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  1. #1
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    Default The Call --- to Soundburst

    Inspired by:
    The Call by Regina Spektor

    and by monk melee power, VKF versatility, and ES warlock splash nerfs.

    I became complacent with too broken trees or simple builds with powerful monk and warlock splashes, or simple use of VKF versatility. Thankfully they got nerfed, to push me into something much more ... me!

    This build can be adapted to any tank, bow, melee, ranged, thrower, or caster platform on any class. You can dps off any soundburst stat (charisma or wisdom) with an offstat, or a related stat such as strength from divine might on a charisma build. Your character might not be developed enough to break spell resistance with just a 3 level splash, but Burst of Glacial Wrath (BoGW) which has an even higher DC has no spell resistance check. If your character has relevant gear and past lives and you build for it, you will blow through spell resistance until you get to Burst of Glacial Wrath, although you may need to carefully pick an ED and twists for early epics. Kensai in particular was a godly casting tree, due to power surge +8 all stats, but SSG nerfed it. Rogue is particularly stylish. Arti drops heroic damage numbers down that make you question reality. Staffy is here. Bear is here. Sorc is here.

    The reason this build works is that not only are you using abilities that grant bonus helpless damage, you are also stripping dex bonuses to AC and reflex save on mobs by helpless stunning them, leaving them totally open to followup attacks. Helpless damage starts at +50% damage, and adds another 50% for Combat Brute if in LD, and another 30% from Sense Weakness twist in epics, and 5% from ship buffs, plus class and race bonuses, if any.



    The Call --- To Soundburst (Aasimar Scourge Tempest Version)

    Max + Levels Wisdom (See note at bottom for charisma version), decent other stats, Neutral Good

    1 Ranger Quick Draw (to swap between spell casting and melee)
    2-4 Cleric Amaunator, Quicken Spell, Air Domain (Evocation Bonuses, Tilo tried turning elementals, doesn't really work) (Spells: Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Soundburst)
    5-15 Ranger Precision (Dex 13), Improved Critical:Blunt, Completionist, PL:Wiz
    16 FvS (Divine Will)
    17-20 Cleric Evocation Focus (Spell: Order's Wrath)
    21 Greater Evocation
    24 Burst of Glacial Wrath
    26 Perfect TWF
    27 Overwhelming Critical
    28 Mass Frog
    29 Dire Charge
    30 Reincarnate

    Free Feats: TWFx3

    35 AP Tempest DoD +1 Multiplier full offhand stat
    17 AP Aasimar Destroyer of Dead +1 Multiplier Stacking
    4 AP Warsoul Divine Will
    24 AP DWS Advanced Sneak Attack/Killer +1 Range
    (+ Racial AP)

    In this variant, undead can't be stunned with soundburst or BoGW. To maintain the Aasimar Scourge of the Undead flavor, we then go to 7 cleric instead, for Order's Wrath, which will daze them while we kill them from full. I really like this variant because the weapons take only an hour or two to farm, or no time at all if you just do high roads for XP a few times on prior lives.

    Late Heroic and Epic Weapons:

    (From Rest Stop quest)

    (From Epic Rest Stop or heroic High Road saga reward)

    In epics, play in LD twisting Evocation (Draconic) or balanced attacks based on mob types, evocation (Magistar), Sense Weakness, Cocoon (Or if you are baller, spell pen in Divine Crusader)

    Quick R5 test under dungeon alert boosting mob saves: 2 of 14 mobs save (light blue hexagon)(Or just see the R10 test above):


    So you don't need a casting tree, or casting enhancements to no-fail reaper streak or cast in R10. This is consistent with two out of three bard, fvs, and cleric enhancement trees having no spell casting bonuses. We are basically no-fail in R5, and no monster champion bonuses like FoM or Mindblock protect against stun, unlike hold or charm/dance, making Soundburst the most reliable CC in the game.

    Even if you aren't a reaper player, and play in normal-elite, if you want to give this or the caster version a shot with gear appropriate to the difficulty you play in, it will work out, and teach you a lot on building more complex characters and leveraging your attacks. Even if you can only land stun on half the mobs, that's half the mobs that aren't fighting back!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Charisma Version:

    If you go max charisma FvS casting using divine might strength to hit and damage, you can drop the cleric levels for another class, and use any weapon. If you have a prowess set and sentient weapon lying around for a drow heavy mace of the weapon master, I would do that. You lose Mass Frog though. I had planned to do this build originally as a 12 fighter, 5 FvS, 3 ranger charisma/divine might dual wield kensai heavy mace build, but didn't get the heart +1 in trade to make that.

