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  1. #81
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    I believe that there is a dummy on board all guild ships. Well, maybe not the smaller ones. They tend to be good for recording how much dps you're doing. Unfortunately, the guild ship 'area' is public so no spells/feats/active enhancements will work. So, maybe the best thing would be to just test your dps in dungeons. Remember that your dps is relative to the difficulty of the quest. For example, you can't expect to be hitting above the 1,000 mark all the time in r10.


    To improve your dps... Well, that just comes down to the weapons that you use, the gear that you wear, the enhancements that you take, reaper points (in Reaper Mode, obviously ), build stats and past life feats. As far as I know, these are the main things that can be altered in order to improve your dps. Remember though, dps is not everything. You won't be abe to tank those tough endgame, purple-named bosses if your constitution/AC is really low.

    Hopefully this was of some use to you. Have a good day

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Actually that's your only real test. Unless you never leave the dojo, mobs fight back, so defenses, self-healing, movement speed, and CC are part of real dungeon dps performance.

    Dungeon clear time of Trackers Trap on a difficulty that is dangerous which includes a melee and a caster red named, plus some constructs to beat on and a mix of mob types and a few traps is probably the best overall type of dps test.
    I understand what you're saying. You would not be measuring DPS though. It would be how good a player and their character are when faced with a particular challenge. DPS is a component of General ability. This Thread was not about General ability.
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  3. #83
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye View Post
    I understand what you're saying. You would not be measuring DPS though. It would be how good a player and their character are when faced with a particular challenge. DPS is a component of General ability. This Thread was not about General ability.
    right, it was about a ballpark idea of the potential dps a character could have in a controlled one on one situation using ducks in a row clickies. the problem is that players think their characters dps should be able to maintain it all through a quest and things like player ability, de-buffs, playing with others, buffs you normally don't get, fighting more than one mob at a time, DR, PRR, and lots of other variables are dismissed with testing. you get more accurate testing in quest scenarios than you do standing in place beating on dummies and beating on 1 mob constantly bluffed with no real element of danger around you.
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  4. #84
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    Sometimes you want to know what your max potential is under perfect circumstances.

    Knowing that can help you tweak your build for specific goals.

    Also, if you group and play with other players, it is possible to achieve those circumstances even in regular adventuring (provided the group of people you are playing with are actual team players working to maximize the party's efficiency, working with each other's strengths and weaknesses, rather than just a bunch of people playing as if they were soloing with other people around).

    Also, some people find it fun to figure out such things.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    right, it was about a ballpark idea of the potential dps a character could have in a controlled one on one situation using ducks in a row clickies. the problem is that players think their characters dps should be able to maintain it all through a quest and things like player ability, de-buffs, playing with others, buffs you normally don't get, fighting more than one mob at a time, DR, PRR, and lots of other variables are dismissed with testing. you get more accurate testing in quest scenarios than you do standing in place beating on dummies and beating on 1 mob constantly bluffed with no real element of danger around you.
    So what's your dps?
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye View Post
    So what's your dps?
    Redacted

  7. #87
    Community Member Morroiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaboom2112 View Post
    I haven't crunched the numbers, is THFing better as well?
    Yes. It isn't the same margin but its still so significantly better that any play who says otherwise - I, personally, would consider to be an idiot about the game's mechanics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    A new harder difficulty is likely to just be that: harder, without giving commensurate power...Ideally, at the very hardest edge of difficulty, we would not know how long it would take until all quests are completed on that difficulty.

  8. #88
    Community Member Niminae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    My number one piece of advice is to drop Frankenstein builds. At no point on a dps build should you be worried about spell DCs.
    Seriously. To paraphrase Yoda: Do, or do not. There is no 'do all.'

    If you can hit DCs in elite content, why are you swinging a sword? Just keep casting your DC spells! If you can't hit DCs in elite content, then why are you bothering with DC casting? Go DPS caster (shiradi is one example of a DPS caster that is often attacked as being OP but hasn't been even, oh, 5th tier? for literally years) with your attempt at a gish build. Or go Artificer, they at least have some built-in backup in the ranged DPS department for their casting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    My number one piece of advice is to drop Frankenstein builds. At no point on a dps build should you be worried about spell DCs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyfiel View Post
    Sound advice if you want people like me to quit the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    Great thread! I love seeing the insights from the DPS specialists. I feel like we don't see this stuff on the main forums as much as we used to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    This is part of why. You try to offer advice and get told you’re ruining the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyfiel View Post
    Point to anything I said that could be taken as you are "ruining the game".


    Come on... You didn't use the exact words "ruin the game," but claiming that having to abandon your gimp builds in order to do decent DPS would make you quit the game is a very clear message to that intent. And those are the words that you used which can really easily be "taken as you are "ruining the game.""

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyfiel View Post
    There is a group of people who play a certain way and anything different from that is considered wrong.
    No. Just no. You have misdirected the close-mindedness present in this thread entirely.

    Allow me to rephrase:

    There is a group of people who play a certain way and don't want to change and don't care to understand why their builds aren't performing well, and anything different from that is considered ruining the game for them.

