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  1. #1
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    Default WPM and Other Tales

    Just picked this up, and frankly I am ready for my money back. It seems to follow the old DDO rules of evasion or die. I acknowledge that the first time through on elite on at level (6th) characters can be tough. But with solid tomes and best crafted gear available, it was just pure frustration. Nothing made any sense; dimensional anchors are up, but most everything you run into is summoned. You cannot summon anything inside the prison, and if you die, your team mate can take your stone outside to the shrine and drop you off, but ya can't leave the prison to res. So, for the next 30 minutes all you can do is run around and hope for a shrine.

    Yep, I know this is pretty much a rage post about a tough quest; but, sometimes that is just what it takes to vent. These quests seem to scale off the charts and completely lose their fun factor when the killer DM takes over.

    I'll take a break and then go in trying it severely over level, but sure feels like I'd rather have my 795 points back. I doubt I will be able to convince the girlfriend to give it another try.

    Edit: Thoughts and advice welcome.
    Last edited by guzzlr; 02-10-2019 at 04:09 PM.

  2. #2
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Thoughts...

    Run these quests multiple times - Not in a row, don't burn yourself out. Also, give yourself time to reflect.

    I actually keep a note pad and paper by my computer (I'm a software developer and project manager that came up from the Accounting field, I learned long ago don't try to memorize everything write it down)

    Each time you run it, note what was frustrating, what was difficult and what you liked about that run.

    Then ask yourself, "what could I do to make it less frustrating/difficult?"
    While there is not always a way to directly make things less frustrating, there may be ways to make things less difficult. Examples: you are taking a lot of fire damage that has a reflex save, while you are saving you are still taking 1/2 damage. What can you do to minimize that?

    Example:
    1. Fire Shield Scrolls - No Fail UMD is 31, 50% chance is 21, ML to use these scrolls is 5.
    2. Fire Resistance/Reduction - Ship buffs or House P Favor have between 10 to 30 resistance that you lose on death, but also ship buffs have a reduction. Don't forget there is also gear. Or you could grab some Protection Potions or scrolls of Protection from Elements. Something you can quickly drink between hits.


    Each time you run it, don't take the same path. Explore, look around see if there is something you missed the last time your ran. This could indirectly remove frustration or even show you a path that would be more in tune with how you like to tackle a quest.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Thoughts...

    Run these quests multiple times - Not in a row, don't burn yourself out. Also, give yourself time to reflect.

    Each time you run it, note what was frustrating, what was difficult and what you liked about that run.

    Then ask yourself, "what could I do to make it less frustrating/difficult?"
    While there is not always a way to directly make things less frustrating, there may be ways to make things less difficult. Examples: you are taking a lot of fire damage that has a reflex save, while you are saving you are still taking 1/2 damage. What can you do to minimize that?

    Example:
    1. Fire Shield Scrolls - No Fail UMD is 31, 50% chance is 21, ML to use these scrolls is 5.
    2. Fire Resistance/Reduction - Ship buffs or House P Favor have between 10 to 30 resistance that you lose on death, but also ship buffs have a reduction. Don't forget there is also gear. Or you could grab some Protection Potions or scrolls of Protection from Elements. Something you can quickly drink between hits.

    Each time you run it, don't take the same path. Explore, look around see if there is something you missed the last time your ran. This could indirectly remove frustration or even show you a path that would be more in tune with how you like to tackle a quest.
    TLDR:
    I appreciate your calm and thoughtful approach. And I knew that stepping away was really the best thing to do, but it was just not the experience we were looking for after waiting a long while to pick up the pack (wanted to take character through the heroic first, then the epics later). It was truly an exercise in frustration, that was seriously over it's level range of 6.

    Frustrating (longer post):
    First quest we did, with the red switch past the spike pokers of instant death. Those spikes aren't exactly where they seem to be. I eventually made it through, but my girlfriend (the better of us as far as mario toon navigation skills) died repeatedly there; once when she was not moving at all, not in any spikes and just prepping her next path through. Still, that was not so bad...

