Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    4

    Default Advice on Dwarven support archer build.

    I'm a new player and I've been working on a build that I intend to play somewhat casually for a while but would like to have the option of taking into challenging content, and I've got something that I like and think can go places, but I wanted to ask for input on the build over some things I still have questions over. This build started by envisioning a clan of Dwarves that places a high importance in combat, where males typically take frontline roles in melee combat while females support them with bows. But these are Dwarves, so those archers aren't going to be light-armor wearing pansies who have to run when threatened, but resilient, heavily armored warriors staying close to the melee fighters they support.

    So, this is a primarily Fighter build. I felt that it was too limiting to remain a pure fighter after trying it out that way first, so I decided to add in 6 levels of Ranger. This gives the build 4 feats for free that it was going to get anyway, 1 more than what is given up by losing 6 levels of Fighter, as well as some other minor benefits. This also resulted in a lot of underutilized skillpoints that I had to find a use for. Conveniently, there's a great way for such a build to support its melee fighters with those skillpoints: trapping. So, I added in 2 levels of Rogue for skillpoint purposes for a 12 Fighter/6 Ranger/2 Rogue build that I think could work out well.

    For now, let's assume that I want to do some of the really difficult content while examining this build, just to talk about how it would perform. Here are the enhancements and feats I've planned out up to level 20:

    Code:
    Kensei:							Stalwart Defender:		Mechanic:		Dwarf:
    
    Kensei Focus Archery 1AP				Toughness 1AP			Arbalester 1AP		Dwarven Toughness 1AP
    Spiritual Bond 1AP					Stalwart Defense 1AP					Dwarven Constitution 2AP
    Strike With no Tought 1AP								Mechanics 3AP
    Power Surge 1AP						Durable Defense 3AP		Awareness 1AP		Dwarven Armor Mastery 3AP
    							Stalwart Defensive Mastery 3AP
    Action Boost Haste 3AP									Skill Boost 3AP		Child of the Mountain 2AP (Only one rank)
    Weapon Group Specialization 2AP				Resilient Defense 3AP					Dwarven Tactics 3AP
    							Armor Expertise 3AP
    Ascetic Training 3AP (Unsettled type)										Dwarven Runes 3AP
    Weapon Group Specialization 2AP				Strong Defense 3AP
    							Shield Expertise 3AP
    Shattering Shot 3AP
    Critical Mastery 3AP					Reinforced Armor 3AP
    Strength 2AP
    Tactics 4AP (Only two ranks)
    
    Improved Destruction 2AP
    Weapon Group Specialization 2AP
    
    A Good Death 1AP
    Weapon Master 1AP
    One with the Blade 1AP
    Deadly Shot 1AP
    Keen Edge 1AP
    
    Total AP spent: 35					Total AP spent: 23		Total AP spent: 8	Total AP spent: 14
    
    
    Chosen Feats:			Key Free Feats:		Extra Free Feats:
    
    Point Blank Shot		Bow Strength		Diehard
    Dodge				Rapid Shot		1st Favored Enemy
    Mobility			Precise Shot		2nd Favored Enemy
    Shot on the Run			Manyshot		
    Weapon Focus: Ranged
    Greater Weapon Focus
    Weapon Specialization
    Greater Weapon Specialization
    Improved Critical: Ranged
    Improved Trip
    Sap
    Stunning Blow
    Heavy Armor Training
    Tactical Training
    Some questions thus far:

    I'm not sure which of the Ascetic Training choices would be better. I heard reflex saves are great to have, but so is fortification. I can't tell what would be more valuable.
    I have three tactical feats for disabling enemies in close combat, two of which have DC checks, and I have a total +8 bonus to tactical DC checks with this build. Is this a good fit? Should I maybe take one or two fewer tactical feats, or might I need to go harder on the DC bonuses to have a reasonable chance at success?
    Any imporvements that could be made to the enhancements? I'm already rethinking Child of the Mountain, considering putting one of its AP into some other Dwarven enhancement to keep the tree going and putting the other point into Swift Defense for +10% move speed.

    For stats, I'm starting with a 28-point build going for 16 strength, 16 dexterity, 14 constitution, 12 intelligence, 8 wisdom, 6 charisma. During level-ups, I'll point 2 points into dexterity and the rest into strength. The dexterity is so that I can get combat archery with a 3 point stat tome, which is the only consideration for anything past level 20 I've made so far.

