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  1. #41
    Community Member Eddexp's Avatar
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    Haha... fighter with Handwraps gona be better then Monks... -Monkas
    Fighter with bow are better then rangers...
    Lets ev1 play Fighters
    [<O>] Orien: Set(-TCompletionist-)

  2. #42
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noobodyfool View Post
    All this means is they will all go falcon and pick-up 15%-20% so it really its a buff of 13.5%-17.5% go falcon/aasimar
    Oh I get it, I can buy the new falcon tree and get my monk's dps back, wait a minute... I already paid money for monk in the first place. Can't I just trade some of those lame cosmetics I was forced to buy with the expansion for my monk w's back? Do I have to buy another tree now?

  3. #43

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    Unarmed Strike is a unique class feat and it's really an essential part of the monk class in DDO. It's a big part of what makes them better at using handwraps than a fighter or any other class. What you're proposing to replace it with, +1 to hit, is essentially nothing. At the very least it should be +1 hit and damage, but preferably it would stay similar to what it is now - boosting weapon die. Currently monk damage in heroics isn't stellar and doesn't stand out at all from the other melees. This change seems focused too much on balancing around capped players.

    Dropping Unarmed Strike from .5W per 4 levels to .25W per 4 levels results in a -1.25W. That coupled with reducing the W from the item enhancement Reinforced Fists by 50% results in a similar loss of W. Fleetfoot Necklace's Superior Reinforced Fists gives 1.5W at level 29, dropping that to .75W reduces monk W by 2 at capped. Most monks at cap wear or want to wear Fleetfoot Necklace, dropping cutting the bonus won't make much less desirable, 0.75W is still a huge boost. And the other items with normal and Greater Reinforced Fists would be reduced to .25W and .5W from .5W and 1W respectively. Items with Reinforced Fists would still be sought after by monks and still require gearing trade offs to wear.

  4. #44
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini-Dragon357 View Post
    Unarmed Strike is a unique class feat and it's really an essential part of the monk class in DDO. It's a big part of what makes them better at using handwraps than a fighter or any other class. What you're proposing to replace it with, +1 to hit, is essentially nothing. At the very least it should be +1 hit and damage, but preferably it would stay similar to what it is now - boosting weapon die. Currently monk damage in heroics isn't stellar and doesn't stand out at all from the other melees. This change seems focused too much on balancing around capped players.

    Dropping Unarmed Strike from .5W per 4 levels to .25W per 4 levels results in a -1.25W. That coupled with reducing the W from the item enhancement Reinforced Fists by 50% results in a similar loss of W. Fleetfoot Necklace's Superior Reinforced Fists gives 1.5W at level 29, dropping that to .75W reduces monk W by 2 at capped. Most monks at cap wear or want to wear Fleetfoot Necklace, dropping cutting the bonus won't make much less desirable, 0.75W is still a huge boost. And the other items with normal and Greater Reinforced Fists would be reduced to .25W and .5W from .5W and 1W respectively. Items with Reinforced Fists would still be sought after by monks and still require gearing trade offs to wear.
    I think you missed the point here. The truth is, monk is well... too monk like. Clearly, monk needs to be more like two weapon fighting ranger or fighter. By making this wonderful change, a monk can enjoy fighting side-by-side with their melee brothers and sisters without feel different or unusual. Handwraps are weapons now. Everything in balance. Remember the game isn't about you, it's about the mone...err I mean the game. SSG gave you the bird (tree) before they announced this change, what's problem?

  5. #45
    Community Member Jetrule's Avatar
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    Melee monks are overpowered. I approve this change!
    Percivaul Dusol, BadRandall and Shortpact--The Silver Legion

  6. #46
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    This... is not a good change. Unless you're using legendary ravenloft wraps, that +2.5[w] adds an average of 2.5 x 3.5 = 8.75. Powerful? Maybe. Overpowered? Not at all. Not on a weapon with base 20/x2 crit profile. However, morninglord/nightmother/duality add another 5/5/7.5 damage on top of that, on weapons that already push the envelope on weapon power. So once again, you seem to be nerfing monks, both in heroics and epics, based on how powerful 3 level 29 weapons are.

    If you really want to lose the 5 x 0.5[w], which scales the same on all wraps except morninglord/nightmother/duality, replace it with 5 x +1 attack and damage, not just +1 attack.

    Also, while you're nerfing monks (again), mind fixing some monk bugs? Like ki shout (uses intim instead of concentration), vorpal strikes (gives slash bypass but no vorpal proc), and items that add an on-hit effect for unarmed like tower of despair burst rings and brawling gloves (they do nothing while wearing wraps).

  7. #47
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    Monks have lower hit dice then most melee, that's what they give up to increase DPS, pls take that into consideration.

  8. #48
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    2.5 [w] for 25% more hit points from epic defensive stance seems a fair trade for those that play in epics.

    Edit: oops. Didn't mean to bump.

  9. #49
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    I don't understand... Why nerf a class that has the possibility to do end game (not all melee monks can afford that wihour PLs, gear and in game skills) while other classes are trashed and stink?

    They already wrote monk is strong because is balanced, dps wise is not top dps.

    They already wrote maybe is better to fix bugs and improve game.

    Maybe developers need to be player to have some clue?

  10. #50
    Community Member hp1055cm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We like the Monk class a lot (my main is a Monk), and want to keep supporting it through cool new gear and interesting abilities; but to do so, we need it to be in better balance with the rest of the game.
    I can't believe you are actually talking about another nerf for pure monks. I can't truly express my disgust and abide by forum rules.
    Look, I'm 6+ years in and I'm not gonna drop the Q word over this; but will I play less and enjoy it less... Yes.

    If the problem is with endgame DPS then why are you adjusting DPS at the heroic level?

    The real problem with this game is player retention and grouping - That is what you should be focused on.
    You should be asking yourself each time you make a change, "Will this promote player retention or chase more people away?"

    People have been asking for QOL changes as long as I have been playing and nothing ever gets done. How about you actually poll the player base to help you decide what changes the game may need?
    I mean, TR Cache, TR process in general, Ladders, Hirelings, broken features, better LFM tools, better Trade tools, portals, Token of the twelve alternatives, etc - useful improvements that people actually want.
    Does that just make too much sense, or is it me?

  11. #51
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    I can't believe you are actually talking about another nerf for pure monks. I can't truly express my disgust and abide by forum rules.
    Look, I'm 6+ years in and I'm not gonna drop the Q word over this; but will I play less and enjoy it less... Yes.
    It went: Big nerf, Super buff, Small nerf. For monks :P These all being relatively recent changes.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    This is a Known Issue, one we hope to fix when time allows. It is Not Small.
    Instead of replacing Intimidate with Concentration maybe it would simply be easier to change the enhancement to something like:
    - Adds [10/15/20] to Intimidate checks
    - Adds [25%/50%/75%] of your Concentration skill to Intimidate checks
    - Adds [quarter/half/full] monk level to Intimidate checks
    - Adds WIS modifier to Intimidate checks

    And there's probably many more ways. Rather than leave an enhancement to be useless, this could at least be changed to something that is easier to accomplish and still somewhat useful.

  13. #53
    Community Member Zeklijan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Hello! ..... /cut
    Hey Steel, thanks for the heads up! I get why this is happening, so I'll bear with you (knowing I main this class)

    While we're on topic of monks, I'd like to mention a few things here.

    1. Grandmaster of flowers destiny has interesting Ki abilities, but their DC needs to be looked over. The fact that none of them factor in stunning or combat mastery bonuses make all of these abilities completely unusable at lv 30, even with a fully geared out character.

    2. I feel monks lack the ability to customize, it used to be possible to have touch of death, void strike on a handwraps dark monk(It was a tight fit and little room for anything else back then, but still possible). Now each are exclusive to a certain type of style, void for henshins, dark for non handwraps monk, and light for handwrap monks. It's very limiting and really feel these shouldn't be mutually exclusive, if one would like to play a dark monk with handwraps I feel the game punishes too hard by losing on core abilities (such as crit threat ranges, for example), or by making many of the action point choices specific to a weapon type only. I see why it makes sense from a MMO point of view but the beauty of DDO is it allows room for creative build thinking, which I think is lacking with monks right now.

    3. Henshin needs proper and interesting weapons to play for monks in endgame. Only handwraps have the cool monk effects, and I feel Quarterstaves options are very limited for the endgame (which is especially important since the sentient weapon update)

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Zeklijan; 09-13-2018 at 07:08 PM.

  14. #54
    Community Member FuryFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    To correct this, we are changing the innate Unarmed Strike feat that Monks get every 4 levels to grant +1 to Attack while using Handwraps instead of 0.5[w]. This reduction (a total of 2.5[w] for pure Monks) brings Unarmed Monks much closer to other High-DPS Melee builds of similar gear. The overall reduction in DPS will depend highly on build and gear; the average we're seeing is about a 10% drop on a capped Pure 20 Monk.
    I guess this is a reasonable change, since the damage dice buffs were from a different era of handwraps. That said, handwraps are a [1d6] weapon, so keep that in mind vs other weapon types which scale more with [W] scaling. I'm not really against a damage nerf to monks balance-wise, especially considering their significant defenses and CC. However, I would much rather see improvements to Monks' special abilities, combo attacks and other fighting styles (staff, ninja weapons, etc) to make the class more fun to play.

  15. #55
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    If you are doing this, I would like to see some changes in the enhancement trees, to let Pure Monks have enough good stuff in their trees, to spend all there points. Each tree is limiting in what works for it.
    If you look in each tree you see things that limit your choices to the weapon of THAT tree. Ninja Spy has many things that say (does not work with staves and hand wraps). Shintao Core abilites work only with hand warps, etc.
    And Stunning Fist feat only works with hand wraps, make it, you have to be centered and work with staves also.

  16. #56
    DDO Players Council Xyfiel's Avatar
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    I would rather have the base class part stay and the misc. bonuses removed.

  17. #57
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    Default A small plea of compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Hello!


    We're here today to talk about an upcoming change coming soon (likely Update 40). A few years ago, we converted Handwraps from being non-weapon equippable items into actual weapons - A change that allowed a large number of effects and abilities to start working with Handwraps as they do other weapons. In that process, we also brought over most of the existing features meant to help Handwrap DPS be equivalent with that of other weapon types. As part of our continued balance pass on Melees, it has become clear that Handwrap Monks are still an outlier in terms of DPS. When compared to other Melees (and even other Monks), Handwrap Monks still deal substantially more damage than other similar builds with similar gear. This is, in part, due to an increased number of Weapon Dice while wielding Handwraps. In retrospect, the buffs they got in the transition to being "real" weapons made the additional damage dice much less necessary.


    To correct this, we are changing the innate Unarmed Strike feat that Monks get every 4 levels to grant +1 to Attack while using Handwraps instead of 0.5[w]. This reduction (a total of 2.5[w] for pure Monks) brings Unarmed Monks much closer to other High-DPS Melee builds of similar gear. The overall reduction in DPS will depend highly on build and gear; the average we're seeing is about a 10% drop on a capped Pure 20 Monk.


    This change does not affect the other sources of Monk Handwrap Damage Dice, such as:

    • Improved Martial Arts Feat
    • Reinforced Fists item effects
    • Touch of the Void Dragon and To Seek Perfection
    • The Disciple of the Fist Past Life Feat



    These will continue to add +[w] while using Handwraps as they do now. These have their impact on total DPS as well, but they require build decisions and gearing tradeoffs to achieve, which we're comfortable with. Internal playtesting shows that Handwrap Monk DPS continues to be very strong after the changes.


    We like the Monk class a lot (my main is a Monk), and want to keep supporting it through cool new gear and interesting abilities; but to do so, we need it to be in better balance with the rest of the game. We're also aware that there are classes with a lot of room for improvement as well; the recent Barbarian pass was work aimed in correcting classes that are behind where they should be, and we have plans for improving other such classes in the future. Thanks for bearing with us as we continue to work on class balance.
    So I don’t disagree with game balance at all, one of my mains is a monk as well, but could monks get some mitigation against damaging spells? Some additional MRR access would balance out the loss of dps. Dps is also a form of mitigation, I don’t want Monks to get lost again, I enjoy playing mine, and I am sure others feel the same way. Other classes might have slightly lower dps, but they also have access to more mitigation, both PRR and MRR. So a fair scale of things makes sense to me.
    Killonius Maximus, proud member of Storm Lords guild,
    Thelanis Server

  18. #58
    Community Member cave_diver's Avatar
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    Nerf rangers & rogues....they have more dps then monks atm......actually just nerf everything.



    Personally, monks, rangers, melee rogues are in a good spot at the moment....how about leaving them alone and fixing pallys & fighters
    Last edited by cave_diver; 09-13-2018 at 09:27 PM.
    Main toons: IronThatcher (Melee Ranger), Mehhh (DC Sorc)...pion of HS...zug zug
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesrali View Post
    Go munt your grandma while wearing my freeway mitt!

  19. #59
    Community Member cave_diver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    This is a Known Issue, one we hope to fix when time allows. It is Not Small.
    Not sure how small or big this is but can you elaborate how you broke this from 1 patch to the next? If it is SOOOO big, just give us a useful enhancement instead at this spot> Say 2.5W added to wraps

    e
    Main toons: IronThatcher (Melee Ranger), Mehhh (DC Sorc)...pion of HS...zug zug
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesrali View Post
    Go munt your grandma while wearing my freeway mitt!

  20. #60
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave_diver View Post
    Nerf rangers & rogues....they have more dps then monks atm......actually just nerf everything.



    Personally, monks, rangers, melee rogues are in a good spot at the moment....how about leaving them alond and fixing pallys & fighters
    Please do a FULL post about both Rangers and rogues and why they need to be nerfed! I need some entertainment.

    This change for monks I'm ok with and I have had a monk before they where even the meta when players who still can't build a monk think they are suddenly good.

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