Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30
  1. #1
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    974

    Default Question About Monster PRR/MRR/MP

    Suffering, the Half of Whole has a property that has it reduce monster PRR/MRR by 10
    Assassin enhancement ability Weakening Strikes has an ability that reduces monster MP by (10 + Rogue Level/2)

    My question that I have been asking around to people that know a lot more about numbers than me recently, is that since PRR/MRR/MP is generally a newer form of damage mitigation/increase (Update 23 Epic Orchard), how many monsters actually have PRR/MRR/MP?

    So far the only answer I've received was from a friend that informed me that the PRR/MRR reduction only works on the 4 rednamed bosses in Shroud and nowhere else. Aside from the LShroud bosses and the threads I've seen about monsters with PRR seems to be limited to LShroud and LShroud flag. I cannot find anything about monster MP.

    Can a dev explain more about how many mobs/bosses these abilities affect?

  2. #2
    DDO QA Team Cocomajobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Suffering, the Half of Whole has a property that has it reduce monster PRR/MRR by 10
    Assassin enhancement ability Weakening Strikes has an ability that reduces monster MP by (10 + Rogue Level/2)

    My question that I have been asking around to people that know a lot more about numbers than me recently, is that since PRR/MRR/MP is generally a newer form of damage mitigation/increase (Update 23 Epic Orchard), how many monsters actually have PRR/MRR/MP?

    So far the only answer I've received was from a friend that informed me that the PRR/MRR reduction only works on the 4 rednamed bosses in Shroud and nowhere else. Aside from the LShroud bosses and the threads I've seen about monsters with PRR seems to be limited to LShroud and LShroud flag. I cannot find anything about monster MP.

    Can a dev explain more about how many mobs/bosses these abilities affect?
    All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.

    So! Even though a large portion of monsters do not innately have positive values of those stats, effects that debuff still help to defeat them.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  3. #3
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.

    So! Even though a large portion of monsters do not innately have positive values of those stats, effects that debuff still help to defeat them.
    Good to know, thanks!

  4. #4
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives.
    Sorry to do a follow up Q, but how does the negative curve apply? I'm assuming it would be a backwards PRR/MP scale but just want to confirm.

    IE a monster that has 10 PRR would have 9.09% dmg reduction. If it was -10 PRR would they have a 9.09% vulnerability?

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    109

    Default

    damage done = 100/(100+prr) * original_damage

    So I'd guess that -10prr would result in doing 1.1111111* original damage

    I assume that vunerability is additive to the original damage scaling. ie. 20% vulnerability = 1.2* original damage. Thus, -10 prr is 11.11111% vulnerable.
    Last edited by Clerize; 11-30-2018 at 01:42 PM.

  6. #6
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5,865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clerize View Post
    damage done = 100/(100+prr) * original_damage

    So I'd guess that -10prr would result in doing 1.1111111* original damage

    I assume that vunerability is additive to the original damage scaling. ie. 20% vulnerability = 1.2* original damage. Thus, -10 prr is 11.11111% vulnerable.
    Just need to theory craft a build that removes 100 PRR.
    It's much easier to demonize those providing feedback (whining, childish, bringing the forums down, etc) or minimize their voice (small number, vocal, etc) than to accept the fact that the agro/stealth system just missed the mark.
    A good company learns to listen to their customers.

  7. #7
    Barbarbarian
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.

    So! Even though a large portion of monsters do not innately have positive values of those stats, effects that debuff still help to defeat them.
    On live, I'm not seeing my front number increase when using an ooze weapon
    You can run level cap quests for epic xp, but you can't run non-level cap quests for RXP when you're capped.
    r10 @ 30 stuff, sorc, monk,Ghallanda

  8. #8
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    Just need to theory craft a build that removes 100 PRR.
    world crash...

  9. #9
    Community Member John3000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.

    So! Even though a large portion of monsters do not innately have positive values of those stats, effects that debuff still help to defeat them.
    Wow... didn't know negative PRR/MRR was possible, nor MP/RP. Is there a limit to how far the negative values can go ?


    I guess the ddo wiki needs updating :
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating

  10. #10
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John3000 View Post
    Wow... didn't know negative PRR/MRR was possible, nor MP/RP. Is there a limit to how far the negative values can go ?


