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  1. #1
    Community Member Proton's Avatar
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    Default New Content Options vs New Material

    DDO has gotten rather large with material. There are many quests to level up with, and there is a lot to explore. Most of its updates have centered around adding new material, while new content such as new level cap or reaper (for better or worse) isn't so common place and some content that sounded very interesting from the past has even been removed.

    This thread is simple. At what point does having new content become a better option then new material, if at all? Let us suppose they just keep adding quests, prestige classes, some new items, wildernesses, cosmetics (which I like) for the next 20 years? What do we end up with in the long run? Maybe 20 new raids to select from for epic or heroic, about 200 new quests, maybe 50 new cosmetics, around 1000 new items, and possibly 15 new prestiges with possibly 2 new classes. This seems a fair approximation.

    Let us suppose they focus on content, which reduces the amount of material they can develop unless they hire a second team and coordinate a little. Within 20 years we might see something like: Housing that resolves inventory problems, map stitching to create open map of world, new weapon fighting systems, new spells, PvP (which many like) that justifies reward, mounts like other games got (that can train skills even- like black desert has), boating so we can really explore the ocean, underwater combat which would make that exploration of ocean far more interesting... we are up to 8 to 10 years... airial combat (coupled with mounts now we are riding dragons... DDO is getting to be what I expect it to be with this sort of stuff!!!!), improved mortality which leads to more sophisticated combat, climbing, stealth resolved, familiars, psionic system and class, along with 5 to 7 new raids and around 50 new quests but with many old quests having new options from some of the new possibilities that come with new content.

    20 years from now this game would look great with all that new content. Would it need a new engine? For a lot of this stuff I highly doubt it. Will this happen? I doubt it because the players will likely keep demanding new material and any time someone suggests new content there is a horde of caution and fearful wooing until the suggestions get pasted up again and again. It is their game to make, but my game to rate and there are already a lot of games that have all these things put together into one package, while DDO players seem to enjoy making up reasons why they don't want/need/or can't do some of these UP TO DATE things.


    Do the devs have a 20 year survival plan or a 20 year development plan? If the latter, I wonder how much new content will such a long range plan include and how much material? And as I wonder about at what point new content actually becomes more interesting and refreshing then new material (eventually gets repetitive for some people) and by this would produce more value to the game, its ability to attract players and attract purchases?
    (DDO PVP PVE 24/7 options options come check us out better then ever!!!) = (+) Sales
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    Live large, you are awesome, you are here, you are happening! Sincerely, Proton

  2. #2
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Default One persons wish is another ones - WHAT!

    What I would like to see the focus on is:

    • World building like Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft to have a full scale of quests from 1 - 30 just like Eberron.
    • Quests that put 35 to 50 % of the XP focus on optionals. This will push greater dungeon exploring.
    • Add Dragonlance as a world also but only after FR and Ravenloft have been developed.


    This doesn't mean I don't like some of your ideas but I am definitely against any mounts. I like and prefer the instances DDO utilizes a lot. I have played many open world MMOs and it is a pain.
    Fizban - Avatar of Khyber
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    What I would like to see the focus on is:

    • World building like Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft to have a full scale of quests from 1 - 30 just like Eberron.
    • Quests that put 35 to 50 % of the XP focus on optionals. This will push greater dungeon exploring.
    • Add Dragonlance as a world also but only after FR and Ravenloft have been developed.


    This doesn't mean I don't like some of your ideas but I am definitely against any mounts. I like and prefer the instances DDO utilizes a lot. I have played many open world MMOs and it is a pain.
    100% instance over continuous world. I played many years in continuous and omg, why would you ever ask for a change to it.
    Take what we have now and change to: only the top3 raiding guilds will ever even see a raid boss. And named mobs with good item drops? Better get camping and hope someone doesn't kill steal you.
    Last edited by Cantor; 12-27-2018 at 10:28 AM.

  4. #4
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    First priority: Spelljammer

    Second priority: gong in DA

    Third priority: everything else



    I think you're presenting a false choice between new quests and new systems though. I think they should always both be in development. I kinda get what you're saying about having "enough" quests to go 1-30 and you don't really need more than that...but they can fill in that space with different styles of quests so you can get different experiences or focus more on the quests you like best.

    Also we already have mounts. It's called guild movement buff in town.

    Plus I don't really see the point of having zones any larger than storm horns or kings forest. If it was any bigger I'd just fast travel past it anyway, so it might as well be instanced. It sounds like you might enjoy lotro more, but there's no reason to make ddo into lotro.

  5. #5
    Community Member Proton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    First priority: Spelljammer

    Second priority: gong in DA

    Third priority: everything else



    I think you're presenting a false choice between new quests and new systems though. I think they should always both be in development. I kinda get what you're saying about having "enough" quests to go 1-30 and you don't really need more than that...but they can fill in that space with different styles of quests so you can get different experiences or focus more on the quests you like best.

    Also we already have mounts. It's called guild movement buff in town.

    Plus I don't really see the point of having zones any larger than storm horns or kings forest. If it was any bigger I'd just fast travel past it anyway, so it might as well be instanced. It sounds like you might enjoy lotro more, but there's no reason to make ddo into lotro.
    This choice between one or the other has been brought up to me numerous times when discussing time and how to use it. If its too much time then use two teams and get both. I'm not so into games much now, it will take some exceptional creative courage to impress me to the point that might change. Seeing more of the same will never qualify, no matter how well done it is.
    (DDO PVP PVE 24/7 options options come check us out better then ever!!!) = (+) Sales
    (DDO PVE only, 10k isn't required, no need to TR 150 times, don't worry) = (-) Scary
    Live large, you are awesome, you are here, you are happening! Sincerely, Proton

  6. #6
    Community Member simo0208's Avatar
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    I thought you’d have made eleventy billion dollars by now and were almost done creating your own MMO. I’m so disappointed in you.

