Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Community Member Knightrose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Chicky-G
    Posts
    791

    Default I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna try Bard.

    ...what build should I try? Looking for something to be fun and useful all the way through epics. I have 36 pt builds and 4 Past Lives. 1 Druid, 1 Warlock, 1 Artificer and 1 Paladin + an Epic. (healing/Hp stance).
    "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."

    The Burning Hand ~ Sarlona
    (\/)annaz ~ (\/)annox ~ (\/)anny ~ (\/)annfred

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    18

    Default

    I was in your shoes just a few weeks ago. Decided to try bard and it felt like jumping off of the high dive... Most of the builds listed on here were prior to the recent bard pass and I didn't know how that would change things. I just started with the build in this post: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...64#post6169464

    From what I have seen it would depend on how you would like to play as to what build you should choose. Also If you have Harper tree, or Vistani Knife Fighter, Favored Soul or PDK... If you want pure or a splash. Common splashes seem to be Rogue or Favored Soul or PDK, but I have also seen others.

    I apologize if I didn't answer your questions but those that have the better answers will likely need this information to help you out.

  3. #3
    Community Member Knightrose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Chicky-G
    Posts
    791

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenlockless View Post
    I was in your shoes just a few weeks ago. Decided to try bard and it felt like jumping off of the high dive... Most of the builds listed on here were prior to the recent bard pass and I didn't know how that would change things. I just started with the build in this post: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...64#post6169464

    From what I have seen it would depend on how you would like to play as to what build you should choose. Also If you have Harper tree, or Vistani Knife Fighter, Favored Soul or PDK... If you want pure or a splash. Common splashes seem to be Rogue or Favored Soul or PDK, but I have also seen others.

    I apologize if I didn't answer your questions but those that have the better answers will likely need this information to help you out.
    I highly appreciate the response. What you wrote gave me more to think about and some things I didn't consider. Thank you. Will definitely do my homework. I didn't do my homework with Paladin and it has been a completely non fun struggle.
    "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."

    The Burning Hand ~ Sarlona
    (\/)annaz ~ (\/)annox ~ (\/)anny ~ (\/)annfred

  4. #4
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,384

    Default

    The bard I'm currently playing hits a degree of well-roundedness I quite like (doing this off memory, so some details are sketchy).

    It's Vistani Based
    16 Bard - 15 might generally be a better choice (getting another feat by going 4 fighter), but I wanted access to level 6 spells, especially the healing, so I could destiny respec into a healing role easier.
    3 Fighter - The 3rd fighter level was for access to defensive stance, if I want it (currently don't)
    1 FVS: Bonus to tactics based on charisma

    Note, that this build misses out on evasion. I haven't noticed that as being a big problem.

    I'm currently drow, which works well enough, but I'd be keen on human as I always seem feat strapped.

    Stats:
    Cha: max: dam, stun DCs, temp heal proc
    Rest into dex and con: to hit and hp

    Skills: perform, balance (needed 7 for gSWF), UMD, Heal, Spellcraft (Fan of Knives), Jump
    Feats:

    Run through a character planner first to make sure you hit all pre-reqs etc:
    1) SWF
    3) Precision
    6) Extend (or else your displace and haste are short)
    9) iSWF
    10) Fighter: Weapon Finesse
    11) Fighter: Improved Critical: Pierce
    12) Shield Mastery
    15) gSWF
    18) Empower Healing (for cacoon)
    21) Improved Shield Mastery
    24) Overwhelming Critical
    26) pSWF or pTWF, probably depending on equipment
    27) Inspire Excellence
    28) Tactician
    29 Dire charge
    30) Improved Shield Bash
    30) Astral Plane

    Human Bonus: Quicken/Maximise

    Enhancements:
    Vistani: 41AP
    All Cores
    Tier 1: Mist Stalker / Rapid Attack
    Tier 2: Bleeding Cuts, Mist Stalker, Haste Boost (only until Leg Dread)
    Tier 3: Fan of Knives (get some force power), Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades, Charisma
    Tier 4: Celerity, Mist Stalker, Single Dagger, Charisma
    Tier 5: Mist Stalker, Blessed Blades, Vendetta

    **Note** Remaining point to get to 40 are spent on Knife Training Enhancements *first one only costs 1, others cost 2)

    Warchanter: 21AP
    Cores: 1-4, to Fighting Spirit for temp hp proc (based on cha)
    Tier 1: Enchant Weapon, Rough and Ready
    Tier 2: Iced Edges, Sprint 1
    Tier 3: Frozen Fury, Ironskin Chant, Cha

    Swashbuckler: 15 AP
    Cores: 1, 2, 3
    Tier 1: whatever you want 4
    Tier 2: En Point 2, Fast Movement
    Tier 3: Skirmisher (ability to use a shield while swashbuckling), Different Tack (cha to damage)

    War Soul: 4AP
    Divine Presence (ou gain an Insight bonus to melee damage and the DC of tactical feats equal to 1/2 of your Charisma modifier - this stacks with insight gear etc)


    Destiny: Leg Dread (unless main healing role, then Unyielding Sentinal or Exalted Angel)

    Twists (26 points)

    Tier 4: Sense Weakness
    Tier 2: Legendary Shield Mastery
    Tier 2: Lithe
    Tier 1: Cacoon

    5th: lots of tier 1s to choose from

    Gear:
    Standard Melee Gear
    + Stunning
    + Heal/Force

    The Build:
    Single Target DPS: Strong. Using Vistani and daggers it goes well straight out of the gate, with Rapid Attack and Haste Boost / Swashbuckling all coming early. Freeze attacks and Sense Weakness = good trash dps, while boss dps is decent. I like this Vistani base, as DDO so heavily favours dps builds.

    AOE DPS: Weak. Fan of Knives (uses melee power and force), can do nice damage, but it is on a cool down. En Point is ok - I actually like En Point, combined with guard breaking for CC.

    CC: Strong: Frozen Fury is a nice stun, every 6 seconds. Dire charge is a good aoe stun. You still have fascinate for emergencies. Good crit profile/En Point and Guard Breaking for dazing.

    Defenses: Moderate/Good. You can get to 200+ PRR, decent dodge, displace, ghostly. This combined with some emergency buttons: uncanny dodge and Mist Stalker V, means short term survivability is good. Not as good vs high sustained damage. My HP tends to be lower than most, as I don't run in epic defensive fighting, as I want to throw heals, but I still find the survivability pretty good for most situations.

    Buffs: OK. Has some bard buffs in there.

    Healing: OK in base build. Use fighting spirit, temp HP proc, and cacoon, + regular heals. Can spec into a healing destiny. Early levels, used Wand and Scroll Mastery enhancement in Spellsinger, if you can afford it, and scroll/wand heal.
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrose View Post
    I highly appreciate the response. What you wrote gave me more to think about and some things I didn't consider. Thank you. Will definitely do my homework. I didn't do my homework with Paladin and it has been a completely non fun struggle.
    I'm happy to help. I actually made a post on my guild site saying I wanted to try a class outside of my comfort zone and felt the choices would be either Bard or Pally. I'll still want to do Paladin at some time and its good to know it requires a good plan as well. I prefer to play the classes and get the feel for how they are meant to be, not just get the past life out of the way with the same base build/play style for everything. This is also why I wanted to go non-Iconic.

    As far as your bard build, have you decided the type you would like to go for? Melee vs CC or a mix. Bards can do many things but not excel at them all at the same time. Once you decide the direction you want and give information about what you have access to, you can then start looking at the specific build options.

  6. #6
    Community Member Knightrose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Chicky-G
    Posts
    791

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown View Post
    The bard I'm currently playing hits a degree of well-roundedness I quite like (doing this off memory, so some details are sketchy).

    It's Vistani Based
    16 Bard - 15 might generally be a better choice (getting another feat by going 4 fighter), but I wanted access to level 6 spells, especially the healing, so I could destiny respec into a healing role easier.
    3 Fighter - The 3rd fighter level was for access to defensive stance, if I want it (currently don't)
    1 FVS: Bonus to tactics based on charisma

    Note, that this build misses out on evasion. I haven't noticed that as being a big problem.

    I'm currently drow, which works well enough, but I'd be keen on human as I always seem feat strapped.

    Stats:
    Cha: max: dam, stun DCs, temp heal proc
    Rest into dex and con: to hit and hp

    Skills: perform, balance (needed 7 for gSWF), UMD, Heal, Spellcraft (Fan of Knives), Jump
    Feats:

    Run through a character planner first to make sure you hit all pre-reqs etc:
    1) SWF
    3) Precision
    6) Extend (or else your displace and haste are short)
    9) iSWF
    10) Fighter: Weapon Finesse
    11) Fighter: Improved Critical: Pierce
    12) Shield Mastery
    15) gSWF
    18) Empower Healing (for cacoon)
    21) Improved Shield Mastery
    24) Overwhelming Critical
    26) pSWF or pTWF, probably depending on equipment
    27) Inspire Excellence
    28) Tactician
    29 Dire charge
    30) Improved Shield Bash
    30) Astral Plane

    Human Bonus: Quicken/Maximise

    Enhancements:
    Vistani: 41AP
    All Cores
    Tier 1: Mist Stalker / Rapid Attack
    Tier 2: Bleeding Cuts, Mist Stalker, Haste Boost (only until Leg Dread)
    Tier 3: Fan of Knives (get some force power), Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades, Charisma
    Tier 4: Celerity, Mist Stalker, Single Dagger, Charisma
    Tier 5: Mist Stalker, Blessed Blades, Vendetta

    **Note** Remaining point to get to 40 are spent on Knife Training Enhancements *first one only costs 1, others cost 2)

    Warchanter: 21AP
    Cores: 1-4, to Fighting Spirit for temp hp proc (based on cha)
    Tier 1: Enchant Weapon, Rough and Ready
    Tier 2: Iced Edges, Sprint 1
    Tier 3: Frozen Fury, Ironskin Chant, Cha

    Swashbuckler: 15 AP
    Cores: 1, 2, 3
    Tier 1: whatever you want 4
    Tier 2: En Point 2, Fast Movement
    Tier 3: Skirmisher (ability to use a shield while swashbuckling), Different Tack (cha to damage)

    War Soul: 4AP
    Divine Presence (ou gain an Insight bonus to melee damage and the DC of tactical feats equal to 1/2 of your Charisma modifier - this stacks with insight gear etc)


    Destiny: Leg Dread (unless main healing role, then Unyielding Sentinal or Exalted Angel)

    Twists (26 points)

    Tier 4: Sense Weakness
    Tier 2: Legendary Shield Mastery
    Tier 2: Lithe
    Tier 1: Cacoon

    5th: lots of tier 1s to choose from

    Gear:
    Standard Melee Gear
    + Stunning
    + Heal/Force

    The Build:
    Single Target DPS: Strong. Using Vistani and daggers it goes well straight out of the gate, with Rapid Attack and Haste Boost / Swashbuckling all coming early. Freeze attacks and Sense Weakness = good trash dps, while boss dps is decent. I like this Vistani base, as DDO so heavily favours dps builds.

    AOE DPS: Weak. Fan of Knives (uses melee power and force), can do nice damage, but it is on a cool down. En Point is ok - I actually like En Point, combined with guard breaking for CC.

    CC: Strong: Frozen Fury is a nice stun, every 6 seconds. Dire charge is a good aoe stun. You still have fascinate for emergencies. Good crit profile/En Point and Guard Breaking for dazing.

    Defenses: Moderate/Good. You can get to 200+ PRR, decent dodge, displace, ghostly. This combined with some emergency buttons: uncanny dodge and Mist Stalker V, means short term survivability is good. Not as good vs high sustained damage. My HP tends to be lower than most, as I don't run in epic defensive fighting, as I want to throw heals, but I still find the survivability pretty good for most situations.

    Buffs: OK. Has some bard buffs in there.

    Healing: OK in base build. Use fighting spirit, temp HP proc, and cacoon, + regular heals. Can spec into a healing destiny. Early levels, used Wand and Scroll Mastery enhancement in Spellsinger, if you can afford it, and scroll/wand heal.
    That looks awesomely fun. Thanks for the reply.
    "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."