    Also skill some intimidate on this version, for grouping mobs up for soundburst.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 04-21-2019 at 03:23 PM.

  2. #2
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    I'm having a bit of trouble seeing how this is a particularly effective approach. Even in the epic level version, Forgotten Light will generally do less damage than Macabre/Barovian heroic-level weapons from Ravenloft. This is especially true when you consider that a Mace isn't a particularly effective weapon even with the Scourge benefits. Even if you were to choose a sub-standard weapon that used a different stat, Dynastic Falcata (Charisma-based) would be a far better choice that wouldn't require 15 points in a racial tree to bring it up to 'mediocre'.

    Nor do I see Soundburst as justifying this approach. You can get Soundburst as an SLA with any build via the Exalted Angel twist - and the DC will likely be higher than for a hybrid build hard-casting it. Soundburst is also a Fortitude-based save with Spell Resistance. Contrast this with abilities like Color Spray (Will, no SR) that do the same thing more easily. For a Ranger build, you've got options like Balanced Attacks as a twist or even Overwhelming Force in FotW that can get around the save issue entirely. Even if you were committed to Soundburst, it seems odd to take it as a Cleric rather than a Bard. Unless you've got enough caster levels to Heighten to level 9, the Bard is going to have better DC/SR as well as benefits like Displacement or access to Frozen Fury. Similarly, Burst of Glacial Wrath and Dire Charge work on any build - and there are numerous ways of approaching such a build that are considerably more synergistic.

    A straight Gnome 20 Ranger with Harper/Vistani will probably deal more damage against non-helpless targets than this build deals against helpless ones - and it will be considerably better at rendering those targets helpless in the first place.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    I'm having a bit of trouble seeing how this is a particularly effective approach. Even in the epic level version, Forgotten Light will generally do less damage than Macabre/Barovian heroic-level weapons from Ravenloft. This is especially true when you consider that a Mace isn't a particularly effective weapon even with the Scourge benefits. Even if you were to choose a sub-standard weapon that used a different stat, Dynastic Falcata (Charisma-based) would be a far better choice that wouldn't require 15 points in a racial tree to bring it up to 'mediocre'.

    Nor do I see Soundburst as justifying this approach. You can get Soundburst as an SLA with any build via the Exalted Angel twist - and the DC will likely be higher than for a hybrid build hard-casting it. Soundburst is also a Fortitude-based save with Spell Resistance. Contrast this with abilities like Color Spray (Will, no SR) that do the same thing more easily. For a Ranger build, you've got options like Balanced Attacks as a twist or even Overwhelming Force in FotW that can get around the save issue entirely. Even if you were committed to Soundburst, it seems odd to take it as a Cleric rather than a Bard. Unless you've got enough caster levels to Heighten to level 9, the Bard is going to have better DC/SR as well as benefits like Displacement or access to Frozen Fury. Similarly, Burst of Glacial Wrath and Dire Charge work on any build - and there are numerous ways of approaching such a build that are considerably more synergistic.

    A straight Gnome 20 Ranger with Harper/Vistani will probably deal more damage against non-helpless targets than this build deals against helpless ones - and it will be considerably better at rendering those targets helpless in the first place.
    Heya! Thank you for bringing up all those ideas!

    Forgotten Light as a mace is 18-20x2 base. After Scourge multiplier, Tempest multiplier, and IC:B + LD:Pulverizer + DWS range increases it will be 15-20x4.

    Dynastic Falcata as a khopesh is 19-20x3 base. After Tempest multiplier and IC:S + DWS range increases it will be 16-20x4.

    Forgotten Light has Falcata beaten hands down, does not require a feat to use (khopesh proficiency), and it has a better damage type (bludgeoning + good). There are monster champions resistant to slash damage, and I prefer to simply bypass monster champion defenses (hence soundburst).

    --------------

    As to the EA Soundburst, it has a much lower DC, since it doesn't benefit from evocation bonuses, and it doesn't spell penetrate. This makes it half as useful for stunning. Plus it has a six instead of three second cool down, so half as much stunning again. Plus, it is only useful from levels 20-30, instead of level 4-30, so half as much stunning again.

