As far as the d100 system, we had been moving to that in a lot of ways already
    -Making guilds MORE exclusive? No thanks. We already have a system that prevents the casual player from raiding newer content, or older content for that matter. There is no need to have more content inaccessible to the masses.
    -I am not sure what playing a class for 100 hours does, so I am disagreeing just because it doesn't make any sense. Who cares if I play a class for an hour or 100 hours?

    Something I don't care or don't mind happening in a sequel:
    -Increased skills? yeah, as long as it adheres to what DnD does
    -Hire more interns? Sure, why not.
    -Ten years worth of content? Well, I guess so but not sure how long the lead time would be on that. Thinking back on the release back in 2006, if all of the 3/06 - 3/07 content was included at launch, it would have saved a ton of attrition.

    Things I am on board with:
    -Make your own dungeons. Hell Ya. With the player base we have, you would see some amazing things.
    -More sagas? yeah, that is good.
    -Guild changes I would support. Do not make content exclusive, but perhaps add guild cloaks with player designability. Also, associations are nice where you can be "friendly" with 2-3 other guilds and share a chat. An ingame guild calendar would be great. Bringing back the customization of guild ranks would be nice too. I think they introduced that a while back and never stuck. Also, guild ranks were displayed with guild name. It was funny to see a guild leader tag as "Don" or "Jefe" or something unique.
    -Persistent world that can support open area (more easily added) events and random encounters. Having to implement a separate quest and dungeon/area each time an event hits is an old concept. A persistent world with all the dungeons hanging off it would be better. Have more difficult open world events that challenge folks and are more easily joined.
    Last edited by barecm; 02-22-2019 at 08:13 AM.
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  9. #29
    Community Member Armatone's Avatar
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    I understand what you are saying. What I posted were some thoughts I have had for the last few months as a thought experiment.

    If it is a new game, why must they be limited to basing it on D&D? Technically, ALL rpg's and video games are based on D&D.

    Not sure how it would work. Haven't thought THAT deep into it. In AD&D different classes progress at different rates at different levels.

    I would be open to any suggestions & discussions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyed-Pyper View Post
    I see this mentioned occasionally. Please explain how you would suggest the devs deal with aspects of the game that are conditionally available based on level. For example, a lev 20 wizard groups with several level 1 newbs to help them through Korthos. Does the wizard get scaled to level 1? What about spells? What about gear? Or do the rest of the group and quests get scaled up to level 20? Do the level 1 characters get built automatically to level 20? Or would they meet somewhere in the middle, averaging levels? Same questions apply - gear, specs etc. What about keymapping? Specializations? Epic Destinies?

    The concept of flexible grouping is appealing but I just don't understand how it could be applied to a D&D/DDO model. If you, or anyone else, thinks it could, I would love to hear how.

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  10. #30
    Community Member Armatone's Avatar
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    Just a few comments on a few things.

    Quests appearing & disappearing eliminate most grinding. Some exceptions may be needed.
    Not D&D based anymore/Simplify rules. If it is a NEW game why must it be based on D&D?
    Continents. No one is thrust into DDO together. People who have been here since the beginning are of a different era than people starting last week.
    Guilds. Guilds would be actual guilds based on class and and are not the loose associations in DDO. They would be "admined" by the game.

    100 hours is play testing by non-developers to make sure everything is working such as places where hirelings/npc's get stuck or where there is an area where you should be able to get to something - nothing blocking you - unless you move a couple inches to the left or right. It is to try and eliminate things not WAI when updates are made. On one of my iconic deep gnomes Permanent Blur doesn't always show.


    Quote Originally Posted by barecm View Post
    Things I disagree with:
    -Quests disappearing and not being repeatable? say what? First of all, it wastes a whole lot of dev time. Second, it basically gives you a one and done shot at named items within quests? No thanks.
    -Wars and battles? Sounds like RvR which is ultimately a fail when one side gets unbalanced or a class becomes OP, etc... all RvR games have huge issues.
    -Skill based vs class based? Well, then we are no longer playing DDO or anything D&D based, we are playing every other sandbox MMO out there.
    -Simplify game rules? Again, not D&D based anymore.
    -Multiple continents? Going to say no on this one too. The whole idea is that everyone is thrust into the world together. I can agree with different starting points for different races, but after the initial NPC conversation, we should all be grouped together.
    -As far as the d100 system, we had been moving to that in a lot of ways already
    -Making guilds MORE exclusive? No thanks. We already have a system that prevents the casual player from raiding newer content, or older content for that matter. There is no need to have more content inaccessible to the masses.
    -I am not sure what playing a class for 100 hours does, so I am disagreeing just because it doesn't make any sense. Who cares if I play a class for an hour or 100 hours?

    Something I don't care or don't mind happening in a sequel:
    -Increased skills? yeah, as long as it adheres to what DnD does
    -Hire more interns? Sure, why not.
    -Ten years worth of content? Well, I guess so but not sure how long the lead time would be on that. Thinking back on the release back in 2006, if all of the 3/06 - 3/07 content was included at launch, it would have saved a ton of attrition.

    Things I am on board with:
    -Make your own dungeons. Hell Ya. With the player base we have, you would see some amazing things.
    -More sagas? yeah, that is good.
    -Guild changes I would support. Do not make content exclusive, but perhaps add guild cloaks with player designability. Also, associations are nice where you can be "friendly" with 2-3 other guilds and share a chat. An ingame guild calendar would be great. Bringing back the customization of guild ranks would be nice too. I think they introduced that a while back and never stuck. Also, guild ranks were displayed with guild name. It was funny to see a guild leader tag as "Don" or "Jefe" or something unique.
    -Persistent world that can support open area (more easily added) events and random encounters. Having to implement a separate quest and dungeon/area each time an event hits is an old concept. A persistent world with all the dungeons hanging off it would be better. Have more difficult open world events that challenge folks and are more easily joined.
    Last edited by Armatone; 02-22-2019 at 11:32 AM.

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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annex View Post
    I wonder how much it costs to develop a new multi-player game like DDO, from inception to launch.
    Pathfinder Online tried it with a bit over $1M, and it wasn't enough.
    Path of Exile tried it with a bit over $2M and it was wildly successful.

    I think the viable minimum is somewhere in between. But both relied on crowdfunding rather than conventional financing, I think a small group of dedicated and ambitious tech savvy fans could mount a credible entry into the field even if they didn't start with a large financial backing. Off the shelf engine, cloud based hosting, D20 OGL license, only game logic and digital assets are needed and they could be developed even before funding started!

    If I worked for SSG, that would terrify me. They've let power creep invalidate most of their huge content base, the one real barrier to a small new competitor. There might already be one under development and they wouldn't even know until it jumped out and bit them.
    I am profoundly disappointed with the current state and direction of DDO, and my purchasing habits reflect this. A drastic improvement in quality of life, transparency, and honest communication would improve my spending. Promises and "more squeeze" will not.

  12. #32
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Armatone;6184933]Just a few comments on a few things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armatone View Post
    Quests appearing & disappearing eliminate most grinding. Some exceptions may be needed.
    Again, you are asking devs to spend time and money on quests that simply disappear. Not something you are going to sell to an investor... or a player base.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armatone View Post
    Not D&D based anymore/Simplify rules. If it is a NEW game why must it be based on D&D?
    Because this is the DDO forums and that is what we do here. If I wanted to play a game not base on DnD, I can have my pick of the mass pile of excrement of free to play MMOs that are an endless cycle of retread trash mainly out of Korean style development shops. The stay active for a year or so until the next all sizzle and no meat game comes out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armatone View Post
    Continents. No one is thrust into DDO together. People who have been here since the beginning are of a different era than people starting last week.
    Eh, not really sure what impact that gives other than saying I have played longer than you have played; which I have by 10 years according to your profile. Do I get banner over my head that says I've been here since day 1? Do I really want that? (spoiler, my answer is no). The attraction of this game is that it is not PvP / bragging based. I would not be into a game that makes newer player even further alienated from the vets. It's an obvious focus for this game and one I support. More new folks who get into this game as quickly as possible, the better. Don't make folks feel hopelessly behind the curve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armatone View Post
    Guilds. Guilds would be actual guilds based on class and and are not the loose associations in DDO. They would be "admined" by the game.
    Not sure how this would pan out. If it is about those who are in big guilds get to play more of the game than others, I am not in favor of it. I am in favor of removing guild tags and adding guild cloaks; or having the ability to toggle between. Player designed cloaks would be fantastic. This community has long since shown it is talented in that regard and would an incredible addition to the game imho. I also like the idea of Guild alliances if done in a way that does not promote guild consolidation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armatone View Post
    100 hours is play testing by non-developers to make sure everything is working such as places where hirelings/npc's get stuck or where there is an area where you should be able to get to something - nothing blocking you - unless you move a couple inches to the left or right. It is to try and eliminate things not WAI when updates are made. On one of my iconic deep gnomes Permanent Blur doesn't always show.
    I am ok with QA, just was not understanding this 100 hour rule as it was written before.
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  13. #33
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    I think it's much more likely they take another old game with a loyal fan base and trim costs to make it something they can keep going with some profit.

  14. #34
    Community Member die's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barecm View Post
    I posted this in another thread a while back but... you don't go through all the effort and expense to form a new company, get the IP for 2 games, logically separate yourselves from Turbine, and everything else that went along with standing up SSG, just to babysit 2 games that are over a decade old. My guess is that they are indeed working on a new title, but have neither acquired the backing nor staffed up yet to produce more than a presentation to prospective investors. DDO 2 or not, I am willing to bet (a lot) that there is something going on along the route of a new title from SSG.

    People think the 300K that they got from selling 1000 season passes is going back into DDO. I don't.
    I like the way you think Sir.

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  15. #35
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyed-Pyper View Post
    I see this mentioned occasionally. Please explain how you would suggest the devs deal with aspects of the game that are conditionally available based on level. For example, a lev 20 wizard groups with several level 1 newbs to help them through Korthos. Does the wizard get scaled to level 1? What about spells? What about gear? Or do the rest of the group and quests get scaled up to level 20? Do the level 1 characters get built automatically to level 20? Or would they meet somewhere in the middle, averaging levels? Same questions apply - gear, specs etc. What about keymapping? Specializations? Epic Destinies?

    The concept of flexible grouping is appealing but I just don't understand how it could be applied to a D&D/DDO model. If you, or anyone else, thinks it could, I would love to hear how.
    it can not be applied to the model of ddo. What games usually do with this type of scaling is simply to lower the hit points and the dps that the characters do, and it works for those games because the builds are significantly less complex than the D&D/DDO builds. And even so, I have not played any game with this type of scaling in which the "attenuated" characters (who usually have more skills) are not more powerful than the characters of the real level with whom they group. In DDO the difference would be overwhelming. There is much more in our builds than a little more life, damage and a couple more skills.

    In a world based on D&D makes more sense to encourage the alts and to help new ones reach veterans sooner than trying to group characters from very different levels. That, and not create artificial limitations to the grouping as they have done with reaper, at least with the old system had more range of levels at the time of grouping ...

    I find funny that often the same people who say that the alts should get all their experience for themselves and that new players should not be given anything, because the D&D way is for each to achieve their own achievements, then propose these kind of things that are totally anti-D&D
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  16. #36
    Community Member Draxis's Avatar
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    I seriously doubt WoTC would be willing to license any new D&D game without a ton of scratch which SSG does not have.

  17. #37
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    All companies plan on growing, they've gotta have something brewing in the background.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alled78 View Post
    Why should i use all my neural cells when i can go inqui and go pew pew pew ???

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaboom2112 View Post
    All companies plan on growing, they've gotta have something brewing in the background.
    Yes. I doubt that SSG would just fold when DDO and LOTRO eventually become too dated to retain much of a player base.

  19. #39
    Community Member DRoark's Avatar
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    I'd be all for it, if you could port a character over to it... and it wasn't run by SSG in any way shape or form.

  20. #40
    Community Member Annex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucidLTS View Post
    Pathfinder Online tried it with a bit over $1M, and it wasn't enough.
    Path of Exile tried it with a bit over $2M and it was wildly successful.
    Wow. That sounds totally doable. I would love to build dungeons and write stories for a fantasy game.
    Sophie the Cat Burglar - Creator, Dreamer, Explorer - Happy yet Sad - Seeker of Beauty and Wonder
    I wish you all many happy adventures! Good bye!

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