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  1. #21
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffey View Post
    Combat Expertise Stance:... you suffer -5 to your attack rolls. This is not a good idea at all as it will severely penalise your offence ability to land an attack...
    Actually, no, it won't.

    DDO is not based on a d20 combat system. That is, a "-5 penalty" is not a -5 penalty to a d20 roll (which would be about -25% to hit!). It's a far more convoluted formula, and ends up being ~about~ a -1 to hit, and then ONLY if you do not have a well-designed build (i.e. your total "to hit" bonuses are shaky to start with).

    Most well-designed (and geared) characters have more than enough Total Attack Bonus that they'll never feel that -5, and still only miss on a natural 1.

  2. #22
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    Ok so Combat Expertise is not the same as weapon proficiency penalty then. Good to know. Thank you C-Dog

    Edit: Another thing to keep in mind is you cant run it at the same time with Precision or Power Attack.
    Last edited by Coffey; 11-28-2018 at 06:02 PM.

  3. #23
    Community Member Ballrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    I'm confused why you're quoting me - I don't see how your comment relates to mine. Stalwart Defender has nothing to do w/ whether or not you wear Heavy Armor. You could be naked and still get the SD benefits (strange, but true).
    Sorry.
    Just greater stalwart defense need heavy/med armor or shield. My bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    ...Raiding is pointless because gear will eventually be replaced by better gear. Past lives are forever and thus are the only character improvement that is worth the trouble of acquiring...
    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    ...99 million combinations of characters and only 2 grouping options...

  4. #24
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Ah - easy mistake to make, made many similar myself. Carry on.

  5. #25
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    I have made a lot of mistakes and i still enjoy posting about the game as much as i like to procrastinate playing it haha!

    There are so many GD nuances to learn and ambiguous or missing information making it difficult to tie it altogether.

    And im not even going to correct C-Dog's typo in the description about taking stalwart stance. :P

  6. #26
    Community Member ElrondElfKing's Avatar
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    I'm still having trouble with dodge cap. I'm in heavy armor and my dex bonus is 2. Does this mean that the max dodge I can have is 2%? So then my Dodge and Mobility feats are totally wasted? Is that what you're all saying?

    Also, I have the Reed in the Wind enhancement, but the mechanic won't let me use it. Is this also because of the dodge cap?

    So, in heavy armor, I should basically avoid all forms of dodge (unless it is something that increases my dodge cap)? Look for other forms of defense and forget about dodge?

  7. #27
    Community Member Revolted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElrondElfKing View Post
    I'm still having trouble with dodge cap. I'm in heavy armor and my dex bonus is 2. Does this mean that the max dodge I can have is 2%? So then my Dodge and Mobility feats are totally wasted? Is that what you're all saying?

    Also, I have the Reed in the Wind enhancement, but the mechanic won't let me use it. Is this also because of the dodge cap?

    So, in heavy armor, I should basically avoid all forms of dodge (unless it is something that increases my dodge cap)? Look for other forms of defense and forget about dodge?
    Mobility increases your MDB, which increase your dodge. Anything that affects MDB affects dodge. You can increase it, as said, with mobility, with Stalwart enhancements "Stalwart Defensive Mastery", to a total of +5 dodge cap. Active Fighter PL, can give you +1 and there's a lot of racial enhancements and other enhancements that can improve this. Even Heavy Armors, not all have the same MDB. For example, Legendary Tempest Spine/HoX, have 6 MDB, Ravenloft Heavy Armors got 8 MDB.

    If you got only +2, that must mean you're using a Tower Shield, which has always a MDB 2, which can be increased by several specific enhancements.

  8. #28
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElrondElfKing View Post
    I'm still having trouble with dodge cap. I'm in heavy armor and my dex bonus is 2. Does this mean that the max dodge I can have is 2%? So then my Dodge and Mobility feats are totally wasted? Is that what you're all saying?

    Also, I have the Reed in the Wind enhancement, but the mechanic won't let me use it. Is this also because of the dodge cap?

    So, in heavy armor, I should basically avoid all forms of dodge (unless it is something that increases my dodge cap)? Look for other forms of defense and forget about dodge?
    No, your Dex Bonus is the amount of AC you are (potentially) gaining from your Dexterity.

    To see your Max Dodge, you can open your character sheet and mouse over the Armor Class section. A tooltip will appear; the middle section will tell you your current dodge chance, as well as your maximum dodge cap.

