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  1. #1
    Developer Torc's Avatar
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    Default New Feat: Knight' s Training

    Hey guys, just wanted to give you a quick heads up on a new martial feat that we’re introducing in the upcoming anniversary patch. It’s called…

    …………

    Knight’s Training:

    Description: You have undergone rigorous military training with the traditional weapons of war. These weapons receive one of the following morale bonuses in your hands.

    • Longsword critical multiplier is increased by 1
    • Battle Axes critical threat range is increased by 1. Increased by 2 if you have slashing improved critical
    • Heavy Maces, Morning Stars & War Hammers critical threat range is increased by 1

    Requires: +4 BAB
    Martial Feat (Fighter bonus feats can be used to take this)

    ……………

    A quick faq on this new feat:

    1. Why make this feat? We want players to have more options for their melee DPS builds, so we are equalizing some weapons to be at least closer, if not equal to, the power of the Khopesh. Due to the way crit bonuses become rather great by epic levels, the Khopesh’s superior crit numbers can make it mathematically the only one-handed choice for many builds, and we prefer a more diverse weapon choice for players seeking top DPS

    2. What about OTHER weapons? Depending on how this feat goes we will likely introduce other feats or enhancements that handle other sets of weapons. Certain weapons just might not have the itemization pool to really be viable yet, so some weapons will come slower than others.

    3. Morale Bonus? Will that stack? Morale bonus has never been used with crit threat or mod before, so it will stack with everything currently in the game. This is more a consideration for effects down the road.

    4. Hey Maces/Hammers/etc aren’t equal (unless I go Aasimar Maces) Because bludgeon DR is probably the most common DR due to skeletons we’ve kept maces a little lower for now.

    -Torc
    Last edited by Torc; 01-16-2019 at 02:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    Is the +threat going to be doubled by the Improved Critical feat?

    Or will a battle axe end up 18x3 vs a khopesh 17x3?

  3. #3
    DDO QA Team Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by btolson View Post
    Is the +threat going to be doubled by the Improved Critical feat?

    Or will a battle axe end up 18x3 vs a khopesh 17x3?
    Improved Critical feat gives a static number amount of addition to critical threat range equal to doubling what the normal base range of the weapon type is. It does not multiply any additional bonuses.
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  4. #4
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Improved Critical feat gives a static number amount of addition to critical threat range equal to doubling what the normal base range of the weapon type is. It does not multiply any additional bonuses.
    Except in the case of Swashbuckling.

    And possibly this, hence the question.

  5. #5
    Developer Torc's Avatar
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    Default Battle axes will be massaged up in cases of improved crit

    For the battle axe when the player has both knight's training and improved crit we will give an additional bonus to equalize it. We do something similar with swashbuckler, I'll update the post.

    We're not inclined to do that with the blunts because of dreadnought.

    -T
    Last edited by Cordovan; 01-16-2019 at 02:46 PM.

  6. #6
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    Hey guys, just wanted to give you a quick heads up on a new martial feat that we’re introducing in the upcoming anniversary patch. It’s called…

    …………

    Knight’s Training:

    Description: You have undergone rigorous military training with the traditional weapons of war. These weapons receive one of the following morale bonuses in your hands.

    • Longsword critical multiplier is increased by 1
    • Battle axes critical threat range is increased by 1
    • Mace, Morning Stars & Hammers critical threat range is increased by 1

    Requires: +4 BAB
    Martial Feat (Fighter bonus feats can be used to take this)

    ……………

    A quick faq on this new feat:

    1. Why make this feat? We want players to have more options for their melee DPS builds, so we are equalizing some weapons to be at least closer, if not equal to, the power of the Khopesh. Due to the way crit bonuses become rather great by epic levels, the Khopesh’s superior crit numbers can make it mathematically the only one-handed choice for many builds, and we prefer a more diverse weapon choice for players seeking top DPS

    2. What about OTHER weapons? Depending on how this feat goes we will likely introduce other feats or enhancements that handle other sets of weapons. Certain weapons just might not have the itemization pool to really be viable yet, so some weapons will come slower than others.

    3. Morale Bonus? Will that stack? Morale bonus has never been used with crit threat or mod before, so it will stack with everything currently in the game. This is more a consideration for effects down the road.

    4. Hey Maces/Hammers/etc aren’t equal (unless I go Aasimar Maces) Because bludgeon DR is probably the most common DR due to skeletons we’ve kept maces a little lower for now.

    -Torc
    i love your work for the melee community and hope your efforts aren't cut in half by complaints of the part of the community that barely plays melees!

    i hope to see a version for bastard swords and dwarven axes soon.

    Talking about dwarves, any chance of a small fix in throw your weight around to include a bonus to hit?

  7. #7
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    Thanks.

    If at all possible, for you guys' next trick along these lines.

    Let us spend a feat so Warhammers or some other blunt weapon(s) can get glancing blows with shields.

    As an S&B toon with THF mastery, swapping to a bludgeon is a frustrating choice. You have to do some serious to math to figure out if the DR makes up for losing your GBs.

    I'd rather just spend a feat than run all them calculations.

  8. #8
    Bounty Hunter
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    I like it, it will be good to see long sword actually getting played.

  9. #9
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I like it, it will be good to see long sword actually getting played.
    All the long swords i been keeping can finally get some use

  10. #10

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    Excellent! Please integrate this into whirling steel strike feat so the teeny tiny world of non-shuri weaponized monks can consider longswords again.

    edit: will this feat give proficiencies in thise weapons too?

    With some very good expanded threat longswords out there, this could be cool
    Last edited by Saekee; 01-16-2019 at 03:11 PM.
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  11. #11
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” ~ J.R.R. Tolkien
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  12. #12
    Community Member Annex's Avatar
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    YAY!

    Long Swords serve as a founding stone of many Fantasy, Historic, and Legendary traditions. It is wonderful to see them restored to importance in Dungeons & Dragons.

    Please consider finding a place for the combination of Rapier and Main-gauche. In History and an entire sub-genre of Romance writing, those two weapons occupy a very important place. To this very day, some fencing instructors still teach the style, unlike many of the utterly preposterous combinations allowed in DDO. If you could nudge the art department to add a proper Flamberge Raiper that would also be wonderful. Ladies need more proper weapons!
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  13. #13
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    Um . . . hmm.

    I dunno. It's a tough call, and I'm not sure that a feat is the best way to go about this. *Currently*, the way weapon differences are addressed is to put the build options into specific enhancement trees. So if you invest in this tree or that tree in different ways, different weapons become more useful, particularly if you can find a weapon with its own stat quirks.

    To me, the fact that you want to jigger with those specific weapons indicates that the places where you'd normally get bonuses to those weapons aren't favorable enough. Longsword, morningstar, and war hammers are all three of them deity weapons. Are those deity bonuses good enough?

    And, now that we're on the subject of weapon types . . . could you please explain to me what, if anything, is the DIFFERENCE between a Morningstar and a Heavy Mace? They are both simple weapons that do a base 1d8 bludgeoning damage and have a 20/x2 crit. They are EXACTLY. THE. SAME. WHY are they DIFFERENT weapons?! In pen and paper a morningstar at least does bludgeon AND piercing damage, so I'd suggest making that change to distinguish between the two of them at least a LITTLE.

    What might also be interesting is if you were to replace the proficiency feats with a series of "training" feats, so that the training feat *also* grants you proficiency with the listed weapons if you didn't already have it.

  14. #14
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post

    …………

    Knight’s Training:

    Description: You have undergone rigorous military training with the traditional weapons of war. These weapons receive one of the following morale bonuses in your hands.

    • Longsword critical multiplier is increased by 1
    I smell dual Soulrazors + LOTS of Healing Amp builds!
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  15. #15
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    So in essence we will have weapons for which you have to take a feat to get proficiency, and other weapons for which you have to take a feat to maximize their potential. Seems balanced, I guess. Essentially you then wind up picking your weapon and feat more by flavor than anything else. It does seem to me to tilt the table slightly in favor of Fighters, who have lots of feat slots to fit this into, but maybe that's not a bad thing.
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  16. #16
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    I love this idea

  17. #17
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by btolson View Post
    Thanks.

    If at all possible, for you guys' next trick along these lines.

    Let us spend a feat so Warhammers or some other blunt weapon(s) can get glancing blows with shields.

    As an S&B toon with THF mastery, swapping to a bludgeon is a frustrating choice. You have to do some serious to math to figure out if the DR makes up for losing your GBs.

    I'd rather just spend a feat than run all them calculations.
    Or possibly merge BSword & DAxe proficiencies, with some bludgeon GB proficiency, into a single "Hand And a Half Fighting" feat.

    People only take one or the other (BS/DA) currently. Merging those 2 proficiencies along with a Bludgeon conversion would allow flexibility, without punishing e.g. Paladins more than Fighters (any class just needs 1 feat to be an S&B GB fighter, with freedom to swap between BS/DA/some bludgeon).

  18. #18
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
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    Could you allow this feat to also add glancing blows for long swords and battle axes while a shield is equipped? There are very few Dwaven axes and Bastard swords available in the raid tier.

    Also please consider adding this feat in addition to Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery and Legendary Shield Mastery Improved Shield Bash and Shield Deflection to count towards the hit point bonus of Epic Defensive fighting.

  19. #19
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    Another option would be to have a single feat that provides proficiency in Bastard Sword, Dwarven Axe, & Khopesh and improves the crit profiles of all other weapons. Just call it something like "Weapons Mastery"
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  20. #20
    Community Member Selvera's Avatar
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    I like it, about the same power level and cost as exotic weapon proficiency feats.
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