    I guess the ddo wiki needs updating :
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating
    FWIW I don't think the devs deal with the wiki

  11. #11
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. .
    How certain are you on this? Misinformation on this subject would not be well received, at least on my end.

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    469

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.
    The second statement is factually incorrect. Going down to negative 10 PRR from a base of 0 is actually a larger damage difference than going up to positive 10 PRR. The reason for this is that the formula as is currently known has an asymptote at -100PRR.

    Here's a graph showing the damage that a target will take if the initial incoming damage is consistently 10damage with 0PRR. This graph has X values from -120PRR to 100PRR and the Y axis shows the damage the mob would take. As the target approaches -100PRR the damage spikes significantly; while any PRR value including and below -100 return results that would be uninterpretable.

    Afunkymunky/Drkivorkian, Helter Skelter on Ghallanda

    Epic Ring of Spell Storing--https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...+spell+storing

  13. #13
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,139

    Default

    I need to get a -101 PRR penalty so enemy attacks heal me

  14. #14
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I need to get a -101 PRR penalty so enemy attacks heal me

    Isn't that where PM in high skull reaper is headed? haha

  15. #15
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    All of the properties listed are able to go into the negatives. Going from 0 to -10 PRR provides the same difference in damage against the target as going from 10 PRR to 0 PRR. The same is true of MRR and Melee Power/Ranged Power.
    Just tested with a guildy.

    Conditions were:
    SWF rogue first using Pain, and then using Suffering
    Guildy provided 20% vulnerability with another Pain for the Suffering test
    5 mins of looking for highest front number
    My Pain had a +2 MP because of Mythic versus blank

    Results:

    Vulnerability only (113 MP) highest front number was 369
    Vulnerability & -10 PRR (111 MP) highest front number was 364

    Based on the fact that it is supposed to go negative per your statement, can you confirm that this is non WAI?

  16. #16
    Community Member FuryFlash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    705

    Default

    I would also like to know if these values can actually go negative on live right now.

  17. #17
    DDO QA Team Cocomajobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,243

    Default

    Interesting. I just retested this and, while debuff effects are reducing PRR and MRR into the negatives, that does not appear to be increasing damage dealt to said creatures. The annoying bit is that way back in 2015 when testing Warlock I specifically remember negative PRR and MRR working as I had described earlier in the thread. Gross.

    Writing a bug report currently.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  18. #18
    Barbarbarian
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Interesting. I just retested this and, while debuff effects are reducing PRR and MRR into the negatives, that does not appear to be increasing damage dealt to said creatures. The annoying bit is that way back in 2015 when testing Warlock I specifically remember negative PRR and MRR working as I had described earlier in the thread. Gross.

    Writing a bug report currently.
    Cheers dude. Thank you for your attentiveness. When and whatever a solution ends up being, it will be good.
    You can run level cap quests for epic xp, but you can't run non-level cap quests for RXP when you're capped.
    r10 @ 30 stuff, sorc, monk,Ghallanda

  19. #19
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    469

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Interesting. I just retested this and, while debuff effects are reducing PRR and MRR into the negatives, that does not appear to be increasing damage dealt to said creatures. The annoying bit is that way back in 2015 when testing Warlock I specifically remember negative PRR and MRR working as I had described earlier in the thread. Gross.

    Writing a bug report currently.
    My guess is that the equation for PRR/MRR is only used for positive values of PRR/MRR since the equation has drastically different properties for values lower than zero.
    Afunkymunky/Drkivorkian, Helter Skelter on Ghallanda

    Epic Ring of Spell Storing--https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...+spell+storing

  20. #20
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    473

    Default

    It does work out if you compute the effect of negative PRR by computing it like positive values and only apply the percentage computed as negative afterwards. As the PRR formula cannot reach 100% (yes, it could go below the minimal floating point value... sure, we'll see such numbers...) the reduction can't reach 100% either.

    So instead of

    dmg * 1 / (100 - PRR)

    you do

    dmg * (1 - 1/(100 + PRR))

    Obviously only for negative values of PRR which create the "- PRR" above.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload