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  1. #1
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    Default Naked Iconic Build ~ Test/Challenge

    The challenge part of this post is "can you solo Elite Disciples of Shar with a brand new baby Iconic, no extra gear?" If so, what build? How'd you deal with the boss pack? What do you win? Well, just my admiration, I'm afraid. I, OTH, will hopefully win a bit of DDO education.

    --

    Where is this coming from? I've been using Iconics and that quest to test various things: trials for disposable farmers, general gameplay (I'm new), and the effect of various gear/stat changes. One thing really surprised me was the difficulty of soloing this quest on Elite with a new Iconic. My fresh L1~5 newbie breezed through elites and typical D&D 3.5e is usually punishing pre-9~12. My first tests essentially blew half their SP/resources just clearing the first pack.

    So, I'm curious if this is a good example of Solo Elite play or if it's harder (or easier) than usual. It has 3 aspects that I'd deem difficult: packs of archers with a champ cleric (this quest's version of "yard trash"), two packs of 3x champ lions (scripted wakeup), and the boss fight with a scripted wakeup -- pack of archers & melee, one champ cleric, & one boss cleric.

    I've had moderate success with two builds; both can kill all but the final battle. One is a brute-force tanky warlock and the other (more fun) is a VKF/Bard/Rogue/Barbarian. BTW, the SLAs for the morninglord aren't affected by ASF, but he can't cast a single spell with armor on (hence the lack of Evard's, plus it needs TS to find the lion cave).

    The third one (not posted here) was almost as nice as these, but couldn't down the 3x Lions: Shadar-Kai VKF Warlock/Rogue (Fey to daze-lock the champs while dealing with archers). Shining & Vampiric dagger to heal works great, just not enough AC to handle 2x lions KD tag-teaming him.

    Code:
    Z15-ML-Reeker
    12/2/1 Warlock/Favored Soul/Cleric
    Chaotic Neutral Morninglord
    
    1. Cleric          6. Warlock        11. Warlock
    2. Warlock         7. Favored Soul   12. Warlock
    3. Warlock         8. Warlock        13. Warlock
    4. Favored Soul    9. Warlock        14. Warlock
    5. Warlock        10. Warlock        15. Warlock
    
    Stats          32pt     Level Up
                   ----     --------
    Strength         9       4: CON
    Dexterity       12       8: CON
    Constitution    15      12: CON
    Intelligence    12
    Wisdom          10
    Charisma        16
    
    Skills    C  W  W  F  W  W  F  W  W  W  W  W  W  W  W
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
             ---------------------------------------------
    Spellcr   4  1  1     2  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  18
    UMD             2     1  2     1  2  2  2  2  2  1  1  18
    Heal      4        3        3                          10
    Jump      2                                      1  1   4
    Tumble       1                                          1
             ---------------------------------------------
             12  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3
    
     1        : Quicken Spell
     1 Deity  : Follower of: Amaunator
     2 Warlock: Pact: Fiend
     3        : Maximize Spell
     6        : Extend Spell
     7 FavSoul: Grace of Battle
     9        : Empower Spell
    12        : Enlarge Spell
    15        : Mental Toughness
    
    Warlock
       1. Detect Secret Doors (2), Jump (3), Command (3)
       2. Blur (6), Protection from Energy (11), Rage (8)
       3. Dimension Door (10), Haste (14), Fire Shield (12)
       4. True Seeing (13)
    Favored Soul
       1. Obscuring Mist (4), Nimbus of Light (4), Nightshield (7)
    Cleric
       1. Cure Light Wounds (1), Remove Fear (1), Bless (1)
    
    Enhancements (56+1 of 60+1 AP)
    
    Enlightened Spirit (37 AP)
        • Eldritch Aura, Aura of Courage, Shape Vestments, Aura of Menace
             1. Spiritual Defense III, Resilience of Soul I
             2. Resist Energies I, Spiritual Bastion III, Power of Enlightenment III, Shield
             3. Eldritch Burst III, Spiritual Ward III, Power of Enlightenment III
             4. Spiritual Retribution III, Brilliance
             5. Spirit Blast III, Shining Through, Displacement
    
    Soul Eater (8 AP)
        • Inhuman Understanding
             1. Consume, Taint the Blood, Hungry for Destruction I
             2. Stricken III
    
    Tainted Scholar (7 AP)
        • Tainted Spellcasting
             1. Planar Power I, Feigned Health III
             2. Utterdark Blast
    
    Angel of Vengeance (4 AP)
        • Font of Power
             1. Scourge III
    
    Morninglord (1 AP)
        • Elven Accuracy
    This one is MUCH more fun to play, mostly because it has more options for dealing with things than wade in and light yourself on fire. The single target DPS is crazy, but it REQUIRES the Shadar-Kai starter Reward dagger for it's vampiric healing effect. So, I don't think this build could ever fly as anything other than a niche L15 farmer.

