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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Any plans to make wands more useful?
    If we could apply spellpower to wands (and staffs) that would be huge -maybe at 50% or even 25% if full is too good?

  2. #22
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Huge improvements, thanks.

    However, Meteor Swarm feels weak in comparison, casting two polar rays seems more effective vs DPSing a single target. ~+47%

    Also seems a bit out of order with the new level 9s which are more powerful once extra caster levels are obtained. They scale ~38% better from extra levels. Will this ever be an issue I cant tell, but thats quite a big gap in their scaling coming from the same tier.

    Making the fire component of MS a d6 seems more in line with its mana cost vs spamming polar ray, of course that ignores a few variables like multiple targets and harder to resist component ( altho the latter really only means something if the player doesnt pay attention, dunno if that needs to be calced into this ).

    SUM: good stuff, looking forward to try these

  3. #23
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    The changes are good, but I ask you to improve incendiary cloud (lv 8) and Horrid Wilting (lv 8), because are spells that nobody uses and really need a buff. Incendiary cloud is a persistent spell, but it is sooo weak

    Melf's Acid Arrow and Burning Blood also need a buff.

    And to a lesser extent, it would not hurt if Fire wall, Ice storm and Acid rain received a buff

    Can I ask when will be the metamagic pass you talked about a few months ago?
    Last edited by Iriale; 11-14-2018 at 04:55 PM.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  4. #24
    Community Member Selvera's Avatar
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    Original impression is that these changes are way off base.

    In heroic levels; wizards and sorcs have more then enough damage currently to get 1-20 fast. Many people even consider Sorcerer currently the best class for a fast heroic pastlife. These changes will make them much; much better at getting heroic pastlives.

    In epic levels; wiz/sorc damage starts to fall off a bit; especially around level cap. This pass seems to have no changes proposed to having spells scale well into epic levels; reworking arcane epic destinies or epic feats/epic spells which epic level casters would be using at level cap.

    The most common complaints about sorc/wiz damage is not that they've bad AoE damage or ranged mob damage... it's that they have bad boss damage. In theory; these are the enemies that can live long enough for a damage-over-time spell to have full effect. However; for some reason these spells are the ones to get left out from this pass.

    So it appears that you're making wiz/sorc way better at what they're already the best classes in the game doing; and no better at what people have been complaining about their performance in.

    Quick math:
    Level 16 water savant dragonborn casting the new polar ray - caster level 20 (+4 cl from water savant, +1 from dragonborn) = 21d6+336 damage base (357 to 462 base damage). With good gear we're looking at 450 spellpower and 34% critical chance. Then add in empower/maximize for +225 spellpower. We're now looking at 2767 to 3581 damage non-crit or 5534 to 7161 damage on a crit. And 2 levels later they get +1 max caster level and a spell which does so much more damage then it.


    And another note: Are mobs getting these buffs as well? Polar ray currently 1hits players pretty consistently with it's 25d3+75 damage. Dealing 25d6+400 damage that you're proposing would mean the only possible defenses against it are not getting hit or spell absorption.
    I guess I'm farming up every spell absorption item in the game next.
    Last edited by Selvera; 11-14-2018 at 05:02 PM.
    Selvera: Half elf Bard 14/Barb 2/Fighter 2; Just having a bit of swash fun with a heroic life.
    Jen: Half Elf Fvs 20/Epic 10; Healer Archer with a more supportive build then usual
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  5. #25
    Community Member Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvera View Post
    And another note: Are mobs getting these buffs as well? Polar ray currently 1hits players pretty consistently with it's 25d3+75 damage. Dealing 25d6+400 damage that you're proposing would mean the only possible defenses against it are not getting hit or spell absorption.
    I guess I'm farming up every spell absorption item in the game next.
    No, mobs are not getting these changes. It was mentioned in the Weekly Wednesday Livestream, and should be in the 2nd post FAQ but is not.

  6. #26
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    What about the Shout spell?

  7. #27
    Community Member vryxnr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    No, mobs are not getting these changes. It was mentioned in the Weekly Wednesday Livestream, and should be in the 2nd post FAQ but is not.
    It's not in the FAQ because it was written/clarified in bold text in the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Upgraded Spells
    We’re upgrading the player versions of several damage spells, as outlined below. The Max Caster Level of these spells will remain unchanged, and Monsters will continue casting the existing versions of the spells (so that we don’t get a sudden spike in enemy caster damage).

  8. #28
    Community Member Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vryxnr View Post
    It's not in the FAQ because it was written/clarified in bold text in the OP.
    Why not both? :P

  9. #29
    Community Member vryxnr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    Why not both? :P
    Why not have a FAQ simply repeat everything that's already in the OP?

    I assume the FAQ is for expected questions that would come from the OP, not reiterating what the OP already states. Some of the FAQ's seem to be things that couldn't be easily inserted into the OP without feeling awkward. *shrugs* But then again, I'm not the one who wrote it.

