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  1. #1
    Community Member KING-TYPO's Avatar
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    Default racial past lives vs heroic class past lives Vs MTX

    Okay... SSG.. I just found out about the racial reincarnation system.. I have to voice my opinion on this.. I love ddo; I first signed up in 2010, and one of the things that drew me to your game was that DDO was never predatory or manipulative with your micro transactions or MTX. So since i saw this game was fair; I supported this game and the devs and gave you money.. A lot of money in fact. I have well over 8000 hours invest in this game. I have 2 issues i want to bring up to the community:

    1. Forcing people who want to do a heroic TR have to pick between either a CLASS past like or a RACIAL past life. both costs a heart of wood using either points or ingred, but lets be honest here they hope it will be more points spent on hearts of wood. while some can argue you can get the hearts for free, this is not the point i am making; just cause you can get the heart for free it does not change the fact this is a slightly egregious form of encouraging and manipulating the player base so we will buy more hearts of wood with points which cost CASH.. when the racial past lives could just be given to anyone that reaches lvl 20. granted i am very glad there are not ANY loot boxes in this game yet.

    2. *Edit*: thanks to MrTrolol this has been confirmed to now have a popup confirmation window upon clicking the re roll loot button.. I was hoping that when the reroll loot button was added to the chest loot menu long ago, i thought it was fine cause it was fairly off to the side and its not likely that a person will miss click and spend shards they never intended to spend. after the first update the button was moved to be directly under the loot all button making it FAR easier to miss click and spend shards on a reroll of the loot instead of letting the player deliberately choose to click the reroll button for shards cause after all SSG knows if you have astral shards you most likely spent money on the game and each click is one click closer to getting someone to buy points to buy a shard pack eventually. I can't help shake the feeling that SSG is going down the MTX manipulation path however slowly it might be moving.

    please SSG don't be egregious with your MTX. I love this game and i don't want to see it become manipulative.
    if this company is short on money (assuming here) please make content that the community will love so it will make you extra money.. I seriously don't know what happened as this kind of thing was never present before. As it stands now, i need to see which direction DDO/SSG will go on MTX route before i give you money again. is this a publisher idea or a SSG idea? I don't know; issue #2 was before DDO got changed to SSG.

    If there are other things that need to be added please add them in the comments if i am missing anything.
    Last edited by KING-TYPO; 11-25-2018 at 04:11 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Racials

    It's a joke. You have to do 33 racial TR's (11 non-iconic x3), and you get racial completionist. Here's the kick in the sack:

    Unlike the Class Completionist Feat, this is (currently) a free feat, auto-granted - no Feat slot need be used.

    People that have been here a long time, and have done class completionist? You get to burn a feat slot, or... you can jump on the NEW hamster wheel
    to get something you should already have, a special feat that doesn't tax out most of the feat-starved builds. We stopped supporting SSG due to dumb
    decisions like this. A THIRD hamster wheel, monk nerfs, warlock nerfs, core class changes with zero feedback from the Devs that make any sense.

    Oh, and rogues? We feel your pain too. stealth has been broken forever.

  3. #3
    Community Member MrTrolol's Avatar
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    Getting a heart of wood for a Tr or RTR takes a couple hours or can be punched out in under an hour depending, or have a toon sit at cap and collect tokens overtime.

  4. #4
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    Doesn't the shard reroll have a confirmation requiring an additional click similar to picking up bound items? If not that should be added asap.


    The complaint about the heart requirement is just silly. Tokens are extremely easy to get, i doubt they sell very many at all.
    Note i am not disputing the ridiculous hamster wheel grind complaints. Imo you should get both the heroic past life and the racial just like you do when you as iconic reincarnation.
    Last edited by spyder7723; 11-24-2018 at 08:26 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member MrTrolol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyder7723 View Post
    Doesn't the shard reroll have a confirmation requiring any additional click similar to picking up bound items? If not that should be added asap.


