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  1. #241
    Barbarbarian Sam-u-r-eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    On the surface the idea with the new raid system that tier 1 items are ML26, tier 2 items are ML27 and tier3 items ML28 seems reasonable. This means you can use the lesser items sooner.

    But I have a feeling the effect instead will be that the lower tier items will largely go unused. Going from level 26 to 28 is a matter of a relative few hours for most people - so organising a full set of gear with effects that match up, purchasing augments etc. at level 26 is somewhat pointless as the time spent to organise and store the gear most likely outweights the time you are likely to wear the gear and certainly the time/value you get from wearing it from 26 to 28.

    Thus, unless the ML26 is actually worth wearing beyond level 28 and most importantly at level 30, there will be a much lessened reason to actively acquire said gear.

    On the other hand - if the gear from all these raids where made the same level AND the effects on the tier 1 and tier 2 gear upgraded to (almost) the same value as the gear from KT/Baba/CoS, then it would be an entirely different matter. Now, if the aim is to give people on the TR train more time to use such gear then simply make it all ML26 but upgrade the tier 1 gear to a +17 level, the tier 2 gear to a +18 level and keep the tier 3 at the +19/20 level. Similarly, lower Slavers gear to ML26 without lowering the stats and likewise lower all other named gear above ML26 to ML26 while keeping the values intact.

    In short - accept that most people wont bother farming and maintaining specialized gearsets at every few levels when those go by relatively fast - and therefore make all the gear ML26 so people can focus on setting up a powerful gearset at that level knowing they get to use it both for leveling from 26 to 30 and while being 30. The feats at 28, 29 and 30 still makes a level 30 significantly stronger but less so making grouping more flexible as well.

    Will this be powercreep? Well, yes, it will, but imho very insignificantly so and possibly just mean that level 26-30 is done in a more fun way rather than EN/EH dailies or Orchard/TH slayers.

    If nothing is done I fear that the large update to add the tier 1 and tier 2 raids into a joint system will fall somewhat flat as few will actually care enough for the loot from these raids as its outdated within a few levels/hours of play. I am really hoping this is somehow adressed in the 2nd preview as the system presented in the first simply does not look compelling enough to have much chance of changing anything and hence likely wont be any sort of real success.
    +1
    Without new players DDO will go the way of the dodo.
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  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    ...- and why we went back and made Phlogs BTA as well. ...
    *Jumps for joy*
    Will existing phlogs become BTA or will it just be phlogs obtained from now onwards?

  3. #243
    Systems Designer
    Lynnabel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmGreen View Post
    *Jumps for joy*
    Will existing phlogs become BTA or will it just be phlogs obtained from now onwards?
    Existing
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  4. #244
    Community Member wraxzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    You clearly did not understand the point. Casual players / "altoholic" players will never care about the cost. So it does not matter how high it is - as they will get there rarely, very rarely, or more likely - never. Power gamers will play - and there will always be a segment of them that will complain about the cost or the lack of incentive. The funny part is that they will play and grind regardless. In fact, the cost needs to be high for these players; if you make it too low, it loses an appeal for those players to strut their stuff.

    However, if the stated goal is to "grow" raiding at end game - then you need to appeal to more than the top tier players on each server. In my opinion, to appeal to new players at end of their 1st life, casual players, altoholic players, you need to make the system friendly for them, not the upper crust. And what incentivizes them is NOT what incentivizes a power gamer.

    These rewards are not friendly to the broader player base outside the power gamers - even at a reduced cost. If you want a broader base of players to run end game raids - in my opinion - you need to emphasize Normal runs, where those players win the lottery with a loot drop (or pass), an openness and invite to try things out (and an acceptance of failure - ala Shroud puzzles) and a chance to mingle (and learn from) upper echelon players.

    As presented, in my opinion, this system will leave raiding right where it is at for much of the players base, dead except for raid channels and guilds.

    ---

    As an aside - I respect and get that power gamers / upper echelon players have constructive criticism as well, more power to them. Many of their comments in this thread are well thought out and presented. It is simply my opinion that their suggestions will not substantively impact what Lynnabel said the goal was - which is to get more players radiing - but rather it will refine the system for their play style.
    If you think I'm the one who didn't understand "the point" when I pointed out your contradiction, then you seriously need to get some retrospect going.
    I wholefully disagree with you, being a casual player and altoholic at present, I care very much about the cost so I'm living proof that your generalised assumptions are nothing more than misguided words.
    The cost for items matter a massive deal to all players, regardless of style or dedication. Saying otherwise is simply foolish, because the system literally exists for the sole purpose of pleasing all players.

  5. #245

    Default wrong forum disregard

    wrong forum disregard
    Last edited by Salamandar; 12-09-2018 at 01:38 AM. Reason: wrong forum disregard
    Once a King, always a King.
    But once a Knight is NEVER enough!

  6. #246
    Community Member mistress_minx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraxzz View Post
    Updating a single old raid item will take 5 raid completions on LN, pro-rata. Considering I have around at least 20 banked raid items that have become obsolete but keeping them for sentiment, that would take 100 raid runs to update them all to a useable point. Talk about discouragement from taking part in raiding! Even half that amount of raids would still be too much, but it would at least be rationally achievable. For those that want to argue "bUt YoU dOnT hAvE tO uPgRaDe ThEm AlL" - what's the purpose of most of patch 41 and this addition then?
    I think that if people who are running the raids now get the upgraded item automatically, then we should all be able to trade in our old items for the new ones for free. Instead, you are correct, it will take 5 runs to upgrade 1 item. So instead of running the raids and being excited about earning the TOF to use for new things, it's like a chore of having to run them to fix your old things before you can save for something else.

  7. #247
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistress_minx View Post
    I think that if people who are running the raids now get the upgraded item automatically, then we should all be able to trade in our old items for the new ones for free. Instead, you are correct, it will take 5 runs to upgrade 1 item. So instead of running the raids and being excited about earning the TOF to use for new things, it's like a chore of having to run them to fix your old things before you can save for something else.
    Or, run the raids to accumulate TOF while trying to get the new named versions? I do not see an immediate end for TOF needs; so people will be doing this for a while still. Either way, you are running more raids; which is what they wanted to encourage. I am not commenting about "fairness", but it does get people in more raids. I can already see folks running more of the Legendary Raids not named Killing Time, Strahd, Baba, and Leg Shroud for whatever their reasons/goals. So, mission accomplished imho.
    Sarlona Server - High Lords of Malkier :
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