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  1. #1
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    Default Need feedback on half orc, Druid 17/Fighter 3 build

    I did this build because I have no epic destinies, so going Silvanus isnt an option.

    Druid 17/Fighter 3, Nature's Warrior t5.

    Level 1 : Martial Proficiency Greatsword (feat swap to power attack before taking level 4)

    Level 3 : Natural fighting (would be able to max out natural fighting by level 9)

    Level 4 : Fighter, cleave

    Level 5-9 : Druid

    Level 6 : Great Cleave

    Level 9 : Winter wolf form, Natural fighting 2

    Level 10 : Fighter, Improved critical

    Level 11 : Fighter for stalwart defense (much better than the nature defense stance for 2H without raging)

    Level 12-20 : Druid, lets me get +1 crit multiplier via the level 12 druid core enhancement

    Level 12 : Natural Fighting 3, also taking Nature's Warrior T5 for the MP boost

    Level 15 : Augment summoning (helps keep pet and hires going for longer)

    Level 18 : Mental Toughness for more SP, doesnt really matter at this point though

    The main benefit of this build is the simplicity for heroics (no iconics needed, no raging, no need to spam frenzy every 60s), and key spells like reincarnate, regenerate and snowslide at level 20. DCs of all animal form spells are also much higher due to a higher druid level.

    Enhancements wise, I did 9 points in Nature's Defender, swapping to 13 points in Stalwart Defense at level 11 for +6 str.



    Thats 70 points, with 10 points left over. Since I am TRing at 20, the last 10 points dont really matter, but I usually put them into Stalwart Defense's +weapon enhancement for more added damage. Unfortunately, Fighter 3 prevents you from getting the 10% movement speed boost.

    Due to low BAB, attack speed is painfully slow before getting winter wolf form at level 9. Single target DPS on low reaper felt OK, just that killing all those kobolds individually is quite slow at this point. Clearing mobs solo without cleaves really sucks. I dont get how people level 2wf or ranged builds with no AOE for most of heroics.

    Keeping the pet alive is actually pretty easy, except for the quests with mass AOE spam (like Abishais), but guild cargo hold buffs help a lot. The pet is mostly there just to trigger the +3 damage buff from Brother Wolf, but also does some minor damage. Draws very little aggro with the -threat enhancements.

    At level 20, I am hitting the ship's mage fire canon for about 110 slashing damage base, about 140 with +30 melee power from Go For The Kill. Survivability isnt an issue...I am getting similar AC, PRR and MRR to 2H Fighters. Note that this is with no epic past lives.

    Sneak attack damage is actually pretty significant...the problem is getting sneak attack damage to apply when enemies are targetting you almost all the time. I used a +7 spot diamond, and baiting bite usually failed on Bosses, and it only lasts 6 seconds anyway, which is pretty bad when Jaws of Winter and Throat Rip rely on sneak attacks for the full effects. With sneak attack, dps is extremely high, but the problem is how to get it on masses of mobs. Sneak attack doesnt apply to mobs that are knocked down as long as you have aggro, which is pretty silly.

    Main drawbacks :

    -Clearing mobs is slow at low levels due to low BAB and lack of cleaves

    -Its very difficult to get sneak attack dice as baiting bite only works on one enemy, can easily fail, and the 6s duration is way shorter than the cooldown. DPS when clearing quests would skyrocket if there was a way to easily get sneak attack to apply, but I cant think of anything short of "get a static group to make everything helpless for you" which isnt very feasible.

    And im not sure how effective this build would be in epics.

    Any suggestions?

  2. #2
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    Druid spells such as Sleet Storm and Sunbeam Blinds enemies and makes susceptible to sneak attack damage.

    Natures Warrior 1d6 for the first core and EVERY OTHER ****ING CORE, 2d6 for winterwolf form, and 6d6 when executing Throat Rip melee attack. Not too shabby.
    Last edited by Coffey; 12-23-2018 at 09:06 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Member Tricosene's Avatar
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    A deception item, such as the Golden Guile (which my druid wolf is wearing) will increase the opportunities for sneak attack.

    Remember that helpess creatures take sneak attack damage, unless they are immune to sneak attacks or have fortification. Snowslide induces helplessness, and I also took stunning blow for this reason. I have an armor piercing item to get thru fort. and I'm planning on taking precision for more.

    Are you sure baiting bite is only affecting one enemy? I've seen multiple enemies bluffed when I use it, although I haven't checked the combat log to see.

    I took a few different enhancements than you. Jaws of ice give temporary hit points each time Jaws of winter is used - so for me, the sneak attack effect on Jaws of winter is nice, but I use it reguarly for extra damage and hit points.

    I also have the Essenence of the Shrike enhancement. It gives temporary spellpoints and, with my flachion, goes off frequently.

    And I took Prey on the Weak to add more damage to helpless enemies - the ones I've stunned or frozen.

    I'm level 19 now and I expect that EH shouldn't pose any problems for me.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffey View Post
    Druid spells such as Sleet Storm and Sunbeam Blinds enemies and makes susceptible to sneak attack damage.

    Natures Warrior 1d6 for each core, 2d6 for winterwolf form, and 6d6 when executing Throat Rip melee attack. Not too shabby.
    Yes, but the downside is that sunbeam requires DCs (which will be poor without wis as a primary stat and with no spellcasting gear) and sleet storm requires you to cast FOM on your whole party for the quest and every time they shrine (gets annoying very quickly). It also doesnt work very well on spread out enemies like groups of archers.

    Nature's warrior says "every other core"...i thought this meant "every 2 cores", because otherwise the wording "every additional core" would make more sense?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricosene View Post
    A deception item, such as the Golden Guile (which my druid wolf is wearing) will increase the opportunities for sneak attack.

    Remember that helpess creatures take sneak attack damage, unless they are immune to sneak attacks or have fortification. Snowslide induces helplessness, and I also took stunning blow for this reason. I have an armor piercing item to get thru fort. and I'm planning on taking precision for more.

    Are you sure baiting bite is only affecting one enemy? I've seen multiple enemies bluffed when I use it, although I haven't checked the combat log to see.

    I took a few different enhancements than you. Jaws of ice give temporary hit points each time Jaws of winter is used - so for me, the sneak attack effect on Jaws of winter is nice, but I use it reguarly for extra damage and hit points.

    I also have the Essenence of the Shrike enhancement. It gives temporary spellpoints and, with my flachion, goes off frequently.

    And I took Prey on the Weak to add more damage to helpless enemies - the ones I've stunned or frozen.

    I'm level 19 now and I expect that EH shouldn't pose any problems for me.
    Yes, as i said, the thing is you only get snow slide at 20. And the only thing I do at 20 is farm tokens or get some favor. So it wont help in getting SA for leveling in heroics. Been trying it out and im not sure how useful it is...yes, it does make them helpless, but it also makes you zoom past the enemies so you have to waste time running back to melee. And go for the kill's 20s cooldown prevents you from using it all the time in conjunction with snow slide (unless your party waits for your cooldowns, which is unlikely).

    Using it in some quests also sends you flying off platforms.

    The temp sp from essence of the shrike is cool, but I found that you dont need it unless you are in a quest like coal chamber with a full caster party competing for souls.

    I didnt take anything to buff helpless damage because getting helpless is REALLY rare when leveling in heroics...almost all casters do nuking or instant kills and howl of terror doesnt apply helpless, which is quite silly as it forces you to go wis...but if bringing the build to epics, then yea, buffing helpless damage would be useful.

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    Maybe SSG can rebuild the Druid class to make you happy merry christmas

  7. #7
    Community Member MrTrolol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Yes, as i said, the thing is you only get snow slide at 20. And the only thing I do at 20 is farm tokens or get some favor. So it wont help in getting SA for leveling in heroics. Been trying it out and im not sure how useful it is...yes, it does make them helpless, but it also makes you zoom past the enemies so you have to waste time running back to melee. And go for the kill's 20s cooldown prevents you from using it all the time in conjunction with snow slide (unless your party waits for your cooldowns, which is unlikely).

    Using it in some quests also sends you flying off platforms.

    The temp sp from essence of the shrike is cool, but I found that you dont need it unless you are in a quest like coal chamber with a full caster party competing for souls.

    I didnt take anything to buff helpless damage because getting helpless is REALLY rare when leveling in heroics...almost all casters do nuking or instant kills and howl of terror doesnt apply helpless, which is quite silly as it forces you to go wis...but if bringing the build to epics, then yea, buffing helpless damage would be useful.
    Snowslide is actually quite useful and insanely strong, can freeze a large group of mobs and if you do it right you can turn right after you freeze the mobs and use the momentum from it to get right back at them.

