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  1. #1
    Community Member Valiance's Avatar
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    Default Echo of Wave clickie ends if you unequp

    So farmed up Echo of Wave excited for a weapon that was decent at best on a druid caster but at least had a clickie that was useful across the board as I farm up my racial past lives.

    Nope. The second you unequip Wave the damage reduction clickie goes away. Making this a truly worthless item.

    Is this WAI? Other clickies don't disappear when you unequip so not sure what the deal is.

  2. #2
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiance View Post
    So farmed up Echo of Wave excited for a weapon that was decent at best on a druid caster but at least had a clickie that was useful across the board as I farm up my racial past lives.

    Nope. The second you unequip Wave the damage reduction clickie goes away. Making this a truly worthless item.

    Is this WAI? Other clickies don't disappear when you unequip so not sure what the deal is.
    Pretty sure this is WAI, i remember Lynnabel posting something a little while back about getting it to work that way
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  3. #3
    Sovereign Vorpal Halfling of Supreme Good scipiojedi's Avatar
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    WAI to prevent exploits
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Working for free makes it very difficult to spend money on swords.
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  4. #4
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    The Shielding effect that reduces damage basically stacks. So if it didn't go away, you could have enough time to stack enough of them where you basically take no damage at all, on ANY difficulty (including R10). Hence, auto-off on unequip.

    J1NG
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  5. #5
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiance View Post
    So farmed up Echo of Wave excited for a weapon that was decent at best on a druid caster but at least had a clickie that was useful across the board as I farm up my racial past lives.

    Nope. The second you unequip Wave the damage reduction clickie goes away. Making this a truly worthless item.

    Is this WAI? Other clickies don't disappear when you unequip so not sure what the deal is.
    It is WAI, per Lynnabel. Doesn't make it useless, it's still a fantastic tank clicky on any non-shield build, but especially since it's non-exclusive it would obviously be the premier tank item in DDO if it remained across swaps. As such, it's a great item for making a non-tank into a temporary tank, but it's not a top-tier required item on every character.

    Not to mention the DC 35/90 freeze chance on spellcast.

    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    The Shielding effect that reduces damage basically stacks. So if it didn't go away, you could have enough time to stack enough of them where you basically take no damage at all, on ANY difficulty (including R10). Hence, auto-off on unequip.

    J1NG
    It stacks with itself? How did you test that? Given that it swaps off on equip.

    Even so, it's 25% off everything post-mitigation so it's very nice if you're not using a shield.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  6. #6
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Also (and I say this despite not loving the argument) it's consistent w/ canon. It's the item itself that provides the buff, not a spell that the item casts on you. Which is what most other clickies do.

  7. #7
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    Yep, WAI. The intention wasn't for every tank ever to have to farm one up from now until the rest of time - it's just a cool thing that Wave can do for you. Part of me really wishes all Clickies worked like that, but I'm pretty sure you guys would revolt if that were the case.

    It's currently a little finicky, though, so enjoy that while it lasts
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  8. #8
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Yep, WAI. The intention wasn't for every tank ever to have to farm one up from now until the rest of time - it's just a cool thing that Wave can do for you. Part of me really wishes all Clickies worked like that, but I'm pretty sure you guys would revolt if that were the case.

    It's currently a little finicky, though, so enjoy that while it lasts
    A simple solution if you were worried players who would farm up tons of this quarterstaff for 1 minute clickies is to make it exclusive.

    The reasoning behind this, to me, is weird. You can farm up tons of other clickies like displacement, GH, stoneskin, DW and other things like last for 1 minute to 10 minutes or more. And then there are potions and wands you can buy for plat, get from DD, get from events and so forth. It's just very inconsistent reasoning.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    A simple solution if you were worried players who would farm up tons of this quarterstaff for 1 minute clickies is to make it exclusive.