    At level 20, Soundburst spell will benefit from: 4 enhancement evo focus, 2 insightful, 3 PL, 2 cleric domain, 5 twist, 1 augment, 2 feat, 3 reaper = +22 evo focus bonus. The EA SLA at level 20 will start 8 higher base DC (base 20 instead of 12), but is missing 22 evo focus, so is 14 DC lower. By level 30, the gap is even larger, with the SLA way below the spell. Plus the SLA won't spell pen against early epic drow, which I'll be able to do with soundburst spell in divine crusader about 85% of the time (+5 cleric caster levels).

    Edit: Color Spray is 8 instead of 3 seconds between uses and causes helplessness (Thx Hjarki and cru121). Plus champion mind block I think blocks Color Spray helpless daze. And if you go color spray, you need to invest 12 AP into harper for int to hit/dmg/kta, which I don't want to do. Plus I'm on a Scourge life, so it isn't available! I don't like the 8 second cool down on it for a melee character. Champions with second wind clear CC and become very dangerous until you kill them. With soundburst 3 second cool down, you just stun them again. Plus it is a cone not a sphere, so it doesn't hit mobs all the way around you as you cleave spam.

    Balanced attacks takes on average 20 hits to activate, so it isn't AoE immediately stunning 15 mobs. I'll swap it in for constructs/plants and take an evo twist out. FoTW overwhelming force is single target, gives up Combat Brute, has a longer cool down, and is charge based. Plus you lose combat brute. On a plus you get huge crits, which I do love to see.

    I would normally have gone bard for a melee build, but I wanted to keep the Hunter of the Undead theme, and cleric seemed to fit that theme more with Order's Wrath. Bard enhancement trees are pretty good, and it is what to use when you have extra AP left over in your build.

    BoGW/dire charge anyone can use, you are right. Soundburst anyone can use as well, and they can use it more or less on character creation.

    Displacement is nice. I almost went luck domain to get it. But I have clickies I already don't take out of the bank anymore.

    ---------------
    Last edited by Tilomere; 07-15-2018 at 10:20 AM.

  4. #4
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    Color Spray makes enemies helpless.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    Color Spray makes enemies helpless.
    Ok, so on gnome lives you get a choice of which to use. On everyone else, soundburst! I think I would still use soundburst on melee, due to shape and ability to hit mobs behind you.

    Edit: mm I don't like the 8 second cooldown on it for a melee character. Champions with second wind clear CC and become very dangerous until you kill them. With soundburst 3 second cooldown, you just stun them again.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 06-04-2018 at 02:31 PM.

  6. #6
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    Is this a solo build?
    And does it actually work?
    I've never seen anybody sound bursting, except for clerics, and it hasnt generally been effective.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vish View Post
    Is this a solo build?
    And does it actually work?
    I've never seen anybody sound bursting, except for clerics, and it hasnt generally been effective.
    They all want to deal light damage in EA.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 06-04-2018 at 04:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vish View Post
    I've never seen anybody sound bursting, except for clerics, and it hasnt generally been effective.
    Ultimately, Fortitude saves are about 20 points higher than Reflex/Will saves. Moreover, if you can routinely land Fort-based spells, you tend not to bother with helpless effects and go directly to instakill effects. Soundburst's very short duration also means that you generally end up burning large amounts of SP (and time) to keep enemies stunned.

  9. #9

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    I can vouch for this approach—have run with Tilo and he was stunning everything, was late heroics
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    Ultimately, Fortitude saves are about 20 points higher than Reflex/Will saves. Moreover, if you can routinely land Fort-based spells, you tend not to bother with helpless effects and go directly to instakill effects. Soundburst's very short duration also means that you generally end up burning large amounts of SP (and time) to keep enemies stunned.
    Mass Hold Monster quickened is 60 spell points. Soundburst quickened is 25. Both save spell points over letting mobs run free and trying to heal the damage up afterwards.

    It does take some time to keep enemies stunned. But so does swinging at open air while chasing mobs around that are being kited, and healing up damage from mobs that fight back.