    The Burning Hand ~ Sarlona
    (\/)annaz ~ (\/)annox ~ (\/)anny ~ (\/)annfred

  7. #7
    Community Member Knightrose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Chicky-G
    Posts
    791

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenlockless View Post
    I'm happy to help. I actually made a post on my guild site saying I wanted to try a class outside of my comfort zone and felt the choices would be either Bard or Pally. I'll still want to do Paladin at some time and its good to know it requires a good plan as well. I prefer to play the classes and get the feel for how they are meant to be, not just get the past life out of the way with the same base build/play style for everything. This is also why I wanted to go non-Iconic.

    As far as your bard build, have you decided the type you would like to go for? Melee vs CC or a mix. Bards can do many things but not excel at them all at the same time. Once you decide the direction you want and give information about what you have access to, you can then start looking at the specific build options.
    I like Melee DPS with CC. I don't mind playing any setup but in my heart I'm a bruiser. Tanky melee, basically. The above build is cool and I like the idea of shouting Bard. I read that somehwere but cant find it now.
    "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."

    The Burning Hand ~ Sarlona
    (\/)annaz ~ (\/)annox ~ (\/)anny ~ (\/)annfred

  8. #8
    Community Member donweel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Sonic Bard is fun but damage numbers are not the best without specific gear, you need hammer of leaden clouds or mad lute. If you get the stun is worthwhile. In the early days was my main build but I have gone to a more Count of Monte Cristo build. Used to be some builds around ca’t find them any more. I think swashbuckler kind of finished the concept off.




    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrose View Post
    I like Melee DPS with CC. I don't mind playing any setup but in my heart I'm a bruiser. Tanky melee, basically. The above build is cool and I like the idea of shouting Bard. I read that somehwere but cant find it now.

  9. #9
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,245

    Default

    Because Bards do not gain "Charisma-to-Hit" the best choice is PDK if you plan on going past Heroic

    PDK (w/Charisma-to-Hit/Damage) + KtA = very nice Combat DC's. Unfortunately it does "pigeon hole" you into specific weapons. But gives you the best ability to avoid Glancing Blows in Legendary/Reaper content.

    14/6 Bard/Fighter
    12/6/2 Bard/Fighter/Rogue
    17/3 Bard/Fighter
    + I am sure there have been other created since then.
    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

  10. #10
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    829

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Because Bards do not gain "Charisma-to-Hit" the best choice is PDK if you plan on going past Heroic
    CKT locks you into Short Sword, which isn't a particularly strong weapon. It also doesn't affect shield bashes, which is more important post-Ravenloft than it's been traditionally.

    14/6 Bard/Fighter
    12/6/2 Bard/Fighter/Rogue
    17/3 Bard/Fighter
    + I am sure there have been other created since then.
    The Fighter variants are less effective these days for a few reasons:

    - Epic Defensive Fighting and MRR caps have limited the value of Stalwart Defense.
    - Focused Wrath/Improved Knight's Transformation deliver more dps than Strike with no Thought builds.
    - Increased Doublestrike has reduced the value of Cleaves, which were the primary use for the additional feats.

  11. #11
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrose View Post
    ...what build should I try? Looking for something to be fun and useful all the way through epics. I have 36 pt builds and 4 Past Lives. 1 Druid, 1 Warlock, 1 Artificer and 1 Paladin + an Epic. (healing/Hp stance).
    I just ran a bard past life and loved it. Went full Spellsinger - good damage and your party members will love you with hp and sp regen.

    20 BARD - 41+ Spellsinger, rest in Warchanter for extra song boosts

    Nuke them with Shout SLA, Horn of Thunder SLA, and Greater Shout. Stun them with if you have melee party members, or if you are waiting for your nukes to recharge with Soundburst SLA or Sonic Blast SLA

    Often led the kill count

  12. #12
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    2,320

    Default

    I have played a bard a long tie ago like 2006 long time ago. I just started to play one again after a TR. He is a pure level 30 wood elf swashbuckler. I am having such a good time playing this character it has now become the one (of 5) that I play the most. He does good damage, good songs, ok healing and a few other minor things. I like it a lot.
    Fizban - Avatar of Khyber
    Guild Leader of Legends: Where adventurers are born & Legends live.

  13. #13
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lemiro View Post
    I just ran a bard past life and loved it. Went full Spellsinger - good damage and your party members will love you with hp and sp regen.

    20 BARD - 41+ Spellsinger, rest in Warchanter for extra song boosts

    Nuke them with Shout SLA, Horn of Thunder SLA, and Greater Shout. Stun them with if you have melee party members, or if you are waiting for your nukes to recharge with Soundburst SLA or Sonic Blast SLA

    Often led the kill count
    Works well in heroics. Comparatively not as useful as melee based in epics, unless easier content.
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

  14. #14
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,245

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    CKT locks you into Short Sword, which isn't a particularly strong weapon. It also doesn't affect shield bashes, which is more important post-Ravenloft than it's been traditionally.
    Warchanter

    You leverage the DC's and the AoE cleaves you are going to naturally take. And you have a few more options. Blackrazor isn't horrible at 29+ and can use Charisma hit/damage.

    If you do choose to Swash, unless you are facing DR issues, you are going to get substantially less glancing blows meaning "better" DPS. Then again, your point is valid as using a hand Axe is the best option, negating the choice of PDK.

    The Fighter variants are less effective these days for a few reasons:

    - Epic Defensive Fighting and MRR caps have limited the value of Stalwart Defense.
    Stalwart Defense does not hinder your ability to cast spells. Defensive Fighting at this time just isn't "there." Once they patch more modifiers on to it, it may be.

    - Focused Wrath/Improved Knight's Transformation deliver more dps than Strike with no Thought builds.
    And this would be one of the builds that is relatively new. A 12/6/2 Bard/Wizard/Rogue or something similar would be interesting. Since my previous post, I have seen a current build use FvS (or Cleric) to leverage the Divine Pass. There are definitely a lot more options.

    - Increased Doublestrike has reduced the value of Cleaves, which were the primary use for the additional feats.
    As long as most current content is "throw 7 NPC's at the party on Elite+" then Cleaves > Doublestrike. I've actually been paying attention to this more closely. WPM update they seemed to slightly back away from this approach and drop 2 (to 3 Orange) with 2 (to 3) Normal NPC's with more "sprinkles of non-named Red's." The Khovaire Shipment seems to have returned back to 3 (to 7 if not careful) swarm. Its a matter of figuring out if you want to be "super effective vs. Bosses" or "Effective vs. Content."
    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

  15. #15
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Warchanter
    Stalwart Defense does not hinder your ability to cast spells. Defensive Fighting at this time just isn't "there." Once they patch more modifiers on to it, it may be.
    I agree with this. I used Epic Defensive Fighting for a while, while on my Swashbuckler build, and the benefit of being able to reliably cast beneficial spells such as heal, cure, rez, restore, etc on other party members is worth a lot more than the APs / build decisions that would be saved by not taking Stalwart Defense. With Epic Defensive Fighting turned on, I was sometimes able to run next to someone to cast on them, but this is unreliable as sometimes they will suddenly run away from you, and out of range. Yes, you can coordinate with other people, but not everyone is a native English speaker and may not understand what you are saying in voice chat, or if you type it in party chat they may or may not see it.

    As for the discussion at hand, I still really like Bard 15 / Fighter 3 / Rogue 2 as a build, with dex as the focus, and enhancements primarily in Swashbuckler and Vistani. Fighter 3 is for the extra two feats and Stalwart Defense, while Rogue is obviously for trapping and evasion. In my experience, it's really hit or miss on whether an experienced trapper joins your group, so there is value in getting the juicy XP bonus for getting the traps. This is better for leveling up, though if you're playing at cap I realize this isn't as critical.
    The best part of the 10th Anniversary of DDO...the description on the Oatmeal Raisin Kookie,
    "From a distance you thought this was a chocolate chip kookie. Now you're sad."

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown View Post
    Works well in heroics. Comparatively not as useful as melee based in epics, unless easier content.
    I'll bow to your knowledge on that, I only ran 1-20 for a heroic PL. Worked really well for that

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload