Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    2

    Default Is Stealth viable?

    Hi,
    I made a warforged ninja spy monk, based off one of my favourite 5e PCs. However, I'm noticing it's pretty hard to sneak up on most monsters, even ones I thought would be pretty easy, like Kobolds or Devourer Cultists. A lot of players on the forums are saying that stealth has been made much harder. Is this true, or are my skills just too low? My hide is 10, and my move silently is 16.
    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    308

    Default

    TL;DR: Stealth is hard, but possible

    Your Move Silently and Hide skills depend on the enemies you're facing, so I can't pass judgment on your skills without some context. What level are you, what dungeons are you running, and on what difficulties? Based on my gut, those values seem fine for a level 2, low for a level 4, and probably aren't going to cut it in Elite difficulties.

    Most of the vets you see posting about stealth are referring to stealth in Reaper, where the developers have disincentivized it by giving reapers Tremorsense, etc. You're also more likely to find champs in reaper, many of whom have See Invisible or True seeing

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Sorry, I forgot to say I'm level 3. I'm finishing the quests in Stormreach harbour on average difficulty. Sounds like I should just boost hide when I level up then.

  4. #4
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by quickflash797 View Post
    Sorry, I forgot to say I'm level 3. I'm finishing the quests in Stormreach harbour on average difficulty. Sounds like I should just boost hide when I level up then.
    I have been playing up a first life assassin the last few weeks. I keep move silently and hide maxed, and most of the time I don't even need to use +stealth items for it to be useful in normal or hard. I use it mainly to quickly hit exploration points in some wilderness areas, to take out high priority targets with assassinate, and to get off Sneak attack damage.

    The main thing I do is have a hireling out and go into stealth before I enter a room. The mobs see my hire first, and so target them rather than me. As long as the mobs are targeting your hireling rather than you, you will get the extra sneak attack damage and can very quickly pick off everyone one by one. The more distractions you have with you the easier it is to pull off. So, for example, if you see a cleric hireling near your level that has summon monster available use that one.

    I was also careful to build my character so that he still does pretty good damage in a straight up fight. For a rogue, I find a dex or int to damage build is key for this. You simply won't have enough points to have really high strength and still be good at sneaking and traps. Getting your bluff up high enough to be reliable also helps a lot (and is also useful in quests for skill checks surprisingly often).

    There aren't a ton of quests designed for you to stealth all the way through them. However, that's not really what I use it for. I just like seeing things melt when I assassinate them and / or do absurd damage with sneak attacks. YMMV.
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 12-20-2018 at 06:19 PM.

  5. #5

    Default

    check links in my sig

    It is problematic in reaper, sometimes a hoot normally. Sneak speed boosts stack in different trees fyi
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer), Saelegion (parked at level 4!)


  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    297

    Default

    Disclaimer = I'm a bad player but I have been playing a rogue for a year. If you want to hear about how elite players can stealth everything ... read elsewhere.

    What Stealth Can't do (reliably... for me)

    In my experience, for a average or below average player, you're not going to be able to stealth a dungeon. In fact, many doors won't open unless you clear the room.
    Some mobs spawn auto-aggro on you because of script so you can be seen right from the start.
    Dungeons alerts have everything zero in on you like they're the Borg or something.

    What Stealth CAN do (reliably... for me)

    Scoping out a room to determine threats.
    Disarming traps before the party / hirelings storm the room.
    Slinking away from the general melee to take out archers / casters that are hanging back, hopefully without the pack seeing you.
    Clicking on levers and the like, without aggro, in the middle of a staged fight.

    And, if you happen to be a rogue with stealth... assassinate i.e. take out 1 mob, (2 if you have 2 weapon fighting) as your "Hi! I'm here!" move. Don't use on end boss mobs, but it does sometimes work on optional boss mobs. It's inconsistent.

    I hope this helps.
    Last edited by Dalris_Thane; 12-20-2018 at 10:54 PM.

  7. #7
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    166

    Default

    From my little experience, stealth works when:

    1) It is not a champ/boss monster, and
    2) you have very high move silently, and
    3) no monster is looking towards your direction, or you can use cover, or you have invisibility, or perhaps have such a high hide that the monster can not see you (only managed it in really low levels)

    About actual uses?
    I would say only to trigger sneak attack or other special ability.
    You can not use stealth to navigate a dungeon as everything u do breaks stealth :-/
    Rarely, you can use it to skip past some battle. Probably, you could skip past that battle without the use of stealth and just a good timed run/jump.

    I would personally, liked to see Dungeons that you can solve only by stealth! And I would like that the DCs would be normal, just for the fun of it. Stealthy repossession is a dungeon that gives you the impression it is going to be like that. But in the end, you end up just running around being hunted by kobolts... Simpler and faster. Probably the ideal way is to wear your heaviest armor take a tower shield do a lot of defensive buffs and run... Meanwhile you can kill some of the enemies and just ignore the ones that are not supposed to die!

    The game does implement a form of line of sight! I have not completely figured that out, (or at least sometimes the line of sight is not clear) but if you master the line of sight mechanism I guess you can start using stealth much more efficiently.

    The hearing part of the monsters is harder to trick, also it appears if the hear you == with pinpoint you.
    So being invisible without having stealth and high move silently is useless.

    Cheers

  8. #8
    Community Member Armatone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Far Western NC
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Stealth is a game of patience and observation. Stealthy Repo most certainly CAN be done using stealth. My first few tries were utter failures. Then I remembered that assassins are supposed to be observant and patient. You cannot ZERG in stealth. However, using 'expeditious retreat' clickies or spells, using hide/move siltelntly gear, boosting your move stealth speed (Stealthy in the assassin tree) and invisibility will greatly improve your chances of success. Most dungeons cannot be stealthed due to "biometric" locks on doors, assault style dungeons and such.

    Disable Devices does not break stealth, nor does search. Attacking, of course will break it. Using switches and levers will. Set your "stealth" mode on an easy to access hot key.

    Learn (nail down) your maneuvering and attacking keyboard pattern. Observe where the MOBs are and any patterns of movement. See which MOBs are facing a wall and consoder ignoring them at the start. Look for where a strike is possible to take out as many as possible ( I have managed to get as many as five) before aggro happens, even running solo.

    Don't forget to use height as a possible tool (eg. dropping in from above).

    It isn't easy, but you CAN stealth up to champions, bosses and the end boss. Most of them any way. Defeating them is another story.

    Use bluff to thin the heard. Against 2-3 MOBs assassins are deadly. More than that becomes problematic.

    Line of sight and stealth... if your hide and move silently are high enough you can move right up to them while they are looking in your direction. What will trip you up is tremor sense and true sight. Cannot stealth with those against you. If your hide & move silently are not that high then using cover and being patient and waiting for the MOB to turn it's back to you is your best option.

    Saekee has a stealth challenge that lists a lot of the 'stealthable' dungeons.

    Then again I like to 'speed stealth' - moving quickly between encounters and then hit like a tornado out of no where and moving on - as most dungeons do not give you credit for fewer kills. I generally move slow and steady the first few times through, then speed stealth it for a while and then try and pure stealth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igognito View Post
    From my little experience, stealth works when:

    1) It is not a champ/boss monster, and
    2) you have very high move silently, and
    3) no monster is looking towards your direction, or you can use cover, or you have invisibility, or perhaps have such a high hide that the monster can not see you (only managed it in really low levels)

    About actual uses?
    I would say only to trigger sneak attack or other special ability.
    You can not use stealth to navigate a dungeon as everything u do breaks stealth :-/
    Rarely, you can use it to skip past some battle. Probably, you could skip past that battle without the use of stealth and just a good timed run/jump.

    I would personally, liked to see Dungeons that you can solve only by stealth! And I would like that the DCs would be normal, just for the fun of it. Stealthy repossession is a dungeon that gives you the impression it is going to be like that. But in the end, you end up just running around being hunted by kobolts... Simpler and faster. Probably the ideal way is to wear your heaviest armor take a tower shield do a lot of defensive buffs and run... Meanwhile you can kill some of the enemies and just ignore the ones that are not supposed to die!

    The game does implement a form of line of sight! I have not completely figured that out, (or at least sometimes the line of sight is not clear) but if you master the line of sight mechanism I guess you can start using stealth much more efficiently.

    The hearing part of the monsters is harder to trick, also it appears if the hear you == with pinpoint you.
    So being invisible without having stealth and high move silently is useless.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Armatone; 12-22-2018 at 12:14 AM.

    Corner Merchants Forums: http://corner-merchants.forumotion.com/

  9. #9
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    4,324

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by quickflash797 View Post
    are my skills just too low? My hide is 10, and my move silently is 16.
    ...
    Sounds like I should just boost hide when I level up then.
    If they're not both at max, yes, boost them to max.

    There are very few skills that are useful when not at max. Any contested skill (your skill vs. dungeon level) should be at max. Hide (vs. mob Spot) and MS (vs. mob Listen) are two such skills - having "a little" doesn't help at all. This means skill, enhancements, and gear.

    (The only exception to "max" skill are characters that have reincarnated and get boosts to those skills from that. But they're just going a diff path to get the identical max values.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Armatone View Post
    Stealth is a game of patience and observation. Stealthy Repo most certainly CAN be done using stealth.
    Here is a Level 3 build that can do exactly that, w/ video and target values for MS/Hide:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5701827

  10. #10
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    5,983

    Default

    A change i'd like to see would be for the stealthy feat to allow activation of doors & levers while sneaking, but with the trade-off that it takes 2x or maybe even 3x as long to do it - it'd make the sneaky playstyle a lot more viable.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

  11. #11
    Community Member janave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    Viable as in the primary gig of the character to complete instances, or to solo to cap? NO
    Viable as in a group role? Outside reaper in some specific instances MAYBE
    Viable as a backup strategy? Outside reaper SOMETIMES
    Viable as an immersion additive? SOMETIMES

    It depends on how much you want out of it, going full into stealth can cost quite a bit of dps, defense, other types of utility. The game is pretty much set up for gauntlet style play lately. So outside reaper the best clear speeds will be survivable characters spamming AoEs mindlessly.

    I prefer other games to play gauntlet / arcade action.

    But you can still use it to great effect in a few instances. And it just feels good to complete something the pro way.

  12. #12
    Community Member janave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyDuck81 View Post
    A change i'd like to see would be for the stealthy feat to allow activation of doors & levers while sneaking, but with the trade-off that it takes 2x or maybe even 3x as long to do it - it'd make the sneaky playstyle a lot more viable.
    This.

    and,

    - It would also help newer, more casual players enjoying stealth if the detection interval would be slightly increased, a check every current_interval+1500-1750ms would already help a lot for decision making.
    - Let players ignore tiny damage, eg lower than 1% maxhps for action interruption. This would make sense for everyone, but mostly stealth chars benefit. 1200hps characters really dont need to be interrupted if they take 2pts of damage.

  13. #13
    Community Member ZeeDatRogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    222

    Default

    I'd also like to see a trap alacrity too, disabling/picking locks with a bit more speed.
    Orien: Level 400 Cannith Crafter
    (*) - Crafter Advert for Orien

    "The 'forever' rogue"

  14. #14
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    5,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeDatRogue View Post
    I'd also like to see a trap alacrity too, disabling/picking locks with a bit more speed.
    Could add that to the nimble fingers feat A lot of those skill-boosting feats could do with a little extra something to make them more interesting rather than just being a hold-over from the old days.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

  15. #15
    Community Member Dulcimerist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Montana, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeDatRogue View Post
    I'd also like to see a trap alacrity too, disabling/picking locks with a bit more speed.
    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyDuck81 View Post
    Could add that to the nimble fingers feat A lot of those skill-boosting feats could do with a little extra something to make them more interesting rather than just being a hold-over from the old days.
    /signed for both sweet ideas!
    "Swords will cut you wide open!" - Trip Fisk

  16. #16
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    An undisclosed location. I asked my captors but they remain tight lipped.
    Posts
    357

    Default

    /signed.
    Great ideas!
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload