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  1. #1
    Self-Appointed Coin Lord of the Seas ForgettableNPC's Avatar
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    Default Current Max Dodge Cap

    As far as I'm aware, the current max dodge cap adds up to 63% (Or 64% if you want to keep remembering to sneak for one second every ten seconds to keep your Measure the Foe stack up from Assassin tree, but that does not have good quarterstaff synergy spread across multiple trees and I refuse to run it. Also it's super tedious)

    Exclusive to the Halfling Rogue/Fighter/Monk

    25% Base
    3% T2 Halfling - Nimble Reaction
    3% T2 Fighter Kensei - Ascetic Training: Agility
    3% T3 Fighter Kensei - Athletic Mastery (Requires Dodge, Mobility)
    3% T2 Ninja Spy - Agility
    3% T3 Henshin Mystic - Embrace the Void
    2% Core 3 Thief Acrobat - Tumbler (Requires Rogue level 6)
    2% Core 4 Thief Acrobat - Kip Up (Requires Rogue level 12)
    5% T5 Thief Acrobat - Spinning Staff Wall
    8% Grandmaster Ocean Stance (Requires taking Adept and Master of Forms while leveling up)
    4% Legendary Feat - Scion of the Astral Plane (You can also take Scion of the Plane of Air, but why would you do that when you can stay Centered at the same time and get 8% Doublestrike)
    2% Guild Amenity - Fencing Master

    My current setup is Halfling 13 Rogue/4 Fighter/3 Monk.
    I don't know, thought it'd be interesting to share, for hilarity's sake.
    Go nuts.

    Action Point Spread:
    Thief Acrobat - 36 Points
    Henshin Mystic - 13 Points
    Ninja Spy - 8 Points
    Kensei - 14 Points
    Halfling - 8 Points

    Remaining 1 point can be spent as necessary. Maybe if you had Racial Points you could spent it in Vault from Thief Acrobat. It's like Abundant Step, but with Quarterstaves!

    Note: I limited myself to sticking to 60% Dodge because I really wanted Vault and 3 ranks in Shadow Dodge, which gave +1 Dexterity and +1% Dodge per rank for 2 points each, so I cut out on Ninja Spy entirely. I'm already gimp enough with the penalty I gave myself to the PRR, I needed more Dexterity to keep my damage up :P.
    Just a random, forgettable NPC doing things an NPC does
    Things that NPCs do include, but are not limited to:

    Having a gold goblet over my head to indicate availability of a quest
    Having a catchphrase that never really catches on
    Having various rewards that are generally not worth the trouble
    Wandering around randomly
    Giving out obvious information if it wasn't obvious enough
    Repeating the same lines over and over again
    Repeating the same lines over and over again

  2. #2
    Community Member Symbiont's Avatar
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    In terms of calculating the absolute highest sustainable dodge cap, you have almost all the essentials. The class split acquires the most efficient allocation of dodge-increasing abilities in tandem, but you are forgetting a few things; the most major being an 8-Piece LGS Escalation set - this would grant +12% maximum dodge if you were to completely disregard your gear to incorporate it. On top of this, investing at least 41 points into Grim Barricade and running reaper would grant another 3% dodge cap. This would bring the total to a whopping 79% standing dodge.

    EDIT:
    Celerity (Dodge and Maximum Dodge) +1%
    Twilight's Cloak (Dodge and Maximum Dodge) +1%
    Twilight's Cloak (4-Piece set) +1%
    = 82% standing dodge

    You'd might as well say "screw it" and take Shadow Veil from Ninja Spy (with enough racial APs) for even more incorporeal miss chance
    Last edited by Symbiont; 03-17-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member kanordog's Avatar
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    I ran with a 58% shadar-kai version with cleave/great cleave/sweeping strikes using shadow veil over the dodge. 59% with a single filigree.
    It is great fun, you can stand in the middle of crowd looking the feedback "dodge dodge incorporeal dodge incorporeal" until you get bored but in EE he got chewed up in seconds. Unfortunately You will still need high PRR and they also wiped off 21 melee power so even the dps is significantly lower now.
    I'll be still using this build to get two monk PL and PDK pl's.
    Last edited by kanordog; 03-17-2018 at 01:29 AM.


