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  1. #1
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    Default 12/8 Ranger/Fighter TWF build help

    Hi folks.

    I am doing some playing testing different builds 1-20lvl (this will be my 4th toon, I play each on different server). My next is TWF Fighter with some healing and ranged damage, so I went 12 Ranger splash. Also took Ranger for extra feats, and Ranger Enchantments tree in additional to Fighter Kensai T5. Will be using Heavy Armor for more AC. Also I go with Cleaves to do AOE damage. Looking for some suggestion from expirient players(I am total noob). Also I wander what FE to take. Was thinking about Undead\Giant\Evil outsider.

    I wonder if Tempest Core 4 Deflect Arrow, Kensai Core 3 Strike With No Thoughts, Kensai T5 Keen Edge and Deepwood Stalker Core 4 Sneak Attack crit multiply\threat do stuck?


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 4.37.105
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
    (8 Fighter \ 12 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 306
    Spell Points: 220 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 17
    Reflex: 9
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    26
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               2                     4
    Concentration         4                    26
    Heal                  4                    20
    Jump                  4                    13
    Search                4                    21
    Spot                  4                    20
    Swim                  0                     8
    Use Magic Device      2                    10
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Magical Training
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Melee and Randed Power (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Graceful Death (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Deflect Arrows (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Sprint Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Storm Dancer (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Exotic Weapon Mastery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Opportunity Attack (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike at the Heart (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Weapon Master (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - One With The Blade (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Keen Edge (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Exposing Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Protection (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Protection (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Protection (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Survivalist I (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Empathic Healing (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Empathic Healing (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Survivalist II (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Hunter (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Hunter (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Hunter (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Killer (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Killer (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Killer (Rank 3)

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xBunny View Post
    I wonder if Tempest Core 4 Deflect Arrow, Kensai Core 3 Strike With No Thoughts, Kensai T5 Keen Edge and Deepwood Stalker Core 4 Sneak Attack crit multiply\threat do stuck?
    Competence bonuses don't stack with each other unless they're to different parts of the critical threat range. I.e., the crit multiplier bonus from one class with stack with the crit range bonus of another; but two crit multiplier bonuses won't stack with each other.

    So in your case, the allowable combos would be: Keen Edge + Deflect Arrows; Keen Edge + Strike w/No Thought; Advanced Sneak Attack + Strike w/No Thought; Advanced Sneak Attack + Deflect Arrows. Anything else and you've got redundancy.

    Tier-5 Tempest is better for TWF than tier-5 Kensei; frankly, pure Tempest will out-DPS a ftr/rgr hybrid like that. The one advantage this build could have is Stalwart defensive stance, except you didn't invest in that at all.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
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  3. #3
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    Pure ranger is better.

  4. #4
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaboom2112 View Post
    Pure ranger is better.
    Might be better DPS wise...but My 12/8 Ranger Fighter is more durable than a recent pure ranger I built. I'm forgoing max dodge and evasion for PRR and Armor class. With my recent pure ranger tempest...I found myself jumping out of combat more often than my currecnt build...so maybe the fighter splash does more DPS because he can stay in melee ranger longer.

    At least that was my experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Opening up the casual difficulty for raids would have been a much better solution. Since all the whiners are just complaining about not being able to play through the content they paid for. Just give them their casual difficulty. Since they are just a bunch of casuals.


    Proud Member of the Bunch of Casuals Club!!!!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loromir View Post
    Might be better DPS wise...but My 12/8 Ranger Fighter is more durable than a recent pure ranger I built. I'm forgoing max dodge and evasion for PRR and Armor class. With my recent pure ranger tempest...I found myself jumping out of combat more often than my currecnt build...so maybe the fighter splash does more DPS because he can stay in melee ranger longer.

    At least that was my experience.
    2000 HP (in reaper)
    240 PRR
    27% dodge
    95 Reflex save
    A CSW that hits about 900 in Non reaper.

    was part of the R10 Shrad, only died to the spikes.

    Enlighten me with tales of your durability please.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    If you wanna humble-brag about how bad@$$ your endgame Tempest is, that's fine; but let's not conflate your experience with what the average first-lifer newbie is gonna experience.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  7. #7
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    Lightbulb 15/4/1 Ranger/Fighter/Rogue

    Thanks for yours reply all.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Competence bonuses don't stack with each other unless they're to different parts of the critical threat range. I.e., the crit multiplier bonus from one class with stack with the crit range bonus of another; but two crit multiplier bonuses won't stack with each other.

    So in your case, the allowable combos would be: Keen Edge + Deflect Arrows; Keen Edge + Strike w/No Thought; Advanced Sneak Attack + Strike w/No Thought; Advanced Sneak Attack + Deflect Arrows. Anything else and you've got redundancy.

    Tier-5 Tempest is better for TWF than tier-5 Kensei; frankly, pure Tempest will out-DPS a ftr/rgr hybrid like that. The one advantage this build could have is Stalwart defensive stance, except you didn't invest in that at all.
    I see. My main idea was that those bonuses stack, so I can get more DPS, but now it is more clear to me.


    Okay, I have strong feeling that I am reinventing the weal, but what if go 16/4 Ranger/Fighter(or Pally), to get Tempest T5 and Fighter T4 Salwat for +6 Con, 20% HP +10% Speed(compensation -10 speed from Stalwart Defender Stance) and maybe +50% to armor AC(consider it is heavy armor), sacrificing Deepwod Tree DPS to become more tougher? Might even go with 1 Rogue to get Disable Device skill and max UMD - like 15Rang/4Ftr/1Rog. 15 Rng will also give Cure Serious Wounds and Freedom of Movement. Pally even looks better as I get 5 Lay On Hands, Aura, and some saves + 10% speed, but miss 3 free feats, which I do not need. Will this build be playable?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 4.37.105
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (4 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 15 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 310
    Spell Points: 185 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 11
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    21
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom               10                    10
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                     3
    Concentration         2                    26
    Disable Device        4                    25
    Haggle                4                     3
    Heal                  2                    20
    Jump                  4                     9
    Search                4                    25
    Spot                  4                    23
    Swim                  4                     9
    Tumble                4                     3
    Use Magic Device      4                    22
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Pally version. THF till 9 or even 11 lvl that is why 4Pal level first - to get +3W Cleave and +6 Str and than respec.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 4.37.105
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (4 Paladin \ 1 Rogue \ 15 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 286
    Spell Points: 205 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 18
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    22
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         16                    18
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             10                    10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                     3
    Bluff                 0                     0
    Concentration         2                    27
    Diplomacy             0                     2
    Disable Device        4                    25
    Haggle                4                     4
    Heal                  2                    21
    Hide                  0                    -1
    Intimidate            0                     0
    Jump                  4                    10
    Listen                0                    -1
    Move Silently         0                    -1
    Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     2
    Search                4                    25
    Spellcraft            0                     2
    Spot                  4                    22
    Swim                  4                    10
    Tumble                4                     3
    Use Magic Device      4                    23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Graceful Death (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Deflect Arrows (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Storm Dancer (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Storm Tempest (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - The Growing Storm (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - The Growing Storm (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - The Growing Storm (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dual Perfection (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - A Thousand Cuts (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - A Thousand Cuts (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - A Thousand Cuts (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dance of Death (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dance of Death (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dance of Death (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Constitution (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Constitution (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Exposing Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Protection (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Protection (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Favored Protection (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
    Last edited by xBunny; 07-28-2018 at 02:51 AM.

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    What you're describing is a lot like the original NoYellowBar. It's an old build which predates a lot of the DPS buffage since Update 19. It also predates the armor MRR nerf. As such, I would consider it obsolete; it still works, but it's not as attractive as it once was.

    If you're still committed to the idea of a heavy-armor-wearing Tempest build, I would instead look into the rgr 6 / pal 14 split like NYB 2.0; there's a similar build in my drow paladin thread. It's still kind of an obsolete concept, frankly, but having Holy Sword makes up for not having ranger crit bonuses; while gaining higher saves (Divine Grace) and the various perks of Sacred Defender (i.e., +25 PRR/MRR and +20% HPs for 13 APs) from a deep splash. Basically it's meant for someone who likes using tier-5 Tempest abilities but finds pure ranger too squishy for their tastes, trading DPS for survivability.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  9. #9
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    Seeing how you are leveling to 20 you will never use holysword with all its goodness. Core 4 DWS supplies the critical threat range and core 4 tempest has the multiplier.

    12 Ranger minimum should still have good saves and sacred stance from 8 Pally.

    Edit: Some other considerations are the greater two weapon fighting and the dexterity 17 prerequisite you wont need as its a Ranger class feat at 11.
    If you want cure serious wounds you will need 14 Ranger.
    Could lower Paladin to 5 and take 1 level Rogue early on for locks and traps.
    And you could get more feats from Fighter instead of Pally but i think 14 Ranger has it covered.

    In addition looks like this has everything you wanted for the most part looking at enhancements:
    37 Tempest/21 DWS /22 Sacred D
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Exposing Strike (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Versatile Empathy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Survivalist I (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Empathic Healing (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Survivalist II (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Graceful Death (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Deflect Arrows (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Storm Dancer (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Critical Mastery (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Storm Tempest (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dual Perfection (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dance of Death (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforceed Armor (Rank 2)

    Enhancements are never in stone.

    Oh and cleaves are very ineffective with 2WF.
    Leveling order is easy with 1 Rogue (or Not), 6 Ranger, 3 Pally, 8 more Ranger, 2-3 more Pally.
    Or tough it out and add all the Pally levels last. Just remember the character alignment during creation
    Last edited by Coffey; 07-28-2018 at 04:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post

    If you're still committed to the idea of a heavy-armor-wearing Tempest build . . . .
    You should change your mind since it's a bad idea.

    I kid, a little. The 15 Pally/5 Ranger tempest split is pretty decent. But as stated above, only sees it's best potential above 20
    Last edited by Kaboom2112; 07-28-2018 at 04:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffey View Post
    Oh and cleaves are very ineffective with 2WF.
    Was rereading thread, and got question - only one weapon damage is used in dmg calculation? How to handle AOE with Tempest anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xBunny View Post
    Was rereading thread, and got question - only one weapon damage is used in dmg calculation? How to handle AOE with Tempest anyway?
    Dance of Death, tier 5 in Tempest. Better than cleaving in many situations.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by xBunny View Post
    How to handle AOE with Tempest anyway?
    Part of being a good Tempest is learning how to use these two abilities effectively:
    • Dance of Death: Melee Dual Wielding Attack: Deals +1/+3/+5[W] damage. Your basic attacks when dual wielding strike 2/3/4 targets per swing instead of one for 10 seconds.
    • A Thousand Cuts: Melee Dual Wielding Attack: Deals +1/3/5[W] damage. You gain +10/20/30 Melee Doublestrike and +10/20/30 Melee Power for 15 seconds.

    So while both are active simultaneously, you are quite the little buzzsaw. The downside is the attack "cone" on Dance of Death is narrower than the Cleave feats - maybe about a 90-degree arc? - so you also need to learn how to herd mobs close together in order to get the most DPS out of DoD.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
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    Ok, so if you're doing just 1-20, for racials or heroic tr, and plan to spend no time post 20, the calculations change a lot.
    Further suppose that you're planning on doing the 2 ES sagas for xp and turning them in and largely skipping the 19th level, thus your time in 18+ is pretty short. That means your CORE18s and core 20s are mostly irrelevant. Core 12 does matter.
    In a circumstance like that, it can pay a lot to cherry pick the low hanging stuff in several classes. What you want is a build that matures fast and is durable. Being fast can also be a big boon. Also, most builders here go for precision over power attack. That's very relevant IMO in epics, but in lower levels, power attack is really good. Movement speed is also really good.
    Some notes
    With 3 levels of fighter and 6 AP, you can grab +25 MRR/PRR with a point to spare.
    Spot 6 levels of fighter and you can go for 11 AP in kensai which is really profitable.
    Barbarian has a lot of good stuff really low, especially improved power attack and the movement speed, or if its saves that are killing you, you can cherry pick the paladin KOTC tree.
    If you have zero qualms about visiting Fred, you can not worry too much about your levelling order and swap around feats as your ranger levels autogrant the TWF feats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnie View Post
    Dance of Death, tier 5 in Tempest. Better than cleaving in many situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Part of being a good Tempest is learning how to use these two abilities effectively:
    • Dance of Death: Melee Dual Wielding Attack: Deals +1/+3/+5[W] damage. Your basic attacks when dual wielding strike 2/3/4 targets per swing instead of one for 10 seconds.
    • A Thousand Cuts: Melee Dual Wielding Attack: Deals +1/3/5[W] damage. You gain +10/20/30 Melee Doublestrike and +10/20/30 Melee Power for 15 seconds.

    So while both are active simultaneously, you are quite the little buzzsaw. The downside is the attack "cone" on Dance of Death is narrower than the Cleave feats - maybe about a 90-degree arc? - so you also need to learn how to herd mobs close together in order to get the most DPS out of DoD.
    10 sec damage with 15 sec cooldown looks pretty decent.

    Quote Originally Posted by ValariusK View Post
    Ok, so if you're doing just 1-20, for racials or heroic tr, and plan to spend no time post 20, the calculations change a lot.
    Further suppose that you're planning on doing the 2 ES sagas for xp and turning them in and largely skipping the 19th level, thus your time in 18+ is pretty short. That means your CORE18s and core 20s are mostly irrelevant. Core 12 does matter.
    In a circumstance like that, it can pay a lot to cherry pick the low hanging stuff in several classes. What you want is a build that matures fast and is durable. Being fast can also be a big boon. Also, most builders here go for precision over power attack. That's very relevant IMO in epics, but in lower levels, power attack is really good. Movement speed is also really good.
    Ok thanks, makes sense for my case.

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