Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    4,327

    Default The Drow Maverick

    NOTE @ ALL - THIS BUILD IS NOT THE BEST CHOICE FOR EPIC LEVELS. Taking 2 Fighter levels front-loads power, great for 1-20, but sacrifices BE 20 capstone - which is a net loss @ 20 and beyond. A Heroic TR/RR @ 20 won't miss that except while farming their 20 Tokens, but if going to 30, go pure. A pure build is discussed lower down in thread.

    This is a response to a request for a Drow version of Strimton's Maverick Hunter (which is WF). Posting it here so 1) not to go OT there, as the fleshie version is diff enough, and 2) the request may have followups, which are sure to be OT from the original.

    In that thread, the question (among others) was asked...

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    ...Finally, while I'm fairly confident this build is probably optimal with a WF, I'd like to see a non-WF variant: anyone good with theorycraft, or perhaps Strimtrom himself, care to outline a good 30pt drow or 32pt half elf(really thought this with fighter dilly might be good) build variant of this, maintaining pure arti?
    2 Q's -

    1) Any Tomes from that first life? Maybe a +2 - in what? Int would be handy, as would Con or Str. Either way, you should get to 1750 favor again about mid-teens. If(?) you choose to take an Int tome then, that'll help fill in some of the early checkered skills, and any slop into... Haggle?

    2) Is this toon going on to Epics, Level 30, or stop at 20 (or so) and TR? Makes a diff.



    Here's a sketch - I'm sure it could use some polish, but the shape is there.

    There are 2 ways to go w/ a fleshie arti, either embrace the flesh and Curative Admixtures and Heal, or reject it and go Repair. I went w/ the latter, closer to the original.

    Didn't go pure Arti - I feel that, for this, the Fighter adds enough to be convincing. W/o Fighter, no Cleave, no damage boost until KtA (and those aren't "+8" until end-heroics), no AoE attacks until very late in the build (from enhancements).

    However, I've built this for reincarnation at 20, NOT going to Epic. If Epic, the build gets trickier, we (probably) want pure, the power comes (much) later, and I need some more info (tomes, etc.) This let's him take Fighter 2 and ignore the capstone, and enjoy early Cleave etc etc. That means MUCH stronger earlier, and so MUCH more fun in Heroics.

    (Note: For a pure-Arti version, to go to 30, see below. Move HElf Racial AP to RM, done.)

    Arti Maverick Drow
    18/2 Artificer/Fighter
    True Neutral Drow

    Level Order

    1. Artificer. . . .6. Artificer. . . 11. Fighter . . . .16. Artificer
    2. Fighter . . . . 7. Artificer . . .12. Artificer . . .17. Artificer
    3. Artificer. . . .8. Artificer. . . 13. Artificer. . . 18. Artificer
    4. Artificer. . . .9. Artificer. . . 14. Artificer. . . 19. Artificer
    5. Artificer. . . 10. Artificer. . . 15. Artificer. . . 20. Artificer




    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt . . 30pt. . .32pt . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . 13. . . .14 . . . 13. . . .4: INT
    Dexterity . . . 13. . . .14 . . . 14. . . .8: INT
    Constitution. . 14. . . .14 . . . 14. . . 12: INT
    Intelligence. . 18. . . .18 . . . 19. . . 16: INT
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . 20: INT
    Charisma. . . . 10. . . .10 . . . 10. . .




    Skills
    . . . . . A. F .A .A .A .A .A .A .A .A .F. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A
    . . . . . 1. 2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Repair. . 3. 1 . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 3. . . . . .2 .1 .3 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Spellcr . 4. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . .3 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Disable . 4. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Open Lo . 4. . . . . . . . . . 3. 1. 1. . . . 1. . .1 .1 .3 .3 .3 .2 .23
    Search. . 4. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Spot. . . 4. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    UMD . . . 4. . . . 1. 1. 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Jump. . . . .5. . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 .13
    Balance . 2. . . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . . . 1. . .1 .1 .½ .½ .½ .½ . . 11
    Tumble. . ½. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .32. 6 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .9 .9 .9 .7. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 10



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Power Attack
    .2 Fighter: Cleave
    .3. . . . : Precision
    .5 Arti . : Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword
    .6. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
    .9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    .9 Arti . : Quicken Spell
    11 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
    12. . . . : Construct Essence
    14 Arti . : Improved Construct Essence
    15. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    18. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
    18 Arti . : Weapon Focus: Slashing OR Extend Spell

    (Note: It would take 3 Feat swaps, but at Level 18 this build could take Great Cleave. See post below for details.)