    Next one, inside the mind. It seems like the quests inside the mind always have something goofy and that is true here. Still, we enjoyed the new graphics and chuckled at the jokes (but please remove the blatant "click your search, magnifying glass icon to find the book" spammed at us). It also felt kinda cheesy when we ended up draggin the manticores to the doorway and ranging them to death while they bugged out shooting the roof. But, sometimes that is what you have to do. Still, we were enjoying the exploration. Until... the east room. This was pure jerk DM-style garbage. High damage, ranged, creatures that force you to run through a mario gauntlet of over powered attacks (again, for level 6) just to try and get close enough to take a swing. The ranged warlock was better off, but after trying a variety of things, we finally gave up and left the quest. Invis didn't work, gather their attention down below while the other tries to "sneak" close enough to shoot didn't work. We came back the next day on elite and managed it, but only because we got only one champion on the highest level shooting lightning bolts at us for 234 points of damage.

    Last one we tried, the prison break. The frustration here is all based around the old school DDO mantra of evasion or go home. Spell casters of all kinds, buffs we put up were dispelled (short term potions, clickies, wand buffs) instantly. Many of the things seemed to regenerate as well. The fight with the marut is a ridiculous joke. Blind, chained, stunned, lighting, sonic, dispelled, level drained, ghostly, casters, archers, fireballs, and I'm sure something else I am forgetting. We opened the door, saw the fight and immediately turned to run. Chained stopped that. Once my warlock partner was being dealt with, all I could do was chain heal until it was finally over and we were dispatched. There were just too many effects all happening at once for 6th level characters to handle. Any three of the effects? Probly we could have sorted it out, all of them? No flippin chance. Also, what is the deal with not being able to go outside the prison following your soul stone to use the res shrine? I was a ghost, who could take 37 points of falling damage and was able to run around anywhere unless there was a door. Something borked up.

    Ok, I get it, it happens in quests. I remember the old days. But I also remember that changes for the better have happened and there are supposed to be options. If we are being pushed towards light armor and evasion for every build then it is just back to the Icy Rainment days. And I got so sick of the "Icy Age" where it was nothing but robes that I haven't made an evasion build since Armor Up (even after it's nerf). But, I digress.

    The quests did not leave us with a feeling of adventure and exploration. It left us feeling like we had gone to a convention and sat down at a table to run a module where the DM read everything verbatim off the page; waiting to "getcha" and force the party wipe to prove their mad skillz. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a "pay 795 points to farm falconry and Black Razor" and nothing else.

    I play for fun.

  4. #4
    Community Member hp1055cm's Avatar
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    The 4 pack at level 6 is definitely the hardest content at the level, with maybe only Bloody Crypt being in the same category.
    I attempted 2 quests at level in heroics before bailing. I ran them once over-level in heroics and several times in epics and they get a little easier once you get familiar with them. I doubt I will run them while leveling heroics anytime soon. Even in a group they are formidable.

    That said, the 4 quests overall are okay but I don't understand the reasoning behind making new content so much harder than the existing content. The same quests at level 8 or 9 would be much more enjoyable.

    WPM on the other hand is better and more consistent for the level 9 difficulty. After running it a few times at level it has become a staple in my leveling routine and in my top 10 fave quests. In epics it is also manageable at level in a group.

    I haven't looked too closely at the loot as I spend most of my time leveling and already have decent gear. I can't say I have found anything that impressed me too much aside from the sentient spark thing.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by guzzlr View Post
    Also, what is the deal with not being able to go outside the prison following your soul stone to use the res shrine? I was a ghost, who could take 37 points of falling damage and was able to run around anywhere unless there was a door.
    Hold up... what? Someone took your soulstone, went back out, and you couldn't follow them? Did it try to teleport you towards the stone holder after 10 seconds? Please describe what exactly happened and what did you do.

  6. #6
    Community Member ChadB123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Hold up... what? Someone took your soulstone, went back out, and you couldn't follow them? Did it try to teleport you towards the stone holder after 10 seconds? Please describe what exactly happened and what did you do.
    Not sure about his experience, but this happened on Orien during our guild's Strahd raid last Saturday (2/9/19). We had a party member's soulstone by the shrine, but it wouldn't teleport him from the entrance room of the raid. We had to run back out and raise him.
    Epicsoul of Orien

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Hold up... what? Someone took your soulstone, went back out, and you couldn't follow them? Did it try to teleport you towards the stone holder after 10 seconds? Please describe what exactly happened and what did you do.
    Level 3/3 fvs/bard, race Aasimar.

    We entered the prison at the front gate (through the lit up runes/force field). Walked down a few steps, big fight, I failed a save versus some spell damage, and died. I don't remember what got me exactly, but maybe lightning? Partner ran around killing things and dodging, then grabbed my soul stone and headed back out the main gate. She ran up top to the Res shrine and I never left the prison. I never got a message telling me I was too far away from my stone. I did not ever try to teleport. I did have the dimensional anchor notice above me. Partner dropped my stone off at the shrine and I just followed her around as a ghost until we found another shrine. At that point I was able to res. While I was a ghost, I was able to roam anywhere in the quest that didn't have some sort of interact barrier. If I jumped off the top level of the prison I took 37 points of falling damage at the bottom.

    The res shrine up top had been used by my partner prior to her dropping my stone off there.

    For a while I chalked it up to dimensional anchor means you can't leave the prison as a ghost, but I guess that is not the way it's supposed to be. I can bug report it, and later this evening go see if that happens again...

  8. #8
    Community Member LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadB123 View Post
    Not sure about his experience, but this happened on Orien during our guild's Strahd raid last Saturday (2/9/19). We had a party member's soulstone by the shrine, but it wouldn't teleport him from the entrance room of the raid. We had to run back out and raise him.
    My group experienced that in Strahd 2 or 3 weeks ago.

    Some people died during the mist fight inside the heart. I grabbed 1 or 2 soul stones, and took a D-door back to the entrance. Ran to the shrine, waited a moment for them to appear, and the dropped the stones on the ground before resting. However, the person/persons had appeared back at the entrance of the raid.

    Wild theory: Maybe something goes wrong if the person carrying a Soul Stone is zoning (in a loading screen) at the moment where the owner tries to teleport back to their stone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    DDO is bug free, I assure you.
    That's not lag, it's just DDO trying to become turn-based again.

  9. #9
    Community Member Annex's Avatar
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    *Quietly adds White Plume Mountain to her list of quest packs not to purchase accept at 75% off.*
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  10. #10
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoLionxxx View Post

    Wild theory: Maybe something goes wrong if the person carrying a Soul Stone is zoning (in a loading screen) at the moment where the owner tries to teleport back to their stone.
    That's my thought as well. Had this happen in Lost at Sea once.

  11. #11
    Community Member krzyysiek098's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Hold up... what? Someone took your soulstone, went back out, and you couldn't follow them? Did it try to teleport you towards the stone holder after 10 seconds? Please describe what exactly happened and what did you do.
    While we're at it... Some time ago in Strahd raid one of my teammates was gripped inside the Heart. That was after the fight, when Sunsword was taken from the ground and a teleporting door appeared. So the teammate was gripped when people started teleporting out of the Heart to the Stairs area. It was too fast for any kind of reaction - when he communicated that he's gripped, everyone has just moved outside that area, so he died. As you probably know, there is no way to go back to the Heart.
    Eventually we successfully finished the raid, but the person who died gripped in the Heart was not teleported out. There was simply no way to get him out, he could not use standard methods of reviving himself - like cakes - either, because it was a raid.

    Please fix it.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Dabima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Hold up... what? Someone took your soulstone, went back out, and you couldn't follow them? Did it try to teleport you towards the stone holder after 10 seconds? Please describe what exactly happened and what did you do.
    I've ran into this very rarely in other quests sometimes. It's not related to this quest pack by any means. There's just a rare problem where your soul stone will become unattached to your ghost, and you'll stop rubberbanding to it, and be able to move around freely. In the rare cases it has happened to me, it's always been when someone transitions to a different area of the quest via a door that "teleports" you to a different area, i.e. outside a building, or entering a cave which moves you to a different area of the map
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Hold up... what? Someone took your soulstone, went back out, and you couldn't follow them? Did it try to teleport you towards the stone holder after 10 seconds? Please describe what exactly happened and what did you do.
    That's happened to me 2-3 times over the years -- it's extremely rare, so probably not reproducible.

  14. #14
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annex View Post
    *Quietly adds White Plume Mountain to her list of quest packs not to purchase accept at 75% off.*

    Even with these issues...WPM is still worthwhile. The main quest WPM is a great source of named items to feed your sentient gem. I like the Epic version of the quests, but I've never attempted Heroic.
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  15. #15
    Community Member zehnvhex's Avatar
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    WPM at cap isn't the worst thing in the world.

    WPM at level 6 however, is.
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