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  1. #1
    Community Member simo0208's Avatar
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    Default Complete Fail: Board Moderation

    Petition:

    Please actively moderate the forums. Where just a few months ago this board was not only much less of a cesspool, it was also actually helpful and informative. Now it’s a few users and their “sock” accounts constantly pushing their troll threads to the top. I’m just going to walk away from the forums, but additionally, the lack of moderation here is beginning to sour me on the game product overall. It’s your game, SSG, do something to protect it.

  2. #2
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simo0208 View Post
    Petition:

    Please actively moderate the forums. ....
    Be careful what you wish for. A quick browse back thru your post history looking for what the heck you're talking about shows quite a few accusations and name-calling that are within the scope of the moderation you're seeking.

    That's all I'll say about it. Carry on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by simo0208 View Post
    Petition:

    Please actively moderate the forums. Where just a few months ago this board was not only much less of a cesspool, it was also actually helpful and informative. Now it’s a few users and their “sock” accounts constantly pushing their troll threads to the top. I’m just going to walk away from the forums, but additionally, the lack of moderation here is beginning to sour me on the game product overall. It’s your game, SSG, do something to protect it.
    Pretty much. Basically, the forum has become the vault, just without the entertainment factor and the ability to tell morons to f*** off in a colourful manner. Guess even that was infraction worthy. I don´t care anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post
    Be careful what you wish for. A quick browse back thru your post history looking for what the heck you're talking about shows quite a few accusations and name-calling that are within the scope of the moderation you're seeking.

    That's all I'll say about it. Carry on.
    going over the top in an antagonizing way at times certainly is something different from waging a guerilla warfare to disrupt the forum for months. I personally don´t mind the banter and have to admit this place usually brings out the worst in me. Yet I take all insults with some amusement and have barely ever reported anyone. But this guy is actually destroying the functionality of a forum. You cannot discuss anything, he will jump in with his BS. He spams the front page with countless threads all saying the same thing. If that is not worthy of an intervention, well, then SSG can as well shut down this fine place.
    Last edited by Algreg; 06-03-2018 at 02:30 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by simo0208 View Post
    Petition:

    Please actively moderate the forums. Where just a few months ago this board was not only much less of a cesspool, it was also actually helpful and informative. Now it’s a few users and their “sock” accounts constantly pushing their troll threads to the top. I’m just going to walk away from the forums, but additionally, the lack of moderation here is beginning to sour me on the game product overall. It’s your game, SSG, do something to protect it.
    X is terrible now, not like 10 years, months, days ago !

    This same thing has been said 1000 times - and it's just human psychology. These boards are mostly fine, and mostly say the same things they've always said.

    A few months ago people definitely said the forums are **** and ddo is dying. Now looking back it was helpful and informative?

    It's fine, sky is not falling, relax and enjoy the game

  6. #6
    Community Member vryxnr's Avatar
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    Having an opinion that differs from your own and being enthusiastic about it does not make one a troll. Annoying? Probably. Especially when people start talking past each other, ignoring points, and attacking people instead of their ideas. But that is not a troll.

    I have seen trolls and sock accounts pop up here from time to time. I have seen them actually spam the forums with drivel. They rarely last more than a day, and they usually time their BS on a weekend when it's less likely for the staff to be paying attention. (a rare few have lasted longer by not spamming but being occasional trolls, spreading the disruption out over a few weeks). I am not seeing any of that right now. Whoever you are having a beef with is not - from what I can see - actually disrupting things. TBH this sounds more like trying to manipulate the system to shut up someone you don't like.

  7. #7
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vryxnr View Post
    Having an opinion that differs from your own and being enthusiastic about it does not make one a troll. Annoying? Probably. Especially when people start talking past each other, ignoring points, and attacking people instead of their ideas. But that is not a troll.