    Spells

    1. Inflict Light Damage (1), Repair Light Damage (1), Enchant Weapons (1), Conjure Bolts (1), Enchant Armor (3), <Any>, <Any>
    2. Elemental Weapons (4), Admixture: Cure Moderate Wounds (5), <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
    3. Flame Turret (7), Admixture: Cure Serious Wounds (8), Admixture: Remove Disease (13), Positive Energy Infusion (17)
    4. Armor of Speed (10), <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
    5. Admixture: Cure Critical Wounds (14), <Any>, <Any>
    6. <Any>, <Any>


    Enhancements (79 of 80 AP)

    Battle Engineer (44 AP)
    • Battle Engineer, Infused Weapons, Infused Armor, Infused Weapons II, Infused Armor II
      1. Hand and a Half Training, Field Scrapper III, Thaumaturgical Conduits III, Item Defense I
      2. Hand and a Half Training, Wracking Strike I, Caustic Strike I, Extra Action Boost III
      3. Hand and a Half Training, Disable Construct I, Shatter Defenses I, Intelligence
      4. Hand and a Half Training, Haste Boost, Agility Engine III, Intelligence
      5. Reconstructed Edges, Weapon Attachment, Thunder-Shock: Melee, Unlock Potential, Tactical Mobility

    Renegade Mastermaker (16 AP)
    • Renegade Defender, Alchemical Shield
      1. Easily Fixed, Supporting Construction III, Toughness III
      2. Kinetic Discharge II, Mighty Slam I
      3. Battlefist, Shielding Construct, Intelligence

    Harper Agent (15 AP)
    • Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II
      1. Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
      2. Know the Angles III
      3. Strategic Combat, Intelligence

    Kensei (4 AP)
    • Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades
      1. Attack Boost III

    Leveling Guide
    1. (Bank 4 AP)
    2. Ken0 Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades; Ken1 Attack Boost I, II, III; Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Strategic Combat
    3. Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II, III
    4. Hrp0 Intelligence; Hrp3 Strategic Combat
    Notes:

    The spells listed are what he'll learn at the trainer, NOT what he'll be carrying adventuring (at least not at first). There are some other "rare" spells at higher levels, but this gets him out of the gate.

    For questing, he'll buy a scroll of Master's Touch, and learn and slot that. Sim w/ Repair - along w/ Enchant Weapons (which he took @ Lvl 1), that's his Lvl 1-2 questing mix. (Inflict Light Damage optional, but another free slot.) Then he'll grab the best two-handed weapon he can find - Graxe, Great Sword, Great Club, even Quarterstaff if you have to* - and use that for Level 1-2(+). That plus Cleave plus the Kensai +8 to hit/damage boost will get him thru The Harbor, np. Level 3 - maybe add Ablative Armor, the Arti version of "False Life".

    (* Kensai spirit weapon will only give +1 to hit, nothing else. Choose the weapon group based on the weapon he'll be using, for that slight boost. Don't worry about favoring the "bastard sword" group ("Heavy Blades"), as he's not spending the points for any exotic weapons.

    o https://ddowiki.com/page/Kensei_enha...Core_abilities)

    He doesn't learn Bastard Sword or Rune Arms until Level 3, and then you have a decision to make, based on how questing is going - to hold on to Master's Touch and 2HF, or go simple Bastard Sword + RA.

    For his crossbow, it's a backup weapon, so buy a Thin Quiver in NW Harbor and carry 500 bolts, done. And/or buy a short stack of Conjure Bolts scrolls, same result as knowing the spell (at low levels).

    You'll note that several attack enhancements are only rank 1-2. The honey isn't in rank 3 +[W] boost, it's in the additional effects, which are fully present w/ rank 1 tyvm, and that gives him more AP to spread around. This is one of the areas that I bet could use some polish. 1 AP to spare as it stands.

    (It was pointed out below that you cannot Maximize "Reconstruct" (the toaster version of Heal) - so that was dropped.)
    Last edited by C-Dog; 01-06-2019 at 12:40 PM. Reason: correct skill points & stats

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    1) Any Tomes from that first life? Maybe a +2 - in what? Int would be handy, as would Con or Str. Either way, you should get to 1750 favor again about mid-teens. If(?) you choose to take an Int tome then, that'll help fill in some of the checkered skills.
    +2int accessible - it's actually a first life, have access to champion builds from favor, which I had assumed means that 30pt drow/32pt helf was accessible - perhaps I misunderstood how that worked.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    2) Is this toon going on to Epics, Level 30, or stop at 20 (or so) and TR? Makes a diff.
    If pure arti doable(perhaps by going helf and taking fighter dilly?) then likely going to epics.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    He doesn't learn Bastard Sword or Rune Arms until Level 3, and then you have a decision to make, based on how questing is going - to hold on to Master's Touch and 2HF, or go simple Bastard Sword + RA.
    Unless helf with fighter dilly, in which case martial weapon proficiency from lvl1 means access to bastard swords from lvl1? Also means access to cleave without having to splash fighter levels?

    Taking from other thread response:
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    1. Conjure Bolts - mandatory. First, you are going to use it NOW. More, if you learn it from a scroll, it has a bug (never makes more than +1 bolts).
    2. Curative Admixture: Cure Light Wounds - rare
    3. Enchant Armor - rare
    4. Enchant Weapons - rare
    5. _your choice_ *
    Why is conjure bolts a necessity NOW? For xbow use lvl1-3? For completionist sake I would probably take it due to the above-mentioned bug, however it piqued my curiosity as to why a melee arti would want to prioritize that spell.

    Final summation, drow build looking nice, but there's a nagging part of me that still thinks it could be better done as a helf with fighter dilly: mostly because dilly is 'free' extra feats, which then leaves other feat slots open. But would then for sure require a +2int tome(accessible, as noted) at minimum?

    For reference, I payed around launch time got a drow pally into green steel reach, and quit ages before MoTU - currently returned with MoTU, SFC, a good cross selection of lower tier adventures(from that 9.99 pack on steam/ddo market), and a month of VIP(which i don't plan to keep, instead splashing a month sub here and there whenever I TR mostly likely). Atm running a thf dwarf barb(whose soloability and survivability are questionably exclusive imo) at lvl5, and an iconic bladeforged KotC which I'm mostly using to favor farm for account unlocks and pre-grind content(to see where traps are, etc) that I'll do on the barb(who is likely to find himself rerolled to an arti real quicklike here).

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,423

    Default

    Fighter is giving you 2 feats, but costing a capstone in BE, and an arti bonus feat, and 2 levels of runearm damage.

    If making a pure build I would drop the fighter and make a pure arti, human. You get the bonus arti feat and human feat to make up for the fighter feats, and can capstone BE to get the drow int back. Net gain of the BE capstone, or +1 multiplier, and 10% more runearm damage and arti caster levels, and you spell casting implement your weapon, for more spell power.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 01-01-2019 at 10:58 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    4,327

    Default

    First, I did a dumb thing above - I didn't enter the +Int Level ups into the Char Builder. So he had more Skill Points coming - edited those in, above, looks better. Some people

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    it's actually a first life, have access to champion builds from favor, which I had assumed means that 30pt drow/32pt helf was accessible - perhaps I misunderstood how that worked.
    Drow are not upgraded when you get 32 point builds - they stay at 28 unless/until they reincarnate (that's what makes their attraction stronger for newer players, less so for anyone who has 32 pt builds). Once you have 32 point builds, other races can be/are a better bet.

    Drow become 30 point 2nd life, and 32 every life thereafter.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    +2 int accessible...
    Not sure what that means - that you have a +2 Tome lying around? If so (and you think this will become your main), then yes, this would be the build to use that on, and at level 1. +1 Int bonus to skills and to damage (and to Insightful Reflexes), +1 skill (Haggle?), yes please.

    But would then for sure require a +2int tome(accessible, as noted) at minimum?
    This build meets all "requirements" for Int. +1 Int bonus and more skill points is always a good thing, but the lack isn't a dealbreaker here.

    If pure arti doable(perhaps by going helf and taking fighter dilly?) then likely going to epics.
    ...
    Unless helf with fighter dilly, in which case martial weapon proficiency from lvl1 means access to bastard swords from lvl1?
    ...
    ...but there's a nagging part of me that still thinks it could be better done as a helf with fighter dilly: mostly because dilly is 'free' extra feats, which then leaves other feat slots open.
    Only 1 "free" feat, and that's the Dilletante Feat itself - and all :Fighter gives is martial weapons. How does that help this build? Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I'm just not seeing any up side at all.

    If the above, the Fighter classes already give you that, but even if pure, all it does (since you're not using Martial Weapons) is give access to that Enhancement Tree; 1 AP for +1 to damage is weak compared to some of the higher Tier enhancements you could/should take.


    And - someone already mentioned this - but Bastard Sword is NOT a "Martial Weapon" - it's an Exotic Weapon. Fighters don't get it for free.

    And whether Bastard Sword at 1, 2 or 3 - about the same and def the same for every level after that. Look at the long-term picture.

    But Tilo is 100% right (o7) and I touched on that in my post - if going Epic, losing capstone is a mistake. You take the slow route, you tough it out, you're stronger when you hit 20.

    Also means access to cleave without having to splash fighter levels?
    No. Cleave is not tied to Fighter. Cleave is tied to Power Attack, which is a problem b/c together that's two more Feats. (A pure Wizard can take PA & Cleave if they meet the Str 13 & BAB 1 pre-reqs, and many have.)

    The thing Fighter brings to the table (besides those delicious +8/+8 boosts with Lvl 2) is +2 Feat slots on demand - here, Cleave early at Level 2, and then Improved Crit @ 11 (instead of 12). So Fighter 2 splash just adds the Feat slots, not the access to Cleave itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    Why is conjure bolts a necessity NOW? For xbow use lvl1-3? For completionist sake I would probably take it due to the above-mentioned bug, however it piqued my curiosity as to why a melee arti would want to prioritize that spell.
    B/c you're not a melee arti at level 1 - or, at least, with 13-14 Str, not a particularly capable one. In Korthos, a Level 1 arti w/ a generic repeater is MUCH stronger than a Level 1 with a 1-handed melee weapon. But you're right - it's not a dealbreaker. If you want to scroll them, or run to the ammo vendor every other quest, that works too. Or just MT a 2-hander, that's another strong option.

    Final summation, drow build looking nice...
    Nicer for Heroics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Fighter is giving you 2 feats, but costing a capstone in BE, and an arti bonus feat, and 2 levels of runearm damage.
    It's not just +2 Feats, it's +2 when you want them. Here, nice jumpstart w/ Cleave at Level 2 and then IC +1 level early.

    (It also adds cheap Jump 11. I like Jump, to get out of bad situations, and Arti lacks that spell. Admittedly minor, ymmv.)


    But agreed - it has a cost, and if going Epic, the above Drow is NOT the best build for the job.

    Here is a link for a Human (in that same thread) that would go well into Epics -

    o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6128356

    Note that this build does not have Bastard Sword (uses War Hammers) - if you want BS, you dump Great Cleave (or possibly Maximize). Also 36 point build - dump the Con 18 to 14-15, boost Str to 13-14 to meet feat requisites, rest into Dex.

    Something like this:

    Human Artificer

    Stats
    . . . . . . . .32pt
    . . . . . . . .----
    Strength. . . . 14
    Dexterity . . . 12
    Constitution. . 14
    Intelligence. . 18
    Wisdom. . . . . .8
    Charisma. . . . .8. . .
    Last edited by C-Dog; 01-02-2019 at 05:49 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,423

    Default

    I think you will find that you want to take the construct essence feats both at the same time, so you don't have a long period of time where all your healing is nerfed. Like this:

    Human Pure 20 Arti

    1 Power Attack, Cleave
    3 Single Weapon Fighting
    4 Arti BSword Proficiency
    6 Great Cleave
    8 Quicken (Don't need quicken yet since you can't quicken admixtures for healing but good spot to take it anyways)
    9 Single Weapon Fighting #2
    12 Arti feat: Construct Essence, Normal Feat: Improved Construct Essence (swap from 100% positive healing to 100% repair healing without ever having weakened healing of both types) (make sure normal feat is Improved Construct Essence here)
    15 Single Weapon Fighting #3
    16 Arti IC:Slashing
    18 Insightful Reflexes
    20 Improved Construct Essence (free feat swap level 12 Improved Construct Essence to Precision before taking 20) (dropped maximize since primary healing spell reconstruct cannot be maximized)

    Until you get super specialized sentient weapon in LD, primary AoE and damage on a BE arti isn't cleaves/melee in dungeon clearing, it is runearm damage. (Strinati's AoE does 39 +21/lvl@ 200 spell power, and the Arc Wielder AoE (long range) quad-hit does 76 + 88/lvl @ 300 spell power.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 01-02-2019 at 05:09 PM.

  6. #6
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    4,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I think you will find that you want to take the construct essence feats both at the same time
    ...dropped maximize since primary healing spell reconstruct cannot be maximized...
    3 good points, re 1) taking Construct Essence together, 2) dropping Maximize, and 3) respecing the Construct Essence pair to both Arti slots. Editing the above Drow Heroic Arti based on same, thx!

    It would take 3 feat swaps*, but before taking Level 18 Feats the OP build could go back and grab Great Cleave...

    .1. . . . : Power Attack
    .2 Fighter: Cleave
    .3. . . . : Precision
    .5 Arti . : Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword
    .6. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
    .9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    .9 Arti . : Quicken Spell
    11 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
    12. . . . : Great Cleave
    14 Arti . : Construct Essence
    15. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    18. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
    18 Arti . : Improved Construct Essence

    * 1) Swap Lvl 14 Arti feat slot Improved Construct Essence for a placeholder - Skill Focus: Listen, whatever.
    * 2) Swap Lvl 12 feat slot Construct Essence for Great Cleave
    * 3) Swap Lvl 14 placeholder for Construct Essence

    You are now free to take ICE w/ the Lvl 18 Arti slot (rather than Extend/Weapon Focus).

    (@ New Players: See Fred for full details on how to do this. Normally there's a 3-day cooldown, so normally 6(!) days to do this start to finish, but if you save the Feat Respec token for last (the Lvl 14 swaps are more expensive anyway) you can cut that to 3 days.

    Didn't say "Do it!", said it was possible. )


    Until you get super specialized sentient weapon in LD, primary AoE and damage on a BE arti isn't cleaves/melee in dungeon clearing, it is runearm damage.
    Interesting. Never focused on melee, always repeater - which tends to clear mobs at a longer range, so RA is last resort. Unfortunate that there are no feats to boost RA, and so all the feats here are melee-oriented.

    I may have to try this build now, get out of the theory craft!
    Last edited by C-Dog; 01-03-2019 at 06:39 AM.

  7. #7
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    4,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    For reference, I payed around launch time got a drow pally into green steel reach, and quit ages before MoTU ...
    If that alt is still around, you may want to just zerg him up to 20 and do a TR! 34 points (30 w/ Drow), plus a nice Pali past-life Healing Amp (or 1st Drow PL, if going Racial Reincarnation toward that +1 Int & AP).

    It's a LOT easier to make Level 20 these days (even on a gimp build?), and if he's that old he'll have a free HoW (maybe even a +20?) lying around. (Save that last if at all possible!)

  8. #8
    Community Member Jetrule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    988

    Default

    I think switching to a construct essence repair based arti is a downgrade from fleshie aoe healing using potion infusions. RMM has 2 sla infusions that can be maximized ect for free and heal amp is easier to come by on a fleshie. Forged get some good cheap repair amp in racial tree and many good docents have repair amp for more versatile gearing purposes. NPC hirelings wont be able to heal you as well either which is tough if running low reapers and neither will party mates. Relying on aoe healing infusions and gearing healing lore, amp and spell power takes a little practice for targeting, but is great for most groups making repair based healing only competitive for forged characters imo.

    The defensive benefits of level drain and stat damage from poison immunity are nice though. So it is not as simple a question of which healing type is superior. On the whole though I favor repair for forged and say no to the 2 feats and healing downgrade of construct essence feats.

