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  1. #21
    Community Member Tarnoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    If you are playing a cleric or FvS and can't heal AND do DC casting/offensive Casting/Melee simultaneously then the problem isn't with players like me.

    A good divine caster keeps other party members safe by destructing, slaying, imploding, frogging, greater commanding, and comet falling trash before it can touch them. On bosses, it is easy to toss some heals while DoTting the boss (or whatever DPS you want to use) or tossing some heals while kiting/killing trash spawns to keep them off the party.

    No divines are not just healers, but divines that don't heal are only using half their feature set. The question would be why? Would a barbarian refuse to rage? Would a Tempest refuse to TWF? Would a monk just refuse to use ki strikes and finishers? Would a druid decide to melee exclusively in human form? Would an artificer not equip a rune arm? Would a bard just obstinately decide "I NEVER play songs. EVER"? Would a paladin decide to never use smites or LoH? I mean, sure you could. But why? To what end? What is the point of self gimping your character and ignoring one of the core class benefits? ESPECIALLY a cleric. You don't even have to spend a spell slot on the spells. You get them for free. You just don't want to put them on a hot bar and click the buttons?

    By the same token, if all you do is heal and you don't also DC cast/offensive cast/melee then you are self limiting again and the party should boot you for someone who knows what they are doing and can use the full range of the class features.

    There is no class in the game that is strictly "a healer". Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't really know how to play a divine caster.
    my cleric heals just by proxy and has a 108dc in reaper for necro high dc with boosts for frog and implosion too....i toss heals and a mass around a boss but clerics are for killing trash mostly and self healing and healing others,,,so boss damage ofcoarse but hardly that of the real dpser....but that is not what the cleric class is ...when i want my dps i play my ranger...........so in other words i totally agree with you...anyone on a cleric who wont heal in reaper should be booted for atleast real dps

  2. #22
    Community Member noobodyfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    If you are doing group cooperative play (let's not use the pejorative "trinity play"), then why does your cleric/FvS have aggro (diplo much?) or why is your cleric/FvS standing anywhere near the players doing DPS? Enlarge is your friend.

    Sure there are a few encounters where the space is small or line of sight is limited or a specific boss has an AoE with an abnormally large radius (possibly covering the entire encounter space), but those are the 2-3%. Not the 97-98%.

    I don't think we need a dev solution to what is basically a game play/skill issue.

    Also, my FvS can self heal well enough on high skulls the few times it is needed. It is more likely to take no damage or get 1-shotted than it is need healing and be unable to heal up quickly.

    EDIT: If they did do something for reaper self healing and attach it to "healers" I'd rather see it be something in the Core 6 of Beacon of Hope and Radiant Servant (that only works in combination with a Tier 5 enhancement in the same tree). Lock the player into a build choice that limits offensive casting or melee ability. Pure 20 Cleric/FvS with at least 41 points and Tier 5 in RS or Beacon would mean a non-optimal DC caster or a non-optimal DPS character or a non-optimal tank.

    Your option could allow a Cleric/Arti/Pally tank with a ton of HP/temp HP that can self heal in reaper. Just stand there and spam self heal through damage while intiming. It would significantly ease several end game raid encounters or R10 end game encounters.
    +1 but let's give shield fighters some love

  3. #23
    Community Member MasterKernel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    If you are playing a cleric or FvS and can't heal AND do DC casting/offensive Casting/Melee simultaneously then the problem isn't with players like me.
    Who said I can't ? I don't want to ! I choose to play the role of a damage dealer, not a healer.
    And yes, it's your problem. Players like you do not even try to ask if I would heal them but simply assume I would. Sorry, but no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Would a barbarian refuse to rage? Would a Tempest refuse to TWF? Would a monk just refuse to use ki strikes and finishers? Would a druid decide to melee exclusively in human form? Would an artificer not equip a rune arm? Would a bard just obstinately decide "I NEVER play songs. EVER"? Would a paladin decide to never use smites or LoH?
    You've literally described all of my characters that I had over the last 6 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    What is the point of self gimping your character and ignoring one of the core class benefits? ESPECIALLY a cleric. You don't even have to spend a spell slot on the spells. You get them for free. You just don't want to put them on a hot bar and click the buttons?
    Because I want to !

    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    By the same token, if all you do is heal and you don't also DC cast/offensive cast/melee then you are self limiting again and the party should boot you for someone who knows what they are doing and can use the full range of the class features.
    Yeah. And you should stop telling other people how to play the game.
    They won't do it anyway, because they play for themselves not to please you.

  4. #24
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace_ana View Post
    Yes, because mobs and bosses never move and only stay in their single space to throw cloud AOEs.

    You are playing a vastly different game than the rest of us. I don't think we need a new feat either, but not for the bizarre reasons you are claiming.
    Grace_ana, his post was excellent, and made a lot of good points.

    I can't believe you completely dismissed everything he said. I always thought of you as a good player who DOES use terrain and doors and corners to your advantage, and understands tactics and teamwork.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  5. #25
    Uber Uber Completionist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace_ana View Post
    I am 100% opposed to DDO becoming a trinity game.
    I'm 100% behind you there We can do better than that, and currently do

  6. #26
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    Your option could allow a Cleric/Arti/Pally tank with a ton of HP/temp HP that can self heal in reaper. Just stand there and spam self heal through damage while intiming. It would significantly ease several end game raid encounters or R10 end game encounters.
    My tank alt is a fairly decent healer, I'd love this. Would probably allow me to tank low Reaper for raids with a little help (which is pretty good for a first life IMO).

    An actual tank would do it far better. And yes, ez mode.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  7. #27
    Community Member Lokeal_The_Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoLionxxx View Post
    My main beef the Epic Defense fighting feat was that it would hinder teamwork by hindering the willingness and ability for team members to heal each other - running on my artificer yesterday and today in ToEE, I was having a tough time raising people in the end fight (until I turned the feat off), and helping out the warforged warlock that joined in my pyramid farming.

    In high reaper, healing each other is essentially a requirement for success - to me, that's okay, since high reaper should be about teamwork.


    As for OP's suggestion: perhaps enabling full self-healing in reaper is a way to go. The feat suggested is a tad too restrictive though.

    Perhaps we and the devs should look at classes that are supposed to be able to self-heal, and give players options to lift restrictions.

    Ex.
    When clerics have the "Pacifism" enhancement active (from radiant servant), they get full self-healing in reaper; this imposes a reasonable offensive penalty in favor of being able to heal effectively.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Radiant_Servant_enhancements

    Ex.
    The class granted paladin Lay on Hands ability is not affected by the reaper penalty; Lay on hands is a semi-limited resource that is also a great panic button.

    Ex.
    The bard "Sustaining Song" is not affected by the reaper healing penalty.


    Edit: The flaw in this case-by-case approach is that players would never be satisfied with a restricted list.
    Sounds like a good idea, could artificers receive full healing from item procs and heal over time effects while in reaper?

    If SSG gave each class a self-healing option in Reaper mode, the next step for balance should be re-enabling champion reaper spawns!

    I remember killing a champion reaper, that thing was hilariously tough!

    I don't recall though if that was on Lamannia or simply the early reaper on public servers.

  8. #28
    DDO Players Council Renvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKernel View Post
    Who said I can't ? I don't want to ! I choose to play the role of a damage dealer, not a healer.
    And yes, it's your problem. Players like you do not even try to ask if I would heal them but simply assume I would. Sorry, but no.


    You've literally described all of my characters that I had over the last 6 years.


    Because I want to !


    Yeah. And you should stop telling other people how to play the game.
    They won't do it anyway, because they play for themselves not to please you.
    Maybe you misunderstood me. I'm not telling you how to play the game. I'm telling you how I like to play the game. We just have a difference of opinion. Which is fine.

    Sure. Do what you want in game. Don't cast healing spells on a divine caster. It's your call. Your monk can also wear medium armor and your tempest ranger can fight sword and board. It's your free time. Play it however you want.

    Just don't take offense when people comment that you are self-limiting. Because it is true. They probably just think you are doing it because you aren't aware of the option. Most are trying to help, not put you down.

    I would certainly never say anything negative to you in game for your playstyle. I'd just leave the group (or boot you from the group if I have the star) and find players whose goals and objectives match mine. The big difference is that you came into the thread telling people they have a problem. That they are required to agree with your play style choice or they are wrong. Live and let live is my approach. If I don't enjoy running with you, I'll go run with people I do enjoy. That doesn't mean I have a problem. Or that you do. It means I'm playing for myself. Not to please you.
    Asheras - Velania - Renvar - Ventarya - Officer in Loreseekers and Officer of Lava Divers - Khyber

  9. #29
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKernel View Post
    Players like you are the reason I want a big, like 1/2 of the screen big, "I am NOT a healer !" inscription flying over my character's head.

    Join the group -> See the Cleric's icon -> Assume he's a healer -> Die. Sorry, I don't care about what did you think I am, but I'd do a good job of taking your soulstone and tossing it into a lava pit.
    Why roll a cleric if not going to use its heal capabilities? Sorc/warlock does the DPS thing better, and wizards do the DC thing better.

  10. #30
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    What do you mean by small space?

    Seems to me, it's fairly easy in 95% of encounters in this game to avoid aggro. You only have to stand back a few feet in many situations.
    When pocket immy healing sure.

    On an evoker using implode while keeping the party alive at the same time, proximity to aggro is pretty close.

  11. #31
    Community Member MasterKernel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    The big difference is that you came into the thread telling people they have a problem.
    And they have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    That they are required to agree with your play style choice or they are wrong.
    No, they are required to ask what my play style is. And, if they don't like it, they are free to leave.

    The other MMOs usually have something in UI that shows what role every member of a group has. DDO has nothing of that kind and it's what I want to be implemented.

    And, since we don't have it, it's your fault for not asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    If I don't enjoy running with you, I'll go run with people I do enjoy.
    And leave the group in the middle of a long chain without any hope to find a substitution. Sure.

    Ask beforehand ? Of course not - you've seen the classes and already assumed how everyone would play. Oh, big surprise, they do quite the opposite to what you've assume they would. :-\ Now it is the perfect time to lecture everyone in the group how they self-limit themselves because they refuse to serve Almighty You, and leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renvar View Post
    That doesn't mean I have a problem.
    Yes, it does.

  12. #32
    Community Member MasterKernel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Why roll a cleric if not going to use its heal capabilities? Sorc/warlock does the DPS thing better, and wizards do the DC thing better.
    What do you mean by "why" ? Because I want to !
    Do you even understand how silly your question is ?

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