    Code:
    Z15-VKF-Bardsmash
    11/2/2 Bard/Barbarian/Rogue
    Chaotic Neutral Shadar-kai
    
    1. Rogue           6. Barbarian      11. Bard
    2. Bard            7. Bard           12. Bard
    3. Bard            8. Bard           13. Bard
    4. Bard            9. Bard           14. Bard
    5. Bard           10. Barbarian      15. Rogue
    
    
    Stats          32pt     Level Up
                   ----     --------
    Strength         8       4: DEX
    Dexterity       18       8: DEX
    Constitution    14      12: DEX
    Intelligence    14
    Wisdom           8
    Charisma        14
    
    Skills   Rg Bd Bd Bd Bd Bn Bd Bd Bd Bn Bd Bd Bd Bd Rg
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
             ---------------------------------------------
    Perform   2  3  1  1  1     2  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  18
    Search    4  ½  1½ 1  1  1     2  1  1     2  1  1  1  18
    Hide      4  1  1  1  1     2  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  18
    Move Si   4  1  1  1  1     2  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  18
    UMD       4  1  1  1  1     2  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  18
    Disable   4        ½  ½  2        1  2        1  1  4  16
    Balance   4  1  1  1                                    7
    Jump      4           1                                 5
    Swim      4                                             4
    Haggle    3                                             3
    Tumble    1                                             1
             ---------------------------------------------
             40  8  8  8  8  6  8  8  8  6  8  8  8  8 10
    
     1        : Single Weapon Fighting
     3        : Extend Spell
     6        : Weapon Finesse
     9        : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    12        : Improved Critical: Piercing
    15        : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    
    Bard
       1. Cure Light Wounds (2), Focusing Chant (3), Merfolk's Blessing (4), Detect Secret Doors (7)
       2. Blur (5), Cure Moderate Wounds (5), Glitterdust (7), Invisibility (9)
       3. Cure Serious Wounds (9), Displacement (9), Good Hope (11), Haste (13)
       4. Dimension Door (13), Freedom of Movement (13), Summon Monster IV (14)
    
    Enhancements (56+1 of 60+1 AP)
    
    Vistani Knife Fighter (24 AP)
        • Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist
             1. Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
             2. Vistani Knife Training, Bleeding Cuts, Mist Stalker
             3. Vistani Knife Training, Deadly Blades, Dexterity
             4. Vistani Knife Training, Celerity
    
    Swashbuckler (13 AP)
        • Confidence, Swashbuckling
             1. On Your Toes III, Tavern Shanties III
             2. Fast Movement
             3. Dashing Scoundrel, Swift Strikes
    
    Warchanter (11 AP)
        • Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism
             1. Inspired Bravery II, Poetic Edda III, Rough and Ready III
    
    Occult Slayer (8 AP)
        • Weapon Bond
             1. Ear Smash III, Parrying Bond I
             2. Knockout III
    
    Shadar-kai (1 AP)
        • Shadar-kai Grit
    My next trial will be a fey version of the warlock: trade powered fire damage for unpowered sonic and a no-save daze. That daze might be just enough if the dps loss doesn't extend the fights too much.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    All of the builds in my Iconics thread are meant to be viable with minimal or no extra gear. Also check the Iconic Challenge Farmer thread.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    All of the builds in my Iconics thread are meant to be viable with minimal or no extra gear. Also check the Iconic Challenge Farmer thread.
    Those two threads are where I got the idea to use Iconics to find out what the game is like past raw newbie. You and ElisDee (sp?) have great ideas and your contributions to the forum are a tremendous boon to the game. IMHO, the closest to "ready" would be a warlock morninglord, which I think just needs non-asf armor. It's OK as is, but an Evard's at the boss would have done wonders (LOS to get them to pack up for it). A casting shield like Fanion permits Fey over Fiend for champ-CC + more AC, too.

    However, IMHO, none of those builds can solo that quest on elite using just their birthday gear. Archer AI here is a step up from the classic brain-dead AI in other MMOs and it's just a simple "spread out to avoid melee and AE". It also makes this quest a real bear if you can't take being peppered by 4~8 archers while killing things 1x1. All those builds can handle sub-elite -- looks like higher difficulties add archers. I don't know if the ++archers thing is unique to this quest or a generic add for elite at this level and perhaps higher.

    Hmm, I'm wondering about the DG build and if the cleric champ AI is smart enough to swap to light|positive. If they brainlessly cast negatives, that would be hilarious and might let DG do all but lions. I don't think it has KD immunity, champ CC, or enough AC to take on 3 lions at once (and it lacks disable for the bear-trap split).

    =~=~= some commentary, long and likely only useful for other newbies

    BTW, I've since managed to clear everything, including the boss fight using a variant of the VFK Bardsmash build. It wasn't the build change that did it (less dps, more AC & tmp hp via "I like pain"). Extra AC was v.nice, but "I like Pain" was useless; it almost never procs. It was a tactical change: swap "summon monster I" for detect doors. Sneak at the boss-pack with your giant rat exposed. Everything jumps the rat in a nice tight little ball for fascinate, which was the biggest issue doing the classic singing charge -- stuff was too spread out. Smash/cc the champ, kill the boss, take out the trash. BTW, don't use a strong pet or hireling that has an AE; if they live and just one critter remains un-cc'd they'll AE the entire pack.

    I suspect rat-bait would work as well with invisible, but invis seriously drains sp if you use it often. The entire reason that strat is needed on the boss is due to the scripted wake-ups; nothing at the boss can be targeted without running in amongst them to wake them up. Invis+rat should hopefully adapt to other caster builds, too; eg. to create a nice pack for Evard's.

    For the lions, disable device is important unless you have 2x champ-CCs, lots of AC, or KD immunity. Clear a path through the bear traps & pull lions into traps. Repeat until you have at most one untrapped. Kill it. The others leash back when they can't reach you. Rinse, repeat. Smash reduces two lions to one, but most of the time all lions get trapped, so no need. This is a special environment-based strategy. I prefer a global method -- perhaps pull, smash, keep running to leash the others, go back for the CC'd. Maybe just circle strafe with a throwing dagger on auto-attack?

    It's a real shame vampiric isn't available on other daggers. VKF+Swash is incredibly fun. Maybe an Anthem item to permit liberal Fascinate + CSW pots + a crit-profile dagger would let this build stroll away from the vampiric as a real (beyond-L15) build. More dps = less time to take damage. IMHO, a build that needs any specific gear at all is extremely unfriendly to newbies; it presents a chicken & egg style dilemma. If you like starting as Shadar-Kai and don't mind risking it maybe *needing* the vampiric forever, this build is a lot of fun. At some point, I'll likely use this one again as a L15 farmer because it has so many tactical options available. It's completely disposable. And, a little BtA gear would only improve it while maintaining it's disposable nature.

    I'd like open-locks. Sneak feels like the best skill-trade for that. It's really only an sp-saver and nice for exploring (1st time raw newbie). Invisible zeroes SP pretty quickly if used often. If OK with the ultra-annoying scroll and clicky use in this game (swap in, use, swap out), invisibility scrolls would work for SP-savings, too. Better player-skill at timing a fascinate-charge further reduces sneak's utility. If your trash-packs are melee, there's no need at all -- jog around them in a circle while singing (build has gear + 10% + bard-levels% runspeed).

  4. #4
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    Seems like it should be doable with a DG EK. I'm not VIP so I can't try this on a first-lifer, unfortunately.

    15 Wizard or 13 Wiz / 2 Rogue, depending on whether you want to be able to deal with bear traps. As a new 15 you'll have 56 AP: 40 points EK (all T5s), 11 points PM (Vamp form), remainder DG. Run acid spellsword for synergy with starting spellpower, pick up some AOE acid DOTs for dealing with groups such as the lions. With Neg Energy Bursts and Death Aura you'll have a decent burst heals and HOTs despite no negative spellpower from equipment

  5. #5
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    when there was the alabaster liones "free" for vips i purchased 1 month and created 1 toon in every server and ran quests on elite (i would say it was before reaper lol) at lvl til getting 2k favor

    why 2k? cause... getting less would be less tp lol, also i though i would be able to manage it and yes, it worked

    the toon was called rerollme and it was a LN morninglord 1 clr/1wiz/18 warlock, mostly because after creation i ran w/o armor and the rest of the gear was quite useful, the armor is heavy so it's a no-no, but gear is mostly fire-positive-light

    it was con based (as 1st lifer w/o times it's not like a big difference lol), empower+maximize, took extend for buffs, eschew materials (yes, i know, but i didn''t want to spend time looking for guilds or teleports nor didn't have cash to purchase mats XD) and both mental toughness cause... you know, i would say it was to cast some more tentacles

    IIRC it was something like 11TS and 45 ES
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discpsycho View Post
    Seems like it should be doable with a DG EK.
    The one part about trying a wizard that worries me is my own experience with them in 3.5e outside DDO is that they're VERY dependent on DC. The little testing I did with a DC Warlock in DDO says "if it has a DC, it won't work". I'm attributing that to lack of specific gear and past-lives to fix that issue; ie. it's a first-life problem. Or, simply a lack of knowledge on my part. Not only do you need to get your DC up, but you have to know which critters are and are not susceptible to particular spells.

    You mentioned EK/PM, which I've not tried, but read about a bit -- so, potentially no DC requirements and self-healing. You do need a TON of healing, though, to deal with the insane arrow-peppering from every pack on way to the final. I'm wondering if vamp-form + melee would provide that; it would be highly amusing if the cleric champs stuck to harm spells.

    The final fight would be tough. DC-based would certainly help deal with the trash (even if half made the save on Banshee, it would still be helpful). Does EK/PM contain any no-save CC that would work on a champion? CC'ing the cleric would help immensely.

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    LN morninglord 1 clr/1wiz/18 warlock, mostly because after creation i ran w/o armor and the rest of the gear was quite useful
    Ya, I have a 1clr/14war morninglord that provides lots of brainless fun -- just run in and burst away, though it's not quite strong enough to do that on the finale in Disciples of Shar. One tip for those with both Iconic and the Ravenloft stuff: go run "Into the Mists" as the first thing on an Iconic. You're highly likely to get some nice things in the chest, but the real reason is for the free Barovian weapon immediately afterwards (exit via the gate at the finish and jog down the path a bit to the free-weapon NPC). You get your pick of anything and those weapons are phenomenally better than all but Shadar-Kai's "Reward" dagger -- for about 10m of effort.

    Also, for a Warlock, I'd recommend Fey pact. It's lower DPS due to mismatch on ML's gear and due to lack of easy access to stacking pact-power (no burnscar sash equiv), but you get a no-save 20s CC that works on orange named at Warlock L6. Fey grants another no-save CC later via Otto's, but I've not leveled one of these chars high enough to try that yet.

  7. #7
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Have you tried a verson of the ac builds? Paladin fighter, wiz 1?

    Bladeforged adds self heals and great sword dps whille the pdk adds shield ac/cc.
    Not sure if you get enough enh points by 15 to pull it off, though.

  8. #8

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    I would do an uncentered SDK assassin, 1 monk/1 fighter (at level 12)/13 rogue. 4 AP in ninja for stacking faster sneaking.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Jetrule's Avatar
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    The test you run is the same one I have used. It is a bit challenging for a baseline quest especially doing the hidden cave optional. I find that the one shrine about 3/4 way through makes it too tough for most casters.

    The first character I completed it on was a pure fighter pdk vanguard focused running with Tempys the cleric hireling, and potions of cold resist from the Estar arcane vendor. I have done it with several builds using that hire even casters with the cleric hires divine vitality adding just enough spell points.

    As for true no hire soloing successes, I built a 1 fighter 14 druid pdk when druid got its recent pass and stomped it with a bear/wolf druid melee build. I think I picked up non metallic armor and a heal power item from my shared bank though. Probably a shield with a positive spell power ruby.

    On the end fight unless I am charming I pull all the mobs back into the caves till the bosses leash then turn to fight the mobs, then the mephits then the priestess then the red name priest.

    I most recently tried and failed with a deepgnome wizard eldritch knight build. It was all out of the box gear but hitpoints and defenses were just a bit too low for elite solo. I am sure it would have done it with a hire but I was just testing spell sword and general EK dps. I think I have done it with a deep gnome wizard who used alot of charm spells but I am not 100% if he was in starting gear.
    Last edited by Jetrule; 01-16-2019 at 12:55 PM.
    Percivaul Dusol, BadRandall and Shortpact--The Silver Legion

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