  9. #29
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElrondElfKing View Post
    I'm in heavy armor...
    Okay, stop right there. Which heavy armor?

    Each and every diff piece of armor has its own Dodge Cap. Even droploot armor of the same style can have diff Dodge Caps, depending which "Minimum Level" version you have.

    I talked about this on page 1 of this thread, w/ links...

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    ...(See https://ddowiki.com/page/Dodge_bonus...hance_mechanic - spec "The dodge chance is capped by the Maximum Dexterity Bonus of the armor worn ...")

    Then see these pages, look at "Max Dex Bonus" column:
    So, let's look at a couple pieces of "Heavy Armor" - we'll start w/ this one, out of Delera's...

    o https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Silverflame_Hauberk

    Max Dex Bonus = 3, so Dodge Cap is 3. (That might be improved w/ enhancements/augments/etc, but let's ignore that for this discussion.) If your Character's current Dodge bonus is 2%, you can still make use of +1% more Dodge to reach the cap of 3.

    Here's a diff Heavy Armor, droploot Magecraft Half-Plate (ML 16, 4th listed on that table).

    o https://ddowiki.com/page/Minimum_Lev...f_Plate_Armors

    It has a MDB of 5, so it has room for both Dodge (+3%) + Mobility (+2%) for 5% total.

    Some have MDB of 0, some are (barely) in double-digits - which is one reason why some are more popular than others.

  10. #30
    Community Member Revolted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by btolson View Post
    No, your Dex Bonus is the amount of AC you are (potentially) gaining from your Dexterity.
    You're wrong, MDB = Dodge in all cases except for when using outfits, that have no MDB and you still have a Dodge cap. And as I stated before, if you're using Tower Shield, it has a MDB = 2, other shields have no MDB restriction.
    Last edited by Revolted; 11-29-2018 at 08:58 AM.

  11. #31
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolted View Post
    You're wrong, MDB = Dodge in all cases except for when using outfits, that have no MDB and you still have a Dodge cap. And as I stated before, if you're using Tower Shield, it has a MDB = 2, other shields have no MDB restriction.
    He never said MDB, he said Dex Bonus. As in, (Dex -10)/2

  12. #32
    Community Member Revolted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by btolson View Post
    He never said MDB, he said Dex Bonus. As in, (Dex -10)/2
    True, must have misread the OP. Sorry about that

  13. #33
    Community Member ElrondElfKing's Avatar
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    Am I confusing max dodge with max dex bonus? In other word, with heavy armor ans a tower shield, and a dex bonus of 2, does this mean that my TOTAL dodge is limited to 2, or just that any bonuses are limited to 2? I'll have to look at my char sheet for my total dodge when I get home from work tonight.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElrondElfKing View Post
    Am I confusing max dodge with max dex bonus? In other word, with heavy armor ans a tower shield, and a dex bonus of 2, does this mean that my TOTAL dodge is limited to 2, or just that any bonuses are limited to 2? I'll have to look at my char sheet for my total dodge when I get home from work tonight.
    Yes, your TOTAL dodge is limited to 2. Unless you find an effect that increases the maximum dexterity bonus of your armor and of your tower shield.
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Maximum_dex..._Max_dex_bonus

  15. #35
    Community Member ElrondElfKing's Avatar
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    2 meaning 2%? Wow that's not much is it?

    So I need to get rid of dodge, mobility, and reed in the wind
    Last edited by ElrondElfKing; 11-29-2018 at 12:26 PM.

  16. #36
    Community Member ElrondElfKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffey View Post
    Combat Expertise Stance: While using Combat Expertise mode, you suffer -5 to your attack rolls. This is not a good idea at all as it will severely penalise your offence ability to land an attack.

    The 10% AC is for AC stacking for Aggro Tanking. So if you have 35 AC right now is it really worth it? Its not.

    There are better ways to increase defences.

    Edit: The best AC increase is in the Stalwart Defender tree tier 4 Reinforced Armor: The Armor Class bonus you gain from armor or docents is increased by [15/30/50]% which is 23 AP into the tree.
    If you can get your UMD to 28 there are Scrolls of Displacement for 50% concealment for those tough battles.

    If you are dying a lot it may be you need to change in your tactics and maybe lower the level of difficulty for your run.
    Yes, thank you. Stalwart Defender is the way to go. I see that now.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElrondElfKing View Post
    Yes, thank you. Stalwart Defender is the way to go. I see that now.
    Its not the only way but you wanted a balance of good damage and defence. The layered defence is the best approach so try to max out your dodge the best you can with the most versatile heavy armor you can find at level.

    You can find items with the dodge stat high enough to cover even the higher end of dodge cap without adding the feats to increase it unless you have some Godly armor that allows you to have higher dodge %.

    The other problem with trying to make a high defence high damage heroic character is that you are limited by AP and it seems you can never have enough of it. You want to have the best damage early too. Dead foes cant do damage to you, so you may want to add to your stalwart defender in increments. So like C-Dog said you can take a little bit of Stalwart Defender 6 AP and you have your +25 PRR MRR. The nice thing about fighter is you can add to that total through the heavy armor feats as you level. I usually skip heavy armor training and start with heavy armor combatant at level 6, heavy armor master at level 10 and finally heavy armor champion at 14. Wearing a shield will give you the shield multiplier which doubles your PRR MRR when hit by magic attacks that have reflex save. This is the the last line of defence mitigation and then HP count and hopefully good heals. Then there is DR which is phy damage mitigation, Energy Absorption/Resistance which stack by formulae and a source of damage mitigation for fire cold etc. Spell absorption for all magic attacks especially relevant for the nasty magics with no save or SR. So with all the damage mitigation, when you do get hit its for a lot less or nothing at all hopefully.

    Avoiding damage in the first place is key to keeping the overall damage very low especially when youre in dungeon alert and a lot of enemies. Dodge, AC, concealment (not stackable), incorporeality (not stackable) to avoid phy damage. And saving throws but i dont have time to finish this because the boss is cracking the whip got to go!

    Edit: Spell Resistance works against spells that have a Challenge Rating (CR) and essentially you have an equal or better spell resistance to CR for it to work or have a chance to work. 1d20+caster level+spell penetration bonuses but does not automatically fail on a roll of 1 or succeed on a roll of 20.

    I always have SR item for the occasion. If you are dwarf, DM of warding has this SLA ability in the racial tree, *which scales with level*. If spell resistance fails, your character relies on saving throws next.

    Saving Throws are defensive chances to avoid full damage or a magic or phy effect from a phy or mag attack which is based on Difficulty Check (DC) and allows a save. A roll of a 1 is always no save and 20 is always successful save. Successful save means you dont suffer some or all effects of the attack, or halves the damage.

    Now on top of saves there can be resistance types that are based on saving throws that add a layer of saving throws against specific magic attacks only enchantment, disease, poison etc.
    This thread: Spell saves vs other saves is a good easy read.

    I hope this isnt too long winded, but you seem a bit unsure about defence and you said wanted a build that has great damage and defence so i hope this helps you.

    There are a lot more qualified people here to explain defence to you than me and maybe some good links to older posts in the forums that cover it all.
    Last edited by Coffey; 11-29-2018 at 08:15 PM.

  18. #38
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElrondElfKing View Post
    So I need to get rid of dodge, mobility, and reed in the wind
    That's a good idea.


    As Coff' said, there are ways to increase the Dodge cap. Mobility adds +2% Dodge and (conveniently!) increases the cap by 2 - so that's all taken care of. (Not sure if that works for shields - might not.)

  19. #39
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    If you get all the dodge feats and Combat Expertise you can get Whirlwind Attack feat though

    Edit: If youre thinking about trying it out dont bother wasting your time as others have.

    Whirlwind Two handed Weapon damage
    Vistani Whirlwind attack unique animation but otherwise meh?
    Last edited by Coffey; 11-30-2018 at 04:04 PM.

  20. #40
    Community Member ElrondElfKing's Avatar
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    I've re-spec'ed my feats with Fred. Let's see how it pans out. I'm trying to use a balanced approach to the enhancements- a mixture of offensive and defensive enhancements. Here's how it looks now:

    L1 Stunning Blow, Power Attack, Shield Mastery
    L2 Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    L3 Cleave
    L4 Great Cleave
    L5 n/a
    L6 Heavy Armor Combatant, Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    L7 n/a
    L8 Two Handed Fighting
    L9 Improved Shield Mastery
    L10 Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    L11 n/a
    L12 Heavy Armor Master, Improved Two Handed Fighting
    L13 n/a
    L14 Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    L15 Greater Two Handed Fighting
    L16 Heavy Armor Champion
    L17 n/a
    L18 Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons, Tactical Mastery
    L19 n/a
    L20 Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

    Right now my dodge is 0, with a max of 4%

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