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  1. #21
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuneyMunster View Post
    With Astral Plane instead of Ethereal Plane would put max Assassinate DC at 97 and 100 with Tenser and remnant pot. Three ranks into Shadow Dodge instead of KtA and Vistani Knife Fighter IV would put max at 102-103. Im not gonna include the +3 Dex pots that can drop on dice rolls as they are short duration and rare to get. Shadowdancer over Dreadnought is another +2 to +3 DC.


    If was to drop either Ethereal Plane or Harper which would have the biggest impact on dps?
    Ethereal Plane Scion will have the biggest DPS drop. SA damage scales with 150% MP, and with a 3/1 ratio of Hide v Dmg, you could get about +50 dmg. My rogue has a standing hide score of around 140-150. KtA is going to give you 2/1 ratio on INT, and scales with only 100%.

    My rogue gets roughly 375 dmg from Ethereal per hit, and 120 from KtA.

    Also, the 93 is without an assasination specific sentient weapon (+4), a quality 4 Dex item (+2), knifepalm (+2).

    With those bonuses, plus changes you already mentioned, DC could look like this:
    93 (current)
    ——————————-
    +2 from a combo of extra Dex point (van richtens goggles, and 3 from TA)
    +2 from tenser
    +3 from SD Dex score
    +4 from sentient stick
    +2 from quality DEX item
    +2 additional from knifepalm
    +1 bard buff
    +4 from astral over scion

    Those would put you at 113 DC.

    Reaper stat helm would put you at 114
    Last edited by Shadow_Jumper; 07-20-2018 at 09:40 AM.
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  2. #22
    Community Member Dulcimerist's Avatar
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    Weapon Focus is a feat I've considered on my Drow rogue assassin. I'm a returning player, so the Melee Power game mechanic is something I'm still getting a feel for. Does Weapon Focus give a pretty substantial DPS boost? (I took Toughness instead, only to realize that I'd need a +5 CON tome in order to take Epic Toughness.)
    "Swords will cut you wide open!" - Trip Fisk

  3. #23
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post

    Gear:
    Head: Legendary Executioner's Helm
    Goggles: Legendary Greensteel, T2/T3 DEX Skills
    Armor: Legendary Mist-laden Vestment
    Bracers: Legendary Lore-fueled Packbanner
    Ring 1: Legendary Ring of Prowess
    Boots: Legendary Flightfoot Greaves
    Gloves: Molten Silver
    Ring 2: Legendary Ring of Nightfall
    Belt: Legendary Braided Cutcord
    Cloak: Legendary Shadowhail Cloak
    Trinket: Echo of Ravenkind
    Necklace: Slave Lords Sheltering/Deception/Quality PRR
    Do you notice the lack of Healing Amp, Wis, Resistance, Spell Saves, or Dodge in your gear?
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  4. #24
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Do you notice the lack of Healing Amp, Wis, Resistance, Spell Saves, or Dodge in your gear?
    He mentioned in a post on the 1st page that he runs in fixed party/raid groups and the build is not designed around solo play.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimerist View Post
    Weapon Focus is a feat I've considered on my Drow rogue assassin. I'm a returning player, so the Melee Power game mechanic is something I'm still getting a feel for. Does Weapon Focus give a pretty substantial DPS boost? (I took Toughness instead, only to realize that I'd need a +5 CON tome in order to take Epic Toughness.)
    If you pug or solo a lot Imp Feint give a lot more dps and semi-crowd control than weapon focus would give. You need to have high investment into bluff skill. Even on heroic R6 with bluff, imp feint and shiv I have often taken down carnage reapers using those combos before they are able to get a swing on me. I usually open with Assassins Tricks, Haste Boost followed by Bluff, Rapid Slash, Imp Feint, Heartseeker Poison (with weakening strike and deadly strike enhancements), Shiv, Imp Feint or Execute if below 30% hp.
    Last edited by HuneyMunster; 07-21-2018 at 04:02 AM.

  5. #25
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuneyMunster View Post
    He mentioned in a post on the 1st page that he runs in fixed party/raid groups and the build is not designed around solo play.
    It was meant as a real question. Even in a great group there are going to be Fort and Will saves that have to be made, some self-healing to be done, done heals received from someone who isn't spec'ed to heal for several hundred HP on a low-amped target, and monsters swinging at you (or at someone near you).

    Im wondering how much all that is coming up for the OP in real play, and what a gearset for us rogues without pocket healers, buffets, CCers, and aggrieved magnet tanks would look like.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  6. #26
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Do you notice the lack of Healing Amp, Wis, Resistance, Spell Saves, or Dodge in your gear?
    Hey! Sorry for the late response, was traveling.

    The gear list is the basic, if I listed every piece of gear that I swapped into we would have a 5 page build thread.

    Heal Amp; I have a Legendary Affirmation Dagger that I use when the survivability is more useful than DPS

    Resistance; I actually just realized that my gear list is slightly wrong (copied old setup on a different write up). My slavers necklace has resistance 14 on it.

    Dodge; between MTF giving 10%, and using uncanny dodge active, plus avoiding agro I don’t really notice that much of a survivability issue with dodge.

    Spell Saves/Wis; Spell Absorbtion is your friend here. Use it for any caster mob where you think you may have agro. Also for will saves that bypass spell absorb (think strahd spikes), I specifically have a will save sentient stick for those times. 7slots for +14 will save.

    As for healing aspect. I have a thunderforged DI weapon that I slotted 150 devotion on. However, with the DPS this build puts out, and the group that I run with, the best chance I have of saving someone is by killing what is attacking them.

    Standard party that I run with has players that focus more on durability/support; looking more along the lines of such:

    CC
    2x tanky/CC melee
    Divine
    Tank if needed

    What this allows me to do is float on the sides and avoid agro with picking off/destroying threats with assassinate or massive single target dps.

    Hope this answers the Qs!
    Last edited by Shadow_Jumper; 07-21-2018 at 01:22 PM.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Dulcimerist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuneyMunster View Post
    If you pug or solo a lot Imp Feint give a lot more dps and semi-crowd control than weapon focus would give. You need to have high investment into bluff skill. Even on heroic R6 with bluff, imp feint and shiv I have often taken down carnage reapers using those combos before they are able to get a swing on me. I usually open with Assassins Tricks, Haste Boost followed by Bluff, Rapid Slash, Imp Feint, Heartseeker Poison (with weakening strike and deadly strike enhancements), Shiv, Imp Feint or Execute if below 30% hp.
    Is Improved Feint still bugged?
    "Swords will cut you wide open!" - Trip Fisk

  8. #28
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Hey! Sorry for the late response, was traveling.

    The gear list is the basic, if I listed every piece of gear that I swapped into we would have a 5 page build thread.

    Heal Amp; I have a Legendary Affirmation Dagger that I use when the survivability is more useful than DPS

    Resistance; I actually just realized that my gear list is slightly wrong (copied old setup on a different write up). My slavers necklace has resistance 14 on it.

    Dodge; between MTF giving 10%, and using uncanny dodge active, plus avoiding agro I don’t really notice that much of a survivability issue with dodge.

    Spell Saves/Wis; Spell Absorbtion is your friend here. Use it for any caster mob where you think you may have agro. Also for will saves that bypass spell absorb (think strahd spikes), I specifically have a will save sentient stick for those times. 7slots for +14 will save.

    As for healing aspect. I have a thunderforged DI weapon that I slotted 150 devotion on. However, with the DPS this build puts out, and the group that I run with, the best chance I have of saving someone is by killing what is attacking them.

    Standard party that I run with has players that focus more on durability/support; looking more along the lines of such:

    CC
    2x tanky/CC melee
    Divine
    Tank if needed

    What this allows me to do is float on the sides and avoid agro with picking off/destroying threats with assassinate or massive single target dps.

    Hope this answers the Qs!
    Definitely answered my questions. Thank you!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimerist View Post
    Is Improved Feint still bugged?
    Bugged in what way? I picked it up on my rogue recently, and it seems to be working well. I've turned some monsters around, sometimes small groups. The AoE isn't very large, but I have definitely noticed the feat working.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  9. #29
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimerist View Post
    Is Improved Feint still bugged?
    Works well for me as I try to maintain close to max bluff dc while leveling. Its AoE bluff based on bluff skill that also turns monsters that are not red named. Red named still become vulnerable to sneak attack. It doesn't work on any monster that is mindless or can not be bluffed such as oozes, most spiders, most constructs and mindless undead.

  10. #30
    Community Member Dulcimerist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Bugged in what way? I picked it up on my rogue recently, and it seems to be working well. I've turned some monsters around, sometimes small groups. The AoE isn't very large, but I have definitely noticed the feat working.
    I don't know if they fixed it, but this thread has the basic summary:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ter-the-Revamp

    If they fixed it, I would definitely be taking the feat on my rogue.
    "Swords will cut you wide open!" - Trip Fisk

  11. #31
    Community Member FuryFlash's Avatar
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    Unless I missed it somewhere, you don't have a dodge bonus item (other than quality +4 from belt). How do you reach 30 dodge without using items? This has been a major problem in gearing for me - our gearsets are otherwise almost identical and I'm playing a dex-based Tempest.

  12. #32
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimerist View Post
    I don't know if they fixed it, but this thread has the basic summary:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ter-the-Revamp

    If they fixed it, I would definitely be taking the feat on my rogue.
    I am definitely seeing bluffs in a small arc in front of me when I hit an enemy with the attack.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  13. #33
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuryFlash View Post
    Unless I missed it somewhere, you don't have a dodge bonus item (other than quality +4 from belt). How do you reach 30 dodge without using items? This has been a major problem in gearing for me - our gearsets are otherwise almost identical and I'm playing a dex-based Tempest.
    Answered up thread, but short summary, between MTF, my standing dodge, a few from reaper points and a lithe twist, I usually hang around 25-30. Also, I’ve found that between uncanny dodge and smart positioning, I would rather not take dps away from my build.
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  14. #34
    Community Member FuryFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Answered up thread, but short summary, between MTF, my standing dodge, a few from reaper points and a lithe twist, I usually hang around 25-30. Also, I’ve found that between uncanny dodge and smart positioning, I would rather not take dps away from my build.
    I saw the reply earlier on but it didn't fully answer my question. Thanks for clarifying - your cap is 30, but you're often sitting a fair bit lower than that for your actual dodge score. I understand why you don't want to focus on dodge, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something

  15. #35
    Community Member Yvonnel-1's Avatar
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    Nvm^^!
    Last edited by Yvonnel-1; 08-11-2018 at 06:20 AM.
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  16. #36
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Race: Halfling

    Final Unbuffed Non Reaper Stats:
    1590 HP outside reaper
    395 SP
    183 PRR before Blitz
    95 MRR
    123 MP outside reaper/before Blitz
    30% Dodge cap outside reaper

    Do you have a basic breakdown of your HP, PRR, and MRR?

  17. #37
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorrd View Post
    Do you have a basic breakdown of your HP, PRR, and MRR?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    My current PRR breakdown (VKF tree build right now)

    • 10 EDR
    • 2 INH PRR Feat
    • 12 Mist Stalker
    • 10 Vistani Fortune
    • 11 Quality
    • 50 Enhancement
    • 20 Light Armor
    • 20 Profane
    • 30 Blitz
    • 16 Filigree

      181 PRR with no PL/Reaper Point investment

    • 9 Mythic
    • 27 EPL
    • 9 PDK PL
    • 9 Reaper Points

      235 PRR

      Finally, short term buffs:

    • 10 Vistani Fortune Active
    • 30 Mist Stalker Active
    • 10 Tenser's Transformation
    Here is the breakdown from my attempt at a full VKF build. I couldn’t get it to do more dps though so I ended up dropping it. However the only things that change are the T5 VKF prr, and the Core.

    My current build (only change is dropping deification warding for dire charge) hits 240 prr without tenser’s (I’ve gained a lot of reaper points that I’ve pumped into the defense tree to max out prr there).

    I get 45 mrr from the sheltering SL necklace.

    HP is with just echo of ravenkind for the +19 Con, and +9 insightful on the bracers.
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  18. #38

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    hey Shadow, I have been toying with an alternative approach to epic assassin although I lack your endgame and raid experience. I have found that the fury melee knockdowns are awesome for single target takedowns of non-rednameds which has been very helpful against reapers (it works on them). Fury of the Wild is not a great destiny (lousy mp) but it comes with Sense Weakness against helpless enemies. So the idea is to focus on helpless DPS via Sense Weakness and No Mercy from the TA tree and boost defenses a bit with a high dodge and improved defensive roll.

    AP:
    Assassin 43 (or 42 for that one more AP to get a vistani core): 3 in light armor mastery gets +6 max dodge bonus on armor and +3 max dodge
    TA: 27 (+4 dex, +3 dodge, +7 max dodge (including kip up), No mercy T3
    These two total +10 to max dodge, +6 on armor

    last 10 AP are flexible: one could spend them in vistani for doublestrike boosts, or even Falconry for +3 assassinate and that odd bird trip (which, if it lands, renders them helpless too); or even 8 for KtA. I think the vistani route is the best since you get the rapid attack doublestrike as well as doublestrike mainhand and offhand; however, it seems that some builds are getting over 100% melee doublestrike (none of mine...). I suppose one could put them in mechanic as well for W&S mastery or improved traps, or maybe up a racial tree like halfling with various dodge/max dodge boosts.

    This would be a HUGE hit in DPS, in particular against red nameds, but one would gain in helpless damage, not sure how much to close the gap. I have not done the numbers but the fast, automatic takedown of a reaper is a huge help and with the many mobs now resistant to assassinate, a fury shot is just awesome. POW and then they drop like a fly. You can even fury shot an assassinate.

    I have been soloing a lot with Fury of the Wild, isolating reapers with a fury shot. I know you are not making a solo build but this is just to put it out there.
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  19. #39
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    hey Shadow, I have been toying with an alternative approach to epic assassin although I lack your endgame and raid experience. I have found that the fury melee knockdowns are awesome for single target takedowns of non-rednameds which has been very helpful against reapers (it works on them). Fury of the Wild is not a great destiny (lousy mp) but it comes with Sense Weakness against helpless enemies. So the idea is to focus on helpless DPS via Sense Weakness and No Mercy from the TA tree and boost defenses a bit with a high dodge and improved defensive roll.

    AP:
    Assassin 43 (or 42 for that one more AP to get a vistani core): 3 in light armor mastery gets +6 max dodge bonus on armor and +3 max dodge
    TA: 27 (+4 dex, +3 dodge, +7 max dodge (including kip up), No mercy T3
    These two total +10 to max dodge, +6 on armor

    last 10 AP are flexible: one could spend them in vistani for doublestrike boosts, or even Falconry for +3 assassinate and that odd bird trip (which, if it lands, renders them helpless too); or even 8 for KtA. I think the vistani route is the best since you get the rapid attack doublestrike as well as doublestrike mainhand and offhand; however, it seems that some builds are getting over 100% melee doublestrike (none of mine...). I suppose one could put them in mechanic as well for W&S mastery or improved traps, or maybe up a racial tree like halfling with various dodge/max dodge boosts.

    This would be a HUGE hit in DPS, in particular against red nameds, but one would gain in helpless damage, not sure how much to close the gap. I have not done the numbers but the fast, automatic takedown of a reaper is a huge help and with the many mobs now resistant to assassinate, a fury shot is just awesome. POW and then they drop like a fly. You can even fury shot an assassinate.

    I have been soloing a lot with Fury of the Wild, isolating reapers with a fury shot. I know you are not making a solo build but this is just to put it out there.
    Sorry for the late reply, however I do have a few thoughts on it.

    I cannot speak specifically to high skull solos. I did swap to S.D. for an r10 solo of Madness Crowds, however the sole reason for that was a need to distract mobs by charming them. I cannot say how useful a fury strike would be in solo content, and I do agree the ability to trigger a Fury strike and eliminate a mob would be useful.

    For the knockdown affect I would recommend twistin Balanced Attacks (T3 Primal), and if grouping I run Sense Weakness twisted. I use Symmetric Strikes (T4 Primal) over Sense Weakness if I’m raiding.

    However, for group play I would highly recommend against fury. Generally you will be with a CC caster of some kind, and other melee with dire charge. You would actually gain 20% more helplessness damage by dropping acrobat 30% and running Legendary Dreadnought due to the 50% helplessness when boosting. You could run both, however mobs die quickly enough even on R10, and I would recommend focusing on more overall DPS than specifically mob dps.
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Sorry for the late reply, however I do have a few thoughts on it.

    I cannot speak specifically to high skull solos. I did swap to S.D. for an r10 solo of Madness Crowds, however the sole reason for that was a need to distract mobs by charming them. I cannot say how useful a fury strike would be in solo content, and I do agree the ability to trigger a Fury strike and eliminate a mob would be useful.

    For the knockdown affect I would recommend twistin Balanced Attacks (T3 Primal), and if grouping I run Sense Weakness twisted. I use Symmetric Strikes (T4 Primal) over Sense Weakness if I’m raiding.

    However, for group play I would highly recommend against fury. Generally you will be with a CC caster of some kind, and other melee with dire charge. You would actually gain 20% more helplessness damage by dropping acrobat 30% and running Legendary Dreadnought due to the 50% helplessness when boosting. You could run both, however mobs die quickly enough even on R10, and I would recommend focusing on more overall DPS than specifically mob dps.
    I hadn’t run LD in ages & forgot about the helpless bonus dps when an action boost is active. With action boosts from reaper tree, that is even more compelling.
    We 2-personed Rusted Blades on R10 at level but PRR was the issue with Boss fight. Unti then, my fury takedowns were key. But I see you have a solid team at cap & how this approach is in synergy with them.
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