    I have seen trolls and sock accounts pop up here from time to time. I have seen them actually spam the forums with drivel. They rarely last more than a day, and they usually time their BS on a weekend when it's less likely for the staff to be paying attention. (a rare few have lasted longer by not spamming but being occasional trolls, spreading the disruption out over a few weeks). I am not seeing any of that right now. Whoever you are having a beef with is not - from what I can see - actually disrupting things. TBH this sounds more like trying to manipulate the system to shut up someone you don't like.
    there is a certain person who keeps making ftp accounts named after various trolls in game that keeps wanting warlocks nerfed.

    just speaking of moderation in general, what seems to be an issue is inconsistency. what it appears to be is - rules say no talking about a certain quest. person A says i pulled this from (quest). its persons A's first time posting. person doesnt even get a warning (at least not public). person B post a rant attacks devs on (quest). thread is locked or eaten. person b cannot post. other people say that it wasnt fair and that we need to apply it fairly.

    what i hope happens - and it may not, im not going there, is that the mods look at it and go ok this thread is harmless, so will not close it and send a pm to the op saying why you cant. then ok this guy has a history of posting inflamatory posts, i have given him warnings and he posted again. eat the thread and discipline him.

    but it just seems that there are certain people that can say anything they want and never seem to have posts restricted. (notice i put this in its own line to make it easier for mods to delete) again this is not an attack, just an observation about attitudes on the forums

    maybe if ssg is making more they can hire another mod? reduce some of the workload off cordos shoulders? maybe be a little more transparent i guess?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by simo0208 View Post
    Petition:

    Please actively moderate the forums. Where just a few months ago this board was not only much less of a cesspool, it was also actually helpful and informative. Now it’s a few users and their “sock” accounts constantly pushing their troll threads to the top. I’m just going to walk away from the forums, but additionally, the lack of moderation here is beginning to sour me on the game product overall. It’s your game, SSG, do something to protect it.
    are you sure? I thought there were a bunch of "new" players that just happened to have the exact same opinion on 10 skull reaper - total coincidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    there is a certain person who keeps making ftp accounts named after various trolls in game that keeps wanting warlocks nerfed.

    just speaking of moderation in general, what seems to be an issue is inconsistency. what it appears to be is - rules say no talking about a certain quest. person A says i pulled this from (quest). its persons A's first time posting. person doesnt even get a warning (at least not public). person B post a rant attacks devs on (quest). thread is locked or eaten. person b cannot post. other people say that it wasnt fair and that we need to apply it fairly.

    what i hope happens - and it may not, im not going there, is that the mods look at it and go ok this thread is harmless, so will not close it and send a pm to the op saying why you cant. then ok this guy has a history of posting inflamatory posts, i have given him warnings and he posted again. eat the thread and discipline him.

    but it just seems that there are certain people that can say anything they want and never seem to have posts restricted. (notice i put this in its own line to make it easier for mods to delete) again this is not an attack, just an observation about attitudes on the forums

    maybe if ssg is making more they can hire another mod? reduce some of the workload off cordos shoulders? maybe be a little more transparent i guess?
    in all fairness, Cordo can only do so much and even additional mods would have a hard time dealing with someone being hellbent on disruption (and apparently having a lot of time). This can only be dealt with in a systematic manner. Most online games with a ftp model don´t offer forum access for free accounts or at least implement some other safeguards against burn accounts. It is a shame it would have to come to that, but with the way things work around here, just anyone can decide tomorrow to go nuts on the forum. It is kind of surprising it does not happen more often. But then, sane persons usually leave things they come to dislike behind instead of displaying a manic obsession with them.

  10. #10
    Community Member simo0208's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post
    Be careful what you wish for. A quick browse back thru your post history looking for what the heck you're talking about shows quite a few accusations and name-calling that are within the scope of the moderation you're seeking.

    That's all I'll say about it. Carry on.

    Exactly my point. I get brought down to that level quite easily.

    And for the record, my accusations are in response to those accounts... not that it excuses the behavior. Active moderation would nip all that in the bud.

  11. #11
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simo0208 View Post
    Petition:

    Please actively moderate the forums. Where just a few months ago this board was not only much less of a cesspool, it was also actually helpful and informative. Now it’s a few users and their “sock” accounts constantly pushing their troll threads to the top. I’m just going to walk away from the forums, but additionally, the lack of moderation here is beginning to sour me on the game product overall. It’s your game, SSG, do something to protect it.
    They don't even have the budget to design and test a quality product before its release. As others have pointed out, monitoring the forums would "eat up" the precious time some of the designers are given for "Community Relations" which I would rather have. The company has fallen under a ton of bureaucracy in years past in order to protect their product and give players "surprise" so they can "drum up sales" for the next release.

    They need to think "outside the box" like the original development team did when designing F2P about their problems on the Forums like you said. One that addresses your concerns (and probably others) while allowing their Public Relations team the time they need to communicate with us. Currently the weekend seems to be the biggest culprit of hoax threads (which being the weekend, this could be one of them). And I have "fallen into the trap," if so.
    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

  12. #12
    Community Member simo0208's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    They don't even have the budget to design and test a quality product before its release. As others have pointed out, monitoring the forums would "eat up" the precious time some of the designers are given for "Community Relations" which I would rather have. The company has fallen under a ton of bureaucracy in years past in order to protect their product and give players "surprise" so they can "drum up sales" for the next release.

    They need to think "outside the box" like the original development team did when designing F2P about their problems on the Forums like you said. One that addresses your concerns (and probably others) while allowing their Public Relations team the time they need to communicate with us. Currently the weekend seems to be the biggest culprit of hoax threads (which being the weekend, this could be one of them). And I have "fallen into the trap," if so.
    Almost no one pays forum moderators. It would eat up no resources or money to appoint some people with clean track records as moderators.

    Not a hoax account. I've been here for years. but the fact that we can't tell the difference anymore says a lot about the state of the forum.

    I moderated forums for a long time (not here, and not volunteering). With even a small amount of moderating, things get back to normal real quick.

  13. #13
    Community Member Nonesuch2008's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity, which do you think is worse?

    A new account basically created to instigate issues or promote an agenda? Or a long-term alternate account that only sees the light in order to make trouble which wouldn't be wise to do on the main account?
    "When asked if the developers hate the players, as they make so many challenging jumping puzzles, their response was that they have what they consider a “… normal amount of contempt for the players.” This is good. A dungeon master should always nurse a healthy contempt for his or her players."

  14. #14
    Community Member simo0208's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonesuch2008 View Post
    Just out of curiosity, which do you think is worse?

    A new account basically created to instigate issues or promote an agenda? Or a long-term alternate account that only sees the light in order to make trouble which wouldn't be wise to do on the main account?


    I wouldnt know. I have one account and even link my main. I took about 5 years off if you see a huge gap. But if you pull up the archive data of my character back when myddo existed, you can see it there too. I’ve had one infraction since joining in 2010 where I called out the devs.

    Also if you look at my post history, very little of it is inflammatory and the part that admittedly is is directed at the specific problems laid out in this forum.

    But thanks for the implication. If there were a moderator, they could see that the traffic from my IP (and anything close to it) is just this single account.

    And what “risk” is there for posting at this point? With virtually no moderation, bans/infractions are not happening. Further, I would be pretty surprised if I crossed a boundary into a suspension or ban.

  15. #15
    Community Member Nonesuch2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simo0208 View Post
    I wouldnt know. I have one account and even link my main. I took about 5 years off if you see a huge gap. But if you pull up the archive data of my character back when myddo existed, you can see it there too. I’ve had one infraction since joining in 2010 where I called out the devs.

    Also if you look at my post history, very little of it is inflammatory and the part that admittedly is is directed at the specific problems laid out in this forum.

    But thanks for the implication. If there were a moderator, they could see that the traffic from my IP (and anything close to it) is just this single account.

    And what “risk” is there for posting at this point? With virtually no moderation, bans/infractions are not happening. Further, I would be pretty surprised if I crossed a boundary into a suspension or ban.

    No, you're looking for a fight where one does not exist. I was not implicating you in particular, that was not my intent. My feeling is that one-off accounts used to 'stir the pot' are pretty recognizable & can be avoided, and they generally are not sustainable over time. The other kind are worse in my opinion because they give the false impression of being a part of the mainstream of forum activity.
    "When asked if the developers hate the players, as they make so many challenging jumping puzzles, their response was that they have what they consider a “… normal amount of contempt for the players.” This is good. A dungeon master should always nurse a healthy contempt for his or her players."

  16. #16
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Here is a thread/poll in the similar vein.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...57#post6102257

    I have known Alimar in game (he's an officer in my guild) and hes a super nice and mature guy. He isn't looking to stir the pot or case trouble.