    By following a pattern of two Fighter levels followed by one Ranger level with the two total Rogue levels at the two far ends, I can get the following skills with 12 intelligence:
    23 Disable Device, 23 Spot, 23 Search, 13 Open Lock, as well as 4 of various other skills. One of the two spells this build will get can be the Jump spell to bring Jump up to 14 before strength mod.

    How desired is having Open Lock in high level content, and how useful is it with it being 10 skill ranks low? Keep in mind, I have a permanent +8 to Open Lock and +4 to Disable Device thanks to Mechanics and the stat modifiers, and could boost them both by another 10 a limited number of times thanks to Skill Boost and Power Surge before we even consider equipment. Would that be high enough for high level content? I'm trying to figure out if it's worth having Open Lock with all that since I could drop intelligence by 2 and still get a 23/23/22 spread for Disable Device, Spot, and Search.

    Overall how does this build look? It's intended to be a support built that works closely with melee classes, doing damage and disabling foes, removing traps that threaten the party, and having the bulk to take some hits.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    18,177

    Default

    Welcome to DDO.

    Your build is...kinda all over the map. Archery is the most backloaded of combat styles in DDO; and you are lacking a lot of key abilities such as the Improved Precise Shot feat or any APs invested in the two ranger archer trees (Arcane Archer and Deepwood Stalker). You talk about meleeing, but you're lacking some important feats there. And you want trap skills as well on a 28-pt build which focused on fighter, which only gets 2 skill pts per level by default (+/- INT bonus).

    I've made my fair share of flavor builds over the years - heck I just posted a dwarven fighter who is an all-purpose axe specialist even though thrown weapons mostly suck - but that doesn't mean I endorse them for newcomers.

    I would recommend you consider a ranger build like the Tempest Trapmonkey. Rangers get most of their ranged and melee (TWF) feats free; so you don't need quite so much DEX to start, freeing more pts for INT. Specializing a ranger mostly comes from how you break out your Enhancements.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Yeah, I realized that being spread out over a few functions would probably wind up being a flaw for the build. However, melee combat was NOT one of the things it's being built for. I mention melee only as other characters that this is intended to support. The tactics feats are a defensive option for myself or for allies. There's no plan to use melee weapons, other than perhaps to break open boxes.

    I'm lacking Improved Precise Shot because it's a stance and won't stack with Stalwart Defense, which is where the build is getting a lot of its defensive bulk from. The two ranger trees, however, both are not thematically appropriate and appear to lack any good low-hanging fruit. I imagine they would be good if I were to build around their strengths and invest heavily in them, but I'm building around other strengths so I don't think there's anything worth going for in those trees.

    I've looked into dropping 19 of the AP in Stalwart Defender and the 1 AP in the Dwarf tree to put elsewhere, but I don't see any significantly good choices. The Deepwood Stalker tree looked like it might be a good choice for a bit for Sniper Shot and Improved Weapon Finesse, while dropping 4 AP in the mechanics tree to get Deepwood's Skill Boost instead for a net cost of 7AP. Improved Weapon Finesse sounds good at first because I could drop strength and focus on dexterity for damage, freeing up many stat points, but the tactics feats use the strength mod for their difficulty checks. Dumping strength would make those worthless, which would remove the only remaining survivability option this build would have.

    It doesn't get self-healing one way or another. With Deepwood Stalker, it doesn't get heavy defense bonuses to avoid taking damage or tactics feats to disable enemies temporarily. I don't expect merely wearing heavy armor to be enough to get by.

    This is why I liked Stalwart Defender in the first place, nothing else has a clear benefit for the character. They all involve giving up what Stalwart Defender offers just for limited benefits. Keeping Stalwart Defender gives me 25 PRR/MRR, +3 competence bonus to saving throws, +20% HP, +50% armor class. I look at these and see strong bonuses, and the ones deeper in the tree scale well.

    Now, if Improved Precise Shot is so great, I could drop Dodge, Mobility, and Shot on the Run to get it and try to toggle between it and Stalwart Defense as needed. I get Manyshot for free thanks to the 6 Ranger levels, so I wouldn't need those feats for that. I could get two more tactics feats with the other two free slots for a total +11 bonus to tactics DCs.

    I called it a support archer because it's intended goal is not DPS. It's intended goal is to support the characters who are DPS by handling the traps and disabling enemies that threaten them. Having the defenses to not die while accomplishing that is the next priority, and damage dealing comes last.