    The reasoning behind this, to me, is weird. You can farm up tons of other clickies like displacement, GH, stoneskin, DW and other things like last for 1 minute to 10 minutes or more. And then there are potions and wands you can buy for plat, get from DD, get from events and so forth. It's just very inconsistent reasoning.
    It's already exclusive

    What I don't want is for everyone in the universe to say "now I need a copy of Wave for all of my characters forever so I can hit that 1m clickie once/rest regardless of if I use staves or not." I like having swap items and cool clickies (U39 items had quite a few long duration ones), but Wave is way too high profile to be relegated to "swap item everyone is bored farming for." We've got some good ideas cooking for cool swap items - Night Revels, anyone? - but Wave just doesn't fit that profile.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  10. #10
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's already exclusive

    What I don't want is for everyone in the universe to say "now I need a copy of Wave for all of my characters forever so I can hit that 1m clickie once/rest regardless of if I use staves or not." I like having swap items and cool clickies (U39 items had quite a few long duration ones), but Wave is way too high profile to be relegated to "swap item everyone is bored farming for." We've got some good ideas cooking for cool swap items - Night Revels, anyone? - but Wave just doesn't fit that profile.
    sorry. I missed it when I looked it up on wiki.

    since it is exclusive, what is the point of the clickie affect going away when you unequip the item than? you can only have 1 in your inventory.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    sorry. I missed it when I looked it up on wiki.

    since it is exclusive, what is the point of the clickie affect going away when you unequip the item than? you can only have 1 in your inventory.
    We don't want every character on every life to benefit from being able to swap it in for the full duration without actually being a character that would normally use Wave. It's a fun unique effect, and turning Wave into a "everyone should carry one around to cast this 1/rest" stick does a disservice to its theme and history.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  12. #12
    Community Member Valiance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    We don't want every character on every life to benefit from being able to swap it in for the full duration without actually being a character that would normally use Wave. It's a fun unique effect, and turning Wave into a "everyone should carry one around to cast this 1/rest" stick does a disservice to its theme and history.
    I hear what you are saying but unfortunately I think you overestimate both the stand alone power of the item and the uniqueness of the effect. To me it is a slightly longer than usual Radiant Forcefield clickie. I mean if it wasn't exclusive then it would be pretty sweet for a druid caster/air/water sorc. As it is now it's hard to justify using this at all even on a caster who can make use of it due to it being 2 handed.

    There is nothing wrong with making an iconic weapon desirable to everyone. Isn't that the point of "cool" loot?

    Anyways thanks for responding. I guess it is what it is. It's just sad that I get all excited for a piece of gear that I re-rolled several times for and now feel like "meh, maybe I'll use it on that one druid life" lol.

  13. #13
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    We don't want every character on every life to benefit from being able to swap it in for the full duration without actually being a character that would normally use Wave. It's a fun unique effect, and turning Wave into a "everyone should carry one around to cast this 1/rest" stick does a disservice to its theme and history.
    Yeah, I got that. I still think its inconsistent with the history of clickies. Thanks for explaining.
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  14. #14
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiance View Post
    To me it is a slightly longer than usual Radiant Forcefield clickie. lol.
    What "usual" radiant forcefield clickies?
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  15. #15
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    What "usual" radiant forcefield clickies?
    I believe they are referring to Legendary Greensteel - That optional additional effect you can add on.

  16. #16
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    This is another one of those threads with that tinge of unreality these forums seem to specialise in delivering.

    Sorry to hear you spent your time and shards chasing this item, OP. I also had that 'oh, so this item just isn't worth carrying' moment when I made that discovery about the clicky. It doesn't really seem like it would be all that useful even to tank or stick builds who are unlikely to want to keep it equipped over their usual gear for the duration of the clicky effect.

    Maybe it might help a druid caster played by someone whose DCs aren't quite there and isn't good at controlling their aggro? Or an ice sorc? Or someone who can't get FoM and/or UA from one of many other sources and thinks the weapon slot is a good place to have those effects?

    Still, I suppose we should all be grateful that iconic named loot was designed in a way that means it largely ends up as disappointing sentient weapon food rather than something that gives us more reason to storm the castle one more time together. That isn't a disservice to the item's special theme and history, not at all. And we've had a taste of this approach before with some of the wackier design decisions on RL gear and House J helms, so it's not like this is new.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 08-30-2018 at 06:09 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    snip
    Again, the 3 key items from White Plume are restricted by their ease of acquisition - their description is a bit of a hint as to what's coming. We don't want to introduce raid-level items at non-raid levels of acquisition, it devalues raid content's high risk, high reward gameplay. The safest solution is to let everyone play with the fun themes and visuals, and then truly reward dedicated, high skill players with awesome loot that meets their lofty expectations
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Again, the 3 key items from White Plume are restricted by their ease of acquisition - their description is a bit of a hint as to what's coming. We don't want to introduce raid-level items at non-raid levels of acquisition, it devalues raid content's high risk, high reward gameplay. The safest solution is to let everyone play with the fun themes and visuals, and then truly reward dedicated, high skill players with awesome loot that meets their lofty expectations
    Some of us suggested that the drop rates be low for these weapons so that they would be worth having when we did get them. I think making them easy to get and hardly worth having, in their base forms at least, was exactly the wrong way to go. In terms of loot design, as an acknowledgement of the special place of these iconic weapons, and as motivation to run the content.

    There has been some hinting already about an upgrade path for the weapons. I guess we'll have to see what they look like in their upgraded forms and what it takes to do the upgrades before passing judgement about that.

    But if Wave and the other weapons do become much better, then won't we be back in the situation of the item becoming so useful and desirable that everyone thinks they should get one? And how will that change the fact that a quarterstaff with mainly caster and utility effects just isn't all that useful for traditional or even stick build dodge tanks let alone almost everyone else?

    Not really seeing how you can dig yourselves out of this now. At most what you're doing is postponing a discussion of the consequences of these decisions until later on. And given that we can run raids on a spectrum of difficulty settings with often less than stellar loot, I'm not really sure it's accurate to describe that part of the game as high risk and high reward play. These days the core challenge of raiding is finding enough people to assemble a decent group.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 08-30-2018 at 06:45 PM.
    Astrican on Khyber

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    I think making them easy to get and hardly worth having, in their base forms at least, was exactly the wrong way to go.
    The upgraded versions of the weapons will be competitive with the weapons that come from Baba Lysaga, The Curse of Strahd, and the upcoming u40 raid. It'll make a lot more sense when you see it come together, but for now, just remember that just because the base items are at regular quest drop rates, the rest of the stuff you need to make their true forms might not be the easiest in the world to come across
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The upgraded versions of the weapons will be competitive with the weapons that come from Baba Lysaga, The Curse of Strahd, and the upcoming u40 raid. It'll make a lot more sense when you see it come together, but for now, just remember that just because the base items are at regular quest drop rates, the rest of the stuff you need to make their true forms might not be the easiest in the world to come across
    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    There has been some hinting already about an upgrade path for the weapons. I guess we'll have to see what they look like in their upgraded forms and what it takes to do the upgrades before passing judgement about that.
    Yes, already covered that point in my last post.

    Just make better loot for us please. Loot that gives us a reason to form groups and run your content. Doesn't have to be OP and doesn't have to be useful for everyone all the time, but should find that point where it's sufficiently desirable not to become sentient weapon food most of the time.

    So no more abjuration rings, clickies that disappear when we unequip the item, caster sets that are worse than gear from earlier packs, bad rogue gear justified as utility items, raid daggers with wounding on them, epic helms that can be upgraded with heroic effects, replacement event items that are worse than the originals, items with a negative energy absorption effect that a PM would want to wear, bad raid bows, etc etc etc. It's a long list.

    Some of the new gear we've received over the last few updates has been good, but a fair amount has been pretty ordinary or even bad. I think the ability is there at SSG to make good loot, but there is some problem with your process at the moment resulting in a lot of lemons. It would be great to see that fixed.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 08-30-2018 at 09:52 PM.
    Astrican on Khyber

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