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Thread: Reaper LHoX

  1. #81
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Here is the completion time for LE with pretty well buffed dogs. Cry of battle three piece set, Augment summoning, Triple druid past lives, ship buff for charms/pets. With a bard for bard buffs and haste.

    Now was the 7 threads based off of 13 min runs for LE, or 5 min runs for R10?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfo View Post
    Moreover, without reaper difficulty nice reaper bonuses just unavailable, so...



    Sic!
    At least now we know their long term plan for dealing with reaper...

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamani View Post


    Here is the completion time for LE with pretty well buffed dogs. Cry of battle three piece set, Augment summoning, Triple druid past lives, ship buff for charms/pets. With a bard for bard buffs and haste.

    Now was the 7 threads based off of 13 min runs for LE, or 5 min runs for R10?
    Bump. I'd like to see the answer to this question.

  4. #84
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    Bump. I'd like to see the answer to this question.
    Just gonna point out too that R1 Leg tempest spine can be done in approx 9 min too(faster if ppl know what they are doing). But this requires taking shortcuts and skipping runes so not all groups can do this.
    Last edited by Yamani; 01-23-2019 at 10:05 PM.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    Bump. I'd like to see the answer to this question.
    Charms. In r10 the charms do all the work for you. That and the doggies hit a ton harder.

    R10 Hound is simply faster and easier. One of the reasons why Reaper is broken. but what else can you expect from quick and dirty auto-scaling?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaboom2112 View Post
    Charms. In r10 the charms do all the work for you. That and the doggies hit a ton harder.

    R10 Hound is simply faster and easier. One of the reasons why Reaper is broken. but what else can you expect from quick and dirty auto-scaling?
    That doesn't answer the question, though.

    They disabled Reaper due to the "ease" of Reaper completions with charms and scaling.

    They did NOT increase Threads to compensate for this.

    When they designed Thread drop rates, they used completion times that are no longer possible.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaboom2112 View Post
    Charms. In r10 the charms do all the work for you. That and the doggies hit a ton harder.

    R10 Hound is simply faster and easier. One of the reasons why Reaper is broken. but what else can you expect from quick and dirty auto-scaling?
    I believe the nature of the question was: is the current 7 thread drop rate based on this stars-aligned 13 minute LE clear time or not. If it was based on the r10 clear times the drop rate is due for adjustment since reaper is no longer available for the raid.
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
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  8. #88
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthrawl View Post
    That doesn't answer the question, though.

    They disabled Reaper due to the "ease" of Reaper completions with charms and scaling.

    They did NOT increase Threads to compensate for this.

    When they designed Thread drop rates, they used completion times that are no longer possible.
    From what I’ve gathered, they disabled reaper because it gave an inordinate amount of rxp/min. They decided that they didn’t like giving the players rewards for competent grouping and skilled teamwork. If charms were the actual issue, they would have a) changed the charm mechanic in reaper overall, or b) changed the charm mechanic in the specific raid. They did neither, and regular players get the short end of the stick.

    This raid gives no relevant loot, no threads, and no rxp. I have not seen an LFM up on Ghallanda to run this raid since 2018, and I really don’t see why anyone would ever bother stepping into it. Kind of ironic considering that this raid was nerfed to oblivion to prevent certain raids from being run over others, and in the process became the raid that no one runs.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    From what I’ve gathered, they disabled reaper because it gave an inordinate amount of rxp/min. They decided that they didn’t like giving the players rewards for competent grouping and skilled teamwork. If charms were the actual issue, they would have a) changed the charm mechanic in reaper overall, or b) changed the charm mechanic in the specific raid. They did neither, and regular players get the short end of the stick.

    This raid gives no relevant loot, no threads, and no rxp. I have not seen an LFM up on Ghallanda to run this raid since 2018, and I really don’t see why anyone would ever bother stepping into it. Kind of ironic considering that this raid was nerfed to oblivion to prevent certain raids from being run over others, and in the process became the raid that no one runs.
    The RXP was only inordinate for the groups that managed to do the 5 minute R10s, mostly coordinated guild runs, and not including retries obviously.

    LHoX shares loot with LTS except for the wraps/runearm, but irrelevant regardless.

    A hard run is still 6 threads and not all that difficult to run, I've had a handful on Thelanis.
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
    Thelanis - Striving to be your Swiss Army Knife for DPS, traps and tanking
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    From what I’ve gathered, they disabled reaper because it gave an inordinate amount of rxp/min.
    Correction - they disabled reaper because they THOUGHT (mistakenly) it gave an inordinate amount of rxp/min even though none of them understood what level of gearing, PLs, RAPs, and player skill are actually required to complete it.