  4. #4
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    2,885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennan View Post
    There's no plan to use melee weapons, other than perhaps to break open boxes.
    That's wise - in DDO, you want to specialize, not generalize. Find one good way to kill your enemies, rather than 2 ways to simply irritate them. This goes doubly on a 1st life build, and trebly w/ only 28 points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennan View Post
    The tactics feats are a defensive option for myself or for allies.
    But now you're contradicting yourself - no, sorry, just no. Ranged OR Melee - those are your only options. Not some of each - one or the other, done.

    You're doing something many players new to DDO do, which is confuse concept w/ practicality. The concept is great - it's creative, it's lively, it's evocative, it's got that great D&D feel. But while it might work on table-top, it just won't here, or at least not as well as it does on paper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennan View Post
    I called it a support archer because it's intended goal is not DPS. It's intended goal is to support the characters who are DPS by handling the traps and disabling enemies that threaten them. Having the defenses to not die while accomplishing that is the next priority, and damage dealing comes last.
    But, unfortunately, the moment this "rogue/archer" steps up close and personal to do some "tactical support" melee - first they're quite possibly going to fail (because their DC's aren't high enough), and then they're going to get squashed flat by whatever they've just annoyed. Just the way the game works.

    Best support is via archery - maybe the AA line, paralyzing arrows??? Or, first life, just stick to DPS - if you add your damage to the mix, enemies will fall faster. Save the tricksy tactics for 2nd life and a 34 point build.

    I'm lacking Improved Precise Shot because it's a stance and won't stack with Stalwart Defense
    Yeah, but if you don't get close to the enemy, you won't need that much defense (in theory, ahem).

    In DDO right now, DPS is King. Only the most carefully nurtured, properly geared, multi-life tank can concentrate on defense and still make it thru the tough quests - and that's some slow going.

    The two ranger trees, however, ... are not thematically appropriate...
    Fair enough... however...

    Look, I'll be the first to support that Rule 1 is... Have Fun! 100%, no argument. It's your toon, your game, find your fun the way that you want.

    But if you make a build based on "theme", a build that ignores the practical realities of this version of D&D (a version equally different as AD&D and 3.5 and 4 and 5) - you're going to die. A lot. So you have to ask yourself - will you have fun watching that "thematically appropriate" character die repeatedly? Will you have fun when the primary "support" you provide is inviting your party to resurrect you over and over?

    Your call.

    Because Stalwart Defender + poor DPS just won't cut it. Pinky swear.


    Unbongwah is one of the several "build gurus" on these boards. His advice is something to listen to. When I first joined, I did something much like you're trying to do, shoehorn too much into a build because it was "what I wanted", despite near-unanimous advice on these forums that it would fail - and that alt is still sitting at Level 8, dead in the water, a mule and dwarfy reminder of my early ignorance and over-enthusiasm.

    But despite that, it's also true that I still like the concept. I've just accepted that it simply won't work in this game.


    (If ~I~ (def not a guru) were to give you some advice, I'd first say "Ranged rather than Melee", and then I'd suggest shifting the theme to a Dwarven crossbower/trapper. From there, you could either go "common wisdom" and make it a pure(ish) Rogue mechanic (either 18 or 20 levels), or (if you insist) stray from the beaten path and make it something like a Rogue 6/Ranger 6/Fighter 6 (+2 where ever) Mechanic/DWS/Kensai. It won't be the toughest build, but it should do well enough to survive to 20, and it could be a lot of fun - and you'll learn whether or not we were giving good advice as you travel that road.)

    Edit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennan View Post
    For stats, I'm starting with a 28-point build going for 16 strength, 16 dexterity, 14 constitution, 12 intelligence, 8 wisdom, 6 charisma. During level-ups, I'll point 2 points into dexterity and the rest into strength. The dexterity is so that I can get combat archery with a 3 point stat tome, which is the only consideration for anything past level 20 I've made so far.
    DPS is King, so first priority is your DPS stat - that should be (close to) maxed*. Next is Feat requirements - Dex 13** for Precision. (Or a Dex 14 +1 from Level-ups - that works too.) And at least 6 points into Con - for a Dwarf, that's a 16 - nice. Last is some Str (if not a Str build) so you don't become burdened carrying just a few chest-fulls of loot.

    And for any Rogue, you need the Skill Points for Spot, Search, and Disable Device, plus (preferably!) UMD for scrolls in later levels. Open Lock can be < maxed, you just have to roll more to get the high roll to open your target, and accept that the toughest locks are out of reach.

