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  1. #1
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    Default Ethereal vs Aborea

    Is the +1 dmg / 3 hide better than the +20 range power?

    Initially I took the Ranged, power, but I'm thinking Ethereal may be a lot better. I'll be doing an ETR soon, but thinking that the rogue past life would add good synergy as well. I'm sure this has been discussed before, and I'm probably late to the game and playing ketchup.

  2. #2
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Depends on your hide score. Also depends on how often you are in SA range as I assume you’re talk g about a ranged build.
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

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    Keep the main weapon on when reincarnating out of arborea to keep the +2 enchant.

    Generally you will enjoy more damage from the sneak than the 20 mp/rp, even if you're not a rogue. The margin is actually smaller for rogues because of scaling existing sneak dice with power (150%).
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
    Thelanis - Striving to be your Swiss Army Knife for DPS, traps and tanking
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  4. #4
    Community Member Ballrus's Avatar
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    Hello.

    Probably on wrong thread, but in a fighter 20 (10 epics) with 110 hide, what is better: arborea or ethereal?

    Ty in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    ...Raiding is pointless because gear will eventually be replaced by better gear. Past lives are forever and thus are the only character improvement that is worth the trouble of acquiring...
    Endgame is TR!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballrus View Post
    Hello.

    Probably on wrong thread, but in a fighter 20 (10 epics) with 110 hide, what is better: arborea or ethereal?

    Ty in advance.
    Very good Q Ballrus. The answer depends on your wep(s);, if using Knight's Training and if you are taking advantage of PRR debuffs from LGS Dust/Ooze wep(s) from yourself or others in party.

    If YES to all, I believe the scale tips in favor of Arborea. If partial Yes, then Ethereal may still be viable. This is currently in debate since latest 41.3 patch update. Current meta may favor Arborea, BUT...a nerf to PRR debuffs may be on the way, too. Too early to tell atm.

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    Community Member Ballrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taxidiotis View Post
    Very good Q Ballrus. The answer depends on your wep(s);, if using Knight's Training and if you are taking advantage of PRR debuffs from LGS Dust/Ooze wep(s) from yourself or others in party.

    If YES to all, I believe the scale tips in favor of Arborea. If partial Yes, then Ethereal may still be viable. This is currently in debate since latest 41.3 patch update. Current meta may favor Arborea, BUT...a nerf to PRR debuffs may be on the way, too. Too early to tell atm.
    Partial yes. Using kt (warhammer), but no lgs debuffs.

    Ty for fast answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    ...Raiding is pointless because gear will eventually be replaced by better gear. Past lives are forever and thus are the only character improvement that is worth the trouble of acquiring...
    Endgame is TR!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballrus View Post
    Probably on wrong thread, but in a fighter 20 (10 epics) with 110 hide, what is better: arborea or ethereal?
    Let's say you deal 300 damage/attack with an additional 200 Sneak Attack. We'll say your melee power is 200. This means you're doing 300/3 = 100 damage/attack without melee power and 200/4 = 50 sneak attack without melee power. Adding 20 melee power would increase this by 100 * 0.2 + 50 * (0.2 * 1.5) = 35 damage/attack.

    With the same numbers, +36 Sneak Attack would add 36 * (1 + 2 * 1.5) = 144 damage/attack.

    So it's possible to calculate the marginal advantage for any given set of stats you currently have. What I suspect you'll find is that Ethereal is almost always higher damage than Arborea with this sort of analysis.

    However, remember that Sneak Attack is subject not only to fortification but also issues like flanking. So any amount of Sneak Attack has an implicit limitation.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballrus View Post
    Hello.

    Probably on wrong thread, but in a fighter 20 (10 epics) with 110 hide, what is better: arborea or ethereal?

    Ty in advance.
    A higher melee power will definitely lean towards boosting the sneak damage from ethereal with 20MP counting for a lower % increase, and similarly rogues with all their sneak dice that scales on the 20 power will lean less towards ethereal. In all case the optimal damage will still be higher with ethereal with that amount of hide.

    The question then falls to your build as to which will scale better for you. As Hjarki mentioned sneak attacks are conditional, so a list of things to look through would be your amount of fort pierce, slotting of deception gear and the like. Even using PA or Prec makes a relatively large impact on the Arborea/Ethereal choice.
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
    Thelanis - Striving to be your Swiss Army Knife for DPS, traps and tanking
    Eushully/Centered LS Tempest | Nantekottai/Arti tank | Ponoka - Inquis

  9. #9
    Community Member Wh070aa's Avatar
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    Depends on your sneak attack uptime, and enemies. If you are fighting low fortification mobs in party with others taking aggro and can slot in the extra sneak gear, and manege aggro Ethereal can give you a ton of extra damage. That said if you solo, Or run like Wizard king towers, while having not much in way of making mobs helpless, and not 100+% fort bypass? Arborea is probably better and more reliable. Also you need good tank to keep agro off you, to optimize your DPS, or the aggro management you have to do to keep the SA going is gonna make you stop DPS-ing. Remember with sneak attack, there is such thing as too much damage (especially with the damage spikes).

    Remember that most bosses are immune to being helpless, and bluff items are bugged out in most updates.

    I personally prefer Arborea, since my gear is really bad, and I solo a lot. If you are in party with good tank (or otherwise someone else taking aggro off you), and have the gear for it, Ethereal might be worth it.

  10. #10
    Community Member Ballrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wh070aa View Post
    ...can slot in the extra sneak gear, and manege aggro...
    By sneak gear you mean armor piercing and imp deception? I have: molten silver, precision, silent avenger and epic golden guile. Can twist grim precision if needed.

    As for imp deception, i need high bluff? And diplo helps with anything?

    I'm not very "sneak".

    Ty for all answers.
    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    ...Raiding is pointless because gear will eventually be replaced by better gear. Past lives are forever and thus are the only character improvement that is worth the trouble of acquiring...
    Endgame is TR!

  11. #11
    Community Member Wh070aa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballrus View Post
    By sneak gear you mean armor piercing and imp deception? I have: molten silver, precision, silent avenger and epic golden guile. Can twist grim precision if needed.

    As for imp deception, i need high bluff? And diplo helps with anything?

    I'm not very "sneak".

    Ty for all answers.
    I mean there are different ways to keep Sneak Attack going, Diplo, bluff, aggro management, helpless status (usually blindness and/or imp deception), as long as you have a way to reliably do it, you be fine. That said imp deception has some serious bugs(that might be working as intended, but not mentioned in description so who knows), that make it not that reliable, like resetting aggro and stuff. If you are depending on tank to keep aggro, wearing it might kill people around you as it switches randomly.

    Truth to be told I don't fully understand SA related effect mechanics, and some experienced rogue players will probably answer this better, but it's extreme pain to do in my experience, especially if you don't know what each thing really does. Especially with how they change things that made targets helpless not make targets helpless, and monster immunities. It's really a mess, with only few people knowing how to do the 100% sneak uptime thing (I think you need to not use Paralyzing or similar effects, since they are exclusive and don't stack(you get one or the other?) with imp deception, but don't quote me on that, they changed a lot of things since I tried and failed to figure out how it works).

    IMO sneak attack works way more reliably if you play in party and don't use imp deception, at least unless you know what you are doing with it. SA is really complicated, and you need to test a ton of effect interactions. Just ask any friendly rogue that you see destroying things how is he doing that. There are many ways you can trigger SA, and most of them don't work the way you think they do, and in game descriptions and wiki can't be trusted.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballrus View Post
    By sneak gear you mean armor piercing and imp deception? I have: molten silver, precision, silent avenger and epic golden guile. Can twist grim precision if needed.

    As for imp deception, i need high bluff? And diplo helps with anything?

    I'm not very "sneak".

    Ty for all answers.
    TL;DR - You don't really need Bluff/Diplo, hit fast and frequent enough with a Improved Deception item and you will do sneak attacks fine.

    Fort pierce looks fine. If you run in relatively reliable parties then just some hate reduction slots will probably go a long way. Keep in mind for your case you're unlikely to be able to sneak constructs without additional debuffing from a rogue.

    If you're running in solo best chance would be counting on Ring of Lies/Echo of Ravenkind, etc. Improved Deception, it does not require bluff. Generally all melee combat styles other than THF I am aware of (H2H, TWF, SWF, Vanguard) should have enough attack speed and hit rate to keep Imp. Decept up relatively consistently. Even in party the proc can help other party members sneak, and if other party members have the piece on too it helps with the uptime.

    A successful bluff check will render a target vulnerable to sneaks for 4 seconds, and also reduces your threat for the duration. It does not move your position on a mob's hate list directly. The Strange Tidings version of Deception seems to tie the bluff proc to an actual skill check (or so I was told) so poor bluff skill may yield less than optimal results. Bluff checks towards lategame also get pretty obscene and I am not aware of any decent bluff slots in DPS gear layout, so while possible with some charisma and gear swaps, is mostly a lost cause.

    Diplomacy is the reverse intim, and moves you to the bottom of the hate list. This means the skill is ineffective in solo play as there is no other player generating more threat than you to take aggro. If the skill functions it likely means your party is ineffective in holding aggro from you, so the use is extremely limited in combat situations.
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
    Thelanis - Striving to be your Swiss Army Knife for DPS, traps and tanking
    Eushully/Centered LS Tempest | Nantekottai/Arti tank | Ponoka - Inquis

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