    The complaint about the heart requirement is just silly. Tokens are extremely easy to get, i doubt they sell very many at all.
    Note i am not disputing the ridiculous hamster wheel grind complaints. Imo you should get both the heroic past life and the racial just like you do when you as iconic reincarnation.
    yea if you want to re-roll it asks for confirmation.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTrolol View Post
    yea if you want to re-roll it asks for confirmation.

    Thanks for confirming. So there is no sleazy mechanic to make you unintentionally spend shards like the op is claiming.

    About rerolls: i don't think i've ever rerolled chests before. Mainly cause i don't quite understand the mechanic behind it. Is it the exact same thing as popping the chest once again like a save & reload trick in a single player game or does it actually increase the chance of named gear to appear on the reroll? Put another way: are you more likely to pull a named item from the chest by rerolling or is it identical to just running the quest again (ignoring ransack mechanic for the purpose of this discussion). If its the same as rerunning the quest then the only use i can see for it is on those very long quests when seeking a specific item such as amber temple. If its more likely i can see myself using it even on short quest when seeking a piece of gear. Got to spend those shards on something.

  7. #7
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    Hearts of wood/blood are easy to get, even more easy if you get a few friends to grind sum tokens. Not only that but if you plan to do any epic TR or Iconic lives, you can easily get tokens along the way to 30.
    In a similar fashion getting commendations along the way pretty much halve the amount of heard seed you need to get an Iconic/Epic heart, meaning you dont really need to do 21 quests at cap (or just zerg 21 different epic quest on norm)

    Quote Originally Posted by spyder7723 View Post
    Thanks for confirming. So there is no sleazy mechanic to make you unintentionally spend shards like the op is claiming.

    About rerolls: i don't think i've ever rerolled chests before. Mainly cause i don't quite understand the mechanic behind it. Is it the exact same thing as popping the chest once again like a save & reload trick in a single player game or does it actually increase the chance of named gear to appear on the reroll? Put another way: are you more likely to pull a named item from the chest by rerolling or is it identical to just running the quest again (ignoring ransack mechanic for the purpose of this discussion). If its the same as rerunning the quest then the only use i can see for it is on those very long quests when seeking a specific item such as amber temple. If its more likely i can see myself using it even on short quest when seeking a piece of gear. Got to spend those shards on something.
    shard re-roll is exactly that, a re-roll, no increased chances, just saves time if you REALLY want a specific thing and are willing to spend a bunch of shard on it. as long you did not loot anything, it's not a raid chest, and that no one else sent an item your way already. rerolls are not increasing the ransack of a chest. the cost also seem to follow-ish the formula quest lvl/2, so a lvl 30 quest will cost about 15 shard per reroll and a lvl 6 quest will cost 3.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrael View Post
    Hearts of wood/blood are easy to get, even more easy if you get a few friends to grind sum tokens. Not only that but if you plan to do any epic TR or Iconic lives, you can easily get tokens along the way to 30.
    In a similar fashion getting commendations along the way pretty much halve the amount of heard seed you need to get an Iconic/Epic heart, meaning you dont really need to do 21 quests at cap (or just zerg 21 different epic quest on norm)



    shard re-roll is exactly that, a re-roll, no increased chances, just saves time if you REALLY want a specific thing and are willing to spend a bunch of shard on it. as long you did not loot anything, it's not a raid chest, and that no one else sent an item your way already. rerolls are not increasing the ransack of a chest. the cost also seem to follow-ish the formula quest lvl/2, so a lvl 30 quest will cost about 15 shard per reroll and a lvl 6 quest will cost 3.
    Thanks. So maybe useful for those loooong quest that hold a specific piece you want. And once you get all the ship buffs there really is nothing else to spend shards on. But if we could just get a vendor selling 50% pots....

  9. #9
    Community Member Sharktopus's Avatar
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    I've also been playing since 2010. None of my toons are heroic completionist. My main is epic complete,. I dont have iconic complete because who cares. I'm working on racial completionist on my main, but I'm only 3 races in so .

    Heroic completionist was never that great, and newer TR systems pretty much make +2 to all stats negligible. The bumps to skills and stats heroic TR offers range from okay to not worth it.


    Racial completionist is backloaded but it gives better payout life for life than heroic TR. As you grind it out you get +1 stats and free AP to use for the next race you play. Racial AP add a new dimension to the game that most of us really never utilized before because AP are scarce and class trees are generally superior to racial trees.

    Heroic TR is the same grind over and over for two dozen lives. Racial TRain is any wacky build you want with X race. Anyway, its why I'm playing and rxp alone wouldnt hold my interest.
    Last edited by Sharktopus; 11-25-2018 at 12:30 AM.

  10. #10
    Community Member skorpeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharktopus View Post
    I've also been playing since 2010. None of my toons are heroic completionist. My main is epic complete,. I dont have iconic complete because who cares. I'm working on racial completionist on my main, but I'm only 3 races in so .

    Heroic completionist was never that great, and newer TR systems pretty much make +2 to all stats negligible. The bumps to skills and stats heroic TR offers range from okay to not worth it.


    Racial completionist is backloaded but it gives better payout life for life than heroic TR. As you grind it out you get +1 stats and free AP to use for the next race you play. Racial AP add a new dimension to the game that most of us really never utilized before because AP are scarce and class trees are generally superior to racial trees.

    Heroic TR is the same grind over and over for two dozen lives. Racial TRain is any wacky build you want with X race. Anyway, its why I'm playing and rxp alone wouldnt hold my interest.
    Getting hearts for me is no problem as I ran a lot of epic normal xp runs so they just accumulate. As for the retools I have used them and never actually misclicked that I know of, but now I generally only selectively loot a chest.

    As for racial TR's that is what I am currently working on and I like it (only on my second one mind). It allows me to pretty much play what ever build I want and run it to 20. I got heroic completionist recently and that was harder as I had to play some pretty underpowered builds (well I probably played them badly.

    I picked up a couple of iconic lives along the way as they give a click feat which can be useful but not essential. If I had planned it better I would have combined more of my heroic past lives with iconic ones. But its not all about the end result, but the journey if you know what I mean.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Sharktopus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skorpeon View Post
    Getting hearts for me is no problem as I ran a lot of epic normal xp runs so they just accumulate. As for the retools I have used them and never actually misclicked that I know of, but now I generally only selectively loot a chest.

    As for racial TR's that is what I am currently working on and I like it (only on my second one mind). It allows me to pretty much play what ever build I want and run it to 20. I got heroic completionist recently and that was harder as I had to play some pretty underpowered builds (well I probably played them badly.

    I picked up a couple of iconic lives along the way as they give a click feat which can be useful but not essential. If I had planned it better I would have combined more of my heroic past lives with iconic ones. But its not all about the end result, but the journey if you know what I mean.
    I have plenty of seeds/tokens from playing the epic game for 5 years or whatever. I guess if you're starting from 0 just trying to do heroic and racial lives, you are going to hit a wall. Whether you pay in ddo points or time grinding is up to you but we all pay.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharktopus View Post
    I have plenty of seeds/tokens from playing the epic game for 5 years or whatever. I guess if you're starting from 0 just trying to do heroic and racial lives, you are going to hit a wall. Whether you pay in ddo points or time grinding is up to you but we all pay.

    Throw up a an lfm for devil assault on epic normal. Write in the comments that need tokens. Dont wait to fill. Jyst run the quest and update the lfm when done with wave 3, and then wave 4. I always fill befire finishing wave 5. People will join and pass you the tokens. I'm almost always haffe 20+ tokens after 3 runs. But i also join others and pass them my towns when they need them so maybe i get more friendly folks willing to help me cause i am willing to help them when needed.


    Another fast option is cannith challenges. 300 epic mats trade for a full token. But you have to be level 21 to enter them. Planar palace and lava caves are good returns for the time and effort.

  13. #13
    Community Member KING-TYPO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTrolol View Post
    yea if you want to re-roll it asks for confirmation.
    thanks for confirming this! from what i remember it didn't used to have a confirm window. main post will be updated.

  14. #14
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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    I actually didnt know there is a radical past life, is pdk and shadri considered different? warforge and bladeforge? Wood elf and elf and drow?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NemesisAlien View Post
    I actually didnt know there is a radical past life, is pdk and shadri considered different? warforge and bladeforge? Wood elf and elf and drow?
    Iconics are separate from the racial tr system, each iconic is a race, but since they have their own tr system you can't work them in together.

    If you reincarnate an iconic race, you get heroic and iconic, if you reincarnate a heroic race, you choose racial or heroic.

    https://ddowiki.com/page/File:Reinca..._FlowGraph.jpg

  16. #16
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acemonkey View Post
    Iconics are separate from the racial tr system, each iconic is a race, but since they have their own tr system you can't work them in together.

    If you reincarnate an iconic race, you get heroic and iconic, if you reincarnate a heroic race, you choose racial or heroic.

    https://ddowiki.com/page/File:Reinca..._FlowGraph.jpg
    So is it in the feats so you can keep track?

    Edit, i just looked at my toon, dont see the radical feat. Note, on 4th life.
    Last edited by NemesisAlien; 11-25-2018 at 08:43 AM.

  17. #17
    Community Member MistaMagic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubom70 View Post
    It's a joke. You have to do 33 racial TR's (11 non-iconic x3), and you get racial completionist. Here's the kick in the sack:

    Unlike the Class Completionist Feat, this is (currently) a free feat, auto-granted - no Feat slot need be used.

    People that have been here a long time, and have done class completionist? You get to burn a feat slot, or... you can jump on the NEW hamster wheel
    to get something you should already have, a special feat that doesn't tax out most of the feat-starved builds. We stopped supporting SSG due to dumb
    decisions like this. A THIRD hamster wheel, monk nerfs, warlock nerfs, core class changes with zero feedback from the Devs that make any sense.

    Oh, and rogues? We feel your pain too. stealth has been broken forever.
    Realy?, Where does it say you HAVE to do any Racial Tr's?. If you want to keep up with the Jones that is YOUR choice
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  18. #18

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    any kind of completionist gets bonked when they release a new race or class. Then and only then one might feel obligated to run a PL just to keep up with stuff.

    My main is an epic completionist but has only a smattering of class/racial. I like racial so I can enjoy a class over again while convincing myself that my toon is somehow progressing. If anything is OP it is probably reaper points and I do not have many.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    OP - You have been playing since 2010 and you're just now making a post like this? No offense, but that sounds like a day late and a dollar short.

    The game is about money for the company and fun for the players. There has to be enough fun to balance out the money, and enough money to keep the game going. Racial TR system is no different from any other mechanic in the game with respect to money, time, grind, benefits, fun, etc. As others have mentioned, and you updated your post, there is a confirmation on chest loot re-rolls. When first implemented there was not, and the re-roll button was placed exactly where the loot button had been previously - this was bad and when players complained it was changed in the next patch.

    ETA: Also want to point out that while an Iconic TR also automatically grants you a heroic class feat, you started at L15 and then went all the way to L30. So I don't think it would be right to grant BOTH a racial and heroic PL by going from 1-20. But that's simply my opinion. Others might argue the time it takes to go from 1-15 vs the time it takes to go from 20-30 and I wouldn't disagree enough to argue.

    Last, as others mentioned, the argument about hearts is silly unless all you do is heroic TRs, and even then it's pretty simple to get one for free by the methods mentioned.
    Last edited by Fedora1; 11-25-2018 at 09:15 AM.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Maldorin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistaMagic View Post
    Realy?, Where does it say you HAVE to do any Racial Tr's?. If you want to keep up with the Jones that is YOUR choice
    I have a suspicion in future expansions/updates we will see tomes of racial AP up to +5 or more eventually. Pay to mitigate grind. There is a strong psychological motivation in most people to keep up with the Jones. I'm sure they'll sell.

    Not to mention they always seem to end up balancing the game around the Jones so...

    Personally I have chosen not to do racial past lifes. No one asks if I have them before I'm allowed into a group.

    I despise hamster wheels; they make me feel so rodential

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