    * If a crossbow Mechanic, you can make it an Int build - Int goes To Hit and to damage, Int for trapping, Int for skill points - win/win/win.

    (** IPS is really, REALLY nice, but not ~absolutely~ necessary, and Dex 19 is a real strain w/ only 28 points. You will get a +2 Tome free at 1750 total favor, but even a 16, +1 level up +2 tome, is rough. You can muddle thru to 20 without if you have to.

    And on that note, on a 28 point build, I STRONGLY recommend you do NOT plan to go to 30. Plan to do a Heroic Incarnation at 20, get your 34 point build, and then go for Epics.)
    Last edited by C-Dog; 08-13-2018 at 02:12 PM.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    18,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennan View Post
    However, melee combat was NOT one of the things it's being built for. I mention melee only as other characters that this is intended to support. The tactics feats are a defensive option for myself or for allies. There's no plan to use melee weapons, other than perhaps to break open boxes.
    Sap and Stunning Blow are melee-only. Tactics bonuses are melee-only. You're either splitting your focus between melee & ranged; or you're taking feats you never plan to use.
    I'm lacking Improved Precise Shot because it's a stance and won't stack with Stalwart Defense
    Common misunderstanding: ranged stances like Archer's Focus and IPS are separate from defensive stances like Stalwart / Sacred Defense. You can combine both along with a combat stance (usually Precision for a ranged toon).

    There are a lot of things labelled "stances" which will stack with each other if you know how to combine them. Frankly it's kinda ridiculous.
    The two ranger trees, however, both are not thematically appropriate and appear to lack any good low-hanging fruit. I imagine they would be good if I were to build around their strengths and invest heavily in them, but I'm building around other strengths so I don't think there's anything worth going for in those trees.
    The good things about the Kensei tree are the crit and Ranged Power bonuses plus the Weapon Focus line. What it's lacking is Doubleshot; you gain a bit from the cores but that's it. You also don't invest in AA imbues which got more powerful a couple of years ago.

    Now if you just want to solo Normal content, any old toon will work since you can play at your own pace. But you mention wanting to tackle "challenging content" someday and people aren't going to have a lot of patience for a relatively low-DPS ranged toon like this.
    I called it a support archer because it's intended goal is not DPS. It's intended goal is to support the characters who are DPS by handling the traps and disabling enemies that threaten them.
    The single most useful bit of CC an archer has is Paralyzing Arrows, IMO, which your build doesn't take. So even as a "support" toon, you're still not living up to your stated goals.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    But now you're contradicting yourself - no, sorry, just no. Ranged OR Melee - those are your only options. Not some of each - one or the other, done.
    I may have been a bit presumptuous in figuring I could use it for enemies attacking others, but I originally intended it to be useful to stop an enemy from attacking me should I happen to get its attention. I had heard that was a good way for a character to survive, to disable a couple enemies for a while with sap/trip rather attempting to reduce and take all the damage the enemies would do. I was also in a good position to take enhancements boosting their DCs along the way to higher tier enhancements I wanted with no other good choices, so I decided to go for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    first they're quite possibly going to fail (because their DC's aren't high enough)
    This is what I came here looking to hear. If Improved Trip with a +11 bonus to its DC from feats and enhancements isn't enough for it to be useful without a high strength build this won't get or equipment bonuses that detracts from the trapping function, then there is no point going for tactics feats and I can drop any attention to them. I didn't come here with an idea expecting it to just work well as it was, I knew there could be issues with doing something well enough to be useful. If I'm not going to be using tactics feats, then I can certainly pull away from the front when there are enemies.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    and then they're going to get squashed flat by whatever they've just annoyed. Just the way the game works.
    I certainly don't expect this build to be capable of tanking, but I do expect the investment into Stalwart Defense and its armor to make a noticeable difference in how long it can survive getting attacked in comparison to another build filling a similar role such as a pure Rogue mechanic. If both of the builds are attempting disengage from enemies that are attacking them but this one could survive two or three times as long without help thanks to Stalwart Defense, I think that it could be a worthwhile trade-off. That extra time alive is full of chances for another party member to assist and prevent that resurrection. Avoiding being attacked in the first place would be best, but if it were to come to that, being able to avoid death for significantly longer is a trait I'm looking for. If the math works out where I can't even expect that kind of a difference with the investment in Stalwart Defense and heavy armor, then there's no point in having Stalwart Defense and the build falls apart as there's no flavor left in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    But if you make a build based on "theme", a build that ignores the practical realities of this version of D&D (a version equally different as AD&D and 3.5 and 4 and 5) - you're going to die. A lot. So you have to ask yourself - will you have fun watching that "thematically appropriate" character die repeatedly? Will you have fun when the primary "support" you provide is inviting your party to resurrect you over and over?
    I dunno, one of my earlier ideas was nicknamed "The Coward" and was a pure Rogue that would tumble, run, and hide at the first sign of enemies but would be the best trapper/lockpicker you would ever see in your life, but I didn't expect players to respond well to it, so actually playing with people probably wouldn't work out.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    Unbongwah is one of the several "build gurus" on these boards. His advice is something to listen to. When I first joined, I did something much like you're trying to do, shoehorn too much into a build because it was "what I wanted", despite near-unanimous advice on these forums that it would fail - and that alt is still sitting at Level 8, dead in the water, a mule and dwarfy reminder of my early ignorance and over-enthusiasm.

    But despite that, it's also true that I still like the concept. I've just accepted that it simply won't work in this game.
    Well, if you're that insistent that doing more than one thing won't work, I could always go back to Stanway the Coward.

    More seriously, I knew better than the 28-point, no past-life build I showed to you being end-game viable when I came here. I don't even expect it to be capable of the hardest stuff if I were two throw in all the build points and past lives you could imagine, I just wanted to make sure the character wouldn't struggle with the more moderate content inbetween leveling up on casual alone and hardcore stuff for hardcore people. The character that I play doesn't have to be the best, just good enough, does what I want it to do, and is something that I shaped. I'm into DDO because I'm into character building, and DDO has more room for character building than I've found elsewhere. As far as I'm concerned, there's no point in playing if I'm only going to follow the character build someone else designed.

    You also don't invest in AA imbues which got more powerful a couple of years ago.
    The single most useful bit of CC an archer has is Paralyzing Arrows, IMO, which your build doesn't take.
    My reservation towards these two abilities comes from the things that modify them. You're not necessarily doing anything new by throwing those into the mix, but you are using more stats. They need spellpower, wisdom, and enchantment bonuses, which this didn't need before and are at odds with the trapping bonuses it does need. I don't think you could tack it on to a build like this.

    I'm working on a rebuild with everything tactics-related dropped, but I don't have time to finish it at the moment.

  7. #7
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    2,885

    Default

    Btw...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennan View Post
    I'm lacking Improved Precise Shot because it's a stance and won't stack with Stalwart Defense, which is where the build is getting a lot of its defensive bulk from.
    SD & IPS are diff types of stances, and you can have them both running simultaneously, no problem. I just confirmed this on an alt that has both.

    o http://www.ddowiki.com/page/Stance

    Also, DWS has some PRR boosts ("Survivalist") on its own.

  8. #8
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    2,885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennan View Post
    If Improved Trip with a +11 bonus to its DC from feats and enhancements isn't enough for it to be useful without a high strength build...
    That's the problem - by default, the Trip DC is Str-based, so unless you truly focus on Str you're just not going to get anywhere near "no fail", and may well be closer to "zero chance of success" land, depending. Meanwhile, that's a LOT of Feats and AP's spent on a "special situation" action.


    More seriously, I knew better than the 28-point, no past-life build I showed to you being end-game viable when I came here. ... I just wanted to make sure the character wouldn't struggle with the more moderate content ... The character that I play doesn't have to be the best, just good enough...
    If your focus revolves around 1 stat, it should not struggle. Problem is that your build, as presented in the OP, does not come close to doing that. Pick ranged OR melee, and decide what the ONE primary stat will be, concentrate on that, and spin off that one stat (28 pt builds can't be multiple-attribute-dependent, not unless they're Drow.)

    If you want to Trip, then make a Str build - that'll work. Find other things that will work off Str, and go from there. But there are other CC options that work off other attributes/etc.

    I'm into DDO because I'm into character building, and DDO has more room for character building than I've found elsewhere. As far as I'm concerned, there's no point in playing if I'm only going to follow the character build someone else designed.
    I understand, and I largely feel the same way.

    The problem is that, as someone completely new to this "edition" of D&D, you don't know what works and what doesn't, and how to get where you want to be. The Feats are easy, the stats/abilities are easy, the skills are easy - even those 3 in combination are not a huge challenge. The challenge is the Enhancements, which are a new twist to character building, and easily as important as all those other 3 put together.

    Until you really understand those, you're driving blind.


    So, you have 2 choices - roll the dice, hope blind luck works out, and accept that the odds are against it - ...OR... take "someone else's build", and spin off of that. Strip away what you feel you don't need/want, and add what you do. That way you have something personalized, but aren't re-inventing the wheel without a complete understanding of what "rolls" and what doesn't.

    And note that the first option is a valid choice - you'll learn what doesn't work and why, and probably learn more about character building than "following someone else's build". You just have to accept that they'll have a distinct possibility of ending up sitting next to my mule, twin failed dwarven brothers from different mothers of mis-invention.

    I'm working on a rebuild with everything tactics-related dropped, but I don't have time to finish it at the moment.
    Not sure what character builder you're using (if any?) - try this one:

    o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5534437

    It has a very intuitive interface, and a very clean output for the forums, very easy to read at a glance.
    Last edited by C-Dog; 08-13-2018 at 06:53 PM.

  9. #9
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    4

    Default

    So, here's a revised version of the build, dropping tactics and strength to use dexterity for damage and keeping but minimizing the non-DPS features that actually make it what I want.

    Code:
    Dwarven Archer
    12/6/2 Fighter/Ranger/Rogue
    Neutral Good Dwarf
    
    
    Level Order
    
    1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Fighter . . . .11. Fighter . . . .16. Ranger
    2. Fighter. . . . .7. Ranger. . . . .12. Fighter . . . .17. Fighter
    3. Fighter. . . . .8. Fighter. . . . 13. Ranger. . . . .18. Fighter
    4. Ranger. . . . . 9. Fighter . . . .14. Fighter . . . .19. Ranger
    5. Fighter. . . . 10. Ranger. . . . .15. Fighter . . . .20. Rogue
    
    
    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . .8. . . .4: DEX
    Dexterity . . . 18. . . .8: DEX
    Constitution. . 18. . . 12: DEX
    Intelligence. . 10. . . 16: DEX
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . 20: DEX
    Charisma. . . . .6. . . 
    
    
    Skills
    . . . . .Rg Fi Fi Rn Fi Fi Rn Fi Fi Rn Fi Fi Rn Fi Fi Rn Fi Fi Rn Rg
    . . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4. 5. 6. 7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Disable . 4 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. . .1 .1 . . 1. 1. . .1 .1 . . 1. 1. . .7. 23
    Spot. . . 4 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . 3 .1. 23
    Search. . 4 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . . .3. . . . 3 . . 22
    Open Lo . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Swim. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Tumble. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Heal. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .32 .2 .2 .6. 2. 2. 6 .2 .2 .6. 2. 2. 6 .2 .2 .6. 2. 2. 6 .8
    
    
    Feats
    
    .1. . . . : Dodge
    .2 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Ranged
    .3. . . . : Mobility
    .3 Fighter: Point Blank Shot
    .6. . . . : Weapon Specialization: Ranged
    .6 Fighter: Shot on the Run
    .9. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
    .9 Fighter: Power Critical
    12. . . . : Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged
    12 Fighter: Precision
    15. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
    15 Fighter: Heavy Armor Master
    18. . . . : Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged
    18 Fighter: Heavy Armor Combatant
    
    .4 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Reptilian
    16 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    
    
    Spells
    
    
    1. Jump (13), Longstrider (19)
    Enhancements (80 AP) Deepwood Stalker (36 AP)
    • Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot
      1. Favored Defense III, Increased Empathy I
      2. Improved Weapon Finesse, Skill Boost III
      3. Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter III, Aimed Shot, Dexterity
      4. Killer III, Merciful Shot, Leg Shot, Dexterity
      5. Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Head Shot
    Kensei (26 AP)
    • Kensei Focus: Archery, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge
      1. Extra Action Boost II, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
      2. Weapon Group Specialization
      3. Critical Mastery III, Weapon Group Specialization, Dexterity
      4. Weapon Group Specialization, Dexterity
    Stalwart Defender (14 AP)
    • Toughness, Stalwart Defense
      1. Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery III
      2. Resilient Defense III
      3. Tenacious Defense III
    Dwarf (4 AP)
    • Dwarven Toughness
      1. Dwarven Armor Mastery III
    The Tier 5 abilities of DWS looked better than those of Kensei, so I decided to focus on them, instead. Should be a large improvement since tactics wasn't doing anything for it before.

    An alternative I'm also looking at is a 14 fighter/6 rogue build that uses intelligence for damage, but it's not looking quite as good as this one.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload