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  1. #61
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    So the issue at hand is not that a HP buff doesn't make the combat easier. What we need to look at when giving an opinion on this change is how much easier it gets, whether it is needed at all when other solutions already exist in the game, and what other consequences might follow on from the changes.

    Thanks.
    Well there was this company named Turbine who learned that everyone was taking the Toughness Feat @ level 1 because they needed to be able to survive Epic content they designed at level 20. Now, they felt this limited many builds and placed a burden on choice so they announced that the Toughness Feat would be "auto granted in increments" to players for patch U14 (ok, I may have my Update wrong). The community rejoiced. Praise was washed upon Turbine.

    What happened next was a nightmare unfolded. NPC's began receiving substantial damage boosts to compensate for the players newly found HP's. They received near immunity to Sneak Attack and Critical Hits to compensate for the remarkable weapons PC's were discovering. Monster's gained HP's unheard of for their CR level.

    You ask "What consequences might follow?" We already saw this marching band play in DDO.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeoLionxxx View Post
    "I know Constitution isn't a dump stat, that's why I didn't dump any points into it. Why are you yelling?"
    "Less shinies and more durability!" - How to address the rampant Power Creep introduced into the game Update after Update

  2. #62
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtlsdown View Post
    The real problem is that there is: Normal, Hard, Elite, Reaper1 ... Reaper10 difficulties in this game, and WAY TO FEW players to make this smooth for group play. Even if you divide Reaper into Low/Mid/High that's still 6 different difficulty levels spread across most of the quests, and there are just fewer people playing to make LFM's abundant enough to keep players (especially any new players that might actually give the game a chance) happy.

    If you had:
    Normal (gave benefits like Hard with Normal difficulty)
    Elite (gave benefits like Elite with Elite difficulty)
    Reaper (gave benefits like R8 with R8 difficulty)

    You'd have a better spread in the LFM window for more players (again especially new players).
    I pulled that out of my ..erm..hat, so doubtless it could be adjusted/tweaked better, but you get the idea.

    This: N, H, E, R1, R2, R3, R4, R5, R6, R7, R8, R9, R10 ..... this is just nuts for the player population we have nowadays. AND it doesn't make new blood want to continue with the game. It also causes havoc with balancing things in the game.
    I think the idea is that the power levels vary so much from quest to quest, that having 13 difficulty settings allows you to adjust difficulty to your preference. It's a good idea in a system where game play is about matching preference with content (solo play or group play for challenge), but I am not sure if it is optimal in a setting based on getting max rewards.

    Due to the reaper trees existence and extensive grind, reaper mostly is about getting max rewards per time, which means they need systems geared towards allowing players to do this. The R10 crowd shows us what would have to happen if there were less reaper settings, as they run a set of quests that they are capable of completing on R10 within their RXP/time goals. Players would have to subdivide content on their own to match their skill level if there were less settings.

    I can't say having only three reaper settings (or one) would be better, because it depends on players ability to self-select appropriate quests, and limit play to a subset of content. The R10 crowd can do this, but I'm not sure the R1-R3 or R4-R7 crowd would do this successfully.

    Your current choice is to join a quest a little off your desired preference, run solo, or form your own group. Lack of R1-R4 LFM's probably has much more to to do with ease of soloing low reaper on many builds than having too many difficulty settings. Game design ensured that even moderately skilled players could solo the group and challenge setting.
    Last edited by nokowi; 08-15-2018 at 11:10 AM.
    It's much easier to demonize those providing feedback (whining, childish, bringing the forums down, etc) or minimize their voice (small number, vocal, etc) than to accept the fact that the agro/stealth system just missed the mark.
    A good company learns to listen to their customers.

  3. #63
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Well there was this company named Turbine who learned that everyone was taking the Toughness Feat @ level 1 because they needed to be able to survive Epic content they designed at level 20. Now, they felt this limited many builds and placed a burden on choice so they announced that the Toughness Feat would be "auto granted in increments" to players for patch U14 (ok, I may have my Update wrong). The community rejoiced. Praise was washed upon Turbine.

    What happened next was a nightmare unfolded. NPC's began receiving substantial damage boosts to compensate for the players newly found HP's. They received near immunity to Sneak Attack and Critical Hits to compensate for the remarkable weapons PC's were discovering. Monster's gained HP's unheard of for their CR level.

    You ask "What consequences might follow?" We already saw this marching band play in DDO.
    Whats worse is you walk into a level 15 quest designed when characters were barely reaching 275 HP at that level and can face roll it, but walk into a new quest of the same level and the power level of the mobs is multiplicitively higher. New players who are unaware of when the content was designed will have an expectation of congruence between quest level and difficulty. You tackled an 8th grader in a game of pick up football just fine, now here's a pro rugby player coming at you like an out of control mack truck.

  4. #64
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    The way this typically works as far as game balance is concerned is you have two types (yes there are also hybrids, in betweeners etc).

    1. Innate defense heavy builds. (Stat based defenses. Damage soakers. Mitigators. HP sponge. Meat shield with recovery built in etc....)
    In DDO your high PRR build with some dodge and AC who runs into the room first to get the aggro.

    2. Actively played defense builds (push buttons to activate defenses, circle kiting, economy of movement, uncanny dodge, PRR boosts)
    In DDO your higher dodge build with some PRR, doesnt want aggro. Usually a striker/DPS build.

    When speaking in competitive terms, 1 is OP at the bottom end of skill and underperforms at the top end of skill, while 2 underperforms at the bottom end of skill, but is OP when played by a top end player.

    Solution.
    Give the classic damage soakers some playable defenses which require anticipation and timing, as well as cooldown management. It solves the issue by giving them more survivability, while making people have to learn to play to make it work. This raises the skill ceiling of melee classes without also raising the skill floor, so it avoids becoming a barrier to entry for lower skill players not familiar with the meta. Anything you used to be able to do with a melee you can still do, but higher skilled play is rewarded with better survivability.

    Besides: DDO lacks a good bunker meta. We used to have one for those who were interested in having a character that outlasts opponents rather than rolling another overkill DPS machine. Another niche playstyle that was eroded that could be brought back somewhat if they fixed this issue the right way instead of auto-granting a bunch of HP for toggling a button to the "on" position.

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