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  1. #101
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    probably a daft question, but I assume you use flame blade until you have enough AP's to get killer instinct?

  2. #102
    Community Member Luxmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If you want a melee wolf build, the one I posted can be adapted to Scourge. If you're not LRing out of ranger, then you need to drop either the barb or cleric / FvS splash. If you have Harper, you can invest in INT instead of CHA and take Know the Angles, in which case you can drop Divine Might. Otherwise, take your pick between higher run speed (barb) or higher STR.

    If you want a TWF build, rgr 6 / ftr 6 / <TR class> 8 is my preferred template: tier-5 Tempest + Strike w/No Thought (+1 crit multiplier) + Greater defensive stance (+20% HPs) is ~64 APs, leaving 16 to tweak things as you see fit. Maybe 12 APs Nature's Warrior for Prey on the Weak (+15% helpless damage).

    What's the differences between using SWF (does it still work with wolf?), Throwing, TWF and THF? Are there any change in attack speed, or does the wolf form make you attack at the same speed with all weapons?

    I find splitting with Cleric instead of FVS a bit better, since Cleric uses wisdom just as Druid does. But on the other hand if your going for Divine Might you need Charisma anyways.

  3. #103
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxmus View Post
    What's the differences between using SWF (does it still work with wolf?), Throwing, TWF and THF? Are there any change in attack speed, or does the wolf form make you attack at the same speed with all weapons?
    SSG fixed the TWF/SWF bugs/exploits with wolf form in Update 38. Natural Fighting feats are the only Combat Style feats which work in animal forms. Now your DPS is based on the type of weapon you wield. Most wolf builds use 2H weapons because the 1.5x damage mod carries over into animal form, while 1H weapons only get the usual 1x damage.
    I find splitting with Cleric instead of FVS a bit better, since Cleric uses wisdom just as Druid does. But on the other hand if your going for Divine Might you need Charisma anyways.
    If you splash cleric you're stuck with Divine Might which runs off CHA. If you splash FvS you could use Divine Will instead which runs off WIS. Or you can use the Falconry tree instead if you have it.
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  4. #104
    Community Member Luxmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    SSG fixed the TWF/SWF bugs/exploits with wolf form in Update 38. Natural Fighting feats are the only Combat Style feats which work in animal forms. Now your DPS is based on the type of weapon you wield. Most wolf builds use 2H weapons because the 1.5x damage mod carries over into animal form, while 1H weapons only get the usual 1x damage.

    If you splash cleric you're stuck with Divine Might which runs off CHA. If you splash FvS you could use Divine Will instead which runs off WIS. Or you can use the Falconry tree instead if you have it.
    Ahh yeah, didnt think about Divine Will.

    Are there any difference in attack speed when using THF vs TWF in wolf form?

  5. #105
    Community Member adrian69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxmus View Post
    Ahh yeah, didnt think about Divine Will.

    Are there any difference in attack speed when using THF vs TWF in wolf form?
    There is no using TWF or THF or SWF in wolf form. In Winter Wolf, your Attack speed is 30% +enhancement bonuses (55% with Fatal Harrier+Haste Boost). You receive GBs, up to 30% per 3 natural fighting feats, in Bear Farm. The one caveat that I know of is if you want Single Dagger in VFK, you need to take SWF, unless that was fixed.

  6. #106
    Community Member adrian69's Avatar
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    Default Want to try something different.

    Tested the VFK single dagger last night with SWF. But if SWF isn't needed for the +20 MP, let me know.

    Is there a better split option for heroics? Went 12 FvS for the +3 damage and either heal/blade barrier, as well as Divine Will. I realize cleric could potentially be more useful, but I DM doesn't match up to Wisdom, if I stay Wisdom. Open for suggestions. Thought about 8/6 fvs/6 monk

    A few questions:
    1. I ran 5 18 druid /1 fgt or fvs/1 barbarian through heroics for racials. I felt it always started out strong and waned around 15 and didn't get any better by 22 as far as I could tell. Anyone who has ran this able to tell me if it does well at cap?
    2. I've thought about pure wolf w/ Falconry. Think I came up with something that was 35 Warrior, 23 VFK, 15 Falconry, 6 Protector. How does the builds fare in epics or at cap?
    3. Is it better to stick with hybrid wolf splits for max DPS? Such as Silvanus 8/6 cleric/6 barb?
    4. Should I just mess w/ all of these ideas until I figure what is what?



    New Build
    12/8 Favored Soul/Druid
    Lawful Neutral Aasimar


    Level Order

    1. Druid . . . . . 6. Druid. . . . . 11. Favored Soul . 16. Favored Soul
    2. Druid . . . . . 7. Druid. . . . . 12. Favored Soul . 17. Favored Soul
    3. Druid . . . . . 8. Druid. . . . . 13. Favored Soul . 18. Favored Soul
    4. Druid . . . . . 9. Favored Soul. .14. Favored Soul. .19. Favored Soul
    5. Druid . . . . .10. Favored Soul. .15. Favored Soul. .20. Favored Soul



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . 17. . . .+8. . . .4: STR
    Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+8. . . .8: STR
    Constitution. . 16. . . .+8. . . 12: STR
    Intelligence. . 10. . . .+8. . . 16: STR
    Wisdom. . . . . 15. . . .+8. . . 20: STR
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+8. . . 24: STR
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR


    Skills
    . . . . . D .D. D .D. D .D. D .D. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F
    . . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 2 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 22
    Heal. . . 2 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 21
    Hide. . . 1 .1. . .1. . .1. . .1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. 11
    UMD . . . 2 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
    Spot. . . . .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
    Balance . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .16 .5. 5 .5. 5 .5. 5 .6. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4
    Max . . .16 .5. 5 .5. 5 .5. 6 .6. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
    .3. . . . : Power Attack
    .6. . . . : Cleave
    .9. . . . : Great Cleave
    12. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
    15. . . . : Natural Fighting
    18. . . . : Natural Fighting
    21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic . : Quicken Spell
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . : Epic Reflexes
    28 Destiny: Mass Frog
    29 Destiny: Dire Charge
    30 Epic . : Past Life: Rogue
    30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane

    .1 Aasimar: Bond of the Fallen

    .2 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
    .5 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Bear
    .8 Druid. : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf

    10 FavSoul: Knowledge of Battle
    15 FavSoul: Stout of Heart

    13 FavSoul: Energy Absorption: Cold
    18 FavSoul: Energy Absorption: Electricity

    .9 Deity. : Follower of: The Blood of Vol
    14 Deity. : The Blood is The Life


    Spells

    Favored Soul
    1. Divine Favor (9), Nightshield (9), <Any>, <Any>
    2. Cure Moderate Wounds (12), Lesser Restoration (13), Soundburst (15), Resist Energy (17)
    3. Cure Serious Wounds (14), Magic Circle Against Evil (15), Mass Aid (17), Blindness (19)
    4. Cure Critical Wounds (16), Divine Power (17), <Any>
    5. Divine Punishment (18), Greater Command (19)
    6. Heal (20)

    Druid
    1. Ram's Might (1), Magic Fang (1), Takedown (2), Pass Without Trace (4), Merfolk's Blessing (7)
    2. Align Fang (3), Fog Cloud (3), Gust of Wind (4), Flaming Sphere (6)
    3. Baiting Bite (5), Sleet Storm (5), Spiderskin (6), Quench (8)
    4. Freedom of Movement (7), Cure Serious Wounds (7), Harrowing Pack (8)


    Enhancements (80+12 AP)

    Vistani Knife Fighter (41 AP)
    • Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Knife Master
      1. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
      2. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Haste Boost III
      3. Vistani Knife Training, Fan of Knives, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades
      4. Vistani Knife Training, Celerity, Mist Stalker, Single Dagger
      5. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Blessed Blades, Vendetta

    Nature's Warrior (26 AP)
    • Natural Adept, Nature's Senses
      1. Extra Wild Empathy II, Beastial Nature II
      2. Flight III, Improved Dodge III, Ghost Wolf
      3. Fight III, Prey on the Weak II, Ghost Wolf Pack
      4. Fatal Harrier III, Ferocity III

    Aasimar (13 AP)
    • Stronger Bonds, Strength, Stronger Bonds II, Strength, Stronger Bonds III
      1. (none)
      2. Divine Purpose, Divine Resolve: Strength II
      3. Divine Charge III

    War Soul (6 AP)
    • Smite Foe: Melee
      1. Divine Might III, Righteous Weapons

    Nature's Protector (6 AP)
    • Nature's Protector, Nature's Defense
      1. Enchanted Defense III, Fey's Blessing I


    Destiny (23 of 24 AP)

    Legendary Dreadnought
    1. Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Strength
    2. Imp. Power Attack, Strength
    3. Critical Damage III, Constitution
    4. (none)
    5. Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
    6. Master's Blitz

    Twists of Fate (35 fate points)
    1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
    2. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
    3. Lithe (Tier 2 Shadowdancer)
    4. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
    5. Primal Scream (Tier 1 Fury)

  7. #107
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    The aasimar bond tooltips says they do not work with druid forms though?

    And why are you taking SWF and perfect 2WF? I thought those style feats do not work in animal form at all?

    I dont get the Vistani thing either. The main appeal of druid melee is being able to how OP natural fighting is as you get massive attack speed with 2H weapons. Daggers are 1H, and SWF/2WF doesnt work in animal form.

    And yea, in general, melee balance is awful near the ends of heroics. Spellpower is a % modifier so you can boost spell damage to ridiculous levels...all the lame +w modifiers for melee are flat damage that never scales to any significant degree, and melee power in heroics simply isnt enough. When mobs have 3k hp in a level 19 quest, you would need something like 1k consistent DPS (not reliant on action boosts or lucky crits) to kill them quickly, at least quick enough that the casters in your party dont get tired waiting for you.
    Last edited by Question2005; 12-22-2018 at 11:55 PM.

  8. #108
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    Vistani and Wolf work really well because your attack speed is high and you can get very high doublestrike. Combine with helpless on champs you eat them fast.

    Two handers are also really good, especially if you have SoS/ESoS. Vistani does require a heavy investment in the tree, but fortunately it's a really rad tree. So if want to spend more in Druid trees and/or Bird Man, two handers work really well.

    I find Monk and Rogue have strong synergy with Wolf. Nothing wrong with Fighter either. Barbarian is obviously strong as well. The most fun was back when Crazy Strikes were crazy. That was too short lived.

    I'm going to try out Wizard/EK with Wolf. Seems like it could be pretty good in heroics because of innate high attack speed.

    edit: Another big part of Vistani Wolf is the Sky Pirate's Dagger. It's a pretty ridiculous weapon starting at level 4. This thing takes you to 20. Flotsam or Barovian for undead.
    Last edited by GramercyRiff; 01-13-2019 at 10:53 PM.

  9. #109
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    3 druid 12 Arti 5 Druid fleshy with construct essence feats x2 at level 15

    25 AP RM (Reconstruct SLA for 25 SP, kinetic charge/discharge cleave slow, 20 shield AC, armor 50% AC)
    NW 31 GFTK + Shrike + usuals
    VKF 24 Crit/multiplier/20MP/doublestrike or AT Lightning SLAs

    Can use single dagger here, and still get a 20 shield AC, and shrike gives infinite mana for reconstruct SLA, or go THF, and swap out VKF for other stuff, and still have shield AC + extra armor AC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    When mobs have 3k hp in a level 19 quest, you would need something like 1k consistent DPS ... to kill them quickly
    Or a caster kensai.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 01-15-2019 at 02:56 AM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by GramercyRiff View Post
    Vistani and Wolf work really well because your attack speed is high and you can get very high doublestrike. Combine with helpless on champs you eat them fast.

    Two handers are also really good, especially if you have SoS/ESoS. Vistani does require a heavy investment in the tree, but fortunately it's a really rad tree. So if want to spend more in Druid trees and/or Bird Man, two handers work really well.

    I find Monk and Rogue have strong synergy with Wolf. Nothing wrong with Fighter either. Barbarian is obviously strong as well. The most fun was back when Crazy Strikes were crazy. That was too short lived.

    I'm going to try out Wizard/EK with Wolf. Seems like it could be pretty good in heroics because of innate high attack speed.

    edit: Another big part of Vistani Wolf is the Sky Pirate's Dagger. It's a pretty ridiculous weapon starting at level 4. This thing takes you to 20. Flotsam or Barovian for undead.
    You can get standing 89 doublestrike with 99 for 10 seconds out of ever 45 wielding a two hander without any investment in vistani. I'd go 2 hander route for a dog build all day long.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    The aasimar bond tooltips says they do not work with druid forms though?

    And why are you taking SWF and perfect 2WF? I thought those style feats do not work in animal form at all?

    I dont get the Vistani thing either. The main appeal of druid melee is being able to how OP natural fighting is as you get massive attack speed with 2H weapons. Daggers are 1H, and SWF/2WF doesnt work in animal form.

    And yea, in general, melee balance is awful near the ends of heroics. Spellpower is a % modifier so you can boost spell damage to ridiculous levels...all the lame +w modifiers for melee are flat damage that never scales to any significant degree, and melee power in heroics simply isnt enough. When mobs have 3k hp in a level 19 quest, you would need something like 1k consistent DPS (not reliant on action boosts or lucky crits) to kill them quickly, at least quick enough that the casters in your party dont get tired waiting for you.
    In heroics, casters will always clear trash better than any melee build. A good melee DPS build will kill bosses faster than a caster. That's especially true in newer content where devs inflated boss hitpoints.

    Perfect two weapon fighting is improperly named. It's really just a 5% bonus to doublestrike. You can take it without having taken any other two weapon fighting feats, and it doesn't require that you have two weapons in your hand. They could have called it "improved doublestrike" and it would have made more sense. If you're swinging a weapon, take PTWF as there's likely no better destiny feat at 26/28.

    The first Aasimir bond (the one you get by default) works in dog form. The one that requires the 16 AP investment does not. So you can use your healing hands ability and get the small stat boost, but you won't be able to get vulnerable damage or the hp/prr/mrr bonus in animal form.

    Vistani may be beneficial if someone has a Pain as it stacks vulnerability. Take SWF as a feat just to unlock "Single Dagger" for the 20 melee power, and pick up Celerity for 5% doublestrike and Deadly Blades for +1 W as well as centered while wielding daggers. That opens up monk stances (with a monk splash) that allow additional doublestrike or +1 mult on crits on a 19-20 or additional dodge/dodge cap. You also grab haste boost which pushes your attack speed even higher.

    I still go 2 hander myself, however, but it's an alternative.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zretch View Post
    You can get standing 89 doublestrike with 99 for 10 seconds out of ever 45 wielding a two hander without any investment in vistani. I'd go 2 hander route for a dog build all day long.
    that's cool. two hander wolf is great i agree.

  13. #113
    Community Member Seljuck's Avatar
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    Default 10barb/8drd/2rog

    What do you think about that split ? 10barb/8drd/2rog

    I'm preparing my main char to another life, want to go Iconic this time, probably shadarkai (for Iconic PL and Barb PL), but still want to be a wolf. Also, i'm plannig to stay a bit on epic/reaper content, and want to be useful.

    It will be 2hf, light armored wolf. Got a bunch of PL, tomes etc. toon is completionist.

    Any thoughts?
    >>Officer of the Polish Guild: GildiaDDOpl<<>>Cannith<<
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  14. #114
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seljuck View Post
    10barb/8drd/2rog
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life_Feats#Dominant_class

    Barb 9 / druid 9 / rogue 2 would get you level 5 spells while still granting a barb PL. It's part of why the <monk|rogue> 2 / druid 9 / <HTR class> 9 template was popular back in the day, since druid is at the bottom of the dominant class list. You also needed druid 9 to take the Natural Fighting feats back then, but that's no longer a pre-req.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  15. #115
    Community Member Sturus's Avatar
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    Does the monks extra attack speed work like add to the wolk's + 30%? And does the monk get the extra dice with handwraps in wolf form? thanks for the help

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