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Thread: RXP Calculation

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    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    Default RXP Calculation

    Hello all,
    a friend of mine is working on a list for rxp/min for every quest.

    He followed the calculations for rxp on the wiki but some things don't add up. Please see screenshots and comments.
    Thank you.






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  2. #2
    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    Is it possible to get an answer from official side (SSG)? I think calculations on (r)xp should be transparent.
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    Community Member Rys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitusOvid View Post
    Is it possible to get an answer from official side (SSG)? I think calculations on (r)xp should be transparent.
    I noticed that the RXP is often off even between two players running the same quest in the same time with the same bonuses. Sometimes it is same, sometimes it is off by few points. Didn't find out why is that either.

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    Ignoring rounding issues I would draw these conclusions:

    1. The EXP shown in the XP report is the EXP actually received (except daily is missing sometimes).
    2. Length modifier (according to wiki 0.8 short, to 1.4 very long) is not considered for the base EXP in the report.
    3. Quests that are not medium reward significantly more or less experience than they should according to the formula. The current formula is: Base Reaper XP = 50 + 3 * (quest level on normal) * (number of skulls) * Length bonus (0.8 for short, 1 for medium, 1.2 for long, 1.4 for very long).
    If we were to say = (50 + 3 * level * skulls ) * Length bonus it might work. In the screens given, we are still some 3 points off for the long one and over 6 points for the short one. But in any case we are much closer to what should be.
    Either way, the formula as it is on the Wiki is wrong.
    4. Also, tomes are not applied (as can be seen). Even if it says so on the wiki. Logically, there is tomes of heroic and epic exp, but not of reaper exp.

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    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    there were threads on this on the forum around release but i can't find them with that friggin search.
    if someone knows the links, please send me a message or post here pls.

    Devs might chime in anytime they want.
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    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    I ran some quests last night and compared RXP with fellow party members. We got different RXP on the same buffs and tomes/pots. This gets weirder everytime. Is there a random factor in this?
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    The number in the report is before the following

    - xp pot
    - ship buff
    -vip bonus
    - voice of the master

    if I have all these things I get approximately 170% of what is shown after completion.

    for the tomb quest it is

    50 + ( 3[static] * 1[skull] * 4[level on norm]) = 62

    62* .8 = 49.6

    49.6 * 3.65 = 181.04

    difference of 2 is rounding.

    poosible reason:

    62 * .8 = 50 rounded

    50 * 3.65= 183 rounded as shown on report (182.5 unrounded)

    then for actual experience 182.5 [unrounded] * 1.69999999 = 310 rounded

    the only number I can’t reconcile is the weekend bonus. It’s included in the report but isn’t based on base or total after bonuses.
    Last edited by slarden; 06-27-2018 at 07:28 AM.

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    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathanek View Post
    Ignoring rounding issues I would draw these conclusions...

    2. Length modifier (according to wiki 0.8 short, to 1.4 very long) is not considered for the base EXP in the report.
    This has been mentioned before.

    I think the only thing preventing a deletion of this (incorrect?) statement from the Wiki is a desire to have it confirmed, either by a Dev, or "proven" empirically, somehow. (Altho' that last seems to be close to happening by consensus, it's not the same reliability.)

    Can veteran Reaper players (plural, preferably) confirm that the stated "length of quest" is definitively and demonstrably not (currently) a factor in the (current) RXP formula?

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    Hey Slarden,

    I assume you meant stand your ground, not the tomb quest, since you used the 0.8 length factor and that is the short one?

    What I don't understand is also what you mean with weekend bonus. There is no weekend bonus in the report.

    Other than that I guess your calculation explains it a bit better. In that case I would assume that, as I wrote before:
    - Tome is not included
    - The length factor applies to the total formula rather than just part of it (it is applied after the addition in the formula).

    The original screenshots were made by me, thanks to Titus btw for posting this. I originally didn't want to get involved in the forum, but when it was posted and commented, I felt I should add my conclusions as I then did above.

    My main purpose was to point this out and also get it mentioned towards whoever works on the ddowiki project. This information is, in my opinion, wrong on the wiki. But since I neither know anyone who works with the wiki nor do I know the first thing about adding something there, I went this way. Also I wasn't as sure about my conclusions. (SO, any wiki people here, please take note of this! )

    In any case, further thoughts are much appreciated; I'd really like to get to the bottom of this.

    Thanks all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathanek View Post
    Hey Slarden,

    I assume you meant stand your ground, not the tomb quest, since you used the 0.8 length factor and that is the short one?
    Yes I apologize I meant stand your ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathanek View Post
    Hey Slarden,

    What I don't understand is also what you mean with weekend bonus. There is no weekend bonus in the report.
    All I meant there is on weekends when there is an rxp bonus I can't reconcile the numbers. If I compare a quest like Into the Mists where I get the same rxp every time - I do get more on bonus weekend but that difference isn't 20% of base or 20% of the total. The number on the xp report is bigger but the actual rxp earned is still approximately 170%of what shows on the xp report with all the boosts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathanek View Post

    Other than that I guess your calculation explains it a bit better. In that case I would assume that, as I wrote before:
    - Tome is not included
    - The length factor applies to the total formula rather than just part of it (it is applied after the addition in the formula).
    Yes I am sure tome doesn't help and it kind of makes sense since it only boosts specific experience types (heroic or epic). I always assumed they would introduce reaper tomes or reaper xp pots, but it's either too much work vs. the money they anticipate or they don't want to shorten the ride so people have something to do for a long time.

    Wiki shows this:

    Base Reaper XP = 50 + 3 * (quest level on normal) * (number of skulls) * Length bonus (0.8 for short, 1 for medium, 1.2 for long, 1.4 for very long)

    But this would be more accurate

    Base Reaper XP = (50 + 3 * (quest level on normal) * (number of skulls)) * Length bonus (0.8 for short, 1 for medium, 1.2 for long, 1.4 for very long)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathanek View Post

    My main purpose was to point this out and also get it mentioned towards whoever works on the ddowiki project. This information is, in my opinion, wrong on the wiki. But since I neither know anyone who works with the wiki nor do I know the first thing about adding something there, I went this way. Also I wasn't as sure about my conclusions. (SO, any wiki people here, please take note of this! )

    In any case, further thoughts are much appreciated; I'd really like to get to the bottom of this.

    Thanks all
    Great project! Thank you.
    Last edited by slarden; 06-27-2018 at 06:01 PM.

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    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    I would be thrilled about some official feedback. So far I was unable to get a response here or through a message to Cordovan.
    I would like to update the wiki but with facts and not assumptions.

    If this is the wong place to post something like this, let me know a better place to reach someone who can give out some information on this subject.
    Thank you.
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    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    How does the formula get adjusted for under-level or over-level characters running a quest?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitusOvid View Post
    I ran some quests last night and compared RXP with fellow party members. We got different RXP on the same buffs and tomes/pots. This gets weirder everytime. Is there a random factor in this?
    have you factored in those who died vs those who didn't that still get the extra 10% xp?
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    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrael View Post
    have you factored in those who died vs those who didn't that still get the extra 10% xp?
    Yeah, I/we did. We tried all kinds of factors to get to the results but so far no luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    How does the formula get adjusted for under-level or over-level characters running a quest?
    There is a Reaper experience over-level penalty (from the base level of a dungeon or raid) as follows:

    +1 - 20%
    +2 - 50% (typical Bravery Bonus maximum level for Heroic)
    +3 - 70%
    +4 - 80%
    +5 - 90%
    +6 - 95%

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Reaper#Experience
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathanek View Post
    Hey Slarden,

    I assume you meant stand your ground, not the tomb quest, since you used the 0.8 length factor and that is the short one?

    What I don't understand is also what you mean with weekend bonus. There is no weekend bonus in the report.

    Other than that I guess your calculation explains it a bit better. In that case I would assume that, as I wrote before:
    - Tome is not included
    - The length factor applies to the total formula rather than just part of it (it is applied after the addition in the formula).

    The original screenshots were made by me, thanks to Titus btw for posting this. I originally didn't want to get involved in the forum, but when it was posted and commented, I felt I should add my conclusions as I then did above.

    My main purpose was to point this out and also get it mentioned towards whoever works on the ddowiki project. This information is, in my opinion, wrong on the wiki. But since I neither know anyone who works with the wiki nor do I know the first thing about adding something there, I went this way. Also I wasn't as sure about my conclusions. (SO, any wiki people here, please take note of this! )

    In any case, further thoughts are much appreciated; I'd really like to get to the bottom of this.

    Thanks all
    I'd be happy to change incorrect info on the wiki, provided we have the correct info. This doesn't seem to be the case... Tomb of the Immortal Heart seems to factor in your tome and the RXP awarded seems to be "mostly" in line with the calculations (2 points off is troubling though).
    The other quests were ran with a gold seal hireling. While level 3, she may have something to do with the discrepancy in the RXP. Applying a -20% penalty however results in lower xp numbers so I have no idea what that discrepancy may be.

    Bottomline, there are definitely bugs with the display, the in-game calculations, the interaction of hirelings and possibly the formula (Note that the formula posted on the wiki was the one provided by the devs). To figure out what are the bugs involved and mention them on the wiki would take more testing in a more controlled environment:
    - Play several quests at the same level with the same buffs at the same time period without a hireling.
    - Play several quests at varying levels to see if quest level contains a bug.
    - Play quests with and without a tome.
    - Play quests with and without a hireling.

    As for a dev answer, I wouldn't expect too much. Last time Sev answered about the RXP calculations, there were all kinds of confusions. He said that modified quest level was taked into account for the penalty (which was incorrect). He said the penalty was not applied on the total RXP but was another modifier in line with conquest (which was incorrect). He said tomes and elixirs did not apply (which was incorrect?). he said conquest and all other bonuses did not apply (which was incorrect). I'm sure there are several memos about how RXP works in the SSG offices and I doubt any of them mirrors the actual code.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faltout View Post
    I'd be happy to change incorrect info on the wiki, provided we have the correct info. This doesn't seem to be the case... Tomb of the Immortal Heart seems to factor in your tome and the RXP awarded seems to be "mostly" in line with the calculations (2 points off is troubling though).
    The other quests were ran with a gold seal hireling. While level 3, she may have something to do with the discrepancy in the RXP. Applying a -20% penalty however results in lower xp numbers so I have no idea what that discrepancy may be.

    Bottomline, there are definitely bugs with the display, the in-game calculations, the interaction of hirelings and possibly the formula (Note that the formula posted on the wiki was the one provided by the devs). To figure out what are the bugs involved and mention them on the wiki would take more testing in a more controlled environment:
    - Play several quests at the same level with the same buffs at the same time period without a hireling.
    - Play several quests at varying levels to see if quest level contains a bug.
    - Play quests with and without a tome.
    - Play quests with and without a hireling.

    As for a dev answer, I wouldn't expect too much. Last time Sev answered about the RXP calculations, there were all kinds of confusions. He said that modified quest level was taked into account for the penalty (which was incorrect). He said the penalty was not applied on the total RXP but was another modifier in line with conquest (which was incorrect). He said tomes and elixirs did not apply (which was incorrect?). he said conquest and all other bonuses did not apply (which was incorrect). I'm sure there are several memos about how RXP works in the SSG offices and I doubt any of them mirrors the actual code.
    I got pulled in on this because Lathanek has a really good project going. And I feel RXP calculations need to be transparent. But my effort in this is limited. I won't do the work of the devs. It can't be that hard to response to this thread. I would work with them to solve the problem but with no reactions whatsoever from official side I won't waste my time. And considering the lack of reactions altogether from official side to subjects concerning the game and a recent dev post my willingness to contribute is close to zero.

    Thanks to all who took the time to answer and contribute here.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Kinda off on a tangent, but I think the best rxp/per minute is hands down LHoX.

    Obviously it cant be run multiple times if you don't want to chug timers, but a solid short man party can reliably do it in 7-8 mins. I got 14k on 55% raid bonus weekend without a pot for a sub 8 min completion time.

    Required roles would be:

    AC/PRR tank
    Healer
    Charmer

    Everyone else just pikes and gets rxp :P
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faltout View Post
    I'd be happy to change incorrect info on the wiki, provided we have the correct info. This doesn't seem to be the case... Tomb of the Immortal Heart seems to factor in your tome and the RXP awarded seems to be "mostly" in line with the calculations (2 points off is troubling though).
    The other quests were ran with a gold seal hireling. While level 3, she may have something to do with the discrepancy in the RXP. Applying a -20% penalty however results in lower xp numbers so I have no idea what that discrepancy may be.

    Bottomline, there are definitely bugs with the display, the in-game calculations, the interaction of hirelings and possibly the formula (Note that the formula posted on the wiki was the one provided by the devs). To figure out what are the bugs involved and mention them on the wiki would take more testing in a more controlled environment:
    - Play several quests at the same level with the same buffs at the same time period without a hireling.
    - Play several quests at varying levels to see if quest level contains a bug.
    - Play quests with and without a tome.
    - Play quests with and without a hireling.

    As for a dev answer, I wouldn't expect too much. Last time Sev answered about the RXP calculations, there were all kinds of confusions. He said that modified quest level was taked into account for the penalty (which was incorrect). He said the penalty was not applied on the total RXP but was another modifier in line with conquest (which was incorrect). He said tomes and elixirs did not apply (which was incorrect?). he said conquest and all other bonuses did not apply (which was incorrect). I'm sure there are several memos about how RXP works in the SSG offices and I doubt any of them mirrors the actual code.
    Main error on wiki was a pair of missing parentheses, but it's been corrected since the earlier discussion.

    Tomes of xp are factored into regular experience (heroic and epic if you have the tome), but not rxp. That's not something uncertain at this point and is easily verified with a dual box without a tome. The only things that are uncertain for me at this point is the rounding and how weekend bonuses are computed. Otherwise the only wild card is what multiplier the devs chose for quest length, but you can back into that.

  20. #20
    Community Member Mglaxix's Avatar
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    Default A working Rxp Calculator

    Ok, I think I have worked out the calculations in a spread sheet. I would like a couple of people to send it to after I clean it up a bit for some testing.

    It covers Reaper Exp

    Based on

    Quest Level
    Quest Length
    Over-Level Penalty
    First Time Bonus
    Bravery Bonus
    Streak Bonus
    Daily Bonus
    Kills
    Traps
    Secret Doors
    Breakables
    Flawless
    Power-Level
    Late Penalty
    Exp Tomes
    VIP
    Ship Buff
    VoM
    Event Bonus
    Group Bonus
    Skull Bonus

    I think I have covered all available bonuses to Reaper Exp.

    This will only include perhaps a Dozen or so Quests of Various Levels.

    I hope to have it ready by this weekend 9/14/18.
    Main 100+ Lives ( 44x HTR 15x ITR 36x ETR 12x RTR 55/154 Reaper Points ), Jynxer - Completionist ( 18x HTR 5x ITR 6x ETR 22/154 ), SoulDuster - Completionist - Paladin ( 15x HTR 3x ETR 17/154 ), 7 @ 4th life, 1 @ 3rd life, 2 @ 2nd life.

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