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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    • BoGW's DC doesn't vary with level (20 + stat + mods).
    • It's still a Fort save. Not only are Fort saves generally higher than Will saves, but this is especially true on the kind of melee enemies that mass AE is primarily used against.
    • It's cooldown is almost twice as long as its duration.


    That doesn't mean it's a bad effect. However, it's more "CC for characters who don't have CC" than anything else. Spells like Color Spray and Mass Hold Monster are far more reliable.

    You might also consider that epic levels are going to give you access to BoGW and Dire Charge anyway... so why would you throw away enormous chunks of your dps just so you can get access to Soundburst? There's no synergy.
    I start reaper streaking at level 1 with Command spell for champions and reapers. That's why the build starts FvS instead of Cleric for Turn Undead. Color Spray as a platform I already rejected for multiple reasons. Mass hold takes too long to get to, too much investment in a single class to reach, and gives you a horrible BaB, all of which result in it being a horrible ability for making a platform out of.

    You are wrong about the DC.

    BoGW doesn't work on mobs that can't be charmed like spiders.

    Since Tilo does land Soundburst in epics on many mobs, and in heroics on basically everything that can be stunned, it gives enormous chunks of dps via helpless, and speeds dungeon clears by not needing to heal as much, especially due to the reaper penalty to self-healing.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 07-15-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Actual CC players, on builds meant for CC have 1000% more CC potential than this build can.
    So I'm testing a sorc this life to try out Warlock Dilli. At level 10 now. To CC undead, living ground creatures, living flying creatures, and reapers, a level 10 sorc uses a combination of:

    Halt undead (necromancy), 3 targets, helpless, broken by damage on intelligent undead
    Web (conjuration), AoE non-helpless, for ground targets, broken by AoE fire damage and blown away by gust of wind/reaper cyclonic blasts. Ineffective on fire-type mobs.
    Sonic Blast (evocation), for flying living targets and fire type mobs, non-helpless, breaks on damage
    Suggestion (enchantment) for reapers
    Stinking Cloud (conjuration) (for living)

    Because my sorc is using 4 different spell schools,my DCs are on average lower than just maxing evo out on a paladin. In addition, since my sorc has to both DPS AND CC, it has fewer spell points available to CC. My paladin at level 10 has 1k spell points after buffing to spend on CC, plus whatever reaper mana globes appear.



    My sorc at the same level has 1400 spell points, but since it needs around 1k mana to DPS and instant kill with, it only leaves 400 mana available to CC with, which means it can't afford to run quicken on CC, and it can't spam CC at will.



    Not only that, but since the only good CC available so far for reapers is Suggestion, which has to be single targeted and cast separately on top of CC for mobs, so it takes longer and costs additional mana, cutting in to dps. Plus it isn't as smooth a gameplay as just AoE stunning everything. It is fairly difficult to target reapers 1 at a time mixed in with a group of other mobs to CC them. Not only is Turn Undead vastly better than Halt Undead agaisnt undead, sound burst is vastly better than web+suggestion against a mix of the living and reapers. And my paladin build has over twice the mana available than my sorc to cast CC with. Turn undead is free to use as well. Plus sorcs have to deal with mindblock and FoM champions ignoring CC, but paladin stuns everything, since there is no champion buff against stun.

    In heroics, Sorc is a garbage CC class.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 10-14-2018 at 09:26 PM.

  3. #83
    The Eternal Rapscallion Haphazarduk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetrule View Post
    Renegade Master maker has battle fist which is a small arc aoe stun. I can get 2-3 with it. Greater shout stuns and gives helpless. In a long cone aoe. There are probably more. But that is all that springs to mind.
    Are you sure about Battlefist being AoE? I can't get more than single target which is what the tooltip say. Maybe it was patched?

    Hap

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetrule View Post
    Renegade Master maker has battle fist which is a small arc aoe stun. I can get 2-3 with it.
    Try pack them in tight with small mobs.

  5. #85
    Community Member leesun's Avatar
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    It is always a pleasure to peruse through a Tilomere build. To go about achieving an end, more than efficiently, through ways that may be viewed as avant garde, but work nonetheless and are fun. You really have a knack for this sort of thing, and must have a mind filled with twirling cogs.

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