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  1. #1
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    Default Chewbacca's Bowcaster

    Focus:
    This build is primarily magical damage delivered at range. The player will use a combination of Repeater (enhanced by spellsowrd and Endless Fusillade and IPS), rune arm, and spells to inflict damage. The idea behind it is that Spellsword is directly enhanced by both doubleshot and haste. Sending more bolts downrange is a linear DPS increase. Players with a decent number of past lives will be able to keep their DC's high enough to do serious damage with spells and your Rune Arm as well. Synergies between EK/BE/Arcano are the key to good dps.


    Arty-EK
    16/4 Wizard/Artificer
    Deep Gnome


    Level Order

    1. Wizard . . . . .6. Wizard . . . . 11. Wizard . . . . 16. Wizard
    2. Artificer . . . 7. Wizard. . . . .12. Wizard. . . . .17. Wizard
    3. Artificer . . . 8. Wizard. . . . .13. Wizard. . . . .18. Wizard
    4. Artificer . . . 9. Wizard. . . . .14. Wizard. . . . .19. Wizard
    5. Artificer . . .10. Wizard. . . . .15. Wizard. . . . .20. Wizard



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . .8. . . .+7. . . .4: INT
    Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+7. . . .8: INT
    Constitution. . 16. . . .+7. . . 12: INT
    Intelligence. . 20. . . .+7. . . 16: INT
    Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . .+7. . . 20: INT
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+7. . . 24: INT
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT


    Skills
    . . . . . W. A .A. A .A. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W
    . . . . . 1. 2 .3. 4 .5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Disable . . .4. 2 .1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Open Lo . . . . 6 .1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Search. . 2. 3 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Spot. . . 2. 3 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    UMD . . . 2. . . . 5 .1. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1½ 1½ 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .12 10 10. 9 .5. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 11 11 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
    Max . . .28 10 10 11 11. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 12 12 12 12 13



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
    .1 Wizard : Maximize Spell
    .3. . . . : Rapid Shot
    .5 Arti . : Precise Shot
    .6. . . . : Precision
    .9. . . . : Completionist
    .9 Wizard : Quicken Spell
    12. . . . : Empower Spell
    14 Wizard : Heighten Spell
    15. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
    18. . . . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
    19 Wizard : Spell Focus: Evocation
    21 Epic . : Improved Precise Shot
    24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    26 Destiny: Holy Strike
    27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
    28 Destiny: Doubleshot
    29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior
    30 Epic . : Wellspring of Power
    30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Air


    Spells

    Wizard
    1. Jump (1), Shield (1), Electric Bolt (1), Expeditious Retreat (6), <Any>
    2. Web (7), Resist Energy (7), Blur (8), Electric Loop (10), Scorch (13)
    3. Lightning Bolt (9), Haste (9), Displacement (10), Chain Missiles (12), <Any>
    4. .Dimension Door* (11), Stoneskin (11), . Wall of Fire* (12), Acid Rain (14), <Any>
    5. Ball Lightning (13), . Eladar's Electric Surge* (13), . Cloudkill* (14), <Any>, <Any>
    6. Chain Lightning (15), Tenser's Transformation (15),. .Acid Fog* (16), Greater Heroism (18)
    7. Prismatic Spray (17), Mass Hold Person (17), . Otto's Sphere of Dancing* (18), Mass Protection from Elements (20)
    8. .Greater Shout* (19),. .Black Dragon Bolt* (19),. .Incendiary Cloud* (20)

    Artificer
    1. . Conjure Bolts* (2),. .Enchant Weapons* (2), . Enchant Armor* (3)
    2. Insightful Strikes (4), Lucky Cape (5)


    Enhancements (80+1 AP)

    Battle Engineer (28 AP)
    • Battle Engineer, Infused Weapons
      1. Crossbow Training, Field Engineer II, Thaumaturgical Conduits III
      2. Crossbow Training, Extra Action Boost III
      3. Crossbow Training, Intelligence
      4. Crossbow Training, Endless Fusilade, Agility Engine III

    Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (23 AP)
    • Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force
      1. Improved Mage Armor III, Battlemage I
      2. Improved Shield III, Mystic Wards III, Spellpower Boost III
      3. Arcane Barrier, Synergetic Magic
      4. Armored Arcana

    Arcanotechnician (17 AP)
    • Arcanotechnician
      1. Static Shock III, Arcane Skills I, Wand and Scroll Mastery III
      2. Shocking Vulnerability III
      3. Lightning Sphere III

    Harper Agent (12 AP)
    • Agent of Good I, Intelligence
      1. Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
      2. Know the Angles III
      3. Strategic Combat

    Deep Gnome (1 AP)
    • Wariness

    Leveling Guide
    15. Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp1 Strategic Combat; Hrp0 Intelligence; Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II, III; Hrp3 Strategic Combat; BE0 Battle Engineer; BE1 Crossbow Training; BE1 Field Engineer I, II; BE0 Infused Weapons; BE2 Extra Action Boost I, II, III; BE1 Thaumaturgical Conduits I, II, III; BE2 Crossbow Training; BE3 Crossbow Training; BE3 Intelligence; BE4 Crossbow Training; BE4 Endless Fusilade; EKw0 Eldritch Strike; EKw1 Improved Mage Armor I, II, III; EKw1 Battlemage I; EKw0 Spellsword; EKw2 Improved Shield I, II, III; EKw2 Mystic Wards I; EKw0 Imbue the Blade; EKw2 Mystic Wards II, III; EKw3 Arcane Barrier; EKw2 Spellpower Boost I; EKw3 Synergetic Magic; EKw2 Spellpower Boost II, III; EKw4 Armored Arcana; DPG0 Wariness
    16. EKw0 Subtle Force; Arc0 Arcanotechnician; Arc1 Arcane Skills I; Arc1 Wand and Scroll Mastery I, II
    17. Arc1 Wand and Scroll Mastery III; Arc2 Shocking Vulnerability I
    18. Arc2 Shocking Vulnerability II, III; Arc1 Static Shock I
    19. Arc1 Static Shock II, III; Arc3 Lightning Sphere I, II
    20. Arc3 Lightning Sphere III; BE4 Agility Engine I, II, III


    Destiny (24 AP)

    Shiradi Champion
    1. Stay Frosty II, Healing Spring II
    2. Prism, Pin II
    3. Rainbow, Otto's Whistler II
    4. Double Rainbow, Stay Good III
    5. Stand and Deliver, Nerve Venom III
    6. Rain of Arrows

    Twists of Fate (26 fate points)
    1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
    2. Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
    3. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
    4. Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)

  2. #2
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    Feature of the build:

    Deep Gnome provides: Not much. If you have a ton of racial AP to spend due to past lives, you could go up the gnome tree for extra dmg from Light repeaters and get some PRR, etc along the way. Aside from that, nothing.
    Wizard provides: Feats, EK tree, Lightning bolt, displacement, DDoor, AOE, chain missiles
    Arty provides: repeaters, trapping, feats, spellcasting, run arm use, dog for levers, merdium armor, AOE healing for groups, UMD for scrolls
    Harper provide: Int to hit/dmg

    EK provides:
    • ghost touch
    • Spellsword with 5D8 damage dice
    • Medium armor with no ASF
    • 10 PRR/10 MRR
    • +10% AC
    • Synergistic magic
    • Arcane barrier
    • Spellpower Action Boost



    BE Provides:
    • Endless Fussilade
    • 10% doubleshot
    • Extra aciton boosts
    • Faster rune arm recharge



    Arcano grants:
    • Static shock SLA for possible daze
    • Lightning sphere SLA for daze CC and Vulnerability
    • Shocking vunlerability
    • Wand and Scroll Mastery



    Shiradi + twists grant:
    • Prism
    • Pin
    • Rainbow/double rainbow
    • otto's whistler
    • Stand and Deliver
    • Nerve venom
    • Rain or Queen
    • Sense weakness
    • More action boosts!

  3. #3
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    Synergies of the build:
    • Int for trapping, hit, dmg
    • Spellsword synergizes with repeaters. Each attack will hit 3 times with full spellword damage.
    • Spellsword synergizes with EF/Haste. No cooldown on spellsword means the extra shots from EF or due to haste are at full dps
    • Spellsword synergizes with IPS. Every bolt will deliver spellsword damage to every mob hit in the IPS line
    • Spells synergize with shocking vulnerability and arcane warrior
    • Repeaters synergize with Arcane warrior, creating stacks faster.
    • Lightning bolt synergizes with IPS. LB can be lined up to hit multiple targets using the same mechanism as IPS.
    • Synergistic magic synergizes with IPS/EF/Haste since you can use EF and spellpower boost at the same time and both spellpower and ranged power are buffed by 30.
    • Extra action boost synergizes with all action boosts, impacting spellpower boosts, haste boosts, and EF.
    • EF/Haste/Doubleshot synergize with Shiradi
    • Wizard AOE synergizes well with Shiradi
    • Arcane warrior synergizes with repeater and sharadi


    Cons:

    • The build is very much back loaded and intended for an iconic life. You could run it 1-30 on another race, but it would likely need the leveling path changed to play faster at 1-10 if you are power leveling. It does not get IPS until 21, which pretty makes it much ineffective if you are only going 1-20. The build also requires a +5 Dex tome to get IPS. If you dont have that, shift some points around so you get a 19 Dex by 21.
    • Another issue will be super high end game DC's. You do not get 9th level spells, reducing max DC by 1. Addiitonally PL:Wiz and some Evo focus feats are not available due to feat starvation. Going human might be an answer here, but I don't think the majority of the damage will be from spells, so you are not going to lose a ton of dps on high EE+ content.
    • You are giving up some spellsword dice in this build. A level 20 wiz does 6D12 (jumping to 10d12) vs 5d8 on this build. That is 33(65) vs 22.5 electric dmg per hit before spellpower. However, this is offset by the additional DPS from using a repeater (3 hits makes it 67.5) then you take into account EF, haste boost, ranged power boost, spellpower boosts, vulnerability, etc
    • This build doesn't have a great crit profile.
    • Lastly, the build is very electric based. It can easily switch to other types of damage (Fire/Cold/Acid) when needed, but you won't have the same spellpower as you do for electric.
    Last edited by Sproutecus; 12-19-2018 at 08:59 AM.

  4. #4
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    Equipment:

    EK builds are tricky when it comes to equipment, but this one is better than most since you dont have to focus on anything beyond evocation, and even that is optional.

    Weapon: Start with Fatal Flaw or Heavy Boltslinger, and use silver slinger for DR breaking. If you are lucky enough to have epic silver slinger, switch to that at 20 for Blugeoning. (also possibly switching to LD for more physical dmg). At 26 the TOEE Xbow with electric vulnerability is a great option if you have it. After that you have Epic Fatal Flaw and Ravenloft xbows before hitting 30.

    Rune Arm: You will want an electric rune arm for spellpower and to synergize your rune arm attacks with the rest of your gear. A cannith crafted one @ level 17 with +4 Evo, electric spellpower and insightful electric spell power would last you to 30 in most cases. You could make another at 23 is you have the mats as well.

    Goggles: Get the goggles from the new quest. They are amazing for any int character.
    Belt: Obviously the Ravenloft belt

    Other stats you will want (aside from the usual, deadly, seeker, fort, etc)
    • Force SP/crit (for Shiradi procs, Fey Power, chain missles, etc)
    • Potency (for Shiradi and AOE spells)
    • wizardry
    • doublestrike
    • try to have have a 15% ranged alacrity at 20 so you can stop spamming haste on yourself.





    Play:

    This plays like a basic Endless Fusillade repeater build with some additional functionality. Keep haste, stoneskin, and displacement running for the extra defense. For boss fights, focus on getting vulnerability up through electric spells. For large packs use AOE electric and cloud spells for both vulnerability and Shiradi procs. Use CM as an opener or when EF is on cooldown and CM is not for shiradi procs. But the most important thing is to use EF CONSTANTLY. If you have never run an EF build before, you might be tempted to save your EF's for bad pulls or boss fights. But you will have 9-12 EF's per rest. Thats almost always more than you will need, even if you spam it. (some folks like haste boost better, and it might be depending on the length of the fight. I prefer EF for the spike damage, especially combined with IPS. In epics you will have some decent CC with nerve venom,Otto's, and pin. Stand and deliver is also a nice to have while in groups.
    Last edited by Sproutecus; 12-19-2018 at 08:26 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sproutecus View Post
    Equipment:

    EK builds are tricky when it comes to equipment
    So tricky in fact that fairly well fleshed out build posts don't even bother to list them. But gearing IS the kicker for EK concepts and without having found and posting a gearset it's hard to not immediately assume that both a caster focused build and a range focused build would be better.

    Also I'm pretty certain that shiradi procs only scale with spellpower if they proc on a spell.

    I guess I'm just left wondering what a build like this offers over a pure repeater arti or a shiradi wizard, or really any pure wizard.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    ..
    I guess I'm just left wondering what a build like this offers over a pure repeater arti or a shiradi wizard, or really any pure wizard.
    Near zero.

    Arti has repeater damage and spell damage (elec nuke from arcanotech). Arties do get spells.

    Pure wizard could burn a feat or two. Rapid reload, 1x repeater weapon prof and do some pew-pew.

    I like MC. But I wouldn't go like this. Maybe Wiz18/Art2, but thats about it. No fusilade, but can insta-kill, CC like a pro and could get better spellsword damage dice.


    P.S.:
    Personaly I think EK is a noob trap, but would be happy if someone proves me wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriogen View Post
    Near zero.

    Arti has repeater damage and spell damage (elec nuke from arcanotech). Arties do get spells.

    Pure wizard could burn a feat or two. Rapid reload, 1x repeater weapon prof and do some pew-pew.

    I like MC. But I wouldn't go like this. Maybe Wiz18/Art2, but thats about it. No fusilade, but can insta-kill, CC like a pro and could get better spellsword damage dice.


    P.S.:
    Personaly I think EK is a noob trap, but would be happy if someone proves me wrong.
    I think it's a noob trap also. With past lives and top end gear a melee EK can be solid DPS. I'm working on something right now that does really good damage but I'm afraid the HP issue makes it a no go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriogen View Post
    Near zero.

    Arti has repeater damage and spell damage (elec nuke from arcanotech). Arties do get spells.

    Pure wizard could burn a feat or two. Rapid reload, 1x repeater weapon prof and do some pew-pew.

    I like MC. But I wouldn't go like this. Maybe Wiz18/Art2, but thats about it. No fusilade, but can insta-kill, CC like a pro and could get better spellsword damage dice.


    P.S.:
    Personaly I think EK is a noob trap, but would be happy if someone proves me wrong.
    I do think EK has viable 2nd tier load outs both in heroic and epics. It is not up there with lock and a couple other top tier builds, but definitely viable. I was in the middle of an EK build racial life when E41 went live. I had a suboptimal build (went THF with riftmaker instead of dagger/orb) and I was still leading the kill counts in my group (locks and a FvS). A big part of that is the instakills as you indicated. but the melee DPS was solid, even on R4-5. And I was doing very good dps on boss fights. I was not nearly as squishy as I thought I would be. Only real issue was self healing. That is definitely an issue.


    As for the pure arty repeater/caster build, there are better uses for the AP than Arcano IMO. There is aa reason EF builds are solid for 1-30 I did try to put together a 16 arty/4 wiz just for spellsword and the defensive buffs, and the spellsword dmg was just too low (1d6).


    18/2 vs 16/4 is a tradeoff for sure. 18/2 gives you (5D10 vs 5D8), wail and mass hold. But it also means you will likely run into gearing issues in EE content. 16/4 has slightly less spellsword dmg , but you get EF (or haste boost) and 10% doubleshot in the trade off. Thats a LOT of DPS. Plus wail means you are in melee range. Love it for a melee EK, not for ranged. Mass Hold is amazing though, so if you could make an 18/2 that could relaibly mass hold in EE and ER content it would be a very solid setup.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    So tricky in fact that fairly well fleshed out build posts don't even bother to list them. But gearing IS the kicker for EK concepts and without having found and posting a gearset it's hard to not immediately assume that both a caster focused build and a range focused build would be better.

    Also I'm pretty certain that shiradi procs only scale with spellpower if they proc on a spell.

    I guess I'm just left wondering what a build like this offers over a pure repeater arti or a shiradi wizard, or really any pure wizard.


    Honestly, Im not sure the trade off is worth it. It looks like it on paper, but Ill have to play through to 30 to be sure.Here is how I see the trade off:

    • If you are pure arty, you are trading (+1 dmg, +1 hit for Core 4, +1 dmg for Core5, and +4 int, +1 crit bonus and roughly 20 SP for Core 6. T5 gives you +5W, +1 to crit range, +20 ranged power, and Thundershock (which scales on ranged power). You also get IPS a few levels earlier.
    • If you go with a rogue/arty/ftr EF build you are likely giving up some EF charges, strike with no thought, and some sneak attack dmg. (depending on how you split it). IPS earlier too
    • Both of these will have a better BAB than an EK build so are a bit faster (unless you use tensors which lessens the spells you can use)


    +1 to crit profile gives you 5% more crits and 33% more dmg on crits. Lets assume 18-20/x2 goes to 17-20x3. That is a roughly 15% increase in DPS. Add the other stuff and you bump it by another 5-20% depending on your ranged power. Let's call it 30%. On fatral flaw, assuming you can put the same gear on both toons, and you end up with ([2.5]x5.5)+5X30%= 5.6 more dmg per hit (someone please check my math on this...not 100% on it)

    Now what do you get with 16/4 split- Displacement, haste, stoneskin, a ton of spells including AOE and instakills, a lot of spell flexibility, DDoor, CC, your damage is split between physical and magical, you can easily swap to different types for DR breaking and/or vulnerability of specific mobs if needed, you can, and to utilize the ravenloft belts to jack up your spellpower in a way you could never do with ranged power (Enh bonus/Insight bonus/quality bonus/equipment bonus). There are just more sources of spellpower.

    For spellsword alone, before you take electric vulnerability into account, you end up with (22.5 dmg per hit)x spellpower multiplier. Assuming 210-250 spellpower at 15, you end up with 47.25 to 56.25 electric damage per bolt.

    Looking at mobs, this would be better against elementals and contructs, but worse against demons and devils. (assuming you have DR breaking for physical dmg)


    That seems like a no brainier to me. Unless I'm missing something, which I very well might be.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sproutecus View Post
    I do think EK has viable 2nd tier load outs both in heroic and epics. It is not up there with lock and a couple other top tier builds, but definitely viable. I was in the middle of an EK build racial life when E41 went live. I had a suboptimal build (went THF with riftmaker instead of dagger/orb) and I was still leading the kill counts in my group (locks and a FvS). A big part of that is the instakills as you indicated. but the melee DPS was solid, even on R4-5. And I was doing very good dps on boss fights. I was not nearly as squishy as I thought I would be. Only real issue was self healing. That is definitely an issue.


    As for the pure arty repeater/caster build, there are better uses for the AP than Arcano IMO. There is aa reason EF builds are solid for 1-30 I did try to put together a 16 arty/4 wiz just for spellsword and the defensive buffs, and the spellsword dmg was just too low (1d6).


    18/2 vs 16/4 is a tradeoff for sure. 18/2 gives you (5D10 vs 5D8), wail and mass hold. But it also means you will likely run into gearing issues in EE content. 16/4 has slightly less spellsword dmg , but you get EF (or haste boost) and 10% doubleshot in the trade off. Thats a LOT of DPS. Plus wail means you are in melee range. Love it for a melee EK, not for ranged. Mass Hold is amazing though, so if you could make an 18/2 that could relaibly mass hold in EE and ER content it would be a very solid setup.
    I don't think dagger/orb is likely optimal as that then encourages vistani spending and has terrible range on the cleaves. TWF seems like it would get the most out of the toggles and it's hard to pass on 30% incorporeal as a pm, even in reaper, maybe especially in reaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sproutecus View Post
    ... Mass Hold is amazing though, ....
    Burst of Glacial Wrath is also nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    So tricky in fact that fairly well fleshed out build posts don't even bother to list them. But gearing IS the kicker for EK concepts and without having found and posting a gearset it's hard to not immediately assume that both a caster focused build and a range focused build would be better.

    Also I'm pretty certain that shiradi procs only scale with spellpower if they proc on a spell.

    I guess I'm just left wondering what a build like this offers over a pure repeater arti or a shiradi wizard, or really any pure wizard.
    A lot of doublerainbow procs use spellpower. I cant remember if rainbow and the other pure dmg ones do(I think so?). Also not sure if Rain of arrows procs shiradi)
    Last edited by Sproutecus; 12-19-2018 at 11:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriogen View Post
    Burst of Glacial Wrath is also nice.
    for sure, although this build is feat starved, and Im not sure how good it (or any CC) would work in EE and ER content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    I don't think dagger/orb is likely optimal as that then encourages vistani spending and has terrible range on the cleaves. TWF seems like it would get the most out of the toggles and it's hard to pass on 30% incorporeal as a pm, even in reaper, maybe especially in reaper.
    I thought TWF would be best as well, but people who tested said it was not. Not sure why. The SWF dagger/orb or Kopesh/orb build was found to be the best option according to the folks who tested it in Lam. This is due to the fact that the spell dmg is the same regardless of how you are attacking. SWF gets the attack speed bump, and orb. On my THF Great axe build, I was hitting for about 125 at 20, including on cleave procs. Thats good, but the slow attack speed is tough. Plus going Orb allows you another slow for gear, which makes a difference. You have a point on the cleave reach though. That is something to consider.
    Last edited by Sproutecus; 12-19-2018 at 12:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sproutecus View Post
    I thought TWF would be best as well, but people who tested said it was not. Not sure why. The SWF dagger/orb or Kopesh/orb build was found to be the best option according to the folks who tested it in Lam. This is due to the fact that the spell dmg is the same regardless of how you are attacking. SWF gets the attack speed bump, and orb. On my THF Great axe build, I was hitting for about 125 at 20, including on cleave procs. Thats good, but the slow attack speed is tough. Plus going Orb allows you another slow for gear, which makes a difference. You have a point on the cleave reach though. That is something to consider.
    I posted a build theory that keeps the Silent Avenger set and still gets good spellpower. I just can't see SWF being better. Sure the attack speed and 1.5 attribute mod is great but 80% offhand is most definitely more imbue hits. I could easily be wrong though so hopefully people see it and talk about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    I posted a build theory that keeps the Silent Avenger set and still gets good spellpower. I just can't see SWF being better. Sure the attack speed and 1.5 attribute mod is great but 80% offhand is most definitely more imbue hits. I could easily be wrong though so hopefully people see it and talk about it.
    Maybe the melee scaling from 24-30 means that physical damage would still be king in higher epics levels? It confuses me as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sproutecus View Post
    Maybe the melee scaling from 24-30 means that physical damage would still be king in higher epics levels? It confuses me as well.
    With the numbers I came up with it seems like the imbue toggles are actually pretty strong and the melee doesn't suffer a ton. But the gearing is absolutely hardcore strict.

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    Apologies in advance for the long text, but I've been fiddling with Eldritch Knights for a while and a lot of the commentary I saw above doesn't seem to match what I see as the virtues of tree.

    Various notes:
    - Repeating Crossbows are pretty fast at low levels. By endgame, they can’t really compete for raw attack speed with the buzzsaw-like frenzy of SWF and TWF builds.

    - Losing 4 levels of Wizard drops those weapon procs from 45.5 to 22.5. If your concern is doing adding magical dice of damage, this is crippling.

    - Yes, Shiradi procs only scale with spellpower on spell casts. On ranged attacks, they do not receive a boost from spellpower.

    - At the high end, Great Crossbow builds tend to crush Repeater builds for dps due to the excellent support in Mechanic and the asymmetric benefit Great Crossbow receives from Fusilade.

    - Because you can select the Elemental damage, it’s almost purely upside from the standpoint of Elemental strengths/weaknesses. Moreover, the nature of building an EK is such that most of your spellpower will be universal anyway.

    - The only ‘large’ weapon I’ve seen that is remotely practical would be Khopesh. Every other decent build I’ve seen is light, finessable weapons (primarily Daggers). Doing any TWF build without VKF normally isn’t practical since you lose 20% off-hand right off the top. You could potentially make an argument for Handwraps since you get a +10% boost and 90% off-hand (with the kind of investment you can make with EK), plus the elemental debuff attack.

    - The hit point concern is a non-concern. A pure EK has 7 hp/level. Which means they’re less than one toughness feat behind a Fighter. Considering how trivial the impact of your heroic level hit points are on your total hit points, your EK could get 0 hit points from heroic levels and still be fine in endgame.[/ul]

    On SWF vs. TWF:
    - non-Tempests tend to have trivial amounts of off-hand doublestrike, meaning your primary hand hits ~80% more often than your off-hand.

    - Eldritch Tempest hugely emphasizes primary hand damage and it’s a huge component of your potential damage.

    - TWF is harder to stat since Dexterity is normally a dump stat for Wizard EK (not a huge deal, but worth mentioning for builds that don’t have tomes).

    - I don’t believe Spellsword procs on off-hand attacks. I’ve never seen it do so, but I haven’t heard other people mention this phenomenon so I’ll reserve judgement for now.[/ul]

    On gear:
    I think the problem people have with gear is that they’re thinking about Eldritch Knight in the wrong way. They’re trying to build a Tempest Ranger out of an arcane caster class rather than trying to build an arcane caster that just so happens to deliver damage via melee. Once you wrap your mind around this notion, the gearing issues people imagine start to vanish.

    Consider a very basic build:
    Code:
    Wizard 20
    True Neutral Deep Gnome
    
    
    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . .6. . . .+8. . . .4: INT
    Dexterity . . . .8. . . .+8. . . .8: INT
    Constitution. . 16. . . .+8. . . 12: INT
    Intelligence. . 20. . . .+8. . . 16: INT
    Wisdom. . . . . 18. . . .+8. . . 20: INT
    Charisma. . . . .6. . . .+8. . . 24: INT
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT
    
    Skills
    . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Repair. . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Heal. . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    Diplo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½. 1½ 1½ 2. 2. 2.  . .11
    Jump. . . . .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .1 .1 .1 .1 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ . . 11
    Swim. . . . . . . .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .2 .1½ ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 11
    Tumble. . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    Balance . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7
    Spot. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½.  .5
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .28. 8. 8. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 12 12 12 12 13
    
    
    Feats
    
    .1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
    .1 Wizard : Quicken Spell
    .3. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
    .5 Wizard : Heighten Spell
    .6. . . . : Spell Penetration
    .9. . . . : Mental Toughness
    10 Wizard : Spell Focus: Illusion
    12. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    15. . . . : Combat Expertise
    15 Wizard : Extend Spell
    18. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
    20 Wizard : Improved Mental Toughness
    21 Epic . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    24 Epic . : Intensify Spell
    26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . : Wellspring of Power
    28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior
    30 Epic . : Arcane Insight
    30 Legend : Scion of: Feywild
    
    
    Enhancements (80+1 AP)
    
    Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (41 AP)
    • Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force, Subtle Force II, Eldritch Blade
      1. Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon III, Toughness II
      2. Improved Shield III
      3. Arcane Barrier, Eldritch Accuracy, Intelligence
      4. Knight's Transformation, Orb Saves III, Force's Point, Intelligence
      5. Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Controller, Force's Edge, Eldritch Tempest III
    Deep Gnome (15 AP)
    • Wariness, Intelligence, Wariness II, Intelligence
      1. Illusory Escape
      2. Color Spray III
      3. Spellcraft II, Illusion Focus III
    Vistani Knife Fighter (13 AP)
    • Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist
      1. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
      2. Haste Boost III
      3. Fan of Knives
    Harper Agent (12 AP)
    • Agent of Good I, Intelligence
      1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
      2. Know the Angles III
      3. Strategic Combat
    Destiny (24 AP) Shadowdancer
    1. Acrobatic III, Intelligence
    2. Lithe I, Intelligence
    3. Shrouding Strike III, Grim Precision I, Intelligence
    4. Improved Invisibility III
    5. Untouchable, Sealed Soul
    6. Shadow Form, Dark Imbuement
    Twists of Fate (32 fate points)
    1. Energy Burst: Electricity (Tier 4 Draconic)
    2. School Specialist: Illusion (Tier 2 Magister)
    3. Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
    4. Imp. Combat Expertise (Tier 2 Dreadnought)
    5. Draconic Presence (Tier 1 Draconic)
    Gear
    Pain, the Half of Whole (Dagger): Fetters of Unreality, Improved Deception, Sovereign Vorpal, Deception +17
    Legendary Barovian Nobles’ Regalia (Armor): Spell Lore +10 (Exceptional), Spellpower +20 (Exceptional), Fortification +202%, AC +19 (Shield)
    Legendary Legendary Thrummingspark Cord (Waist): Cold/Electric Spellpower +202 (Enhancement), Cold/Electric Spell Critical +29%
    Legendary Blurfingered Gloves (Glove): Threat Reduction -31%
    Legendary Beacon of Magic (Set): Spell Power +50 (Artifact), Spell Focus +2 (Artifact), MRR +10 (Artifact), Missile Deflection +5% (Artifact)
    The Legendary Mistfallen (Orb): Threat Reduction -15% (Insight), Spell Focus +4 (Insight)
    Legendary Spinneret (Ring): Spell Critical +15, Spellpower +32 (Quality), Spell Focus +2 (Quality), Spell Penetration +7
    Legendary Acolyte’s Lenses (Goggles): Intelligence +19, Intelligence +9 (Insight), Spell Points +206 (Insight), Spellcraft +22
    Legendary Lore-fueled Packbanner (Bracers): Constitution +9 (Insight), PRR +50, Doublestrike +10% (Insight)
    Legendary Reflective Bloodstone (Necklace): Illusion +8, Illusion Focus +1 (Quality), Spell Penetration +8, MRR +50
    Legendary Mantle of Fury (Cloak): Constitution +19, Doublestrike +22%, Dodge +19%
    Legendary Flightfoot Greaves (Feet): Freedom of Movement, Speed +30%, Natural Armor +19, Reflex Save +16
    Legendary Pansophic Circlet (Head): Spellpower +131, Spellpower +65 (Insight), Spellpower +15 (Quality), Magical Efficiency 10%
    Adherent of the Mists (Set): PRR +20 (Profane), Healing Amplification +20 (Profane), Melee Power +10 (Profane), Spellpower +20 (Profane)[/ul]

    Ring and Trinket crafted (e.g. +4 quality Intelligence from Slavelord’s)
    Augments as desired
    Filigrees: OIP: Constitution, OIP: Intelligence, OIP:Spellpower, OIP:PRR,OIP:Will, FW:Intelligence, FW:PRR, FW:Cold Spellpower.

    Basically, it's an Illusionist/Enchanter who uses Electric damage. You’ve got competitive DC to land your control spells and you just a limited set of offensive spells (Eladar’s, etc.) to back up your Spellsword damage. Between Epic Defensive Fighting, Evasion, Incorporeality and Displacement, you’ve got a reasonably good ability to stick in melee against enemies that are likely to be stunned/held/whatever. Unlike a conventional Wizard, you can endlessly pour damage into the enemy at a fairly high rate. No, it’s not the rate a Tempest Ranger could, but it’s still a lot better than you’d be able to otherwise maintain. You can also blow up the entire room in a way the Ranger can't - with Energy Burst, Fan of Knives, Eldritch Tempest/Strike all on top of one another.
    Last edited by Hjarki; 12-19-2018 at 10:09 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    734

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    Apologies in advance for the long text, but I've been fiddling with Eldritch Knights for a while and a lot of the commentary I saw above doesn't seem to match what I see as the virtues of tree.

    Various notes:
    - Repeating Crossbows are pretty fast at low levels. By endgame, they can’t really compete for raw attack speed with the buzzsaw-like frenzy of SWF and TWF builds.

    - Losing 4 levels of Wizard drops those weapon procs from 45.5 to 22.5. If your concern is doing adding magical dice of damage, this is crippling.

    - Yes, Shiradi procs only scale with spellpower on spell casts. On ranged attacks, they do not receive a boost from spellpower.

    - At the high end, Great Crossbow builds tend to crush Repeater builds for dps due to the excellent support in Mechanic and the asymmetric benefit Great Crossbow receives from Fusilade.

    - Because you can select the Elemental damage, it’s almost purely upside from the standpoint of Elemental strengths/weaknesses. Moreover, the nature of building an EK is such that most of your spellpower will be universal anyway.

    - The only ‘large’ weapon I’ve seen that is remotely practical would be Khopesh. Every other decent build I’ve seen is light, finessable weapons (primarily Daggers). Doing any TWF build without VKF normally isn’t practical since you lose 20% off-hand right off the top. You could potentially make an argument for Handwraps since you get a +10% boost and 90% off-hand (with the kind of investment you can make with EK), plus the elemental debuff attack.

    - The hit point concern is a non-concern. A pure EK has 7 hp/level. Which means they’re less than one toughness feat behind a Fighter. Considering how trivial the impact of your heroic level hit points are on your total hit points, your EK could get 0 hit points from heroic levels and still be fine in endgame.[/ul]

    On SWF vs. TWF:
    - non-Tempests tend to have trivial amounts of off-hand doublestrike, meaning your primary hand hits ~80% more often than your off-hand.

    - Eldritch Tempest hugely emphasizes primary hand damage and it’s a huge component of your potential damage.

    - TWF is harder to stat since Dexterity is normally a dump stat for Wizard EK (not a huge deal, but worth mentioning for builds that don’t have tomes).

    - I don’t believe Spellsword procs on off-hand attacks. I’ve never seen it do so, but I haven’t heard other people mention this phenomenon so I’ll reserve judgement for now.[/ul]

    On gear:
    I think the problem people have with gear is that they’re thinking about Eldritch Knight in the wrong way. They’re trying to build a Tempest Ranger out of an arcane caster class rather than trying to build an arcane caster that just so happens to deliver damage via melee. Once you wrap your mind around this notion, the gearing issues people imagine start to vanish.

    Consider a very basic build:
    Code:
    Wizard 20
    True Neutral Deep Gnome
    
    
    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . .6. . . .+8. . . .4: INT
    Dexterity . . . .8. . . .+8. . . .8: INT
    Constitution. . 16. . . .+8. . . 12: INT
    Intelligence. . 20. . . .+8. . . 16: INT
    Wisdom. . . . . 18. . . .+8. . . 20: INT
    Charisma. . . . .6. . . .+8. . . 24: INT
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT
    
    Skills
    . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Repair. . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Heal. . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    Diplo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½. 1½ 1½ 2. 2. 2.  . .11
    Jump. . . . .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .1 .1 .1 .1 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ . . 11
    Swim. . . . . . . .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .2 .1½ ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 11
    Tumble. . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    Balance . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7
    Spot. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½.  .5
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .28. 8. 8. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 12 12 12 12 13
    
    
    Feats
    
    .1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
    .1 Wizard : Quicken Spell
    .3. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
    .5 Wizard : Heighten Spell
    .6. . . . : Spell Penetration
    .9. . . . : Mental Toughness
    10 Wizard : Spell Focus: Illusion
    12. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    15. . . . : Combat Expertise
    15 Wizard : Extend Spell
    18. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
    20 Wizard : Improved Mental Toughness
    21 Epic . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    24 Epic . : Intensify Spell
    26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . : Wellspring of Power
    28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior
    30 Epic . : Arcane Insight
    30 Legend : Scion of: Feywild
    
    
    Enhancements (80+1 AP)
    
    Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (41 AP)
    • Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force, Subtle Force II, Eldritch Blade
      1. Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon III, Toughness II
      2. Improved Shield III
      3. Arcane Barrier, Eldritch Accuracy, Intelligence
      4. Knight's Transformation, Orb Saves III, Force's Point, Intelligence
      5. Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Controller, Force's Edge, Eldritch Tempest III
    Deep Gnome (15 AP)
    • Wariness, Intelligence, Wariness II, Intelligence
      1. Illusory Escape
      2. Color Spray III
      3. Spellcraft II, Illusion Focus III
    Vistani Knife Fighter (13 AP)
    • Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist
      1. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
      2. Haste Boost III
      3. Fan of Knives
    Harper Agent (12 AP)
    • Agent of Good I, Intelligence
      1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
      2. Know the Angles III
      3. Strategic Combat
    Destiny (24 AP) Shadowdancer
    1. Acrobatic III, Intelligence
    2. Lithe I, Intelligence
    3. Shrouding Strike III, Grim Precision I, Intelligence
    4. Improved Invisibility III
    5. Untouchable, Sealed Soul
    6. Shadow Form, Dark Imbuement
    Twists of Fate (32 fate points)
    1. Energy Burst: Electricity (Tier 4 Draconic)
    2. School Specialist: Illusion (Tier 2 Magister)
    3. Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
    4. Imp. Combat Expertise (Tier 2 Dreadnought)
    5. Draconic Presence (Tier 1 Draconic)
    Gear
    Pain, the Half of Whole (Dagger): Fetters of Unreality, Improved Deception, Sovereign Vorpal, Deception +17
    Legendary Barovian Nobles’ Regalia (Armor): Spell Lore +10 (Exceptional), Spellpower +20 (Exceptional), Fortification +202%, AC +19 (Shield)
    Legendary Legendary Thrummingspark Cord (Waist): Cold/Electric Spellpower +202 (Enhancement), Cold/Electric Spell Critical +29%
    Legendary Blurfingered Gloves (Glove): Threat Reduction -31%
    Legendary Beacon of Magic (Set): Spell Power +50 (Artifact), Spell Focus +2 (Artifact), MRR +10 (Artifact), Missile Deflection +5% (Artifact)
    The Legendary Mistfallen (Orb): Threat Reduction -15% (Insight), Spell Focus +4 (Insight)
    Legendary Spinneret (Ring): Spell Critical +15, Spellpower +32 (Quality), Spell Focus +2 (Quality), Spell Penetration +7
    Legendary Acolyte’s Lenses (Goggles): Intelligence +19, Intelligence +9 (Insight), Spell Points +206 (Insight), Spellcraft +22
    Legendary Lore-fueled Packbanner (Bracers): Constitution +9 (Insight), PRR +50, Doublestrike +10% (Insight)
    Legendary Reflective Bloodstone (Necklace): Illusion +8, Illusion Focus +1 (Quality), Spell Penetration +8, MRR +50
    Legendary Mantle of Fury (Cloak): Constitution +19, Doublestrike +22%, Dodge +19%
    Legendary Flightfoot Greaves (Feet): Freedom of Movement, Speed +30%, Natural Armor +19, Reflex Save +16
    Legendary Pansophic Circlet (Head): Spellpower +131, Spellpower +65 (Insight), Spellpower +15 (Quality), Magical Efficiency 10%
    Adherent of the Mists (Set): PRR +20 (Profane), Healing Amplification +20 (Profane), Melee Power +10 (Profane), Spellpower +20 (Profane)[/ul]

    Ring and Trinket crafted (e.g. +4 quality Intelligence from Slavelord’s)
    Augments as desired
    Filigrees: OIP: Constitution, OIP: Intelligence, OIP:Spellpower, OIP:PRR,OIP:Will, FW:Intelligence, FW:PRR, FW:Cold Spellpower.

    Basically, it's an Illusionist/Enchanter who uses Electric damage. You’ve got competitive DC to land your control spells and you just a limited set of offensive spells (Eladar’s, etc.) to back up your Spellsword damage. Between Epic Defensive Fighting, Evasion, Incorporeality and Displacement, you’ve got a reasonably good ability to stick in melee against enemies that are likely to be stunned/held/whatever. Unlike a conventional Wizard, you can endlessly pour damage into the enemy at a fairly high rate. No, it’s not the rate a Tempest Ranger could, but it’s still a lot better than you’d be able to otherwise maintain. You can also blow up the entire room in a way the Ranger can't - with Energy Burst, Fan of Knives, Eldritch Tempest/Strike all on top of one another.
    Your basic build looks half baked. It's not quite a caster, not quite a melee, good at neither. Also gearing specifically for spellpower makes the melee pointless, especially with the new spells. Not to mention 50mrr cap with no evasion = instagib.

    Now, if the spellsword imbues do not proc on the offhand then that's that and I don't think any EK will ever be competitive with any thing in any way.. But if they do, TWF is superior without question.

  20. #20
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    Oct 2009
    Posts
    829

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    Your basic build looks half baked. It's not quite a caster, not quite a melee, good at neither.
    Color Spray persistent DC is ~90, which is the standard bar for high Reaper will saves. Add in temporary buffs and you'll get even higher. Spells like Eladar's have neither DC nor SR check. Persistent Electric spellpower is somewhere in the 800-ish range, which translates into ~2500 dps from standard magical melee damage. Add in the physical damage and 20% vulnerability, you're looking at the lower end of what is considered a viable melee dps build. And that's before we even start talking about things like consumables, helpless damage and Reaper trees/bonuses.

    On an endgame character, you'll break into the triple digits on Enchantment/Illusion DC. Which, coupled with the breadth of tools the Wizard has, you're effectively able to control/charm anything that can be controlled/charmed.

    Also note that this is a rough draft to show what's possible without much effort - how little you lose by going with Eldritch Knight for a pure caster. An optimized build would probably do better.

    Also gearing specifically for spellpower makes the melee pointless, especially with the new spells.
    It makes the melee less effective. However, we're still talking 220+ attacks/minute with a double-wide Sovereign vorpal weapon, 100-ish melee power and double stat contribution.

    Not to mention 50mrr cap with no evasion = instagib.
    It's 80 MRR cap with Evasion.

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