  4. #4
    Self-Appointed Coin Lord of the Seas ForgettableNPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symbiont View Post
    In terms of calculating the absolute highest sustainable dodge cap, you have almost all the essentials. The class split acquires the most efficient allocation of dodge-increasing abilities in tandem, but you are forgetting a few things; the most major being an 8-Piece LGS Escalation set - this would grant +12% maximum dodge if you were to completely disregard your gear to incorporate it. On top of this, investing at least 41 points into Grim Barricade and running reaper would grant another 3% dodge cap. This would bring the total to a whopping 79% standing dodge.

    You'd might as well say "screw it" and take Shadow Veil from Ninja Spy (with enough racial APs) for even more incorporeal miss chance
    Wait LGS gives maximum dodge? Hell yeah, in that case I retract my statement.

    Also Sentient Filigrees might also provide another 3% or so.

    And I don't take the Shadow Veil, I just use Shadow Form from Shadowdancer instead.
    Just a random, forgettable NPC doing things an NPC does
    Things that NPCs do include, but are not limited to:

    Having a gold goblet over my head to indicate availability of a quest
    Having a catchphrase that never really catches on
    Having various rewards that are generally not worth the trouble
    Wandering around randomly
    Giving out obvious information if it wasn't obvious enough
    Repeating the same lines over and over again
    Repeating the same lines over and over again

  5. #5
    Self-Appointed Coin Lord of the Seas ForgettableNPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanordog View Post
    I ran with a 58% shadar-kai version with cleave/great cleave/sweeping strikes using shadow veil over the dodge. 59% with a single filigree.
    It is great fun, you can stand in the middle of crowd looking the feedback "dodge dodge incorporeal dodge incorporeal" until you get bored but in EE he got chewed up in seconds. Unfortunately You will still need high PRR and they also wiped off 21 melee power so even the dps is significantly lower now.
    I'll be still using this build to get two monk PL and PDK pl's.
    Yeah that happens to me a lot too, only having 54 PRR and getting chewed up in about 4-5 hits in EE (Varies per quest)
    Upside is you can dodge any physical attack for 20 seconds with Improved Uncanny Dodge.

    I found Wind Through the Trees is a nice Epic Destiny Feat to have, along with Elusive Target, tripping a non-boss opponent without a save, and you don't need the Perfect TWF as much for the doublestrike in my opinion, when you can have Perfect THF for better glancing blow damage instead (When using staves of course)

    I'm currently running Shadowdancer, which to my understanding will get a significant buff in Melee Power, from what I've heard through the grapevine, giving +36 Melee Power more than what it can give now, so that might make up for the melee power loss from Henshin Mystic too, given how they were talking about nerfing the +10 MP from each Henshin Core.
    Just a random, forgettable NPC doing things an NPC does
    Things that NPCs do include, but are not limited to:

    Having a gold goblet over my head to indicate availability of a quest
    Having a catchphrase that never really catches on
    Having various rewards that are generally not worth the trouble
    Wandering around randomly
    Giving out obvious information if it wasn't obvious enough
    Repeating the same lines over and over again
    Repeating the same lines over and over again

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForgettableNPC View Post
    3% T2 Fighter Kensei - Ascetic Training: Agility
    3% T2 Ninja Spy - Agility
    These two don't stack. I just saved you 3 APs.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    These two don't stack. I just saved you 3 APs.
    Are you sure?
    I did not test myself BUT the Wiki stated it will stack.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Dodge_Bonus


    Fighter Kensei

    Ascetic Training (Tier 2, Multi-selector): Agility: +1/+2/+3 to dodge cap, Concentration, Reflex Saves.
    NOTE: Stacks with Ninja Spy(Mnk): Agility!

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    It definitely didn't used to stack, but maybe that changed after the monk pass? Okay, might need to test that at some point.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  9. #9
    Self-Appointed Coin Lord of the Seas ForgettableNPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    It definitely didn't used to stack, but maybe that changed after the monk pass? Okay, might need to test that at some point.
    I tested it on my current life.

    It does stack. I think under old Ninja Spy tree it definitely didn't stack, though.
    Just a random, forgettable NPC doing things an NPC does
    Things that NPCs do include, but are not limited to:

    Having a gold goblet over my head to indicate availability of a quest
    Having a catchphrase that never really catches on
    Having various rewards that are generally not worth the trouble
    Wandering around randomly
    Giving out obvious information if it wasn't obvious enough
    Repeating the same lines over and over again
    Repeating the same lines over and over again

  10. #10
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Sorry about the thread necro, but I think that now you'd actually be best off for a dodge build doing halfling 18 monk/2 fighter and skipping the rogue. Here's why:

    Dodge cap:

    25 base
    8 Grandmaster of Oceans
    3 Kensei Agility
    3 Ninja Spy Agility
    3 Halfling Nimble Reaction
    3 Embrace the Void
    2 Airship
    ---
    47 standing dodge cap
    15 Cauldron of Flame
    ---
    62

    So, additionally you could (realistically) get:

    3 LGS set (2 items, escalation/escalation/escalation)
    4 sentient filligree (1 celerity, Twilight's Cloak 4-piece, Zephyr 3-piece)
    4 Scion of the Ethereal Plane or Air
    3 Grim Barricade
    --
    76 persistent dodge

    I think that's the best you can do for a (realistic) persistent dodge.

    Well . . . you could get an additional 2 if you dump the Ninja Spy and go for Meditation of War instead, for a total of 78. You'd need to spend 32 points in Henshin, 31 points in Shintao, 8 points in Kensei, and 8 points in halfling, for a total of 79 points, so you could even do it without any racial points. If you went absolutely psychotic and did an 8-piece LGS dodge set, that'd be another 6, for a total of 84% dodge.

    However, there's another way you can go with this, instead. If you do a rogue/ranger/druid instead, you CAN get up to 6 abilities that give big bonus dodge that ignores dodge cap:

    20 seconds/120 seconds cooldown Improved Uncanny Dodge (Rogue 8) 50% dodge 2 minute cooldown
    18 seconds/90 second cooldown Elaborate Parry (Tier 4 Tempest) Dexterity Modifier
    20 seconds/60 second cooldown Mist Stalker V (Tier 5 Vistani Knife Fighter) 20% dodge
    30 seconds/90 second cooldown Flight (Tier 2 Nature's Warrior) 20% dodge
    12 seconds/60 second cooldown Primal Travel (Core 3 Nature's Avatar) 50% dodge
    15 seconds/120 second cooldown Meld Into Darkness (Tier 3 Shadowdancer) 100% dodge

    So, if you're careful about how you chain them together, you can get 100% uptime on SOME kind of Big Dodge Bonus.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 12-21-2018 at 09:08 PM.

  11. #11
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    Funny thing about stacking dodge that high...as you get closer to 100%, mathematically you're only limited by the chance that something one-shots you. So your gameplay becomes pretty binary....kicking butt kicking butt kicking butt DEAD

  12. #12
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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  13. #13
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    So much I could say, but... Ah well. Will just stick to adding info to posts.

    15 Cauldron of Flame
    Can't quite remember as it's been a while, but I "think" this requires a staff in hand and only whilst the Cauldron is active. So this limitation needs to be taken into account.

    4 sentient filligree (1 celerity, Twilight's Cloak 4-piece, Zephyr 3-piece)
    Agree with this, but I favour and suggest Zephyr 5 piece, as it grants Knockdown immunity. But each to their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Funny thing about stacking dodge that high...as you get closer to 100%, mathematically you're only limited by the chance that something one-shots you. So your gameplay becomes pretty binary....kicking butt kicking butt kicking butt DEAD
    Actually, most high numbered "Standing" (Without boosted Dodge) Dodge toons typically have high PRR and AC too, so it's not quite binary unless you're talking R10, in which case it's binary for everyone bar ranged and tanks. But your Dodge can help survive longer in most cases as a dps compared to the rest in high difficulty runs.

    Then there's the issue of enemies that attack in a wide angle. Your normal high difficulty (R10) toons (everyone) will die from the swipes. Whilst your Dodge toon can remain in and continue the dps most of the time (certain bosses and champions can bypass Dodge). Much more survivable. But insidiously harder to build for.

    ---

    Anyway, the current (41.1) max Dodge cap is higher than the numbers presented here. But the catch to getting that level of Dodge cap is, you have a hard time getting the appropriate amount of Dodge to make use of it. As well as giving up much more other defence at the same time. So typically it will be a few less of the actual Cap. But it's still immensely fun to play and certainly viable.

    J1NG
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    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    Anyway, the current (41.1) max Dodge cap is higher than the numbers presented here. But the catch to getting that level of Dodge cap is, you have a hard time getting the appropriate amount of Dodge to make use of it. As well as giving up much more other defence at the same time. So typically it will be a few less of the actual Cap. But it's still immensely fun to play and certainly viable.
    Unless there are abilities that boost dodge cap but don't actually SAY they do in the description, no, it isn't. (I wouldn't rule this out of being true, of course.) There aren't any items that raise your dodge cap other than the legendary greensteel sets. The best racial boosts to dodge are either Gnome/Deep Gnome or Halfling, and they all give +3. The only class-based bonus to dodge cap that hasn't been covered is from Bard and since it's an 18 core it locks you out of too many other sources of dodge cap bonus to be a contender for maximum cap.

    Otherwise there are no:

    Items
    Item sets
    Enhancements
    Epic Destinies
    Reaper Enhancements
    Racial enhancements
    Class abilities
    Bard songs
    Cleric domains
    Action Boosts

    or anything else that I've been able to find that raises and SAYS it raises your dodge cap.

  15. #15
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Your LGS bonus is set at 3. When the maximum is 8 if you were to go all in. That is the missing amounts I am referring to for Dodge Cap increase.

    But to obtain that, you'd sacrifice too many useful item slots that would help provide the actual Dodge Bonus itself so you can actually make use of that increased cap. Therefore, functionally, it is better to go with less Dodge Cap and gain more Dodge by not maximising your Dodge Cap to the absolute that is possible.

    J1NG
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  16. #16
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's a pity the LGS items are so mediocre, otherwise you might be able to do some kinda interesting things. Well, I mean, if you really want to Shroud for the rest of your life.

    I think our best bet of seeing some interesting Dodge combos is to agitate for Epic Destiny updates that do things like make the 25% dodge from A Scattering of Petals ignore dodge cap or similar. Building a "dodge tank" type of thing should have more than one EXTREMELY narrow and focused option to it.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 12-21-2018 at 10:40 PM.

  17. #17
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    It is at that. Not going to dispute that in the slightest.

    Only found the max out from porting to Lamannia, otherwise I TOTALLY would not bother considering the time needed as you have rightly pointed out.

    But, numbers is numbers, and so I had to point out your numbers were not quite the max possible as per the thread "Max" Dodge Cap. And even if you did go max (I've tried ), because you'll lose out on Dodge Bonus sources by slotting in LGS items instead to increase the cap, it's entirely not worth going to the "absolute" max since you can't make use of it all.

    As for variations. There are plenty, but all require investment into LGS. And many would not bother unfortunately, the cost of those Immortal Hearts... *sobs*

    J1NG

    :: edit ::

    Variations using LGS for any build "right now". I totally am behind any change to something like Petal giving Dodge Cap increase as well.
    Last edited by J1NG; 12-21-2018 at 11:02 PM. Reason: To clarify on a point
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  18. #18
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Sample dodge rotation:

    Here's a sample dodge boost rotation to maintain 100% uptime:

    0 Meld into Darkness (off CD at 120)
    15 Improved Uncanny Dodge (off CD at 135)
    35 Primal Travel (off CD at 95)
    47 Elaborate Parry (off CD at 137)
    65 Flight (off CD at 155)
    95 Mist Stalker (off CD at 155)
    115 Primal Travel (off CD at 175)
    127 Meld into Darkness (off CD at 247)
    142 Improved Uncanny Dodge (off CD at 262)
    162 Mist Stalker (off CD at 222)
    182 Elaborate Parry (off CD at 272)
    200 Flight (off CD at 290)
    230 Mist Stalker (off CD at 290)
    250 Primal Travel (off CD at 310)
    262 Meld into Darkness

    So, at this point, 262 seconds in, we've had 100% uptime of dodge boosts that ignore cap for *over 4 minutes straight* The lowest boost is 20% dodge. The hypothetical best dodge cap on the character that could have this combo (rogue/ranger/druid) would be:

    25 base
    3 race (halfling or gnome)
    3 ranger tempest
    2 fencing master
    4 legendary feat
    3 LGS set
    4 sentient
    3 grim barricade
    --
    47

    So, at all times you'd have a 67 or better dodge, and for the majority of the time (assuming a good dex for Elaborate Parry) you'd be running an 85+ dodge.

    If they made it so that Scattering of Petals ignored dodge cap you could probably ditch both Flight and Primal Travel (although the timing might be tight) and have something like this:

    Monk/Ranger/Rogue

    25 base
    3 race
    3 Henshin Mystic
    3 Tempest
    3 Ninja Spy
    2 fencing master
    4 legendary feat
    3 LGS set
    4 sentient
    3 grim barricade
    --
    53

    So your lowest dodge would be a 73.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 12-21-2018 at 11:35 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    Sample dodge rotation:

    Here's a sample dodge boost rotation to maintain 100% uptime:

    0 Meld into Darkness (off CD at 120)
    15 Improved Uncanny Dodge (off CD at 135)
    35 Primal Travel (off CD at 95)
    47 Elaborate Parry (off CD at 137)
    65 Flight (off CD at 155)
    95 Mist Stalker (off CD at 155)
    115 Primal Travel (off CD at 175)
    127 Meld into Darkness (off CD at 247)
    142 Improved Uncanny Dodge (off CD at 262)
    162 Mist Stalker (off CD at 222)
    182 Elaborate Parry (off CD at 272)
    200 Flight (off CD at 290)
    230 Mist Stalker (off CD at 290)
    250 Primal Travel (off CD at 310)
    262 Meld into Darkness

    So, at this point, 262 seconds in, we've had 100% uptime of dodge boosts that ignore cap for *over 4 minutes straight* The lowest boost is 20% dodge. The hypothetical best dodge cap on the character that could have this combo (rogue/ranger/druid) would be:

    25 base
    3 race (halfling or gnome)
    3 ranger tempest
    2 fencing master
    4 legendary feat
    3 LGS set
    4 sentient
    3 grim barricade
    --
    47.
    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    So, at all times you'd have a 67 or better dodge, and for the majority of the time (assuming a good dex for Elaborate Parry) you'd be running an 85+ dodge.
    67-70 Dodge at all times with 85+ dodge the majority of the time, coupled with 225+PRR is one more reason why heavy and medium armor has been made obsolete. The majority are playing in cloth and light armor because it's the META hence the need for Armor Up 2.0! If your not a tank don't bother wearing heavy armor.

  20. #20
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zites View Post
    67-70 Dodge at all times with 85+ dodge the majority of the time, coupled with 225+PRR is one more reason why heavy and medium armor has been made obsolete.
    You have NO idea what you're talking about. Firstly, did you SEE how SPECIFIC this build is? High dodge is nice, but no matter how much you stack it you're STILL going to get hit and if you don't have PRR you are going to get SQUISHED. Heck, J1NG was talking about just that issue earlier. It also puts a hard cap of 50 on your MRR to play like this, which means that casters are going to tear you up no matter what you do. For crying out loud, the high end calculations assume that you're RUNNING IN PRIMAL AVATAR. Do you SEE a lot of people RUNNING IN PRIMAL AVATAR?! Or ANY people?! EVER?!

    This isn't "the meta". It's a single-path, EXTREMELY fringe build idea that's fun to play around with but ultimately probably not worth it.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 01-02-2019 at 03:32 AM.

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