    The benefit of having haste action boost (not attack) and cleaves early is huge for faster safer leveling and a fair choice for a heroic life. I also favor taking a much derided augment summons feat for heroics for your robo dog and as important in early mids through mid teens, the flame turret. Flame turret is a construct summon that is made tougher by augment summons and is the go to pre fight spell from level 6-14 or so for artis. I would likely switch the two construct essence feats for augment summons and empower healing and call it a win
    Last edited by Jetrule; 01-03-2019 at 07:08 AM.
    Percivaul Dusol, BadRandall and Shortpact--The Silver Legion

  9. #9
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    If that alt is still around, you may want to just zerg him up to 20 and do a TR! 34 points (30 w/ Drow), plus a nice Pali past-life Healing Amp (or 1st Drow PL, if going Racial Reincarnation toward that +1 Int & AP).

    It's a LOT easier to make Level 20 these days (even on a gimp build?), and if he's that old he'll have a free HoW (maybe even a +20?) lying around. (Save that last if at all possible!)
    OT: That alt is apparently not around, not sure why, highest I found lurking around was a lvl7 fighter on a different server than the one I've been playing on. might have rerolled when motu came out and I: bought the CE, played for a week, then got tied up with RL stuff.

    Back on topic: I'm liking this build, although I may steer clear of drow since the points are what they are. I'm close to unlocking 32pt builds with favor using my iconic BF farmer. Who is fun and all, but I'm not looking forward to leveling to 30 for first TR - planning on getting wings first(so I can elite streak for bonus exp without subbing and access to highest point builds).

    Two items here:
    1) I really dislike humans - it's always been a thing for me - why play a human in a fantasy world I escape my humdrum human life into? So, if I don't drow(for higher points) and I don't human - what would next best option be? Dragonborn?

    2) If I'm reading the wiki info correctly, LR upgrades you to a higher point build, if you have it? So if I started as a 28pt, and unlocked champion through favor later, I could use a LHoW to 'respec' up to 32 points? Which would essentially just let me repick all my stats, feats, etc? I get a free LHoW on every character I create, I've even got lvl4 and lvl7 choices on the airship(although I prefer to start in Korthos while I learn a class, I find it the most forgiving place, but then I could just 'false' limit my levels by taking a lvl10 start, and going t okorthos before choosing to advance couldn't I?) although I'm not entirely certain where that came from anymore....

    3) That was a bit more than 2 items, probably should've called it two trains of thought...

  10. #10
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    4,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    ...If I'm reading the wiki info correctly, LR upgrades you to a higher point build, if you have it? So if I started as a 28pt, and unlocked champion through favor later, I could use a LHoW to 'respec' up to 32 points? Which would essentially just let me repick all my stats, feats, etc?
    Correct! If you only had 28 points when the character is created, and later get access to 32 points, you can apply that w/ an LR.

    And, yes, at the same time you can respec everything else (except order of classes, and alignment).

    (It also changes appearance, so take a screenshot if you want to duplicate the look.)

    I get a free LHoW on every character I create, I've even got lvl4 and lvl7 choices on the airship(although I prefer to start in Korthos while I learn a class, I find it the most forgiving place, but then I could just 'false' limit my levels by taking a lvl10 start, and going to korthos before choosing to advance couldn't I?) although I'm not entirely certain where that came from anymore....
    Not exactly sure what you mean - BUT - if you're talking Iconics, problem is that before you LR you MUST take any/all "banked" levels. Iconics start w/ enough XP for Level 15, so an LR will force you to 15 (at least - more if you've earned more some XP).

    Note that if you're chasing Reaper XP, then starting from 1 and going through the Harbor/Market/etc. is a big extra grab of RXP for 1st life. You don't need the boost of regular XP (you'll be leveling fast on a 1st life if you stick to Reaper), but you'll start loving the Reaper enhancement boosts for for every life after.

    Also, while that works fine, it's "best" if you can save that LHoW for emergencies, when you suddenly realize you've screwed up. You only get 1/character, not 1/reincarnation.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    1) ... if I don't Drow (for higher points) and I don't human - what would next best option be? Dragonborn?
    Yep, 32 points solves a lot of problems that non-Drow builds have. Dragonborn are +Str and +Cha, w/ Electric boosts in racial, so offer little for this build.

    Well, at its core, this is an Int build, so from the perspective of optimizing, you'd want to look at any Race w/ +Int...


    ... and Gnome jumps out as the only (non-Iconic) option there. The downside of Gnome is the carrying capacity - 3/4 normal hurts, but this build doesn't dump Str so it's not a dealbreaker. The upsides are several - to start, short character = better Improved Precise Shot. But better (if you stick closer to the AP spread of the original) the Racial AP that are freed from WF can go straight into Color Spray, which is both Int-based and awesome!

    You could grab CS w/ only 8 AP (1 Core + 4 in Tier 1), but if you allocate 9 you can (eventually) spend 6 in just the cores, and get +2 Int, +2 Dodge plus +2 UMD. (You'd want to spend some temporary AP in Tier 1 and then respec as he levels up, so he doesn't have to wait for Level 11, but that's cheap to do.)



    If (for reasons of your own) you don't like Gnome, then second place would be Dwarf, for the +Con - more durability, and another short race, but offers nothing special beyond that. After that... nothing really fits. Maybe Aasimar, for the +1 Str and racial healing - afaiu, their LoH works for both flesh and robot, so no worries there.

    (In the end, any race could work - even Horc w/ -2 Int can get through fine. Atm we're talking "stronger" choices, aiming for something better than "just fine".)

    Anything else either takes a hit to Str or Con or Int or Dex - and you want "some" of all of those. Doable, but just not helping. (And, besides, they stink, like tall person!)

    (The best iconics might be (in order)... BF (obviously), PDK (which is "human")(ish) or Deep Gnome (+Int but -Str)) or Sun Elf (+Int but -Con), and then SK and Aasimar Scourge.)
    Last edited by C-Dog; 01-04-2019 at 12:16 AM.

  11. #11
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    (The best iconics might be (in order)... BF (obviously), PDK (which is "human")(ish) or Deep Gnome (+Int but -Str)) or Sun Elf (+Int but -Con), and then SK and Aasimar Scourge.)
    I was under the impression that if you take an iconic you're pretty much stuck with minimum 1 level in their base class?

    Also, not to beat a dead horse - but - half-elf with rogue dilly gets a +1 int(choice dex or int) and sneak attack, sly flourish and alchemical tangle(those two sound nice for the ermagerd panic moments in group and solo respectively - so non-optimal I get(also, from what I can tell everybody hates half elves for some reason or other) but to me, seems like it would work better than other race choices after gnome. Also considered wiz(+1 int) and imp spellcasting 2, or warlock(1d4 extra fire dmg!) and imp spellcasting 2 - not sure but the item use from the latter two seem as if they would make it so my UMD requirements, in terms of how many points I need to spend, might be lower?

  12. #12
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    4,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    I was under the impression that if you take an iconic you're pretty much stuck with minimum 1 level in their base class?
    You're absolutely correct - and 99% of the Iconic builds either work around that or work it into the build.

    So you're losing capstone (without a +1 Heart), but that's the price you pay for many Iconic builds.

    Also, not to beat a dead horse - but - half-elf with rogue dilly gets a +1 int(choice dex or int) and sneak attack, sly flourish and alchemical tangle...
    Not a dead horse - Rogue dilettante is, at least, useful, compared to Fighter. And you're right - I did overlook HElf, and it would be better than the "nothing to offer" races. By +1 Int.

    But you don't get all that "for free" - it costs AP that are almost certainly better spent in high-tier Arti enhancements. Sly flourish is nice at Lvl 5, and the +1 Int helps, but you don't get the entangle until 15 - is that really an upgrade you want to spend 9 AP on? (Hint - what are you losing so you can take that.)

    o https://ddowiki.com/page/Dilettante#Rogue

    ...(1d4 extra fire dmg!)
    Okay, understand this - cuz it's important. At VERY low levels, a flat "+#" to damage is great. +2, +d4, whatever. But at mid-high levels, it becomes almost unnoticeable, as you're hoping for damage in the high-double to low-triple digits. And you get that via crits - which is why the Sly Flourish is nice (+ crit range).

    So shake off the "Ooh, +1 damage - shiny!" mindset, esp if it's not LARGE. If it's there, sure, grab it on the way to something better, or that adds to that - but don't chase it at the expense of other stuff.

    Now, more to the point, Warlock dilly requires 13 Charisma - so the question becomes, do you have 5 Build Points to spare? Where are they coming from? Are you going to dump Str and carrying capacity? Dex and Ref ST + armor class? Con and hit points + Fort ST? Really?

    [/quote] not sure but the item use from the latter two seem as if they would make it so my UMD requirements, in terms of how many points I need to spend, might be lower?[/QUOTE]
    Not an issue - with an Int build, you're going to be searching for places to spend points, not scraping for them.

    And, again - weigh that against what you're losing. Gnome Color Spray is money - stun/blind/silence? That's how I want to start a fight. And on the way you can grab +1 damage to Light Repeaters, and go that route - cuz why not?


    Look - if you just like the idea of a HElf, then we can do that. If you hate Gnome, we can go a different way - HElf or something else - Dwarf? But don't argue that HElf is "better" or "desirable" or "a nice fit", cuz it's just not. We can make it work, squeeze the best out of it so it's not a complete fail, but that's what's called a "flavor build" - high on concept, low on practicality. And that's not a recipe for easy or reliable quest completion. But it might be "more fun", and that's not up to me - if that's more fun for you, then that's the "best" build, period. I'm not trying to tell you what to play, only what's good and what's noticeably less good, when the metal hits the meat. It's just that, for me, struggling through a tough quest is almost always "less fun", even if your character looks better doing it. Your call.
    Last edited by C-Dog; 01-04-2019 at 05:08 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    You're absolutely correct - and 99% of the Iconic builds either work around that or work it into the build.

    So you're losing capstone (without a +1 Heart), but that's the price you pay for many Iconic builds.