    If understanding how the game works and adapting your play style to perform better based on that understanding is "ruining the game" for you, this might not be the game for you. But I'm not sure what might be the game for such a person. They appear to want good game performance without any effort at all at understanding how the game works. And I am not aware of a game which exists which rewards a lack of understanding with a high performance. This is true from chess to checkers to any card game you might want to name and to any video game you might want to name. If you refuse to modify your behavior based on the mechanics of the game, you'll never be a winning player. Ever.

    When you don't know how game mechanics work, if you don't care to know how game mechanics work, and if when you are told why anyway you fall back on "I'd rather quit!*" as your reason for not changing your behavior, you are not someone who will ever be able to be helped on the forums. Because you've closed your mind to any input informing you of why the game mechanics simply do not support your play style.


    * And again, not your exact words. But since you seem to be concerned with specifics you did say you would "quit the game" if your "dps build should [not need to] be worried about spell DCs." So, yeah...

  9. #89
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    To me the kobold test has always been kind of a meaningless test since it doesn't fight back.

    Best way to measure a character's strength is by seeing how long it takes to clear the dungeon solo on a consistent difficulty rating - which likely varies by person. That effectively measures how long it took to do enough damage to complete - there is no better measure because this factors in things like having to retreat to avoid dying, running out of spell points/clickies on some builds, using shrines to reset resources, etc. Of course you have to factor in things like immunities that might make one character weaker than the other in just that dungeon - but there are other dungeons that can be tested.

    I would rather have a character that kills a static kobold slower, but completes a solo dungeon faster.

    At least for me this is the way I compare strengths of my characters and I also use this to test the same build on characters with differences in accomplishments (past lifes, gear, etc.). And being able to skip some fights is something to be considered as well. That's better than finishing a fight faster in my opinion.

    For me lately I've been testing into the mists 3 to 5 skull solo with chest optional to test my level 30 characters, because it's such a quick quest and no class is especially disadvantaged in there. Difference in reaper points and past lifes makes it harder to measure pure build than ever before because so much strength comes from accumulated power now. Turning off reaper points is a bad answer because it's so expensive to test that way.
    Last edited by slarden; 06-19-2018 at 04:33 AM.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    To me the kobold test has always been kind of a meaningless test since it doesn't fight back.
    The kobold test is good for getting an idea of how your build performs relative to your previous build(s) and how your build/play ability performs relative to someone else's doing the same.
    It is a very useful way of testing tweaks to your own build on a like-for-like basis, and give you an idea of potential. If you know "Jim's build has a potential DPS of 15,000,000 sustainable over 5 minutes" you can test yourself to find the build choices that work for you to allow you to do the same... and that's about the limit of it.
    I think that having a quest with multiple statues/dummies with different racial characteristics/vulnerabilities/defences would be good to allow this sort of testing, but this is definitely not the be-all-and-end-all of DPS evaluation.
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  11. #91
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    To me the kobold test has always been kind of a meaningless test since it doesn't fight back.
    I get what you’re saying. But the DPS test kobold is about more than just showing the absolute min/maxxed builds that could theoretically do insane DPS but have less than 1k hp etc etc.

    Most games have instances that single out various areas of skill in that game so that you can work to improve that aspect of the game. What we have found true over all these tests is that player skill/knowledge of their build is BY FAR one of the most significant factors in their DPS test. Simply knowing what order to activate your boosts and ability’s can mean the difference between 12k and 18k.

    A dojo kobold would give you the ability to single out one aspect of this game (in this case DPS), give you an accurate time on your DPS number, and consistently allow you to get more fluid at using your build to its maximum ability.

    As for the whole “it’s lamma DPS, not real DPS” arguement, all of these builds, disregarding the few low life alts, were that player’s main, geared character that they were experienced playing. The 18k DPS tempest regularly runs r5 end game duo. The rogue literally stepped out of r4 strahd and ran the test. These are not inane players who are maxing DPS at the cost of other abilities to try and look good. They’re players who want to get the most bang for their buck, and want to know how much damage their build actually does so as to know where to focus their efforts on improving the build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye View Post
    I understand what you're saying. You would not be measuring DPS though. It would be how good a player and their character are when faced with a particular challenge. DPS is a component of General ability. This Thread was not about General ability.
    Basically this.
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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    To me the kobold test has always been kind of a meaningless test since it doesn't fight back.

    Best way to measure a character's strength is by seeing how long it takes to clear the dungeon solo on a consistent difficulty rating.
    I would disagree with this, because I think it depends on what you're going for. If you're trying to maximize your dungeon clear speed, then I agree 100%, test in a dungeon you know well that has little variance between runs, and that also punishes you for flaws in your build. I tend to baseline my builds in Slavers 1 as it's easy to get to, has large mob packs which test my AoE trash clearing, has a mix of ranged and melee, and punishes bad defenses. If I were building a raw DPS toon that was meant to be a raid boss killer, however, Slavers 1 solo would be a bad baseline.

    I think testing solo dungeon clear times test a character's ability to do AoE DPS to trash. It really doesn't test red named boss mob DPS in any meaningful way at all. The DPS check against Gardak is a better test of pure one on one DPS. Go in with a tank, a healer, and yourself and measure not only how long it takes to kill, but also what kind of agro you generate and how much you can get away with before you're pulling Gardak off the tank, etc.

  13. #93
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    Lamania's up, go kill some Kobolds.

    Make sure you have an Improved deception item equipped - losing Sneak attach on a high percentage of swings kills your DPS.

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