  8. #8
    Community Member Tricosene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Yes, as i said, the thing is you only get snow slide at 20. And the only thing I do at 20 is farm tokens or get some favor. So it wont help in getting SA for leveling in heroics. Been trying it out and im not sure how useful it is...yes, it does make them helpless, but it also makes you zoom past the enemies so you have to waste time running back to melee. And go for the kill's 20s cooldown prevents you from using it all the time in conjunction with snow slide (unless your party waits for your cooldowns, which is unlikely).

    <snip>

    I didnt take anything to buff helpless damage because getting helpless is REALLY rare when leveling in heroics...almost all casters do nuking or instant kills and howl of terror doesnt apply helpless, which is quite silly as it forces you to go wis...but if bringing the build to epics, then yea, buffing helpless damage would be useful.
    Don't forget about your deception items for getting sneak attack: Golden Guile, Backstabber's Gloves, and deception weapons. If you're after sneak attack, there's plenty of ways to get it. Also, I've frequently gotten a Jaws of Winter freeze after baiting bite. If you're not getting sneak attacks in, it's just a matter of practice.

    You can totally get Snowslide before level 20. I was using it in heroics and I'm a fighter 2 / druid 18. It's just a choice between taking the additional fighter levels sooner and snowslide. It takes some practice to get the hang of targeting, but it really is amazing.

    Helpless was by no means rare for me in heroics: stunning blow, jaws of winter, and Snowslide all induce it.

  9. #9
    Community Member Tricosene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTrolol View Post
    Snowslide is actually quite useful and insanely strong, can freeze a large group of mobs and if you do it right you can turn right after you freeze the mobs and use the momentum from it to get right back at them.
    You're turning part way through Snowslide and using the momentum to get back to the mobs? I'll have to practice that. Great tip.

    I've been summoning my Ghost Wolf Pack afterwards and sending it at the pack of frozen mobs, which, although not exceptional, does give a nice AOE attack on them for little effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTrolol View Post
    Snowslide is actually quite useful and insanely strong, can freeze a large group of mobs and if you do it right you can turn right after you freeze the mobs and use the momentum from it to get right back at them.
    I dont see how snow slide is strong.

    I went into slave lords and recorded some videos to help illustrate the problem.

    (It helps if you play the videos back in slow-mo on your own player)

    First video : https://streamable.com/kndbl

    I zoom through one of the warchanters in the back, but he doesnt get frozen. Infact, only one of the melee guys gets frozen from what I can tell.

    Second video : https://streamable.com/vok05

    I zoom through more mobs, including one of the Slaver Deadeyes, but the Deadeye does not get frozen. I was testing as a level 17 druid, with a 20 str modifier, 1 fighter past life and a +3 insight bonus to stun, so the DC should have been at least 51.

    It doesnt help that the AOE seems to be literally the size of the wolf model, so basically one straight line. Not very impressive for a level 9 spell to be honest, especially as sound burst has a larger AOE and is like...a level 2 cleric spell? After hearing some people rave about how amazing snowslide was, I expected it to have a larger AOE at the very least.

  11. #11
    Community Member MrTrolol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    I dont see how snow slide is strong.

    I went into slave lords and recorded some videos to help illustrate the problem.

    (It helps if you play the videos back in slow-mo on your own player)

    First video : https://streamable.com/kndbl

    I zoom through one of the warchanters in the back, but he doesnt get frozen. Infact, only one of the melee guys gets frozen from what I can tell.

    Second video : https://streamable.com/vok05

    I zoom through more mobs, including one of the Slaver Deadeyes, but the Deadeye does not get frozen. I was testing as a level 17 druid, with a 20 str modifier, 1 fighter past life and a +3 insight bonus to stun, so the DC should have been at least 51.

    It doesnt help that the AOE seems to be literally the size of the wolf model, so basically one straight line. Not very impressive for a level 9 spell to be honest, especially as sound burst has a larger AOE and is like...a level 2 cleric spell? After hearing some people rave about how amazing snowslide was, I expected it to have a larger AOE at the very least.
    I have no idea why this is happening to you, when i ran my wolf in high reaper at cap i could snowslide and freeze 6 or so mobs, the hitbox isnt the size of the wolf from my experience. But yes, it is really good. Also I have noticed the full length isnt the whole hit box, for about half or so of the length is when mobs are frozen.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricosene View Post
    Don't forget about your deception items for getting sneak attack: Golden Guile, Backstabber's Gloves, and deception weapons. If you're after sneak attack, there's plenty of ways to get it. Also, I've frequently gotten a Jaws of Winter freeze after baiting bite. If you're not getting sneak attacks in, it's just a matter of practice.

    You can totally get Snowslide before level 20. I was using it in heroics and I'm a fighter 2 / druid 18. It's just a choice between taking the additional fighter levels sooner and snowslide. It takes some practice to get the hang of targeting, but it really is amazing.

    Helpless was by no means rare for me in heroics: stunning blow, jaws of winter, and Snowslide all induce it.
    Im trying to figure out if i can work in any old Deception items into my build (the kind that lets you sneak attack on a 5% chance per hit). Golden Guile uses a neck slot, which is pretty much a no-go...at level 14 im using the Util necklace which is pretty important to staying alive. Pretty sure there are no good 2H deception weapons either, and i have armor-piercing/str on gloves.

    Yea you can get jaws of winter to proc after baiting bite. But lets be realistic here...most mobs in heroics way too quickly for that. If they are not dying that quickly, then you are clearing the quest too slowly because killing 100+ mobs is the norm and if all those trash mobs live long enough for baiting bite, you are going to have a hard time. Baiting bite works on bosses, but not 100% of the time...I dont understand how the "bluff check" works. Of course I am trying to increase my spot, but I had to resort to using a ML 12 Diamond of spot because I couldnt fit in a spot item anywhere else.

    If you look at the progression I posted in the OP, You will see that I cant get snowslide before 20 without giving up stalwart defense.

    Helpless is extremely rare in heroics...post LFMs and you will see what I mean. I usually only see 1 or 2 people per 1-20 life who can induce helpless in heroics, and what you need is AOE helpless, not single target helpless from stunning blow, because that doesnt work on bosses (which are usually the only mobs who live long to matter). If theres a pack of 8 mobs, running in and stunning 1 guy isnt going to increase your clear speed much.

    (Obviously things are different if you are in a static running high reaper in heroics).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTrolol View Post
    I have no idea why this is happening to you, when i ran my wolf in high reaper at cap i could snowslide and freeze 6 or so mobs, the hitbox isnt the size of the wolf from my experience. But yes, it is really good. Also I have noticed the full length isnt the whole hit box, for about half or so of the length is when mobs are frozen.
    Can you post a video of how snowslide works for you please? In heroic slave lords if possible.

  14. #14
    Community Member MrTrolol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Can you post a video of how snowslide works for you please? In heroic slave lords if possible.
    Sorry can't currently on a different life.

  15. #15
    Community Member Tricosene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Im trying to figure out if i can work in any old Deception items into my build (the kind that lets you sneak attack on a 5% chance per hit). Golden Guile uses a neck slot, which is pretty much a no-go...at level 14 im using the Util necklace which is pretty important to staying alive. Pretty sure there are no good 2H deception weapons either, and i have armor-piercing/str on gloves.

    Yea you can get jaws of winter to proc after baiting bite. But lets be realistic here...most mobs in heroics way too quickly for that. If they are not dying that quickly, then you are clearing the quest too slowly because killing 100+ mobs is the norm and if all those trash mobs live long enough for baiting bite, you are going to have a hard time. Baiting bite works on bosses, but not 100% of the time...I dont understand how the "bluff check" works. Of course I am trying to increase my spot, but I had to resort to using a ML 12 Diamond of spot because I couldnt fit in a spot item anywhere else.

    If you look at the progression I posted in the OP, You will see that I cant get snowslide before 20 without giving up stalwart defense.

    Helpless is extremely rare in heroics...post LFMs and you will see what I mean. I usually only see 1 or 2 people per 1-20 life who can induce helpless in heroics, and what you need is AOE helpless, not single target helpless from stunning blow, because that doesnt work on bosses (which are usually the only mobs who live long to matter). If theres a pack of 8 mobs, running in and stunning 1 guy isnt going to increase your clear speed much.

    (Obviously things are different if you are in a static running high reaper in heroics).
    You asked for feedback; I'm sorry that my feedback doesn't work for you and that we have such different experiences.

    I certainly hope that you find a build that you enjoy.

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