    I'm not as young as I used to be. Chasing kited mobs around on a melee just isn't so appealing to me anymore.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 06-04-2018 at 07:37 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vish View Post
    Is this a solo build?
    And does it actually work?
    I've never seen anybody sound bursting, except for clerics, and it hasnt generally been effective.
    I just finished a cleric life and Soundburst was my go-to reaper stun. It was pretty much no fail on reapers up through Legendary R3. It stunned a lot of stuff, but I mainly just used it on reapers since they were immune to all my autokills.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I'm not as young as I used to be. Chasing kited mobs around on a melee just isn't so appealing to me anymore.
    This. Made me laugh =D

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vish View Post
    I've never seen anybody sound bursting, except for clerics, and it hasnt generally been effective.
    Soundburst is the lowest-level AoE CC spell which induces helplessness. DDO power creep has reached the point that Tilomere has figured out how to have Reaper-effective Sound Burst DCs / Spell Pen on a cleric 3 splash. [And presumably a FvS or bard 4 splash.] Thus his current obsession is adding Soundburst to every build he makes. He's doing it with ranger here. He's done it with a bear-form Artificer caster. He's mixed it with rogue and proposed it for barbs. I presume it will be his ongoing gimmick for all his toons until either it stops being effective or he finds a more interesting way of exploiting DDO's power creep.

    It amuses me the ways he finds to abuse power creep. I don't find it a practical approach for most players, though, since it's a recipe for frustration if you don't have what it takes to land Reaper-effective Soundbursts. And frankly, when you're that far up the slopes of Mt. Power Creep, it stops being about Reaper viability and becomes all about bragging rights and showing off.
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  14. #14
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    Soundburst duration is just too low in order to be practical in content where it would actually make a difference.
    It gets saved, spell resisted, ignored. And that's on "full time" caster with much higher DC than any splash can achieve.

    Personally wouldn't splash 3 cleric for it on a martial class. Clever fun splash for easy low reapers though.
    Last edited by Wipey; 06-05-2018 at 12:47 PM.

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    Wow anothee awesome build tilo ***

    Few questions... Are u gonna spend more time getting "your ideal and easy to attain gear setup" like eith the electric critzilla?

    What do you think about phosphor? Yes, i know, harder to get xD i mean compared with heroic forgotten light i would say phosphor is better

    Also... Have you made yet a helpless exploiting build? Something like 4 fvs (for will + soundburst) and then horc + 2 helpless abusing classes? Have you yet? XD just wondering to see what was your final selection on it (i think you did, but didn't share lol)
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Soundburst is the lowest-level AoE CC spell which induces helplessness.
    Apparently color spray is. I'm glad I made this post just to learn this! I wonder ... both?

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    It amuses me the ways he finds to abuse power creep. I don't find it a practical approach for most players, though, since it's a recipe for frustration if you don't have what it takes to land Reaper-effective Soundbursts.
    How many times did you hear that melee suck in reaper? I heard it enough to make melee builds for reaper to help people out, not abuse power creep. 20 Warlock is unquestionably the most powerful (AoE helpless or otherwise) build in reaper heroics and what I would be playing to abuse power creep. Part of what makes warlock so powerful is their early (Web level 4) and easy access to AoE crowd control. I tried really hard to get warlock nerfed, but they only nerfed the weaker multiclass ES tree instead of the more powerful SE tree, so I gave up on that and instead now am looking at ways to improve play on other classes.

    I'm here to offer a way to build other classes and play styles up a bit to get closer to an even footing for everyone, like adding AoE crowd control to a ranger here also at level 4. If you don't have what it takes to be in reaper, anything in reaper is a recipe for frustration, and you should play on a lower difficulty you find more fun. That being said, even if you were at 50% success, that's still not that bad and still gives some targets in a group to go after and that aren't fighting back, especially the low-fort dangerous enemy casters. Displacement is considered good, and it is only 50% in elite (less in reaper) against physical attacks and mobs without true seeing.

    Plus, it is use not abuse. If you spend time collecting power, why shouldn't you use it? Should a fighter put his hard-earned sword away and fight with a stick?

    Besides, have you ever seen another build, ever, that is designed to kill things with a Scepter of Healing? That's not abusing power creep. That's just hilarious.

    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    Few questions... Are u gonna spend more time getting "your ideal and easy to attain gear setup" like eith the electric critzilla?

    What do you think about phosphor? Yes, i know, harder to get xD i mean compared with heroic forgotten light i would say phosphor is better

    Also... Have you made yet a helpless exploiting build? Something like 4 fvs (for will + soundburst) and then horc + 2 helpless abusing classes? Have you yet? XD just wondering to see what was your final selection on it (i think you did, but didn't share lol)
    No on gear. This is more of a way to build characters than specific build.

    Phosphor is strength based, so it goes with charisma divine might and soundburst from bard/fvs. It has a socket so you can have lots of procs. Maybe negative level augments from Halloween?

    I bounce around from build to build, so no final build for me. I will say that Electric Gibzilla as a dragonborn (or gnome apparently) instead of bear would put out heroic numbers that are very nice, but even still, a 20 warlock is more powerful in R5 simply due to instant kills and charms.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 06-05-2018 at 03:20 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    How many times did you hear that melee suck in reaper?
    Losing the last two cores in Tempest and shackling yourself to a sub-par weapon constitutes a massive dps loss over what you'd expect from a melee. If you really wanted to Soundburst, a Bard or Favored Soul build would not only have a better chance to land the Soundburst, but they'd do more melee damage (as well as bringing more options and likely better defense to the table). If you really wanted to play a Ranger, you could play a pure Ranger with Color Spray - again getting far more melee dps alongside better control.

    What bothers me (and perhaps others) is that there simply isn't any synergy in the approach you're taking. Taking a Ferrari and attaching a box trailer to it doesn't give you a truck - it just gives you something that's not particularly good at being either a sports car or a truck.

  18. #18
    Community Member Morroiel's Avatar
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    Point Information: your screenshot shows saves in a quest with base level 1 under your character levels. It is a bit misleading to use that as proof of your builds DC efficacy in r5.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    A new harder difficulty is likely to just be that: harder, without giving commensurate power...Ideally, at the very hardest edge of difficulty, we would not know how long it would take until all quests are completed on that difficulty.

  19. #19
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    Most melee builds arent going to put helpless on a large group of mobs until they get dire charge. But that is what is needed when a melee is swarmed in reaper. I appreciate that is what this build is designed to do. As to the short duration it is something you can get used to I imagine. Is it a super optimal build at cap? No, but is it capable of soloing mid skull reapers leveling up as a melee? It looks like it is. Gratz and thanks for sharing the idea. It looks like you stealth to the mobs then sound burst them by the stealthy enhancements in DWS? Innovative use of stealth if so, more props.

    I have been enjoying playing a melee arti who casts tactical detonation and lightning sphere for mass CC. Neither provide helpless but staying untouched on a melee is valuable. I have found tactical detonation particularly to be widely effective against all kinds of opponents, And prismatic strike against single target. Along with some nice rune arm dps it led me to take evo focus in heroics, make sure I am geared for evo dc's, twist evo focus from magister and run in shadow dancer for maximizing Int. It sure is a different route for a melee of mine.

    I have a gnome Wizard who uses a fairly high dc color spray. It is a good short duration cc spell with a nice cone aoe. It does not work on nearly as many different types of things as Tactical detonation except for the blinding portion of it. Still it is good cc. I was considering a gnome fighter using color spray but this build you posted makes me think of a wis based favored soul/fighter melee building evo dc's and using sound burst.
    Last edited by Jetrule; 06-05-2018 at 05:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    And frankly, when you're that far up the slopes of Mt. Power Creep, it stops being about Reaper viability and becomes all about bragging rights and showing off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morroiel View Post
    Point Information: your screenshot shows saves in a quest with base level 1 under your character levels. It is a bit misleading to use that as proof of your builds DC efficacy in r5.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wipey View Post
    Clever fun splash for easy low reapers though.
    Low is relative. I showed R5 to not be accused of showing off and to show reaper viability. But since that didn't work, might as well show off:



    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    shackling yourself to a sub-par weapon constitutes a massive dps loss over what you'd expect from a melee.. gnome color spray
    Also to answer questions and comments about weapon. It's not bad. It doesn't show IC:B on weapon (it never does), and Tilo doesn't have AP for DWS crit range increase, and isn't in epics for LD Pulverizer crit range increase. For a leveling weapon, it's pretty nice. It is going to end up as 15-20x4, before OC and Devastating Critical. That's not a bad 20-30 leveling weapon. ESoS on a kensai is 14-20x4, or slightly better, but lacks good bypass and is slashing instead of blunt so is reduced by some monster champion defenses.

    Honestly, strength isn't that far behind, so Tilo could just use any weapon at all. Since I have basically all of them muled, and am still using Forgotten Light, I couldn't think of a better one.

    Also, just like you suggest not being shackled to a weapon, Tilo can't be shackled to gnome and do iconic and racial lives. Being shackled to a lesser weapon in this case is the lesser evil. But the weapon really isn't that bad, all things considered.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 06-07-2018 at 04:38 PM.

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