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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morroiel View Post
    Reduce buff durations down to 10. Allow use of extend spell metamagic - for a total feat driven length of 20 seconds.

    I'd like a reason to take the metamagic feat (its been YEARS since i've taken it, practically since the last spell pass).
    That is a fair point to make a metemagic useful. Literally haven't had extend since they made displace self only. However, extend should not be only relevant to fvs in this tree. It should be made relevant again to all caster types.

  2. #182
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    Default PMs/undead PCs

    I can get not going the beacon of despair option this late in the game. But I am concerned about the fact that PM healing is left out of the equation yet again. When I was in the PC I brought up a list of undead related healing, and other discussion points.

    One of those involved Warpriest's/War Soul's Ameliorating Strike being considered for friendly undead healing, this was commented on as being considered by a dev at that time, is the idea of any divine healing ability being able to similarly heal undead PCs being dropped?

    This was one of my major reasons for suggesting the Beacon of Despair back on the PC and the current revamped version I posted in this thread to match the current version of the Beacon of Hope. It would allow divines to party with and accommodate PMs without having to swap a whole bunch of spells (which isn't easy for a FVS compared to a cleric). It'd also give us debuffs rather than buffs.
    Last edited by edrein; 06-14-2018 at 11:00 AM.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    [*]Added clarifying text to the Beacons about how they affect Undead. They hurt Undead at the same values they heal, with a Will save for half damage.
    Thank you so much for making this change and acting on our suggestions! I'm glad you were able to pull this off

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by edrein View Post
    This was one of my major reasons for suggesting the Beacon of Despair back on the PC and the current revamped version I posted in this thread to match the current version of the Beacon of Hope. It would allow divines to party with and accommodate PMs without having to swap a whole bunch of spells (which isn't easy for a FVS compared to a cleric). It'd also give us debuffs rather than buffs.
    I can think of a compromise that would help heal undead:

    Add an ability: Favored Souls are granted Heal as an extra automatic spell slot at level six somewhere in the tree?
    (Heal sla is sort of doing that already)

    This opens up a slot for Harm (which is the best undead healing spell divines can take).



    Inflict wounds has a range of close and a cone of facing target requirement making it a poor choice.
    Mass inflict is a little better, but how many times does one have multiple undead in a party?

    Harm does have the facing target problem, but a healing build could forgo cometfall or blade barrier?

    Fortunately Pale Masters have fairly good self healing.
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 06-14-2018 at 05:33 PM.

  5. #185
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    by the way, will you adjust divine's old spells? for example, stalwart pact is decent to use, but Its temp hp is too low around epics. and higher spells are something weird and less-effective to use. divine's new path is good, but their base spells need to have your interest.
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  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by edrein View Post
    I can get not going the beacon of despair option this late in the game. But I am concerned about the fact that PM healing is left out of the equation yet again. When I was in the PC I brought up a list of undead related healing, and other discussion points.

    One of those involved Warpriest's/War Soul's Ameliorating Strike being considered for friendly undead healing, this was commented on as being considered by a dev at that time, is the idea of any divine healing ability being able to similarly heal undead PCs being dropped?

    This was one of my major reasons for suggesting the Beacon of Despair back on the PC and the current revamped version I posted in this thread to match the current version of the Beacon of Hope. It would allow divines to party with and accommodate PMs without having to swap a whole bunch of spells (which isn't easy for a FVS compared to a cleric). It'd also give us debuffs rather than buffs.
    I like the idea of a Beacon of Despair (as a selectable path of a Beacon tree or as a separate tree).

    I would even be satisfied with a negative energy choice selector in Angel of Vengeance tree.

    Give dark favored souls at least something...

  7. #187
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    Mass Heal needs to have its casting time reduced.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Mass Heal needs to have its casting time reduced.
    Honestly, it wouldn't hurt for a lot of FvS spells to have slightly faster casting and/or reduced cooldowns, ala Sorcs.
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  9. #189
    Community Member edrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    I can think of a compromise that would help heal undead:

    Add an ability: Favored Souls are granted Heal as an extra automatic spell slot at level six somewhere in the tree?
    (Heal sla is sort of doing that already)

    This opens up a slot for Harm (which is the best undead healing spell divines can take).



    Inflict wounds has a range of close and a cone of facing target requirement making it a poor choice.
    Mass inflict is a little better, but how many times does one have multiple undead in a party?

    Harm does have the facing target problem, but a healing build could forgo cometfall or blade barrier?

    Fortunately Pale Masters have fairly good self healing.
    Palemaster's have decent but expensive healing. That decent turns into terrible around the later epic levels, and is a joke in Reaper due to the self healing penalty.

    Hence the entirety of the post that remains within the PC section of the forums. There's no reason to exclude PMs from healing off the two Beacon abilities as well as Ameliorating Strike from War Soul/War Priest. After all Vol is a deity. Now; I'm not saying let the Wall of Healing heal them, just the beacons.

    Although giving us the Beacon of Despair as a multiselector option would be great. But seeing as I made that suggestion originally some 8 or so months ago and it hasn't taken root yet, I doubt we're going to see it before U39 hits live.

  10. #190
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    I'd like reduced cooldowns, but putting a bunch of useful active abilities in every tree is a fine alternative. Having Hopes and Beacons and Wall to cast should make it less painful when you have only 1 appropriate spell and it's on cooldown. Hopefully they load up the AoV tree similarly.

    Since I already suggested that Wall of Healing could be renamed after Irian, the Eternal Day, here are some other abilities that could get that flavor too:

    Core One: Irian's Dawn
    Core Three: Irian's Light
    Core Six: Irian's Zenith
    Wall of Healing: Irian Manifest

    I would also rename "Undying Beacon" because Eberron already has the Undying Court. The name suggests positive energy undead when that's not what's going on. Perhaps "Beacon of the Eternal Day"?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    I think it'd be faster to have a quick post about updates we've made since this posting; most of the last few days have been spent fixing bugs. Here's what's changed since this post went up:

    • All of the Hope spells now last 18 seconds. (They keep their cooldowns as written, 6 seconds for the first three and 60 for Hope for Success).
    • some more buffs on hope spells
    hey steelstar. i don't think this is what we want in this tree. instead of ramping up duration on the spells and making them stronger, we'd like to see mechanics to apply those buffs on other ways but casting them

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanadazia View Post
    my suggestion earlier was, to let the hope buffs trigger on getting healed by that healing wall.
    or adding that buff to a character you spellcrit-healed - that would be a cool idea!

    or add a skill, that on activation, that does something like a radiant servant positive energy burst but without the heal and applies 2 random hopes to nearby allies. or another SLA that has a hitbox like a dragonsbreath or a cone. a healing mist/gust of wind sort of spell, that also adds random hope buffs

    add the hope buffs ontop of cool skills like the healing wall, don't make it boring. tie the triggering effects to special interactions. spellcrit heals for example. or on activation of other stuff the FvS gets. dash through your allies with leap of waith to also buff them. or leave a trail of holy ground where you dashed over - all allies standing on top get a refreshing beacon/hope buff.

    so many chances to add a unique and fun playstyle - yet you decide to go the "press button 1-3, wait 6 seconds, do it again" mechanics.
    step up your game! so much potential is this tree!

    make it more interactive!
    any chance we can get something like this? i'd love to not feel like a human bot, pressing 4 keys and doing it all over again. if i had other options to apply those buffs to my party members, that'd be great, interactive and so much more fun.
    i had alot of ideas, how to do this and i hope you consider implementing something like this, else this tree will be pretty boring to play
    i see you try to open up some windows, where the caster can do something else - yet you're pretty sure expected to keep these buffs up on 2 partymembers, since its a 18 second buff with 6 second cooldown.
    rather you make it aoe or give it any other mechanic to apply those buffs at random, or you make them exclusive to one party member, but ramp up the duration to like 5 minutes.
    there are other buffs from enhancements in the game, that last 2 minutes and have 30 seconds cooldown - yet i could never be bothered to actually use them.

    managing short-time buffs =/= playing the game. its just a bad design decision if you leave it this way.
    please reconsider adding other mechanics to these short time buffs - like the cleric has that prr buff on healing an ally.
    for more ideas see my quote
    Last edited by Lanadazia; 06-15-2018 at 03:53 AM.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    I see the intention behind this tree and to me it looks like a very powerful healing and buffing tree. that is exactly what it is. if someone was able to figure out a good mix with melee and aura, than someone will figure out a good mix with this tree. this looks like the tree to use over other trees that have a lot of healing and buffing to boost group offense and defense. it looks like the old "healer behind a wall of melees" tree, but now with more marshmallows!
    My opinion is that this is essentially a fleshing out of a healing rôle that is necessary to the FvS Class, and just speaking personally I'm happy that this is being made, but obviously when it can happen sometimes that the Devs need to finally just fill that gap in the wall with what's needed for the house, nobody IMO should be surprised by the architecture.

    I do like the fact that even some minimal investments into the tree can pay off splash-wise, and that the tree will clearly be helpful in some particular tactics and meta-build choices towards reincarnation-cycle goals.

    Also, FvS has always been a smidgeon too weak in healing generally, well ever since the Epic tier was introduced, and I hope that Beacon of Hope will successfully fix that.

  13. #193
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    I understand that the goal is to make buffing like a dpser using attack clickies, but this design for buffing it feels like a bot should be doing it better. I don't know where the balance between carpal tunnel inducing monotony and feeling like you buff and just watch health bars is, but casting multiple buffs on single targets as soon as they are off cooldown is for sure on the carpal tunnel end.

  14. #194

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    30 total abilities in the tree, SIXTEEN of them are one-use or very short term duration abilities. One full and one over half full hotbutton bar just to fit them all on.

    GAG. Yuck. Pass.

    (and yes, I know you don't have to take them all but if you want the capstone you have to take a hell of a lot of them just to qualify for it...and I consider a good tree to have like 4 active abilities that aren't toggles AT MOST)

    In comparison, Angel of Vengeance is 29 abilities, with only 6 being active, and 3 of those are permanent toggles.
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  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by edrein View Post
    Really disappointed that in the 6+ month since this was first proposed to the Player Council and then there hasn't been much changes.
    That's unfair -- it's mechanically a lot tighter than it was originally.

    The Raise Dead SLA may not be terribly exciting from any epic or endgame nor über perspective, but not everybody plays in those particular sandboxes.

    Don't like it for yourself ? Well, the whole point of D&D and DDO character creation is to let players (if they want) to maybe dodge the obvious in front of their nose and seek instead their parallel pathways. Spend your AP elsewhere mate, hehehe

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by edrein View Post
    Beacon of Despair

    • Core 1: For each Core ability you gain, +1% Negative Spell Critical Chance, +10 Negative Energy Amp, and +5 Negative Spell Power.
    • Core 2: Beacon of Pestillence: Cost: 2 SP: Enemies ahead of you* are damage for 1 point of Negative Energy per Favored Soul level. If you or an ally is undead this effect heals you. This scales with your Negative Spell Power. 6 second cooldown.
    • Core 3: Dark Light: Whenever you cast one of your Beacons or use Flight of Terror, you and affected allies gain a Sacred bonus to Negative Energy Amplification equal to your Favored Soul level for 12 seconds. Enemies in the zone of effect are dazzled and take a -1 penalty to attack, spot, and search. These enemies are shadowed by Dark Light, dispelling stealth, invisibility, blur, and displacement, for 10 seconds, and giving a -40 penalty to hide. Sightless enemies are immune to the dazzle effect
    • Core 4: Beacon of Despair: Cost: 15 SP: Enemies ahead of you* take the effects of an Enervation and a Fear spell, and are harmed for 5 points of Negative Energy per Favored Soul level. If you or your ally are undead this effect heals you.This scales with 100% Negative Spell Power. 30 second cooldown.
    • Core 5: Flight of Terror: When you use your Leap of Faith, any enemy you pass through is effected by the Phantasmal Killer spell.
    • Core 6: Shroud of the Vampire: 50 SP. 30 second cooldown. Multiselector:
      • Passive:+4 WIS. You gain +3 Maximum Caster Level with all Negative spells. Your Loss and Beacon abilities that scale with Favored Soul level now add Epic Levels as well.
      • Passive: +4 CHA. You gain +3 Maximum Caster Level with all Negative spells. Your Loss and Beacon abilities that scale with Favored Soul level now add Epic Levels as well.



    Tier 1:

    • Crushing Despair SLA 10/5/2 SP. (3 second cooldown)
    • Confidence: +1/+2/+3 Concentration, Diplomacy and Heal. Rank 3: You also gain +10 Negative Energy Spell Power.
    • Divine Durability: +2/4/6 Competence Bonus to PRR.
    • Spell Critical Chance: Negative: +2%
    • Spell Points: 30/60/90 Spell Points



    Tier 2:

    • Necrotic Bolt SLA: (6/4/2 Spell Points) (3/2/1 second cooldown)
    • Loss of Inspiration: Targeted enemy gains a debuff to all save and skill throws equal to 1/4 your Favored Soul level for 12 seconds. 6 second cooldown.
    • Divine Durability II: +2/4/6 Competence bonus to MRR.
    • Spell Critical Chance: Negative: +2%
    • Fear's Reward: Multiselector (Shares a cooldown and same SP cost as Divine Might).
      • You gain an Sacred bonus to Negative Spell Power equal to your Strength modifier for 30/60/120 seconds.
      • You gain an Sacred bonus to Negative Spell Power equal to your Wisdom modifier for 30/60/120 seconds.
      • You gain an Sacred bonus to Negative Spell Power equal to your Charisma modifier for 30/60/120 seconds.



    Tier 3:

    • Loss of Protection: Targeted enemy losses PRR and MRR equal to Favored Soul levels for 12 seconds. 6 second cooldown.
    • Efficient Empower
    • Spell Critical Chance: Negative: +2%
    • WIS/CHA



    Tier 4:

    • Death Ward SLA: 10/8/5 SP (4 second cooldown)
    • Loss of Victory: Targeted enemy gains 1% vulnerability per Favored Soul levels. This lasts for 12 seconds. 6 second cooldown.
    • Pesimism: Every time you cast one of your Loss abilities, you gain a stack of Dire Beacon, giving yourself +2 PRR, +2 MRR, and +1 AC. This stacks up to 10 times, and stacks fade once every 12 seconds. Loss of Success grants 3 stacks.
    • Spell Critical Chance: Negative: +2%
    • WIS/CHA



    Tier 5:

    • Animate Ally SLA: 15 SP, 9 second cooldown
    • Loss of Success: Targeted enemy loses 30 melee and ranged power for 12 seconds. Spellcasters are instead silence and reflected upon their next spell cast. 60 second cooldown.
    • Harm SLA: 40 SP, 6 second cooldown
    • Undying Beacon: Allies affected by your Beacons gain Unconsciousness Range equal to 10x your Favored Soul level. Allied undead do not crumble during this effect. This effect lasts for 12 seconds, and is refreshed if the target is affected by another Beacon spell.
    • Wall of Death: Cost: 30 Spell Points. Create a wall that persists for 30 seconds. Enemies in the wall take an Inflict Moderate Wounds spell every few seconds. Enemy undead are instead feared. 60 second cooldown.
    An intriguing idea, though you've neglected in the design to provide the player character with the "undead" tag.

    As such the naming is wrong, as this is basically somebody conspiring with some dark Power to achieve immortality via undeadness.

    Which is a great idea, well I don't mean something that anyone should try at home, kids. Unholy Zombie Plague Breakouts, Batman !!

    Not "Confidence" -- "Dominion"

  17. #197
    Community Member edrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natashaelle View Post
    An intriguing idea, though you've neglected in the design to provide the player character with the "undead" tag.

    As such the naming is wrong, as this is basically somebody conspiring with some dark Power to achieve immortality via undeadness.

    Which is a great idea, well I don't mean something that anyone should try at home, kids. Unholy Zombie Plague Breakouts, Batman !!

    Not "Confidence" -- "Dominion"
    Capstone provided player with the undeath tag. Placing it earlier than level 20 would invalidate PMs, putting it as a capstone however gives them the ability to self heal via the tree and further the undeath portion of the theme. Until then they exist as a sort of Debuff-DPS hybrid.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    An interesting thought, though we have concerns about placing an individual's aggro management decisions in the hands of another player; we'll talk about that notion on our end, though, as it could lead to some interesting things.
    This idea sounds a lot like the 4E Warlord character class.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niminae View Post
    Wonder Wall is an option which plays to the whiny nature of the forums (and I'm not excluding myself here...).
    I must admit that I do like Wonder Wall.

    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by simo0208 View Post
    Freedom of Movement would be far better than deathward
    I'd actually prefer anything more thematic and colourful in this area of the Tree than either of these.

    Thematically maybe a unique buff called something like "Hope for Favour" ?

    FvS is after all a CHA-based Class ...

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