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  1. #1
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default U41 Preview 2: Arcane DPS Spells Pass

    Spells
    • New Wizard and Sorcerer spells are now available at level 1: Fire Bolt, Freezing Bolt, Acid Bolt, and Electric Bolt. Each fires a single-target bolt that does 1d6+2 damage of the appropriate element per Caster Level, to a maximum Caster Level of 10. These new spells cost 2 spell points each at their base, and have a 4.5 second cooldown (3.5 seconds for Sorcerers) shared among all four spells.
    • New Wizard and Sorcerer spells are now available at level 9:
      • Iceberg: Single Target Evocation Spell that does 1d6+27 per Caster Level damage, Reflex save for half damage. Maximum Caster Level 20. Costs 40 spell points. (Cooldown: 12 sec (Wiz), 9 sec (Sor))
      • Acid Well: Acid bursts forth from the ground in an area of effect. This area Conjuration spell does 1d6+18 damage per Caster Level, Reflex saving throw for half damage. Maximum Caster Level of 20. Costs 40 spell points.(Cooldown: 12 sec (Wiz), 9 sec (Sor))
      • Thunderstroke: A large lightning bolt strikes a single target. This single-target Evocation Spell does 1d6+27 points of damage per Caster Level, with a Reflex saving throw for half damage. Maximum Caster Level of 20. Costs 40 spell points. (Cooldown: 12 sec (Wiz), 9 sec (Sor))

    • The following spells have been upgraded:
      • Level 1:
        • Acid Spray is now 1d6+1 damage per Caster level.
        • Burning Hands is now 1d6+1 damage per Caster level.
        • Shocking Grasp is now 1d6+1 damage per Caster level.

      • Level 2:
        • Scorch is now 1d6+2 damage per Caster Level.
        • Snowball Swarm is now 1d6+2 damage per Caster Level.

      • Level 3:
        • Acid Blast is now 1d6+3 damage per Caster Level.
        • Fireball is now 1d6+3 damage per Caster Level.
        • Lightning Bolt is now 1d6+3 damage per Caster Level.

      • Level 4:
        • Fire Trap is now 1d6+4 damage per Caster Level.
        • Negative Energy Burst is now 1d6+4 damage per Caster Level.

      • Level 5:
        • Ball Lightning is now 1d6+5 damage per Caster Level.
        • Cone of Cold is now 1d6+5 damage per Caster Level.

      • Level 6:
        • Chain Lightning is now 1d6+6 damage per Caster Level.
        • Otiluke's Freezing Sphere is now 1d6+6 damage per Caster Level.
        • Necrotic Ray is now 1d6+12 damage per Caster Level.

      • Level 7:
        • Delayed Blast Fireball is now 1d6+7 damage per Caster Level.

      • Level 8:
        • Polar Ray is now 1d6+8 damage per Caster Level.

      • Level 9:
        • Meteor Swarm now deals 1d3+1 Fire damage per Caster Level and 1d2+1 Bludgeoning damage per Caster Level on each meteor. It has a maximum Caster Level of 20.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


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  2. #2
    Barbarbarian Sam-u-r-eye's Avatar
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    rip polar ray and cooldowns. Will transfer tomorrow and play around with it though ^^
    Without new players DDO will go the way of the dodo.
    r10 @ 30 stuff, Sorc Build Guide, Ghallanda

  3. #3
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Level 6 Necrotic ray does more dmg and a neg level vs a level 8 polar ray spell??

    Lol ... each have their pros and cons ... but seriously? That's like nerfing warlocks burst to 3d6 from 10d6 and having arcanes do 10d6 at earlier level ... oh wait.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachomammashouse View Post
    The devs got bamboozled by the forum warriors.

  4. #4
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    Why change Polar Ray?

    It makes sense to have single target spells doing more damage then AOE spells. Necrotic Ray now being better and cheaper then polar ray is inconsistent.

    According to the wiki you'll have Necrotic Ray on a 2second cooldown and 10 sp cost vs Polar Ray at a 3.5s cd and 20sp cost.

    After testing Necrotic Ray hits just as hard, and costs half the sp.
    Last edited by Synthetic; 11-28-2018 at 12:33 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Couple of questions:

    1) Has the max caster level been changed for any of these spells?
    2) whats the max caster level on negitive energy burst?


    Coments:
    1) I think you should take a look at the lvl 5 dots, they are really designed to help casters deal with red named bosses which is where caster’s realy struggle.
    2) This gives casters a large boost in damage for heroic questing, a HUGE boost in damange for late heroic questing and early epic questing, a small boost in damage for late game epic questing, and almost no change for reaper and raid questing. Is this your desired outcome?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorrd View Post
    Level 6 Necrotic ray does more dmg and a neg level vs a level 8 polar ray spell??
    Necrotic Ray has a saving throw for half damage.

    Polar Ray has no saving throw.

    In the last Lamannia build, it became evident that Polar Ray was absolutely the best Arcane DPS spell between its high damage and lack of saving throw, so we rebalanced it.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To be very clear, the change to IPS does not specifically have to do with Inquisitive overperforming. It is the result of evaluating the way that Ranged Weapon Users interact with the overall build meta and (especially) melees.

  7. #7
    Barbarbarian Sam-u-r-eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Necrotic Ray has a saving throw for half damage.

    Polar Ray has no saving throw.

    In the last Lamannia build, it became evident that Polar Ray was absolutely the best Arcane DPS spell between its high damage and lack of saving throw, so we rebalanced it.
    If a caster is failing their saving throws then they're in trouble as a nuker.
    One idea is a saving throw added to polar ray (reflex?) and then return the bonus damage, or at least a 1/3 of it @ 1d6 + 12

    Currently nukers are in a very rough spot for saving throws and they can be uniformly rewarded for this investment they're gonna have to make.
    Without new players DDO will go the way of the dodo.
    r10 @ 30 stuff, Sorc Build Guide, Ghallanda

  8. #8
    Barbarbarian Sam-u-r-eye's Avatar
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    Adding the spells at level 9 really favors wizards in my opinion since they can cycle through the high damage spells.
    For a Sorc, you don't have the spell slots for more than 2 since mass hold is required.
    Would you consider bringing the cooldowns down to 6s? This would help sorcs since the spell would be more ubiquitous and wouldn't hinder wizard spam.
    Meteor swarm is really good at 4.5s compared to Acid Well
    Without new players DDO will go the way of the dodo.
    r10 @ 30 stuff, Sorc Build Guide, Ghallanda

  9. #9
    Barbarbarian Sam-u-r-eye's Avatar
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    On a perfect ice savant I had 20k dps in the previous Lammania update (single target) if the target fails all its saves.
    On a perfect ice savant I now have 13k dps.
    The numbers on live are about 7k dps.

    This is with about 1150 spellpower
    all available crit (about 87%)
    and 65 crit damage
    all available MCL bonuses (Staff, dragonborn, Magister, and Draconic)

    The spell rotation changes depending on the lamma iteration.
    reference link Sorry the math is a bit of a mess.

    Empirical testing of an endgame melee puts a perfect THF at about 15k dps.
    A TWF rogue is about 20k dps if perfectly made.
    A tempest is 18k dps.

    Where should a caster sit in all this ranking? Thanks for all your work Steel.
    Last edited by Sam-u-r-eye; 11-27-2018 at 09:06 PM.
    Without new players DDO will go the way of the dodo.
    r10 @ 30 stuff, Sorc Build Guide, Ghallanda

  10. #10
    Community Member Spawawa's Avatar
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    I agree that preview 1 changes were on the op side, but after about 3 hours of testing I came slightly under sam's numbers (12k dps) and when using wellspring + mabar robe the burst dps was about 19k. That was on a build that focused on DPS only. The DCs (even evocation was shaky) were not good enough for high end content. While these numbers sound decent I have to point out that casters have a blue bar and this dps is not viable at all times or you will run out of sp after a minute or so of casting.

    I would like to see the single target level 9 spells' cooldown reduced slightly to 6-7 second for sorcerers to make sp usage more efficient while also slightly bumping dps. As for polar ray, would it be a fair trade to give it a DC like other spells and boost the damage? currently it barely does more damage than cone of cold and otiluke but those spells are AoE. If the team felt like 1d6+16 was too much i think something like 1d6+14 + a save would be perfect. That way it's stronger than necrotic ray (as it should be imo) and your concern about the lack of a save is resolved.
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  11. #11
    Staggering LightBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Necrotic Ray has a saving throw for half damage.

    Polar Ray has no saving throw.

    In the last Lamannia build, it became evident that Polar Ray was absolutely the best Arcane DPS spell between its high damage and lack of saving throw, so we rebalanced it.
    It always was! The no saving trow meant you could deep freeze that chicken hiding in the vale in seconds.
    Back when that chicken was still a thing.

  12. #12
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye View Post
    On a perfect ice savant I had 20k dps in the previous Lammania update (single target) if the target fails all its saves.
    On a perfect ice savant I now have 13k dps.
    The numbers on live are about 7k dps.

    This is with about 1150 spellpower
    all available crit (about 87%)
    and 65 crit damage
    all available MCL bonuses (Staff, dragonborn, Magister, and Draconic)

    The spell rotation changes depending on the lamma iteration.
    reference link Sorry the math is a bit of a mess.

    Empirical testing of an endgame melee puts a perfect THF at about 15k dps.
    A TWF rogue is about 20k dps if perfectly made.
    A tempest is 18k dps.

    Where should a caster sit in all this ranking? Thanks for all your work Steel.
    I just have to trust in your numbers and this sounds like it is at least noticeably better than on life.
    But if your dps numbers are correct, my opinion is that the dps is still too low if you consider that your TWF rogue is about 20k dps if perfectly made.
    Notice that a caster have the Spell Points limitation and with this additional limitation a TWF rogue doesn't have he should do at least similar if not more damage.
    If you don't want a caster to have more dps than a weapon user then you should lessen the restriction from spell points in my opinion.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  13. #13
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    I just have to trust in your numbers and this sounds like it is at least noticeably better than on life.
    But if your dps numbers are correct, my opinion is that the dps is still too low if you consider that your TWF rogue is about 20k dps if perfectly made.
    Notice that a caster have the Spell Points limitation and with this additional limitation a TWF rogue doesn't have he should do at least similar if not more damage.
    If you don't want a caster to have more dps than a weapon user then you should lessen the restriction from spell points in my opinion.
    Exactly ... we're back to the heart of the problem the devs keep pushing aside. Spell points. Get rid of them. You can't compare a nuker that can't nuke to a ranged or melee that have unlimited uses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachomammashouse View Post
    The devs got bamboozled by the forum warriors.

  14. #14
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    And to repeat it here again, in my opinion, the whole balance is in my opinion not sufficient.

    It would make much more sense if the damage dices of damaging spells scale in general with your CHARACTER level and not caster!
    The reason for this is simple, in DDO multiclassing is one of the best features the game has.
    But multiclassing only works well if the abilities scale with your character level, otherwise you end up with basically the same power a level 7 character has at level 20-30 and this makes just no sense.
    A level 20 wizard also learned to e.g. use Fireball at level 5 and then he gets better with his caster levels (currently).
    But why should get a multiclass character with only 5 wizard level not better with more character levels?
    The reason why he should get better is obvious, the monsters get more Hit Points and therefore he needs more damage to contract that but where is the reason why he doesn't get better?

    And also the same for the maximum caster level most spell now have, why should they not increase in power?
    Notice this is not about absolute power, maybe the spells should give less damage dice when they scale with the character level from 1-30 but that this is need is for me just logically in a game that fully supports multiclassing!
    And also here the reason why the damage should increase also past level 20 is simple, the monsters hp also increase past level 20 but where is the reason why the spell damage currently doesn't increase due to the odd hard caps, sometimes even at caster level 5?

    And if all spells scale with your character level you don't need additional effects that raise the spell level cap which makes the whole thing easier and simpler to understand.
    I don't want a DDO that is soo simple but currently, DDO could really use some simplification because things got out of control in my opinion.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  15. #15
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorrd View Post
    Exactly ... we're back to the heart of the problem the devs keep pushing aside. Spell points. Get rid of them. You can't compare a nuker that can't nuke to a ranged or melee that have unlimited uses.
    There is not only the option to remove spell points completely it is also possible to increase the dps of casters to justify a spell points limitation.
    Or at least lower the spell points cost or introduce some kind of real spell points regeneration effect in DDO.

    You can also replace the spell points system with another system that is maybe closer to the original pen and paper (of course more uses of spells/day than only one time or so)

    If nothing significantly changes, the main contradiction remains also past U41.
    You cannot give casters in general fewer dps than weapon users AND an additional limitation with a spell points system, this is just not logically.

    And that Crowd Control and Instant death spells are currently very strong, if not too strong, can not be an excuse for this misery.
    If this is the case it maybe needs to adjust this spells if they are too strong.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  16. #16
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorrd View Post
    Exactly ... we're back to the heart of the problem the devs keep pushing aside. Spell points. Get rid of them.

    Spell points are not the problem, it's part of the bigger picture yes, but not to the point of what you and others have suggested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    If you die in a trap, it sort of is your fault. Unless it's my fault, then IT IS my fault


  17. #17
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    Since you guys obviously felt that the cooldowns for the new level 9 spells were on the low side in Preview 1, if reducing them to a middle point is not a preferred option would it be possible to have the damage increased instead? More damage above the point they're at won't increase their power much against anything short of bosses, since most stuff will get one-shot anyway, and DPS on single targets in LE/LR content is where damage casters are struggling anyway. A damage increase could keep the DPS at competitive levels there without really affecting much else, as well as making the spells feel more impactful when you use them.

  18. #18
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    Two commentS:


    1) Polar ray having no ST but having less high end DPs is a great option for instakill builds or other non-Evo DC builds. Giving those builds an option for red names and champs i a good thing IMO.

    2) I have to disagree with those saying 13k dps (assuming the numbers are accurate) desperately needs to be fixed. Casters have the advantage of range and other spells compared to pure DPS classes. Lets look at some play scenarios

    LN/LH - Spellpoints should not be an issue. DPS should not be an issue. Really any build is fine.
    LE - Spellpoints may be an issue for wizards, but Wizards also can build for instakills and have great CC options. Sorcs get more spellpoints so nuking should be fine.
    Low/Mid Reaper - Pretty much same as LE, although spellpoint MIGHT become an issue. However, you have souls to keep your spellpoints up.
    High Reaper - You are going to be focused on CC and instakills. Nuker builds are not hugely viable. On the other hand, if ou do end up having to DPS you are at range which gives you a HUGE advantage over melee. (even with the HP changes recently).


    One note on this- I am not up to speed on where ranged DPS is right now, so there may be an argument that ranged DPS vs casters is unbalanced. But that is really an artifact of ranged dps, not caster dps.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Spells
    • snip

    Question:

    do these changes also impact the cleric domain SLA's? I would assume they do, but I am curious.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sproutecus View Post
    Question:

    do these changes also impact the cleric domain SLA's? I would assume they do, but I am curious.
    yes

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