    ...as for cooldowns, I assume the new 9th level spells will have a similar cooldown to Meteor Swarm (as that is the fire DPS spell equivalent to the others)... which is currently 6 seconds (wiz) / 3.5 seconds (sorc)... though that is only me assumption/guess as that info was not in the OP (it only had cooldown numbers listed for the new 1st level spells).

  10. #30
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    Question What about Shout?

    The spell is AoE, single hit, non-dot, no extra effect.

    Unlisted in changes.

    Also what about Disrupt Undead (lvl 1) it follows the same criteria.
    Last edited by Ultramaetche1; 11-14-2018 at 07:02 PM. Reason: added disrupt undead

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    The changes are good, but I ask you to improve incendiary cloud (lv 8) and Horrid Wilting (lv 8), because are spells that nobody uses and really need a buff. Incendiary cloud is a persistent spell, but it is sooo weak
    So is Acid Fog. And Cloudkill is just in a weird place because it does stat damage, which high-end monsters are basically immune to.

    On the flip side, Horrid Wilting is horrendously OVERPOWERED for mob casters because, like all untyped damage, it ignores MRR. So vs. players it does OMG SO MUCH damage compared to other spells, but vs. mobs it's a solid Meh. Couple that with a slow animation that can cause it to miss packs of mobs and you have an NPC-only spell.

    Melf's Acid Arrow and Burning Blood also need a buff.
    Ayup.

    And to a lesser extent, it would not hurt if Fire wall, Ice storm and Acid rain received a buff
    Although buffing those might work better with a duration increase rather than a damage increase (or just making Extend work with them again.) Different ways of accomplishing similar goals can lead to much-needed tactical diversity.

  12. #32
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultramaetche1 View Post
    The spell is AoE, single hit, non-dot, no extra effect.

    Unlisted in changes.

    Also what about Disrupt Undead (lvl 1) it follows the same criteria.
    Yeah, that!

  13. #33
    Community Member Niminae's Avatar
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    New Spells.

    Wow, 3 new spells! And yes I can count, I see the 7 new spell names, but 4 of the 1st level spells and two of the 9th level spells are the exact same spell with just a different elemental damage type, and so just a copy-paste difference. So it's 3 new spells.

    And it's only 1 level 1 and 2 level 9 spells, with nothing filling in the gaps in all of the spell levels in between other than the concomitant boosting the power level of those spells.

    Still, this is fairly impressive given what has seemed to be a very large amount of inertia attached to the entire concept of creating a new spell. Bravo, and more of the same, please.
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  14. #34
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    Not intending to siderail, but whether using metas is feasible with normal magic will make a huge difference with new & improved spells - whether is still the same old spam SLAs or actually have a variety of choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    How about a few new feats such as:

    Star Power Ultra (or any other cool name you like)
    Anti requisite: Maximize Spell
    Passive
    Increases universal Spell Power by (((150/20)*(Character Level)) + 25)
    Spells will cost 0 more spell points while this feat is taken.


    Star Power Extra (or any other cool name you like)
    Anti requisite: Empower Spell
    Passive
    Increases universal Spell Power by (((75/20)*(Character Level)) + 12)
    Spells will cost 0 more spell points while this feat is taken.

    Star Power Quicken (or any other cool name you like)
    Requisite: Star Power Ultra & Star Power Extra
    Passive
    Applies quicken to all spells for free
    Spells will cost 0 more spell points while this feat is taken.


    One of your big problems is that metamagics are only free for SLAs; metas cost too much, and metas don't scale at all.

    I guess the problem with this is that it buffs things such as Eldritch Blast which are not intended to have Max & Emp applied to them.


    Perhaps we should have something more like:


    Goals:
    Decrease cost of Metas and make them scale into Epics

    Suggestion:
    Divide all Meta cost by at least 4 and up to 5
    Add Epic Level bonuses for Metas

    Maximize Spell
    Usage: Active, Toggled Metamagic
    Prerequisite: being able to cast spells
    Description
    A spell cast using this feat will have its Spell Power increased by +75+(Heroic Levels * 4)+(Epic Levels * 10). Spells will cost 5 to 7 additional spell points (i.e. 10 Spell points becomes 15 to 18). Saving throws and non-random values are not affected.


    Empower Spell
    Usage: Active, Toggled Metamagic
    Prerequisite: being able to cast spells
    Description
    A spell cast using this feat will have its Spell Power increased by +37+(Heroic Levels * 2)+(Epic Levels * 5). Spells will cost 3 to 5 additional spell points (i.e. 10 Spell points becomes 13 to 15). Saving throws and non-random values are not affected.


    Quicken Spell
    Metamagic
    While this feat is activated, spells cast twice as fast and cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks, though all spells will cost 2 to 3 more spell points to cast.



    Free Metas that completely scale would nice too, tried to compromise between...

  15. #35
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    what about other spell caster nukers such as cleric, fvs,druid and artificer? will their spell be improved in the future?

  16. #36
    Community Member Thar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post

    NEW LEVEL 1 WIZ/SORC SPELLS

    • Fire Bolt
    • Freezing Bolt
    • Acid Bolt
    • Electric Bolt

    (Fire Bolt is a real D&D spell - We've kept the naming convention over to the others to reflect their similar nature and make it easy to read.)


    Each of these fires a single-target bolt that does 1d6+2 damage of the appropriate element per caster level, to a max caster level of 10. They cost 2SP each at their base and have a 4.5 second cooldown (3.5 on Sorcerers) shared among all four spells (so realistically, you can only use one right now). These exist in the Wizard and Sorcerer spellbooks, and can be taken at level up. Scrolls of these will be available at scroll shops.

    There are a few goals with these spells:
    • Provide a spammable low-level nuking spell for several arcane builds at a low SP cost
    • Help low-level elemental/nuker casters have more options
    • Help fill out long-range casting rotations (most of the low-level damage spells are touch range, and some characters aren't built to handle that without dying)



    NEW LEVEL 9 WIZ/SORC SPELLS


    • Iceberg
      • (3.5 book Frostburn)
      • Drop a big ol' iceball on your target
      • Single Target Evocation Spell: 1d6+27 per Caster Level, Reflex Save for Half Damage. Max Caster Level 20.
      • 40 Spell Points

    • Acid Well
      • (This doesn't exist in a P&P source; it came directly from Player's Council feedback.)
      • Acid bursts forth from the ground in an area the size of Snowball Swarm.
      • Area Conjuration Spell: 1d6+18 per Caster Level. Fortitude Save for Half Damage. Max Caster Level 20.
      • 40 Spell Points

    • Thunderstroke
      • (From 4th Ed Arcane Power page 37)
      • A big ol' lightning strike to a single target.
      • Single Target Evocation Spell: 1d6+27 per Caster Level, Reflex Save for Half Damage. Max Caster Level 20.
      • 40 Spell Points


    [FONT=Arial]
    The low level spells look good but they should be added as SLA and the level 24 sla spell feats to extend the caster level range and sla for free meta magics or... casting 2+15 emplower + 25 maximize + 10 quicken + 10 enlarge = 62 sp for them at cap with a 10 dice max makes them less useful for end game.

    The other new spells look interesting ie electric = 1d6 + 27 x 20 = 3.5 + 27 = 30.5 x 20 = 610 damage avg pre metamagics and spell power. cooldown could make them less useful

    these don't make up for warlock still being a better no sp dps caster and self temp hp healer. the low level cheap spells need to be within the echos range to regain sp to cast these spells at all levels and still do enough damage to survive. need to be an sla to achieve that with metas needed to keep up the dps since it has a hit dice cap to get to any sustainable damage.
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  17. #37
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    Easy fix.


    Evard's Black Tentacles is now a lvl 4 Wiz/Sorc spell.


    You're welcome.

  18. #38
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    One change I'd like to see is the L5 arcane DOTs behave a bit more like arcane pulse.

    A problem I've always had with Biting Cold and Electric Surge is they are way too easy to drop if you get distracted and miss the short recast window. What I would prefer to see is stacks take longer to decay and for them to decrement rather than just disappear.

    Thanks.

  19. #39
    Community Member Annex's Avatar
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    I suggest changing the name of Acid Well to Acid Gusher, Acid Blowout, or Acid Geyser.

    A Gusher refers to the uncontrolled release of crude oil and/or natural gas from an oil well. Blowout is the modern name for the same event.

    A Geyser refers to the uncontrolled release of water and steam through a surface vent from an underground source, caused my geothermal heating.

    Edit: It turns out the largest acid water geyser in the world is called Echinus and located in Yellowstone National Park. I would go with Acid Geyser as that is a real, naturally occurring event.
    Last edited by Annex; 11-14-2018 at 11:15 PM.
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  20. #40
    Community Member LevelJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    One change I'd like to see is the L5 arcane DOTs behave a bit more like arcane pulse.

    A problem I've always had with Biting Cold and Electric Surge is they are way too easy to drop if you get distracted and miss the short recast window. What I would prefer to see is stacks take longer to decay and for them to decrement rather than just disappear.

    Thanks.
    This right here. I would love a change like this.


    Regarding the other stuff: I'm liking what I see, but would rather hold off until Lamannia before I make my judgements. I see a lot of stuff that I like/asked for, which is a positive. I would like to request that you take a look at some of the neglected buff spells though too, perhaps making more of them scale with Caster level.


    -Jayron
    Last edited by LevelJ; 11-15-2018 at 12:42 AM.


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