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Thread: Caduceus

  1. #1
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    Default Caduceus

    Hello forumites,

    Starting to think about next life, and wondering about a wis based stick wielding healer. 12 FVS for wisdom to damage, and wis boosts to damage, and quarterstaff deity (which includes wis boost), and heal spell. 6 monk henshin for special attacks, quick strike and expanding crit threat and multiplier. 1 rogue for staff speed.

    Would be mix of melee and healer. The idea would be that with both ameliorating strike from war soul and fists of light and healing ki from monk, and high positive spell power, I could do a fair bit of healing in the course of meeleeing. If things get tricky, can fall back on proper heal spells. DPS is not going to be top draw, but there does seem to be quite a lot of congruence between the trees. I have a green steel acid acid acid staff from a previous life, which goes nicely with porous soul.

    Would be primarily go down the dodge / blur route, rather than high PRR. Feats I guess THF chain, maybe cleaves. I doubt I can trap properly, but might do so for the first few levels, as I will start with rogue, and low level trapping is such a help. Build will be super gimpy until about L4 but I figure that is Ok.

    I have completed and enjoyed a pure TA before. Never played monk. I figure high wis and sounding staff will help with ki. If I get into epics, which I rarely do, then there are some great looking wis based attacks in grandmaster of flowers.

    Any thoughts? Where does the final level go? What else should I be thinking about?
    Last edited by SpiritofAlba; 08-31-2018 at 01:22 PM.

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    Default Maybe I should have entitled this thread something else

    I thought it was a nifty name for the build (google it), but maybe a bit opaque for the forum...

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    I think I'd take a 2nd level of rogue for the Haste action boost. And you should really try to get an Elemental Bloom from ToEE in advance if you haven't got one already, the increased crit range and multiplier is better than anything else you can find regarding staves. Dreamspitter from the heroic Gianthold raid is a great weapon to switch to when fighting oozes and rust monsters.

    Other than that I don't really have much to add. It seems like a solid idea and now you just have to start crunching numbers in a builder and see if things add up, and then if it does take it into the game to test the theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnie View Post
    I think I'd take a 2nd level of rogue for the Haste action boost. And you should really try to get an Elemental Bloom from ToEE in advance if you haven't got one already, the increased crit range and multiplier is better than anything else you can find regarding staves. Dreamspitter from the heroic Gianthold raid is a great weapon to switch to when fighting oozes and rust monsters.

    Other than that I don't really have much to add. It seems like a solid idea and now you just have to start crunching numbers in a builder and see if things add up, and then if it does take it into the game to test the theory.
    Thanks for your thoughts.

    I can get haste boost in War Soul enhancements, so don't need rogue 2 for that.

    Elemental bloom does look sweet. I don't have ToEE at the moment, but might be a pack to get.

  5. #5

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    before advancing to level 12, switch to fists of darkness and take shadows cannot exist without the light. The 100 AoE healing hit 6sec cooldown is awesome in heroics and even reaper. Unlike thr healing finisher, you do not interrupt the attack chain so no dps loss. In epics the LCEWS is better because the neg levels will help folks land CC attacks & it drops hp on mobs if at their max
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    before advancing to level 12, switch to fists of darkness and take shadows cannot exist without the light. The 100 AoE healing hit 6sec cooldown is awesome in heroics and even reaper. Unlike thr healing finisher, you do not interrupt the attack chain so no dps loss. In epics the LCEWS is better because the neg levels will help folks land CC attacks & it drops hp on mobs if at their max
    Thanks Saekee, great tip.

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    Default Update: how it plays (L1-L8)

    TRd to this build, and now up to L8.

    In general, it has been great:

    I had a nice ML1 crafted great Xbow from a previous life, and with one AP into mechanic for proficiency, and PBS (now swapped out) that made the first couple of levels comfortable. Not that you need much of anything for the first couple of levels, but still nice not to be hiding in corners. Its actually been a handy emergency ranged option too, for oozes and awkward high up mobs, though gradually becoming redundant.

    Once into proper staff build, with wis to hit and damage, DPS has not been too shoddy. Divine Will and Haste Boost help a lot. Realised belatedly that strength too low for THF line, but with 10 start and 3 tome have been able to take power attack, and more recently cleave.

    Ameliorating strike needs 20AP in war soul, and it actually took me until L8 to get there, but it works lovely, proccing 50 or so HP heals to all friends in range. Depending on the party and the level, can stay in melee or fall back to healbot.

    I am a bit squishy, and can suffer if surrounded. About to take first monk level, and I think AC wis boost will more than compensate for the loss of medium armour. Probably more relevantly, will be building up dodge and blur etc in next few levels. I think I also need to boost jump, as that is poor in a low strength build, and sometimes can be difference between life and death in crowded fights.

    The really nice bit has been traps. I went a bit generous with int at 14 start, and with reasonable gear and just one rogue level I am trapping everything without any problems. With heals and traps, I feel like a useful addition to any party, and I can generally make a real contribution with the staff too.

    Currently rogue 1 and FVS 7. Planning to take two monk levels next for evasion and quick strike. Not sure after that. Managing all the monk attacks is going to be a learning curve.

  8. #8

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    can you craft insightful shards? At level 10 make a trapping set with insightful bonus together (gloves for disable)

    Things are going to get a lot tougher. I have an assassin at level 8 but am using a staff & have found that even an elemental bloom leaves things dicey at times
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    can you craft insightful shards? At level 10 make a trapping set with insightful bonus together (gloves for disable)

    Things are going to get a lot tougher. I have an assassin at level 8 but am using a staff & have found that even an elemental bloom leaves things dicey at times
    Yes, can craft insightful skills. (Sadly not insightful stats yet). Interestingly, at L9 have started to finds traps a little tougher though still manageable. Have some mid teens trapping gear ready, but probably will do a L10 set as you suggest.

    Will have to see how it goes DPS and survival wise, but optimistic.

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    Default L9 to L13 report

    Now at L13, split as 7FVS, 5 monk, 1 rogue.

    Reached some nice DPS goodies in the enhancement trees. Quick strike in Henshin gives 25% doublestrike most of the time, and there is another 10% dbs from the war soul tree. Tier 5 warsoul now giving me wrathful weapons which procs regularly enough to be on more than off, and gives 50ish extra damage per hit, which for me at this level is excellent. Oddly seems to be quite a few monsters that don’t take it though - not sure if this is a bug, or some DR or restriction. Have been assuming will switch to Tier 5 henshin in due course, though will trial both.

    Ameliorating strike still very handy, increases with character levels. Monk ki heal not so much - because linked to monk levels, numbers just not worthwhile. In fact, although I am chucking in the odd ki strike in attack chain, main monk benefits at the moment is that quickstrike, and the excellent wisdom bonus to AC. 2 points of wis from ocean stance also. Wonder whether there is something monkish I am overlooking.

    Planning to take one more of monk, for sounding staff / MP, adept of forms, another martial arts feat. Then will switch back to FVS levels for more heal spells, extra 10hp per level, diety feat etc. Trapping is holding up reasonably well with right gear and think I can get away without another rogue level.

    So far, really enjoying this build.

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    I did something similar to this about 2 years ago, FvS12/Rog5/Mnk3. Note this was after the addition of new deity feats and some monk updates, but before they got wismod and pre-pass for henshin as well.

    Notes on Rog1 you might be hurt with not enough skill points to throw around for proper trapping. Also no access to hasteboost, but that's solvable if you take a 2nd level rog with that last level. Feats might be tight between the full THF line and 2 more feats for higher monk stances. Pull up planner to see how the enhancement spread will look like as well.

    Overall I remember heroic ran fine with prior experience as an acrobat (played the tree since pre-MotU, technically wasn't a tree back then but whatever). I'd say just play it like an acrobat with heal options, and don't count too much on monk beyond throwing in light hits for healing finisher. I -was- a strength build so it mostly turned out to be a LD cleaver, now that you can play wismod you can probably check out if the DCs work out and intend to play in GMoF.

    A little late I guess, but hope that helps if you want to bring the build any further.
    Last edited by askrj1; 02-28-2019 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Gave myself 21 heroic levels apparently... fixed.
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
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    Quote Originally Posted by askrj1 View Post
    I did something similar to this about 2 years ago, FvS12/Rog5/Mnk3. Note this was after the addition of new deity feats and some monk updates, but before they got wismod and pre-pass for henshin as well.

    Notes on Rog1 you might be hurt with not enough skill points to throw around for proper trapping. Also no access to hasteboost, but that's solvable if you take a 2nd level rog with that last level. Feats might be tight between the full THF line and 2 more feats for higher monk stances. Pull up planner to see how the enhancement spread will look like as well.

    Overall I remember heroic ran fine with prior experience as an acrobat (played the tree since pre-MotU, technically wasn't a tree back then but whatever). I'd say just play it like an acrobat with heal options, and don't count too much on monk beyond throwing in light hits for healing finisher. I -was- a strength build so it mostly turned out to be a LD cleaver, now that you can play wismod you can probably check out if the DCs work out and intend to play in GMoF.

    A little late I guess, but hope that helps if you want to bring the build any further.
    Always good to hear from another person who likes sticks.

    Haste boost is in Warsoul, so have that. You may be right that I will at some point need second rogue level for traps.

    As mentioned above, haven’t got the strength pre reqs for THF line, which is annoying, but at least makes the choice of feats easier!

    Have high hopes for GMoF wis based goodies, when I get there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofAlba View Post
    Always good to hear from another person who likes sticks.

    Haste boost is in Warsoul, so have that. You may be right that I will at some point need second rogue level for traps.

    As mentioned above, haven’t got the strength pre reqs for THF line, which is annoying, but at least makes the choice of feats easier!

    Have high hopes for GMoF wis based goodies, when I get there.
    Kind of forgot since War Soul didn't have haste boost back then. In fact it was still Warpriest when I did it.

    Even without the THF line you might want to take PTHF, iirc it has no prereqs, and the glances add up.

    The passing line for wis to get enough DC on GMoF is pretty high (above 80s iirc), but that depends on the level of content you're running as well I guess.
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
    Thelanis - Striving to be your Swiss Army Knife for DPS, traps and tanking
    Eushully/Sunny Cleric (transient) | Nantekottai/Stuck in TR (again) | Ponoka - Sub.

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    Default L14 to L22 report

    In heroics, build held up pretty well and makes a good all round contribution to a party. DPS not top draw, but not useless either, with high DBS and cleaves. With Wis boost to AC, high dodge in Ocean stance, and extra HP from FVS Stout of Heart, plus evasion, much less squishy than many a light toon. Heals from ameliorating strike continue to be helpful, though it was nice to finally take heal. With mid teens trapping gear, managed to still be trapping pretty well all the way to 20, with only one or two of the outlying traps eluding me, and only one rogue level.

    Epics have been a bit of a wake up call. Of course, some epic content IS just tough, amd PUGs tend to range more over the levels. Started GMoF from scratch, which didn’t help, but even now I have the tree fairly filled out feel like at the back of most parties. I haven’t done a lot of epics before, so have less useful gear in the bank. Looking forward to equipping Sireth at L23. The GMoF special attacks definitely have potential, so focusing now on trying to ramp up Wis for higher DCs (though appreciate from earlier comments this is tricky). I have twisted in momentum swing, which is a good one to have in the attack sequence.

    Planning to take this all the way to 30. Will see how we go.

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    Default L23 - L30 Report

    Took up to L30 eventually (first time I have done this on a toon), and now preparing to TR (after a long chase for 5k favour).

    Overall, I really liked this build. The mix of melee, heal and traps does work, as does Ameliorating strike as a significant heal route, Wis to damage / AC bonus is neat, and I've always just liked sticks for flavour anyway. I have been badly undergeared in higher epics, and in hard content in groups need to accept that I'm much better off just sticking to heals. I do actually like the healer role, and it is notable that although the healer role although not fashionable (outside high reaper I guess) can make all the difference. One of the nicest moments was a full pug legendary tempest spine, where the group was wiping all over the place (me included), but when we regrouped with me as dedicated healer, we pulled through fairly easily.

    I did run a while GMoF, but then switched through divine trees, mainly to experiment and fill out destinies. I particularly liked Divine Crusader, with the powerful Consecration / Sacred Ground / Crusade line (working well with high heal power), No Remorse for even more heals (both of these work particularly well with a melee healer), Celestial Champion and Zeal too. I had Sireth critting on 14-20, and could have gone to 13-20 if I'd gone Henshin T5. That oddly I never got around too, because the Henshin tree (with the exception of a few real goodies like Quick Strike and MP, doesn't feel like it justifies 30 AP when anything tied to monk levels (only 6) is weak.

    Perhaps one day when I have more PLs and reaper points and epic gear I'll come back to this. In the meantime, recommend as something a bit different from the norm, though of course not optimal!

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    In case you haven't TR'd yet and depending on what your plan is it could be worth doing an eTR first and then a regular TR back to level 1. The past life stances from epics work in heroics and are very very good.

    Healing Ki can be very very good but needs some investment to make it worth it for yourself. Devotion, Heal and Healing Amp all play a part so get as much of each as you can and you will see a big difference.

    Stoner81.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    In case you haven't TR'd yet and depending on what your plan is it could be worth doing an eTR first and then a regular TR back to level 1. The past life stances from epics work in heroics and are very very good.

    Healing Ki can be very very good but needs some investment to make it worth it for yourself. Devotion, Heal and Healing Amp all play a part so get as much of each as you can and you will see a big difference.

    Stoner81.
    Yes, good advice, and did an eTR for doublestrike on next life, before TR.

    That wasn't my experience with healing Ki - I think it needs more monk levels - but I maybe didn't give it enough of a chance. I've yet to do a monk primary life, so may try again then, though haven't yet decided what kind of monk that will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofAlba View Post
    Yes, good advice, and did an eTR for doublestrike on next life, before TR.

    That wasn't my experience with healing Ki - I think it needs more monk levels - but I maybe didn't give it enough of a chance. I've yet to do a monk primary life, so may try again then, though haven't yet decided what kind of monk that will be.
    Healing Ki - Creates a mass-cure healing burst from the player, healing 1d4 points plus 1d4 points per Monk level to any within the area of effect.

    So yeah more Monk levels will certainly be a big(ish) factor

    Stoner81.

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