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  1. #1
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    Default Should I be bothering with the end game raids? What are they even for?

    They are obviously designed around people having a full or near full set of legendary gear.

    Normal/hard basically has a drop rate of "by the time you get this, you wont need it". Unless you get lucky of course. Considering that you would need 2-3 months of raids to get enough runes to buy ONE item...most of which are not much better than RL gear...and you get to use it for a grand total of one day before you ETR...im seriously wondering if this is worth the effort.

    EE basically requires a near full set of legendary gear or you will get one shotted by trash mobs doing 1k+ damage per hit, and this is with wearing level 29 armor with +50 PRR. But if you have a full set of legendary gear, why are you trying to get more legendary gear by doing EE end game raids anyway...the people who want that gear are those without legendary gear...I mean sure, if you want to stay at cap and min-max your gear, but the reincarnation system is like, the main draw of DDO anyway...and most of the playerbase is probably trying to get completionist or whatever...

    Ive been doing end game raids like baba, strahd and KT. Baba/Strahd LFMs usually have a min level of 28, because again, if you arent in legendary gear, you are not going to do much. So I have a 1-2 day window to try and catch a LFM before I ETR, which doesnt help. Either way, most of the parties ive been in have only done normal or hard, because of the gear requirements. I basically did some calculations...while some of the raid gear is neat, level 29 Ravenloft gear is nearly as good (in some cases, is actually better) and has a realistic drop rate, while the raids will require 2-3 months of farming for one item (realistically speaking).

    And heres the thing. Since I need to TR a LOT to get class completion, racial completionist, 3x EPLs in each sphere, etc...even if i had top of the line raid gear, I only get to use it for 1 day before ETRing anyway. So whats the point?

    I mean, even if i farm heroic quests for gear, I get to use the gear for way longer and its actually important for running heroic quests on reaper. Legendary gear comes so late that it feels like it has very little use, in comparison.

    There are obvious exceptions to this...LGS weapons are nearly as good as RL weapons and are level 26, so you get to use them for quite a while. Thats great. Making a LGS weapon makes sense given that you can use it from 26-30 and they are pretty useful. The level 27 raid armor from tempest spine/hound is also pretty useful 27-30. But level 29 raid gear from KT does not make much sense to me because 29-30 is like, one days worth of EN dailies.

    I actually like doing epic chronoscope and VON because even if you dont get good loot, the xp is still really useful when leveling and chronoscope is nice and straight forward. But baba/strahd basically gives no xp whatsoever, and KT is merely "okay". But doing Baba/strahd feels like a huge chore...you spend so much of the raid doing puzzles or lighting torches or climbing stairs...this is not what I play DDO for really. I mean, who plays DDO because they love tile puzzles?

    I spent 41 mins to do KT on EN earlier today, granted, we screwed up the shadows and lord of blades fight so it took longer than it should have (we DPSed Kor Kaza down really quickly, so could have ended a lot earlier), but all I got was some threads and about 60 runes. I did some calculations and figured that it would take me 2-3 months at this rate to buy a single item...by which time I would probably be running a completely different build to get completionist...and had to ask myself if it was really worth it. At 30 mins per EN run, thats at least 10 hours of raid time, not counting time to get a party together or any mistakes. For a level 29 item that I get to use for one day before ETRing.

    Baba/strahd drops level 28 gear, but the problem still applies...you dont get to use the gear for long before you ETR. And i dont even like those raids. I honestly feel like im wasting my time by running these raids on EN/EH. But to run the raids on EE and be useful, you need a full set of legendary gear, at which point, I dont need the raid gear anymore. I mean, the whole point of me doing these raids is to get legendary gear...because right now i have nearly no legendary gear...if I have a full set of legendary gear, why would I be wasting hours and horus of my time running these raids that I dont even find fun? Theres no reason for me to stay at cap and min-max my gear till I get racial and class completionist at least, which is at least 9 months away.

    When leveling in heroics, I always felt that getting updated named loot from white plum mountain, dragon blood prophecy, etc, was useful. Even if it wasnt useful for my current build, it would be useful for a future build. But with the EN drop rates for raids, unless I want to spend 2-3 months sitting at cap with one build, im not going to get anything useful anyway. The game heavily encourages constant TRing...everyone knows this, its the main draw of DDO for most players. Your OP raid gear that you took 2-3 months to get is not very useful when you get to use it for 1 day before ETRing. And for that matter, you dont even need the OP raid gear because by the time you get it, you would have a full set of RL legendary gear anyway...which is perfectly fine for running legendary reaper...

    Its like spending 2-3 months farming a level 9 raid for gear when you could just do heroic ravenloft instead. Why even bother?