    They also fail to realize that the core 4-6 players with the skill, builds, PLs, gear, etc. can just as easily go make comparable if not better RXP/minute zerging the daily RXP non-raid missions on R8+ without worrying about the 3-day raid timer.
    Last edited by LT218; 01-24-2019 at 11:09 AM.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by askrj1 View Post
    The RXP was only inordinate for the groups that managed to do the 5 minute R10s, mostly coordinated guild runs, and not including retries obviously.


    Regardless, it was removed from live because of 2-3 static groups doing runs on the assumption that every run was flawless, and that it was a sure fire thing. As usual, rather than fixing the actual issue that they seem to be aware of: charms can do all the work for you, the devs went with an alternate route of just removing the difficulty entirely.

    When reaper was still enabled groups would:

    -Charm flensers to kill the mind flayers
    -Grab stones and charm puppies, killing Xzzyzz in 1 charm cycle.

    The devs could have made the flensers immune to charm, thereby requiring groups to dps the flayers down. We did it once when our caster died, and trust me, they have a lot of HP and on R10 it isn't easy. The raid would have still been completable, but you would have required a full, balanced raid group to complete. Instead, the devs seem to be fine with removing content at endgame, despite the year long stagnation of content at cap. The last update that had more than 1 end game quest was the House J Rage chain from early spring of last year.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT218 View Post
    Correction - they disabled reaper because they THOUGHT (mistakenly) it gave an inordinate amount of rxp/min even though none of them understood what level of gearing, PLs, RAPs, and player skill are actually required to complete it.

    They also fail to realize that the core 4-6 players with the skill, builds, PLs, gear, etc. can just as easily go make comparable if not better RXP/minute zerging the daily RXP non-raid missions on R8+ without worrying about the 3-day raid timer.
    Yes. And those quests generally not only give comparable rxp/min, but they also give BiS gear, Reaper Helm chance, filigrees, and reaper/mythic chance of BiS gear. At this point, hound gives none of that.

  13. #93
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zites View Post
    I have the fix for you takeoff all your gear reset your reaper points to zero don't play meta builds so no more monk no more uber completionest cc/instakill casters no more assassin's no more tempest. If that don't work for you just try rolling a brand new character and I mean the whole guild not just one or two people and see how easy R10 is. If all else fails we can all go outside and play ha ha ha Ha ha ha.....
    Telling a market audience chucked full of min maxers and system mastery folks to limit their own progression might just be the worst marketing advice ever given, and a great reason to play something else which does balance against their own progression rather than expect the players to do it by banking their items rather than using them.

  14. #94
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post


    Regardless, it was removed from live because of 2-3 static groups doing runs on the assumption that every run was flawless, and that it was a sure fire thing. As usual, rather than fixing the actual issue that they seem to be aware of: charms can do all the work for you, the devs went with an alternate route of just removing the difficulty entirely.

    When reaper was still enabled groups would:

    -Charm flensers to kill the mind flayers
    -Grab stones and charm puppies, killing Xzzyzz in 1 charm cycle.

    The devs could have made the flensers immune to charm, thereby requiring groups to dps the flayers down. We did it once when our caster died, and trust me, they have a lot of HP and on R10 it isn't easy. The raid would have still been completable, but you would have required a full, balanced raid group to complete. Instead, the devs seem to be fine with removing content at endgame, despite the year long stagnation of content at cap. The last update that had more than 1 end game quest was the House J Rage chain from early spring of last year.
    My crew is going with: XP potions sell better than raid timer bypass.

    People are speculating on the best **game system** solution, when what gets implemented is the best revenue generation solution.

  15. #95
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    My crew is going with: XP potions sell better than raid timer bypass.

    People are speculating on the best **game system** solution, when what gets implemented is the best revenue generation solution.
    Sadly this is pretty accurate. Rather than reward the players for skill, and tailor quality raids to challenge and reward players, they would rather just delete difficulties if it became too simple to farm.

    SSG really does know how to foster a sense of pride and accomplishment in the game.

    Pride in completing something. Accomplishment when it comes full circle and is deleted.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    My crew is going with: XP potions sell better than raid timer bypass.

    People are speculating on the best **game system** solution, when what gets implemented is the best revenue generation solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Sadly this is pretty accurate. Rather than reward the players for skill, and tailor quality raids to challenge and reward players, they would rather just delete difficulties if it became too simple to farm.

    SSG really does know how to foster a sense of pride and accomplishment in the game.