  7. #7
    Community Member Gywiden's Avatar
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    If WotC would allow it, I'd like to see more in Ravenloft. It isn't all about Strahd, though I realize the reason we got that expansion is because of marketing. Still, we got more in the Forgotten Realms after we got MotU which was also a marketing thing at the time.

    The things I'd like to see most is more Ravenloft and more Khorvaire after we get Sharn.

  8. #8
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Mounts? Ebberon is a world with flying ships, railroads, teleporter gates, planescallers and farshifters, and you want a horse???

  9. #9
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    I think DDO devs are stuck in the "we need to push out new content to get money" trap.

    Its true that if you do a new expansion or whatever, vets will buy it because they have nothing else to buy. Oh and if you make the new gear OP (like with Ravenloft) and then balance new content around the OP, expansion only gear, then people are forced to buy it to keep pace with power creep.

    But thats not the only way to make money.

    For example, if they revamp older packs, people would actually buy those. For example, tangleroot is not exactly popular as it doesnt have reaper and most of the gear is obsolete except for like, the deathward clicky. Ive never touched Phiarlan carnival ever since I got the antique greataxe either, because theres way better xp/min at level 4 and the epic gear is outdated, so i probably wont do the epic version either.

    If they just keep adding new content without revamping older content, we just end up with tons of outdated content that is either only run for xp, to get an item (and then never again) or ignored almost entirely (most people dont touch tomb of the tormented for a reason).

    From a business standpoint, its very easy to quantify a new expansion = X dollars, but its not so easy to quantify how much money revamping older content brings in. But eventually, DDO will reach silly levels of bloat if the older content isnt revamped to keep pace with current content.

    And oddly enough, many of the newer quests are really bad for xp and only run for a few items. Tower of frost is basically only run for the necklace, lost at sea is only run for the goggles, etc. There is a definate trend to massive hp bloat in newer quests...gianthold is level 14 and mobs average 800 hp there, while lost at sea is like...level 15? And it has 2.3k hp mobs? Gianthold is fun to run, lost at sea is just zerging to the named chest and avoiding as many mob spawns as possible for the goggles and then never touching the quest again.
    Last edited by Question2005; 01-02-2019 at 01:30 AM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Annex's Avatar
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    If all customers wanted exactly the same thing, the developers could focus all their energy on that one thing. In the real world, individual customers want a vast array of different things with many of those things in direct opposition to one another! To provide the greatest good for the greatest number, thus realizing the greatest profits, the developers must continuously offer new quests, new rewards, and new systems on a rotational basis. That keeps all the customers equally unhappy but playing. ( HA HA! )

    I personally prefer new quests and new rewards above all things. I have played DDO on and off for 5 years. Without frequent influxes of new quests with new items to chase I grow very bored. Epic daily quests, while perfect for a non-gamer like me, get pretty stale after 300+ repetitions. Going back and running 'old stuff' provides some nostalgia, but not for very long.

    Proton, you obviously prefer new systems and I honestly believe you are in luck! As best I can tell, independent Trait Trees sell well so we can expect more of those. The new Sub-Race experiment seems a success so we can expect lots more of those. Cloaks were a very obvious success. Cosmetic Items continue to draw praise so expect more of that. It appears we have a new Race and new Iconic Character on the way. Last year, Wonedream pounded the pulpit pretty hard for Random Dungeons and it appears Sharn may include those. I thus conclude that the developers continue to service a wide variety of player interests, to the great displeasure of the more self absorbed among us. ( HA HA!)

    The Lord of the Rings Online offers the most fantastic game world I have ever personally experienced. Roaming around Middle Earth feels like wandering an alternate, mythic Earth. I would love to wander the Eberron equivalent but it would come at the price of far fewer dungeons. DDO does dungeons better than any other game I have tried so I would not give them up gladly.

    Cosmetic mounts would be fun. I get a huge kick out of riding my Rancor and Sail Barge around the space station in Star Wars. However, given the glacially slow addition of art assets to DDO, I doubt anything that fun will ever happen here.

    While I have zero interest in Player versus Player combat, I have nothing against it, either. Arena matches are extremely popular in Star Wars. If the developers could add such a thing without falling into the trap of 'balancing classes for PVP', it might draw some new revenue.

    I am an avid SCUBA diver and enjoy the few undersea settings in DDO but, to be quite honest, I find endless swimming boring and that whole undersea combat system needs serious work. I would place that very low on my personal priority list.

    Flying, while fun, would pretty obviously require major changes to the game engine. In some quests, I think the Sky Box rests, like, 30 feet above our heads! Again, I would place such an addition very low on my personal priority list.

    Now, all that written, games often make the greatest strides forward when they take the greatest risks so...who knows! Ignore the Doomkins. I have faith in the creative talents and dedication of all the DDO developers.
    Sophie the Cat Burglar - Creator, Dreamer, Explorer - Happy yet Sad - Seeker of Beauty and Wonder
    I wish you all many happy adventures! Good bye!

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