    He is honestly looking to protect the game he loves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonesuch2008 View Post
    No, you're looking for a fight where one does not exist. I was not implicating you in particular, that was not my intent. My feeling is that one-off accounts used to 'stir the pot' are pretty recognizable & can be avoided, and they generally are not sustainable over time. The other kind are worse in my opinion because they give the false impression of being a part of the mainstream of forum activity.
    hm, hard to say. If those long-term socks are not excessive, one could even argue let the guy post his legitimate concerns, even though it is annoying and pretty lame to use such an approach. What we are witnessing now is really a coordinated attack. The throw away accounts are the lesser problem, they are easily identified and removed just for the use of profanity and insults.

    But then you have that other special account that acts a bit more cautious while dominating the whole forum. I am not sure if it is the same guy, but certainly these accounts work together in a coordinated way. I am certain this special account is fabricated though, just look at the language. It combines elaborate vocabulary with an abysmal, at times childlike grammar and spelling. It alternates between identifying as a frustrated endgame player (r10/melee stuff) and a newbie frustrated by the power gap. Clearly a construed persona.

    This is way more disrupting than the funny little insult accounts. You are right, you can easily ignore these posts. Personally, I found them even somewhat amusing - and I have to admit, not always completely off mark. My concerns only started when this whole forum became dominated by the guy/guys. It is now a mostly useless place where almost every thread will be derailed. And frankly, it is quite offputting for the game as a whole. I agree with OP, my DDO experience is certainly soured by SSG´s inability to maintain a somewhat sane forum. This is of cause not rational. But I can´t help it. Being part of something where madmen run wild just isn´t fun for me, and to even imagine you run across people like these in game gives me the creeps. I mean, you come across all types in online games, but i really prefer not knowing about their less than desirable personalities. Believe it or not, in game, I really like people getting along and enjoying each others company, even though I act quite antagonistic around here at times.

    PS: while writing this little "confession", I realized just how sick and tired I am of this place. Guess I just stay away from the forum. Have fun with this trainwreck.
    Last edited by Algreg; 06-04-2018 at 05:30 AM.

  18. #18
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simo0208 View Post
    Exactly my point. I get brought down to that level quite easily.

    And for the record, my accusations are in response to those accounts... not that it excuses the behavior. Active moderation would nip all that in the bud.
    It wouldn't nip.that in the bud because Turbine/SSG has a long history of moderating only one side and leaving abusive and trollish posts up when they're abusing/trolling someone who is criticizing Turbine's actions or policies.
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  19. #19
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    We have been dealing with an issue with a particularly persistent person who likes to create multiple accounts to troll the forums in recent weeks. Otherwise, I am open to hearing from the community as to what they want to see moderation-wise. We have generally tried to adjust moderation based not just on our needs, but on the desires of the overall community, so when I've heard that we have been a bit too draconian, I've loosened up on it, and when I hear that we are too lenient, we can crack down a bit.

    In regard to inconsistency, it's something you hear on just about every forum. We do try to be consistent, but don't get into rules lawyers debate. Context and meaning are one of the more difficult things to parse, but are also critical to the job of moderation. Just because someone uses the same words as someone who was moderated does not mean we're being inconsistent. It depends on how those words were used, what else was said in the moderated post, what the intention was, etc.

    I often hear back from people who post something along the lines of, "...Player X is an @##*$#&!!! He hates Reaper." and get called out for "only moderating people who like Reaper" as an example. Obviously that wasn't why the post would have been moderated.

    I am open to wider feedback on what YOU want to see on these forums. While it's unlikely we can make everyone happy, if there is a general tilt in sentiment, I'm open to making an adjustment.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Bronko's Avatar
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    Default Forum Moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by simo0208 View Post
    Petition:

    Please actively moderate the forums. Where just a few months ago this board was not only much less of a cesspool, it was also actually helpful and informative. Now it’s a few users and their “sock” accounts constantly pushing their troll threads to the top. I’m just going to walk away from the forums, but additionally, the lack of moderation here is beginning to sour me on the game product overall. It’s your game, SSG, do something to protect it.
    +1. You have given me a reason to post a reply for the first time in years buddy. The trolling made meaningful discussion pointless on the forums and I only check them for release notes now.

    Having said that, Cordovan has done a remarkable job of moderating the forums imo. The fact that he recognises that there is a "problem" poster and is working on a solution is all I can ask for. The rest of it falls squarely in the lap of the community. I'll probably go back into forum hibernation again after this.
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