    Pride in completing something. Accomplishment when it comes full circle and is deleted.
    It's not the first time they've taken the easy switch rather than making proper fixes, whether or not it ties to store sales. Essentially it feels like they just make these decisions off the top of their heads based on not having the time or manpower to tackle it in reasonable time frame.

    It's not always bad depending the the nature and level of the bug/exploit (some temporary quest closures for example), but in this case it's relatively major to recent changes (cap/raid content essentially) and would probably have been less damaging leaving it as status quo.

    As usual, it attributes to the devs not actually playing the game they're making.
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
    Thelanis - Striving to be your Swiss Army Knife for DPS, traps and tanking
    Eushully/Centered LS Tempest | Nantekottai/FvS | Ponoka - Sub || Hamsterwheel paused

  17. #97
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    Default greedy grind

    People are greedy, and we have grind mechanism. Then when a group find a way to shorter the grind they use it. We use safe place, cool spell, inv way etc. all the tricks to farm reap xp, chest, tof etc.
    When i find a good trick (or someone teach me) i use it, sometimes more sometimes less. If people run a r10 quest often with a trick, it's not only for the pleasure to say i'm a boss, it's beacause they are greedy and want the ice cream quicker. people say beh it's not shorter , sometimes yes sometimes not, but they hope the first time will be the good. As when we buy a lottery ticket, we hope.
    When i use a safe place to finish a r10 quest i don't feel great, i feel greedy. When i see a vidéo where monk fight his way to complete a r10 quest i find him great.
    As a caster, a can't finish highter skulls, without cc spells or safe place. i know the dev nerf time to time rules, quests, spells, classes etc. is it better after not sure. Is it worse not sure too.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by deredriel View Post
    People are greedy, and we have grind mechanism. Then when a group find a way to shorter the grind they use it. We use safe place, cool spell, inv way etc. all the tricks to farm reap xp, chest, tof etc.
    When i find a good trick (or someone teach me) i use it, sometimes more sometimes less. If people run a r10 quest often with a trick, it's not only for the pleasure to say i'm a boss, it's beacause they are greedy and want the ice cream quicker. people say beh it's not shorter , sometimes yes sometimes not, but they hope the first time will be the good. As when we buy a lottery ticket, we hope.
    When i use a safe place to finish a r10 quest i don't feel great, i feel greedy. When i see a vidéo where monk fight his way to complete a r10 quest i find him great.
    As a caster, a can't finish highter skulls, without cc spells or safe place. i know the dev nerf time to time rules, quests, spells, classes etc. is it better after not sure. Is it worse not sure too.
    Well, this said monk probably also farmed amber for quick RXP. Even if he didn't, a lot of people do :P
    Even during the "racial grind" people often use cheesy builds for quick grind.

    After all, this game is all about grinding power nowadays. I wouldn't call it greedy, it's just how it is imo xD

  19. #99
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deredriel View Post
    People are greedy, and we have grind mechanism. Then when a group find a way to shorter the grind they use it. We use safe place, cool spell, inv way etc. all the tricks to farm reap xp, chest, tof etc.
    When i find a good trick (or someone teach me) i use it, sometimes more sometimes less. If people run a r10 quest often with a trick, it's not only for the pleasure to say i'm a boss, it's beacause they are greedy and want the ice cream quicker. people say beh it's not shorter , sometimes yes sometimes not, but they hope the first time will be the good. As when we buy a lottery ticket, we hope.
    When i use a safe place to finish a r10 quest i don't feel great, i feel greedy. When i see a vidéo where monk fight his way to complete a r10 quest i find him great.
    As a caster, a can't finish highter skulls, without cc spells or safe place. i know the dev nerf time to time rules, quests, spells, classes etc. is it better after not sure. Is it worse not sure too.
    Don't really know why this is here. When we were running R10 LHoX we did it with a full raid group, and used the method required in the raid to complete it without any safe spots.

    On a side note, I heard that the thread count was increased to 10, which is laughable, because even after being shown evidence that the raid takes as long as DoJ/FoTP/LTS they decide that they can't even up the threads to be competitive with those raids. Shows a real lack of understanding.

    FWIW; TotDW/LHoX are dead raids rn. I just joined an EE LHoX run and it fell apart after about 10 mins because nobody would join it. It was the first pug LFM of the raid I had seen this year. ToDW I see maybe once every 2-3 weeks or so. RSO also suffers, but I think that's a general dislike of the raid over anything else.

    People would rather run FoTP and take a chance at receiving nothing over running ToDW/LHoX. *quote about something-something devs don't want raids to be preferred over others* I feel would be appropriate.

    Give LHoX reaper back. It was a dumb reason to remove it, and its still dumb.

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