    At the moment it just seems to make more sense to focus on LGS (level 26 weapons, lasts for a while) and leg tempest/hound (level 27 armor) rather than waste time with baba/strahd/KT...especially as I dont even like baba/strahd and KT is pretty meh as well.

    Anyone else feel this way?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    They are obviously designed around people having a full or near full set of legendary gear.

    Normal/hard basically has a drop rate of "by the time you get this, you wont need it". Unless you get lucky of course. Considering that you would need 2-3 months of raids to get enough runes to buy ONE item...most of which are not much better than RL gear...and you get to use it for a grand total of one day before you ETR...im seriously wondering if this is worth the effort.

    EE basically requires a near full set of legendary gear or you will get one shotted by trash mobs doing 1k+ damage per hit, and this is with wearing level 29 armor with +50 PRR. But if you have a full set of legendary gear, why are you trying to get more legendary gear by doing EE end game raids anyway...the people who want that gear are those without legendary gear...I mean sure, if you want to stay at cap and min-max your gear, but the reincarnation system is like, the main draw of DDO anyway...and most of the playerbase is probably trying to get completionist or whatever...

    Ive been doing end game raids like baba, strahd and KT. Baba/Strahd LFMs usually have a min level of 28, because again, if you arent in legendary gear, you are not going to do much. So I have a 1-2 day window to try and catch a LFM before I ETR, which doesnt help. Either way, most of the parties ive been in have only done normal or hard, because of the gear requirements. I basically did some calculations...while some of the raid gear is neat, level 29 Ravenloft gear is nearly as good (in some cases, is actually better) and has a realistic drop rate, while the raids will require 2-3 months of farming for one item (realistically speaking).

    And heres the thing. Since I need to TR a LOT to get class completion, racial completionist, 3x EPLs in each sphere, etc...even if i had top of the line raid gear, I only get to use it for 1 day before ETRing anyway. So whats the point?

    I mean, even if i farm heroic quests for gear, I get to use the gear for way longer and its actually important for running heroic quests on reaper. Legendary gear comes so late that it feels like it has very little use, in comparison.

    There are obvious exceptions to this...LGS weapons are nearly as good as RL weapons and are level 26, so you get to use them for quite a while. Thats great. Making a LGS weapon makes sense given that you can use it from 26-30 and they are pretty useful. The level 27 raid armor from tempest spine/hound is also pretty useful 27-30. But level 29 raid gear from KT does not make much sense to me because 29-30 is like, one days worth of EN dailies.

    I actually like doing epic chronoscope and VON because even if you dont get good loot, the xp is still really useful when leveling and chronoscope is nice and straight forward. But baba/strahd basically gives no xp whatsoever, and KT is merely "okay". But doing Baba/strahd feels like a huge chore...you spend so much of the raid doing puzzles or lighting torches or climbing stairs...this is not what I play DDO for really. I mean, who plays DDO because they love tile puzzles?

    I spent 41 mins to do KT on EN earlier today, granted, we screwed up the shadows and lord of blades fight so it took longer than it should have (we DPSed Kor Kaza down really quickly, so could have ended a lot earlier), but all I got was some threads and about 60 runes. I did some calculations and figured that it would take me 2-3 months at this rate to buy a single item...by which time I would probably be running a completely different build to get completionist...and had to ask myself if it was really worth it. At 30 mins per EN run, thats at least 10 hours of raid time, not counting time to get a party together or any mistakes. For a level 29 item that I get to use for one day before ETRing.

    Baba/strahd drops level 28 gear, but the problem still applies...you dont get to use the gear for long before you ETR. And i dont even like those raids. I honestly feel like im wasting my time by running these raids on EN/EH. But to run the raids on EE and be useful, you need a full set of legendary gear, at which point, I dont need the raid gear anymore. I mean, the whole point of me doing these raids is to get legendary gear...because right now i have nearly no legendary gear...if I have a full set of legendary gear, why would I be wasting hours and horus of my time running these raids that I dont even find fun? Theres no reason for me to stay at cap and min-max my gear till I get racial and class completionist at least, which is at least 9 months away.

    When leveling in heroics, I always felt that getting updated named loot from white plum mountain, dragon blood prophecy, etc, was useful. Even if it wasnt useful for my current build, it would be useful for a future build. But with the EN drop rates for raids, unless I want to spend 2-3 months sitting at cap with one build, im not going to get anything useful anyway. The game heavily encourages constant TRing...everyone knows this, its the main draw of DDO for most players. Your OP raid gear that you took 2-3 months to get is not very useful when you get to use it for 1 day before ETRing. And for that matter, you dont even need the OP raid gear because by the time you get it, you would have a full set of RL legendary gear anyway...which is perfectly fine for running legendary reaper...

    Its like spending 2-3 months farming a level 9 raid for gear when you could just do heroic ravenloft instead. Why even bother?

    At the moment it just seems to make more sense to focus on LGS (level 26 weapons, lasts for a while) and leg tempest/hound (level 27 armor) rather than waste time with baba/strahd/KT...especially as I dont even like baba/strahd and KT is pretty meh as well.

    Anyone else feel this way?
    You don't actually need to count the runes, it's effectively 20 runs for norm, 15 for hard and 10 for elite to get enough for an item, or some mix of that. If TR is your thing, sure, don't stay at cap, many people who put their main focus on TRing don't bother too much with "cap gear" because they don't stay there long enough with the possibility of the raid being outdated by the time they're done. You can just do that one or two run per TR, or not, and eventually have enough runes to decide whether you still want the gear. I don't expect any further increase vertically for power with Sharn, we have a working loot scale from 1 to "endgame" legendary, at least within the foreseeable future. Regardless that's your game for TRing, and not everybody else's.

    Don't force yourself to think TR is the "main" aim of the game. You're just making yourself miserable if you're not enjoying it. My main has been around for what, 9 years? I haven't finish class comp (2 classes left, still taking it slow), RTR count is at <10, and I haven't filled in every last ETR. And I've effectively been playing cap for the past 2-3 months. Am I having fun? Yes. Will I TR again? Sure, but not now.

    On the contrary, if you don't find raiding/questing/reaper farming at 30 fun either, feel free to continue your TRs. Honestly just find what you enjoy with the game and stick with it.
    Last edited by askrj1; 01-23-2019 at 11:42 AM.
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  3. #3

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    Yes, do them or you will end up back on the forums in a year talking about an unfair power creep that no one can keep up with, and demand free stuff.

  4. #4
    DDO Players Council Renvar's Avatar
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    A) Fun. Raids are fun. That's one thing they are for.

    B) Acquiring Reaper XP is fast at cap and reaper XP is very powerful for your character. More powerful than PL's to some degree. Raid runes and threads of fate are great to collect as they give you build flexibility (storing up the ability get items immediately on a gearing change or upgrade items), the future of the threads of fate is probably going to grow. All of these add power to your build.

    C) The level 30, geared character is the "completed build". If all you do is reincarnate, it feels to me like you are working towards something that you never get to play. I enjoy playing the character build as intended sometimes. Keeping it at cap and raiding and running reaper quests with it accomplishes this. (maybe an offshoot of A, but still).

    IMO, PL's are nice and all, but definitely have diminishing returns. A well geared toon with reaper points does not necessarily need a lot of PL's to be functional. (depending on build, etc) That's not to say that your choices are right or wrong. Everyone should do what they enjoy. If you are enjoying being on the TR/RR/IR/ER path, then enjoy! I've done that too and it can be very rewarding and fun.

    I have one that is triple racial completionist, heroic completionist, epic completionist, and iconic completionist. Another that is a completionist in all but racials (has 14 so far). And two others that are just heroic completionists and iconic, but working on racial and epic on those. I tend to keep 2 characters at cap for raiding and do that several times a week and otherwise, I'm working on the TR's. It creates a nice balance for me of both.

    YMMV
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  5. #5
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    DDO really has two categories of players.

    1> Those that TR constantly. Most of these people are less interested in end game raiding and more interested in racing to 20 or 30 and the TRing back to 0. I would consider most (not all) of these players more of the casual player. Most of these people are never going to make completionist (Note I said most). Most of these people might pug a raid or two for snits and shiggles...but will rarely spend the time acquiring the perfect legendary gear set. (for the record...I fall in this category)

    2> These are the power gamers. They already have completionist and the only challenge in the game is grinding out the ulitmate gear set and beating the top end content on the hardest difficulty. And once they have acheived that...they may graduate to attempting shortman and solo raids. The goals get adjusted for these folks when new content is released with new and better gear.

    3> I said 2 categories...but I guess a third would be new and casual players that will never even get a single past life. (Note: these people are just as important to the game as the power gamers).
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  6. #6
    Community Member Jetrule's Avatar
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    Yeah thats the conundrum of stay at cap or tr summed up. The solution I have employed is to have a at cap character and reincarnating leveling characters. The roles switch with me some times playing the at cap character for reaper points and gear farming and raiding, and some times playing the character I am leveling.

    I actually have three characters on this rotation. One at least is always at level 30 though.

    My "main" is a completionist and epic completionist he has the most reaper points (27). He only has three racial (gnome) lives though. He is the one currently at level 30 on a pure wiz EK build. I tend to park one at level 30 when it is powerful and fun to play So he took the place of my melee wolf melee focused character a couple of weeks ago for the level 30 spot. My other two are currently, slowly acquiring melee focused past lives for one and caster focused past lives for the other. Including from time to time a racial or iconic life. Often I will have one of these three dedicated to a weekly static group. There is the added benefit of being able to farm equipment with a level 30 for the lower level characters that need it and slowly accumulating raid runes for raid items for any characters current build needs.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    They are obviously designed around people having a full or near full set of legendary gear.

    Normal/hard basically has a drop rate of "by the time you get this, you wont need it". Unless you get lucky of course. Considering that you would need 2-3 months of raids to get enough runes to buy ONE item...most of which are not much better than RL gear...and you get to use it for a grand total of one day before you ETR...im seriously wondering if this is worth the effort.

    EE basically requires a near full set of legendary gear or you will get one shotted by trash mobs doing 1k+ damage per hit, and this is with wearing level 29 armor with +50 PRR. But if you have a full set of legendary gear, why are you trying to get more legendary gear by doing EE end game raids anyway...the people who want that gear are those without legendary gear...I mean sure, if you want to stay at cap and min-max your gear, but the reincarnation system is like, the main draw of DDO anyway...and most of the playerbase is probably trying to get completionist or whatever...

    Ive been doing end game raids like baba, strahd and KT. Baba/Strahd LFMs usually have a min level of 28, because again, if you arent in legendary gear, you are not going to do much. So I have a 1-2 day window to try and catch a LFM before I ETR, which doesnt help. Either way, most of the parties ive been in have only done normal or hard, because of the gear requirements. I basically did some calculations...while some of the raid gear is neat, level 29 Ravenloft gear is nearly as good (in some cases, is actually better) and has a realistic drop rate, while the raids will require 2-3 months of farming for one item (realistically speaking).

    And heres the thing. Since I need to TR a LOT to get class completion, racial completionist, 3x EPLs in each sphere, etc...even if i had top of the line raid gear, I only get to use it for 1 day before ETRing anyway. So whats the point?

    I mean, even if i farm heroic quests for gear, I get to use the gear for way longer and its actually important for running heroic quests on reaper. Legendary gear comes so late that it feels like it has very little use, in comparison.

    There are obvious exceptions to this...LGS weapons are nearly as good as RL weapons and are level 26, so you get to use them for quite a while. Thats great. Making a LGS weapon makes sense given that you can use it from 26-30 and they are pretty useful. The level 27 raid armor from tempest spine/hound is also pretty useful 27-30. But level 29 raid gear from KT does not make much sense to me because 29-30 is like, one days worth of EN dailies.

    I actually like doing epic chronoscope and VON because even if you dont get good loot, the xp is still really useful when leveling and chronoscope is nice and straight forward. But baba/strahd basically gives no xp whatsoever, and KT is merely "okay". But doing Baba/strahd feels like a huge chore...you spend so much of the raid doing puzzles or lighting torches or climbing stairs...this is not what I play DDO for really. I mean, who plays DDO because they love tile puzzles?

    I spent 41 mins to do KT on EN earlier today, granted, we screwed up the shadows and lord of blades fight so it took longer than it should have (we DPSed Kor Kaza down really quickly, so could have ended a lot earlier), but all I got was some threads and about 60 runes. I did some calculations and figured that it would take me 2-3 months at this rate to buy a single item...by which time I would probably be running a completely different build to get completionist...and had to ask myself if it was really worth it. At 30 mins per EN run, thats at least 10 hours of raid time, not counting time to get a party together or any mistakes. For a level 29 item that I get to use for one day before ETRing.

    Baba/strahd drops level 28 gear, but the problem still applies...you dont get to use the gear for long before you ETR. And i dont even like those raids. I honestly feel like im wasting my time by running these raids on EN/EH. But to run the raids on EE and be useful, you need a full set of legendary gear, at which point, I dont need the raid gear anymore. I mean, the whole point of me doing these raids is to get legendary gear...because right now i have nearly no legendary gear...if I have a full set of legendary gear, why would I be wasting hours and horus of my time running these raids that I dont even find fun? Theres no reason for me to stay at cap and min-max my gear till I get racial and class completionist at least, which is at least 9 months away.

    When leveling in heroics, I always felt that getting updated named loot from white plum mountain, dragon blood prophecy, etc, was useful. Even if it wasnt useful for my current build, it would be useful for a future build. But with the EN drop rates for raids, unless I want to spend 2-3 months sitting at cap with one build, im not going to get anything useful anyway. The game heavily encourages constant TRing...everyone knows this, its the main draw of DDO for most players. Your OP raid gear that you took 2-3 months to get is not very useful when you get to use it for 1 day before ETRing. And for that matter, you dont even need the OP raid gear because by the time you get it, you would have a full set of RL legendary gear anyway...which is perfectly fine for running legendary reaper...

    Its like spending 2-3 months farming a level 9 raid for gear when you could just do heroic ravenloft instead. Why even bother?

    At the moment it just seems to make more sense to focus on LGS (level 26 weapons, lasts for a while) and leg tempest/hound (level 27 armor) rather than waste time with baba/strahd/KT...especially as I dont even like baba/strahd and KT is pretty meh as well.

    Anyone else feel this way?

    You're not wrong. The "why bother" attitude happens in an environment cultivated by SSG. Why are there only a few popular raids? "Power creep invalidates 'old' gear" is a big reason.

    SSG uses power creep to sell the next thing in the store. thereby devaluing not only whatever is in your bank, but also existing content.

    Take a step back and relax. There is no need for the current new shiny. It will sentient fodder come the next update. If you're not VIP, that means you can skip purchasing new content because why bother. Wait 'til it is in the discount bin because of the next new shiny.

  8. #8
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    Default Bad XP was / is a mistake

    The biggest issue imo you and others have rightly pointed out is the bizarrely low XP of new raids.

    Running raids while ETRing for the XP alone should be a real thing. Shroud/von etc are great because they give everyone multiple reasons to come together and raid.

    30k xp for an at cap raid ? ... Just makes no sense. May as well have just made it 0 xp.

  9. #9
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Raids allow you to have fun with large groups of friends, as you work together towards a common goal. Pretty cool. If it's not fun why are you playing DDO?

    Raid loot is also very nice, and drops more than you'd expect (also it's frequently put up for roll because most people don't need everything). Even "older" raids often have very strong loot, especially now that some of the ML's of said loot were dropped.

    If you're a frequent TR person, maybe don't bother? But if you plan on staying at cap for a little bit (to farm RXP, have fun, run raids, etc) than they're quite worthwhile.

    If your issue is not being able to get stuff frequently, one option is to make a raid alt and park them at cap. That way when your guild is raiding or you see a LFM, you can swap over and get a few runes etc (and after a few runs you can use runes to buy whatever you want for your main).

    Quote Originally Posted by boredGamer View Post
    The biggest issue imo you and others have rightly pointed out is the bizarrely low XP of new raids.

    Running raids while ETRing for the XP alone should be a real thing. Shroud/von etc are great because they give everyone multiple reasons to come together and raid.

    30k xp for an at cap raid ? ... Just makes no sense. May as well have just made it 0 xp.
    I agree with this. LShroud is a great way for me to farm Karma, or level off-destinies, etc - at the cost of a bit of combat potential etc. For the new ones, it's not even a consideration, run in your best ED and get on with it.
    Last edited by SpartanKiller13; 01-23-2019 at 12:54 PM.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Selvera's Avatar
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    Hi there, Selvera here.

    I'm currently sitting at cap with my main (as of last weekend), and I have a "completed" set of legendary gear, including many raid items -> 2x legendary greensteel HP set, Molten Silver Gloves, Fleetfoot Necklace, and Duality. I also have a 7 slot sentient weapon filled with rare filigree. By your logic; I should TR right away. I have everything my build needs, I'm level 30 and I have all 4 epic domains capped so I can ETR in any of them easiliy. I also have 20 tokens, hundreds of heart seeds and thousands of commendations of valor, none of that stuff is stopping me. And yet I don't plan on doing the ETR/TR process for about a month. Why?

    1) I farm gear for my next life while I'm at cap. I might have a completed set of gear for a handwraps monk; but when I TR into a THF barbarian do I have a completed gearset? No, and when my THF barbarian next life gets to cap, I don't want to embarrass myself too much by wearing level 20 cannith crafted items trying to lead pugs through reaper ravenloft. So I raid to get top gear for my next build. I also want to get gear for my build after that; since I don't plan to stay at cap too long with my barbarian.

    2) Reaper xp. When I was leveling 1-20 on a monk, I was able to get maybe 5k reaper xp per day with a little effort. Yesterday I logged on and got 10k reaper xp by rerunning a handful of fairly easy quests at cap that I could comfortably lead a pug through. In my eyes, 1 reaper point = 1 pastlife in terms of the power it gives, and I want 4 more reaper points before I TR.

    3) Threads of Fate. I'm finally in a build where I feel I can earn threads of fate fairly easily; due to being able to carry pugs through the easier (thread giving) raids, and be a significant contributor in the harder raids. Threads that I plan to not only go towards the +2 filigree (for this and future at cap builds), but also to get those +3 tomes of MRR/PRR/MP/RP/USP, which will make heroic Tring just a little easier.

    4) Fun. As stated, a full set of legendary gear on an endgame build is my idea of a "completed" build, what I'm working towards as I do all those TR's. If I were just to TR constantly all the time, it would feel unfulfilling, working towards something I never get to play (because I'm not the powergamer who has triple-triple-triple completionist and has to buy TR timer resets). By sitting at cap for a while every few lives, I can feel like a completed build and fully utilize all that power that I've been working towards in my TR's.

    4.5) Hanging out with people at cap. Some people don't TR, some do but sit at cap most of the time; either because they TR so fast you barely miss them from being level 30. To hang with both these groups; sitting at 30 for a while lets you group up and hang out while killing stuff together. I find it harder to hang with the TR crowd; because everyone TR's at different speeds.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Chilldude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuulified View Post
    Yes, do them or you will end up back on the forums in a year talking about an unfair power creep that no one can keep up with, and demand free stuff.
    To me free stuff is when you give players an overabundance of power for simply running in a hamster wheel for 2-5 years.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Epicstorms's Avatar
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    Fun.

    At some point you will realise that grinding all pastlives and RXP is not needed in DDO.

    DDO is not a hard or challenging game at all. Higher skulls usually just means it's more tedious, not more challenging. But that's my opinion.

    The only challenge I find is working together in raids where sometimes actual teamwork is required.

    You can't find this in quests where you can just solo everything, even on R10 on a character that isn't triple this or triple that.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    To me free stuff is when you give players an overabundance of power for simply running in a hamster wheel for 2-5 years.
    So what I'm hearing is, it is available to everyone and there is no reason to give that free stuff any other way... lmao.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loromir View Post
    DDO really has two categories of players.

    1> Those that TR constantly. Most of these people are less interested in end game raiding and more interested in racing to 20 or 30 and the TRing back to 0. I would consider most (not all) of these players more of the casual player. Most of these people are never going to make completionist (Note I said most). Most of these people might pug a raid or two for snits and shiggles...but will rarely spend the time acquiring the perfect legendary gear set. (for the record...I fall in this category)

    2> These are the power gamers. They already have completionist and the only challenge in the game is grinding out the ulitmate gear set and beating the top end content on the hardest difficulty. And once they have acheived that...they may graduate to attempting shortman and solo raids. The goals get adjusted for these folks when new content is released with new and better gear.

    3> I said 2 categories...but I guess a third would be new and casual players that will never even get a single past life. (Note: these people are just as important to the game as the power gamers).
    I would like to think it's more of a spectrum than strict poles. Game stops being fun when you have to shoehorn yourself into one of them if you don't enjoy a paraticular style.
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
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    Raiding might be interesting when Sharn comes out - it will depend on whether PITA mechanics and # of raids needed to make meaningful progress limit interest. Right now interest level seems extremely low on Sarlona (close to an all-time low if not at an all-time low) especially considering how recently they tried to incentive raiding better. Alt play is certainly at an all-time low which hurts raiding.

    Alot of people are done with racial tr but relatively few people are nearing the end of the reaper grind. While raiding and reaper grind aren't mutually exclusive, raiding seems like a very inefficient way to get reaper points especially considering the population issues on most servers.

    At this point nothing will change before Sharn so your efforts would be better spent commenting on the raids on Lamania rather than complain about current raiding, although generally the devs have been listening to feedback that limits interest in raids rather than feedback that would encourage more people to raid.

  16. #16
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    You know, I thought about this a bit
    I was lucky, that when ravenloft came out, the raid scene was robust on Sarlona. I guess it had to do with the power creep offered by rl. Seems everybody wanted some.
    So I've been lucky to play raid winds. Certainly, it's the best gear in the game. And mostly for cap toons becoming their best. Because there's nothing like having best in slot for your toon. Like on my monk I have 4 oc of raid gear. You know you're kicking ass when you're raid geared.
    But right now Sarlona is raid dead. All the vets have finished racials, there aren't no deep reap teams, it's like ppl are playing other games.
    So that what I wanted to talk about, is cycles.
    I purposely stopped tring and went into raid mode, because it was being run. Gotta catch that train as it passes. So I camped 30 and raided and got bookoo gear. For some different builds. I don't expect the raid scene to jump start again until Sharn, when the ppls will return for new loot, new quests, and likely power creep. So I got it while it was hot. And now there is down time, a dead zone in between expansions. And I returned to heroics to work on some racials and see some builds and trees. I haven't raided in couple months, and I'm known as a raider. Ive got an alt cleric parked at 30, but just gets no play time. I've collected zero rune and threads. I just don't care really.
    But the difference there is if you're in a raiding guild. Then I would be farming still. But I'm a pugger, so I get mine when it comes around. Pops seem low right now, even tho I'm seeing lots new ppl. But there just isn't the raid scene ATM. But when it comes back, aka Sharn, I'll build something to 30 and farm it. But it's all about the best gear in the game. Gotta have it. It makes you feel bigger. And accomplished. Tr means nothing unless you're running that toon capped and raiding.
    Vishantii (the bird man)
    Kil (heroic and epic completionist)

    Sarlona, Heart of Wisdom

  17. #17
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    no you shouldnt. in fact you should uninstall never come to the forums again and go outside. i hear its nice out there
    main toons: hauteur(silly caster) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly paladin)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

  18. #18
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    Quick reply to some of the points raised :

    - I dont find baba/strahd fun due to mechanics. I doubt anyone plays DDO to do puzzles or climb stairs or open random crypt doors. KT is OK but chasing the boss got old really quickly, as well as waiting for the boss to do stuff. Chronoscope is fun, we need more raids like that instead of "hey guys lets stop players from fighting stuff and make them do puzzles lol".

    - I dont feel rewarded by the end game raids at all, the odds of getting a named item to drop is too low and you need to spend 2-3 months grinding the raids to get enough runes to buy ONE named item...whereas the game is all about trying out different builds for different racial/class past lives. Compare that to the heroic progression where you get items/xp naturally as you progress with your past lives. And they give so little xp it doesnt help you level at all.

    -If you run RL once or twice in a party, you are probably going to get some useful stuff per life, that works for your build or some other build in the future. That doesnt work with end game raids. You need to farm them for 2-3 months, for one item, that isnt even that much better than the full set of RL gear you probably already have.

    - The whole "get tons of rxp at cap" thing is a meme. I found this out the hard way when I realised I would need a full set of legendary gear to be useful in end game reaper, and most vets only do r3+ or above due to the first time bonus. Ive gotten more rxp in 1 heroic past life than 3 epic past lives simply because you can do heroic reaper without a full set of optimized gear (i did it on first life even). The only rxp ive gotten in epic lives is by being carried by the occasional open LFM. You cant melee anything because mob damage assumes you have full insightful/quality PRR bonuses from legendary gear, so you get 2-3 shotted without said gear. And hitting 10k hp mobs while doing less than 150 damage per hit is a waste of time.

    - The entire game is designed around getting past lives, racial AP, class completionist and racial completionist to make your character stronger at the same level, you can ignore that if you want but thats like refusing to level a sentient weapon or refusing to run quests with the bravery bonus for more xp...you are basically gimping yourself.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    They are obviously designed around people having a full or near full set of legendary gear.

    Normal/hard basically has a drop rate of "by the time you get this, you wont need it". Unless you get lucky of course. Considering that you would need 2-3 months of raids to get enough runes to buy ONE item...most of which are not much better than RL gear...and you get to use it for a grand total of one day before you ETR...im seriously wondering if this is worth the effort.

    EE basically requires a near full set of legendary gear or you will get one shotted by trash mobs doing 1k+ damage per hit, and this is with wearing level 29 armor with +50 PRR. But if you have a full set of legendary gear, why are you trying to get more legendary gear by doing EE end game raids anyway...the people who want that gear are those without legendary gear...I mean sure, if you want to stay at cap and min-max your gear, but the reincarnation system is like, the main draw of DDO anyway...and most of the playerbase is probably trying to get completionist or whatever...

    Ive been doing end game raids like baba, strahd and KT. Baba/Strahd LFMs usually have a min level of 28, because again, if you arent in legendary gear, you are not going to do much. So I have a 1-2 day window to try and catch a LFM before I ETR, which doesnt help. Either way, most of the parties ive been in have only done normal or hard, because of the gear requirements. I basically did some calculations...while some of the raid gear is neat, level 29 Ravenloft gear is nearly as good (in some cases, is actually better) and has a realistic drop rate, while the raids will require 2-3 months of farming for one item (realistically speaking).

    And heres the thing. Since I need to TR a LOT to get class completion, racial completionist, 3x EPLs in each sphere, etc...even if i had top of the line raid gear, I only get to use it for 1 day before ETRing anyway. So whats the point?

    I mean, even if i farm heroic quests for gear, I get to use the gear for way longer and its actually important for running heroic quests on reaper. Legendary gear comes so late that it feels like it has very little use, in comparison.

    There are obvious exceptions to this...LGS weapons are nearly as good as RL weapons and are level 26, so you get to use them for quite a while. Thats great. Making a LGS weapon makes sense given that you can use it from 26-30 and they are pretty useful. The level 27 raid armor from tempest spine/hound is also pretty useful 27-30. But level 29 raid gear from KT does not make much sense to me because 29-30 is like, one days worth of EN dailies.

    I actually like doing epic chronoscope and VON because even if you dont get good loot, the xp is still really useful when leveling and chronoscope is nice and straight forward. But baba/strahd basically gives no xp whatsoever, and KT is merely "okay". But doing Baba/strahd feels like a huge chore...you spend so much of the raid doing puzzles or lighting torches or climbing stairs...this is not what I play DDO for really. I mean, who plays DDO because they love tile puzzles?

    I spent 41 mins to do KT on EN earlier today, granted, we screwed up the shadows and lord of blades fight so it took longer than it should have (we DPSed Kor Kaza down really quickly, so could have ended a lot earlier), but all I got was some threads and about 60 runes. I did some calculations and figured that it would take me 2-3 months at this rate to buy a single item...by which time I would probably be running a completely different build to get completionist...and had to ask myself if it was really worth it. At 30 mins per EN run, thats at least 10 hours of raid time, not counting time to get a party together or any mistakes. For a level 29 item that I get to use for one day before ETRing.

    Baba/strahd drops level 28 gear, but the problem still applies...you dont get to use the gear for long before you ETR. And i dont even like those raids. I honestly feel like im wasting my time by running these raids on EN/EH. But to run the raids on EE and be useful, you need a full set of legendary gear, at which point, I dont need the raid gear anymore. I mean, the whole point of me doing these raids is to get legendary gear...because right now i have nearly no legendary gear...if I have a full set of legendary gear, why would I be wasting hours and horus of my time running these raids that I dont even find fun? Theres no reason for me to stay at cap and min-max my gear till I get racial and class completionist at least, which is at least 9 months away.

    When leveling in heroics, I always felt that getting updated named loot from white plum mountain, dragon blood prophecy, etc, was useful. Even if it wasnt useful for my current build, it would be useful for a future build. But with the EN drop rates for raids, unless I want to spend 2-3 months sitting at cap with one build, im not going to get anything useful anyway. The game heavily encourages constant TRing...everyone knows this, its the main draw of DDO for most players. Your OP raid gear that you took 2-3 months to get is not very useful when you get to use it for 1 day before ETRing. And for that matter, you dont even need the OP raid gear because by the time you get it, you would have a full set of RL legendary gear anyway...which is perfectly fine for running legendary reaper...

    Its like spending 2-3 months farming a level 9 raid for gear when you could just do heroic ravenloft instead. Why even bother?

    At the moment it just seems to make more sense to focus on LGS (level 26 weapons, lasts for a while) and leg tempest/hound (level 27 armor) rather than waste time with baba/strahd/KT...especially as I dont even like baba/strahd and KT is pretty meh as well.

    Anyone else feel this way?
    You consider playing only a collection of gear.

    Maybe sometimes have fun?
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    Aborim Master (main toon) --- Nickallin (my tank)--- Jjnick (warlock 30) --- Nickpunick ()--- Nickruvido (my healer)--- Nickallinone (shuri build)
    GODS

  20. #20
    Community Member Maldorin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post

    - The whole "get tons of rxp at cap" thing is a meme. I found this out the hard way when I realised I would need a full set of legendary gear to be useful in end game reaper, and most vets only do r3+ or above due to the first time bonus. Ive gotten more rxp in 1 heroic past life than 3 epic past lives simply because you can do heroic reaper without a full set of optimized gear (i did it on first life even). The only rxp ive gotten in epic lives is by being carried by the occasional open LFM. You cant melee anything because mob damage assumes you have full insightful/quality PRR bonuses from legendary gear, so you get 2-3 shotted without said gear. And hitting 10k hp mobs while doing less than 150 damage per hit is a waste of time.
    If you prefer heroic, play heroic.

    I do not like heroic. So I play epic and play at cap a while for reaper XP and raids then TR when I feel like it. After returning from a long break it took me a bit to get set up but seriously, RL gear alone is fine for cap play.

    Not sure about the R3 only for first time bonuses thing. My friends and I are finding R3 is where it begins to be challenging, as long as we're not seriously underlevel. Now if I'm level 23 doing Ravenloft yeah, R2 please

    Do you solo a lot? I don't like soloing legendary Reaper. It's much more fun and efficient to group. Build quality really matters and melees are challenging. It's what I usually play. I have very little raid gear and only a handful of past lifes. 15 reaper points. I do just fine in reaper but I've never run above R6. Shrug.

    All that being said, I finally ran the RL raids a couple months ago for the first time. I wasn't blown away. They're just ok. I hate puzzles. So stupid. I've never understood its place in a dungeons and dragons setting. If I have a character with a 90 Int but I as a player am horrible at puzzles...which one should matter? That and jumping skill challenges irk me. It should be about the character not the keyboard operator. / Rant off

    But I like raids for the grouping with others dynamic and the interesting things it adds to the game experience. Fun being one.

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