    Look - if you just like the idea of a HElf, then we can do that. If you hate Gnome, we can go a different way - HElf or something else - Dwarf? But don't argue that HElf is "better" or "desirable" or "a nice fit", cuz it's just not. We can make it work, squeeze the best out of it so it's not a complete fail, but that's what's called a "flavor build" - high on concept, low on practicality. And that's not a recipe for easy or reliable quest completion. But it might be "more fun", and that's not up to me - if that's more fun for you, then that's the "best" build, period. I'm not trying to tell you what to play, only what's good and what's noticeably less good, when the metal hits the meat. It's just that, for me, struggling through a tough quest is almost always "less fun", even if your character looks better doing it. Your call.
    I'm sorry, what does the +1 heart do to make capstone availability change on an iconic? Does it somehow allow you to fully re-choose all class levels on an iconic, including the first one. essentially creating a freebie lvl15(but with the iconic restrictions in regards to TR)?

    I do like the idea of a helf, not too big a fan of short races in general, and while color spray sounds wonderful - I tend to prefer passive bonuses over adding even more things for me to activate - sneak attack built in, taking enough in rogue dilly for the +1 int and sly flourish would probably be the way I'd like to go with that.

  14. #14
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    4,327

    Default

    It's important to know what you want, and to not settle for less. "Not too big a fan of short races" is what it is, and no matter how "good" the build is on paper, if you're inwardly cringing every time you see your alt - yeah, that's not a good build!

    Let me stare harshly at HElf, see if I can't pull something together, see if we can't make that better than a 28 point Drow.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    I'm sorry, what does the +1 heart do to make capstone availability change on an iconic? Does it somehow allow you to fully re-choose all class levels on an iconic, including the first one. essentially creating a freebie lvl15(but with the iconic restrictions in regards to TR)?...
    No, +1 HoW let's you change the class of 1 level, as well as rebuild all the stats/feats/etc. which comes w/ any Lesser HoW.

    Let's say we went Purple Dragon Knight. That starts w/ 1 level of Fighter. If going w/ the Arti 18/Fighter 2 split from the OP, that's not terrible, b/c we could (probably) re-arrange the Feats and it would all work out, and we only lose the huge Skill Point splash of Artix4 at the start. Bearable.

    If we went w/ something like Morninglord, we just ignore the starting Level of Cleric, and make the best of it, ending up w/ an Arti 18/Fighter 1/Cleric 1. We never break the 3-class limit - all is good. Not as good as the PDK, but still.

    BUT - if we wanted to go pure Arti... can't do it with either one -unless we use a +1 Heart. Build up to Level 15 (have to take all "banked" levels before any lesser reincarnation), then use the HoW and rebuild, changing 1 leve - and we choose... hrmmmm... Level 1, and we change that Level 1 Fighter class to Arti - done. We now have a pure Arti PDK.

  15. #15
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    4,327

    Default HElf version

    Okay, the working parameters are...

    • based on Maverick Hunter build (ala Strimtom)
    • no robots (which is a huge change, no doubt)
    • no "short" races (so no Gnomes, Dwarves or Halfings)
    • not Human
    • as few active buttons as possible - passive is better
    • plan to go to 30, so pure build (so no Iconics)


    For those keeping score, that leaves...

    • Aasimar (Q - Does their self-healing work once Construct Essence is applied?)
    • Dragonborn (-2 Dex is not attractive, but the electric boosts ~might~ be w/ the right Rune Arm - Arcwelder?)
    • Drow (28 point build - tempting)
    • HOrc (w/ -2 Int)
    ...and...
    • HElf


    If Drow, the starting stats are the same*, but there's no love in the racial tree (aside from +Int). That would mean all AP go into Arti trees - and there's a good argument for that.

    But (by request) the below takes a swing with HElf, trying to squeeze something out of Dilletante:Rogue. And with some success - a +1 Int boost, a damage boost, and Sly Flourish to reduce threat a bit.

    (* Except Cha 10, which equals +1 to UMD. There's nothing innately wrong w/ odd numbers - unless you have every last piece of gear planned out, any value has a 50/50 chance of ending up even.)



    @ Adrik - don't jump on this quite yet - I'd be surprised if others could not find some improvements to suggest (and any/all are welcome!).

    For AP leveling, I beelined for the RM Slam attacks for quick crowd control at Level 5-6, then the HElf Damage Boost/etc. by Level 7. Some of the Tier V BE effects are at least as good, so you might(?) want to dump all AP in those at Level 14 or so (when you'd have 40 to spare) and grab Tier V BE - but I can't say how much improvement that would be.

    Also, I listed all the +Int at the end- insert as needed to meet any odd values caused by gear.

    Last AP is all yours - customize as you please.

    (@ all - Note that a Drow would work w/ this just the same. Move the AP spent on HElf Racial tree to Renegade Mastermaker, done.)




    Arti Maverick HElf 30
    Artificer 20
    True Neutral Half-Elf


    Stats
    . . . . . . . .32pt . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . 13. . . .4: INT
    Dexterity . . . 13. . . .8: INT
    Constitution. . 14. . . 12: INT
    Intelligence. . 18. . . 16: INT
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . 20: INT
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . 24: INT
    . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: INT


    Skills
    . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Repair. . . .1 .1 .2 .1 .2 .1 .3 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Disable . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Open Lo . 3. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .2 .4 .3 .3 .23
    Search. . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    UMD . . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Balance . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .½ .½ .11
    Jump. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 .½ .1 .½ .1 .½ .. . . . . . . 6
    Haggle. . 4. 1. . . . . . . . . . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
    Tumble. . ½. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .32. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 10



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Power Attack
    .3. . . . : Cleave
    .4 Arti . : Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword
    .6. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
    .8 Arti . : Quicken Spell
    .9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    12. . . . : Improved Construct Essence
    12 Arti . : Construct Essence
    12 Swap. .: Great Cleave replaces Improved Construct Essence
    15. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    16 Arti . : Improved Critical: Slashing
    18. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
    20 Arti . : Improved Construct Essence
    21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic . : Burst of Glacial Wrath
    26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . :
    28 Destiny:
    29 Destiny:
    30 Epic . :
    30 Legend :

    .1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue


    Spells

    1. Repair Light Damage (1), Inflict Light Damage (1), Enchant Weapons (1), Conjure Bolts (1), Enchant Armor (2), Admixture: Cure Light Wounds (11), <Any>
    2. Elemental Weapons (3), Admixture: Cure Moderate Wounds (4), <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
    3. Flame Turret (6), Admixture: Cure Serious Wounds (7), Admixture: Remove Disease (11), Positive Energy Infusion (15), <Any>
    4. Armor of Speed (9), <Any>, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
    5. Admixture: Cure Critical Wounds (12), <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
    6. <Any>, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>


    Enhancements (79 of 80 AP)

    Battle Engineer (44 AP)
    • Battle Engineer, Infused Weapons, Infused Armor, Infused Weapons II, Infused Armor II, Master Engineer
      1. Hand and a Half Training, Field Scrapper III, Thaumaturgical Conduits III
      2. Hand and a Half Training, Wracking Strike I, Caustic Strike I, Extra Action Boost III
      3. Hand and a Half Training, Disable Construct I, Shatter Defenses I, Intelligence
      4. Hand and a Half Training, Haste Boost, Agility Engine III, Intelligence
      5. Reconstructed Edges, Weapon Attachment, Thunder-Shock: Melee, Unlock Potential, Tactical Mobility

    Renegade Mastermaker (14 AP)
    • Renegade Defender, Alchemical Shield
      1. Easily Fixed, Supporting Construction III, Toughness II
      2. Kinetic Discharge I, Mighty Slam I
      3. Battlefist, Shielding Construct, Intelligence

    Harper Agent (13 AP)
    • Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II
      1. Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
      2. Know the Angles III
      3. Strategic Combat

    Half-Elf (8 AP)
    • Versatile Nature, Human Intelligence, Human Damage Boost
      1. Improved Dilettante: Rogue
      2. Sly Flourish, Improved Dilettante: Rogue

    Leveling Guide
    1. Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Strategic Combat
    2. Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II, III
    3. Hrp0 Intelligence; Hrp3 Strategic Combat
    4. RM0 Renegade Defender; RM1 Easily Fixed; RM1 Toughness I, II
    5. RM1 Supporting Construction I; RM2 Mighty Slam I; RM0 Alchemical Shield; RM2 Kinetic Discharge I
    6. RM1 Supporting Construction II, III; RM3 Battlefist
    7. Hlf0 Human Intelligence; Hlf0 Versatile Nature; Hlf1 Improved Dilettante: Rogue; Hlf0 Human Damage Boost
    8. Hlf2 Improved Dilettante: Rogue; Hlf2 Sly Flourish; Hrp0 Agent of Good II
    9. BE0 Battle Engineer; BE1 Field Scrapper I, II, III
    10. BE1 Hand and a Half Training; BE1 Thaumaturgical Conduits I, II
    11. BE1 Thaumaturgical Conduits III; BE2 Caustic Strike I; BE2 Wracking Strike I; BE0 Infused Weapons
    12. RM3 Shielding Construct; BE2 Extra Action Boost I
    13. BE2 Extra Action Boost II, III; BE0 Infused Armor
    14. BE3 Shatter Defenses I; BE2 Hand and a Half Training; BE3 Disable Construct I
    15. BE0 Infused Weapons II; BE4 Agility Engine I, II, III
    16. BE3 Hand and a Half Training; BE4 Hand and a Half Training
    17. BE5 Reconstructed Edges; BE5 Thunder-Shock: Melee; BE5 Unlock Potential; BE5 Weapon Attachment
    18. BE5 Tactical Mobility; BE4 Haste Boost; BE0 Infused Armor II
    19. BE3 Intelligence
    20. BE0 Master Engineer; BE4 Intelligence; RM3 Intelligence


    For the last of the Epic Feats, see comments in the original build, here.

    Note - It's critical that, at Level 12, you take Construct Essence as the Arti feat, and Improved Construct Essence as the normal Lvl 12 feat (as shown above). At Level 20 you swap ICE to Great Cleave, and take ICE as the Arti 20 feat there - and you can't get GC as an Arti feat at Lvl 12.

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,423

    Default

    Maybe add reconstruct as a level 6 spell, with tactical detonation and deadly weapons. Construct Exemplar to 27 feat. Drop 5 AP off of harper, and 8 AP off of helf, and get reconstruct SLA from RM and some repair amp, then just cast insightful damage as an arti spell.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload